Taylor Swift Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 We're desperate for it, which is why anyone who buys us must be thinking long-term success and return on investment and willing to lose quite a bit of money in the next year or two. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Gotta get a fans' consortium sorted out, go Barca/Real style now because that's the only way this club becomes relatively self-sufficient in the short-run. Isn't the problem that people want an owner that will be able to put money into the club (i.e not Ashley or Freddy), wouldn't a fans' consortium do just the opposite? We wouldn't be able to plug the club with money if needed, which it probably would. I don't see the parachute payment and the money from player sales being enough to stablise us. Yeah, I know and I agree. The hypothetical Real/Barca scenario would be more beneficial in the long-run. Even if we are condemned to the Championship for a couple of years, if we can become financially stable and viable, then promotion into the Premiership will mean that we can actually spend money too because of our fanbase. We're not like other teams who need someone to shoulder their spending sprees. The infrastructure at the club is still very strong. We've got a short-run financial problem. If this can be solved, then a Real/Barca style ownership is possible. It will happen one day. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brummie Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Gotta get a fans' consortium sorted out, go Barca/Real style now because that's the only way this club becomes relatively self-sufficient in the short-run. Isn't the problem that people want an owner that will be able to put money into the club (i.e not Ashley or Freddy), wouldn't a fans' consortium do just the opposite? We wouldn't be able to plug the club with money if needed, which it probably would. I don't see the parachute payment and the money from player sales being enough to stablise us. Yeah, I know and I agree. The hypothetical Real/Barca scenario would be more beneficial in the long-run. Even if we are condemned to the Championship for a couple of years, if we can become financially stable and viable, then promotion into the Premiership will mean that we can actually spend money too because of our fanbase. We're not like other teams who need someone to shoulder their spending sprees. The infrastructure at the club is still very strong. We've got a short-run financial problem. If this can be solved, then a Real/Barca style ownership is possible. The Barca model is fine, if you're a club with the money printing ability of Barca. The fan ownership model is an ideal, and it is hard to pick at the principles behind it, it would be a beacon for the rst of football in many ways. But, you;d still be competing against clubs bankrolled by rich owners. 10k average extra punters through the door over your competitors makes little difference these days. That's why football is intrinsically fucked. Manchester City, 250m transfer budgets, buying everything on the planet capable of standing up, etc etc etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Gotta get a fans' consortium sorted out, go Barca/Real style now because that's the only way this club becomes relatively self-sufficient in the short-run. Isn't the problem that people want an owner that will be able to put money into the club (i.e not Ashley or Freddy), wouldn't a fans' consortium do just the opposite? We wouldn't be able to plug the club with money if needed, which it probably would. I don't see the parachute payment and the money from player sales being enough to stablise us. Yeah, I know and I agree. The hypothetical Real/Barca scenario would be more beneficial in the long-run. Even if we are condemned to the Championship for a couple of years, if we can become financially stable and viable, then promotion into the Premiership will mean that we can actually spend money too because of our fanbase. We're not like other teams who need someone to shoulder their spending sprees. The infrastructure at the club is still very strong. We've got a short-run financial problem. If this can be solved, then a Real/Barca style ownership is possible. The Barca model is fine, if you're a club with the money printing ability of Barca. The fan ownership model is an ideal, and it is hard to pick at the principles behind it, it would be a beacon for the rst of football in many ways. But, you;d still be competing against clubs bankrolled by rich owners. 10k average extra punters through the door over your competitors makes little difference these days. That's why football is intrinsically f***ed. Manchester City, 250m transfer budgets, buying everything on the planet capable of standing up, etc etc etc. football isn't fucked. football as a competition is however i can see a renaissance of localism coming. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brummie Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 football isn't fucked. football as a competition is however i can see a renaissance of localism coming. Nah. English football is about as local as McDonalds or Visa, and it is never coming back, unfortunately. How many industries can you see extremely rich people investing massive chunks of money only to find that someone else considerably richer than them has washed up, prepared to invest even more than you can, and thereby blow a massive chunk in your plans. The whole thing now is about as much a sporting event as Britain's Got Talent, and concepts like a Barca style membership scheme, though incredibly noble, just will not work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 football isn't f***ed. football as a competition is however i can see a renaissance of localism coming. Nah. English football is about as local as McDonalds or Visa, and it is never coming back, unfortunately. How many industries can you see extremely rich people investing massive chunks of money only to find that someone else considerably richer than them has washed up, prepared to invest even more than you can, and thereby blow a massive chunk in your plans. The whole thing now is about as much a sporting event as Britain's Got Talent, and concepts like a Barca style membership scheme, though incredibly noble, just will not work. it may just be people i know but more are going to non league...theres a group from work (nufc and safc) who go to hartlepool now and again. i think people are pissed off with the top being cemented the way it is. (it's also part of a wider philosophical thing.....allotments are hard to come by as people try to get back to some roots and tents are flying off the shelves not only because of the economy there is a localness and return to roots afoot.........i think and hope football may have it's own return to its roots and localness) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keefaz Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Gotta get a fans' consortium sorted out, go Barca/Real style now because that's the only way this club becomes relatively self-sufficient in the short-run. Isn't the problem that people want an owner that will be able to put money into the club (i.e not Ashley or Freddy), wouldn't a fans' consortium do just the opposite? We wouldn't be able to plug the club with money if needed, which it probably would. I don't see the parachute payment and the money from player sales being enough to stablise us. Yeah, I know and I agree. The hypothetical Real/Barca scenario would be more beneficial in the long-run. Even if we are condemned to the Championship for a couple of years, if we can become financially stable and viable, then promotion into the Premiership will mean that we can actually spend money too because of our fanbase. We're not like other teams who need someone to shoulder their spending sprees. The infrastructure at the club is still very strong. We've got a short-run financial problem. If this can be solved, then a Real/Barca style ownership is possible. The Barca model is fine, if you're a club with the money printing ability of Barca. The fan ownership model is an ideal, and it is hard to pick at the principles behind it, it would be a beacon for the rst of football in many ways. But, you;d still be competing against clubs bankrolled by rich owners. 10k average extra punters through the door over your competitors makes little difference these days. That's why football is intrinsically fucked. Manchester City, 250m transfer budgets, buying everything on the planet capable of standing up, etc etc etc. Honestly, what's the point? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Gotta get a fans' consortium sorted out, go Barca/Real style now because that's the only way this club becomes relatively self-sufficient in the short-run. Isn't the problem that people want an owner that will be able to put money into the club (i.e not Ashley or Freddy), wouldn't a fans' consortium do just the opposite? We wouldn't be able to plug the club with money if needed, which it probably would. I don't see the parachute payment and the money from player sales being enough to stablise us. Yeah, I know and I agree. The hypothetical Real/Barca scenario would be more beneficial in the long-run. Even if we are condemned to the Championship for a couple of years, if we can become financially stable and viable, then promotion into the Premiership will mean that we can actually spend money too because of our fanbase. We're not like other teams who need someone to shoulder their spending sprees. The infrastructure at the club is still very strong. We've got a short-run financial problem. If this can be solved, then a Real/Barca style ownership is possible. The Barca model is fine, if you're a club with the money printing ability of Barca. The fan ownership model is an ideal, and it is hard to pick at the principles behind it, it would be a beacon for the rst of football in many ways. But, you;d still be competing against clubs bankrolled by rich owners. 10k average extra punters through the door over your competitors makes little difference these days. That's why football is intrinsically f***ed. Manchester City, 250m transfer budgets, buying everything on the planet capable of standing up, etc etc etc. Honestly, what's the point? footy or an existensial interjection ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keefaz Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Bit of both. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Bit of both. camus-esque Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 If the takeover isn't sorted and settled, with manager and whatnot, by July 1st - we'll be down there for a long time. I know the Championship is a bit topsy turvy in that teams can do shit one year and mint the next, but we have a shite year this coming season, it could seriously damage us. And if we've got a threadbare, makeshift, shit squad with rushed decisions - we'll struggle badly next season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Swift Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 football isn't fucked. football as a competition is however i can see a renaissance of localism coming. Nah. English football is about as local as McDonalds or Visa, and it is never coming back, unfortunately. How many industries can you see extremely rich people investing massive chunks of money only to find that someone else considerably richer than them has washed up, prepared to invest even more than you can, and thereby blow a massive chunk in your plans. The whole thing now is about as much a sporting event as Britain's Got Talent, and concepts like a Barca style membership scheme, though incredibly noble, just will not work. That's assuming we've reached an equilibrium of the footballing world. I don't see foreign owners pouring their money into English clubs forever. There will be a way, even if it's difficult, for fans to get things done. Maybe disillusionment will lead a formation of new clubs with clear and written principles (I'm thinking FC United and AFC Wimbledon - who are actually only one promotion away from the football league!), or these rich owners will leave. I think this is just a phase - maybe it'll last for ten or twenty years, but it'll change. I do think, in the end, the best way for a club to be run is by its fans using Barca's model (although Barca's a special circumstance because of its political significance). Anyone investing in football looking for financial returns will always be disappointed. Man Utd's holding company continues to lose money year-in year-out even when they're winning Premiership titles, competing for the CL and raising ticket prices. Their debt's continually rising and will affect their spending in a few seasons' time. I see a lot of clubs ending in the fan model, eventually. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brummie Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 it may just be people i know but more are going to non league...theres a group from work (nufc and safc) who go to hartlepool now and again. i think people are pissed off with the top being cemented the way it is. (it's also part of a wider philosophical thing.....allotments are hard to come by as people try to get back to some roots and tents are flying off the shelves not only because of the economy there is a localness and return to roots afoot.........i think and hope football may have it's own return to its roots and localness) I think football (ie top flight football) will have to undergo a very real crisis if it is ever to return to its local roots. When you hear stuff like that Game 39 proposal, it is really flaunted in our faces that we're not the people who matter any more, it is the mass audiences in the Far East who make the tv rights so valuable. So valuable that the league wanted to introduce an extra match which would, at a stroke, destroy the validity of our league being based on every club playing every other club twice - the last vestige of the "level playing field" gone in the name of money. As a supporter, I don't particularly feel the benefits of this being the richest league in the world. My season ticket still costs me a lot of money, I'm watching the same four teams win pretty much everything, even breaking into (for one or two seasons only) that top four is seen as an achievement of the size of Burton Albion winning the FA Cup. Talking of which, the FA cup, in the new Wembley, and yesterday we have 25,000 fans of both sides getting tickets, meaning 40k for stuffed shirts from the FA and corporate sponsors. The entire game is wrong, wrong, wrong from top to bottom, and ideas like following the Barca line of membership (ie great ideas based on noble morals) are fucked from the start The entire game is drowning in a sea of wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brummie Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Has anyone got any of those funny pics of cats with LOLZ I AM EATING UR COMPUTER!!!11!! and what not that they can post? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Great post, Brummie. Absolutely appalled at that statistic re: the FA Cup final. I wasn't aware of that. Was nearly sick reading that; fucking disgraceful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 thats what i mean brummie. i know loads of people now looking to go to aways,people who haven't been to a game in a decade or more, they want away from "sky" football. i posted somewhere earlier that i want my club to be the best in the world but i want to go to oakwell not old trafford. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElDiablo Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Has anyone got any of those funny pics of cats with LOLZ I AM EATING UR COMPUTER!!!11!! and what not that they can post? http://www.newcastle-online.org/nufcforum/index.php/topic,54635.30.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlin Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 it may just be people i know but more are going to non league...theres a group from work (nufc and safc) who go to hartlepool now and again. i think people are pissed off with the top being cemented the way it is. (it's also part of a wider philosophical thing.....allotments are hard to come by as people try to get back to some roots and tents are flying off the shelves not only because of the economy there is a localness and return to roots afoot.........i think and hope football may have it's own return to its roots and localness) I think football (ie top flight football) will have to undergo a very real crisis if it is ever to return to its local roots. When you hear stuff like that Game 39 proposal, it is really flaunted in our faces that we're not the people who matter any more, it is the mass audiences in the Far East who make the tv rights so valuable. So valuable that the league wanted to introduce an extra match which would, at a stroke, destroy the validity of our league being based on every club playing every other club twice - the last vestige of the "level playing field" gone in the name of money. As a supporter, I don't particularly feel the benefits of this being the richest league in the world. My season ticket still costs me a lot of money, I'm watching the same four teams win pretty much everything, even breaking into (for one or two seasons only) that top four is seen as an achievement of the size of Burton Albion winning the FA Cup. Talking of which, the FA cup, in the new Wembley, and yesterday we have 25,000 fans of both sides getting tickets, meaning 40k for stuffed shirts from the FA and corporate sponsors. The entire game is wrong, wrong, wrong from top to bottom, and ideas like following the Barca line of membership (ie great ideas based on noble morals) are f***ed from the start The entire game is drowning in a sea of wrong. A very good post, Brummie, with which I agree. I can see quite a number of fans of former so-called 'big' clubs doing exactly what Madras said that he & his mates are doing - going to see smaller clubs in their area because(in a similar way to voters not bothering in elections), they see that the results over a season are pretty much cut & dried in the Prem. The cost is also becoming prohibitive in these difficult times. In addition to all the points you make, I also believe that there is far more corruption in the game than people generally are prepared to believe ; the amount of big money and media influence is now so important to the administrators at the top that nobody with any sense would rule out jiggery-pokery, and it certainly happens in World Cups.. This is not to say it hasn't always,because it certainly HAS, and I had that confirmed by a senior former coach of a major NE side(No names, no pack-drill..!) - however, the money sloshing around these days is much greater and therefore, so are the stakes.... For me, the best thing to have happened to the English game over the past couple of years was Burnley's fairytale season which ended with them gaining promotion to the Prem ; its 33 years since they were in the Top league(we played them in the FA Semi-final at Hillsborough in 1974), and for such a small club, its a really great achievement , although they will probably not be there long - their population is probably less than that of Darlington and its surrounds at 90,000 and that is declining... Just to put that into perspective, I bet nobody on this board could ever imagine Darlo being in a higher league than NUFC - but that is what Burnley have achieved. The only hope on the horizon is that the Credit crunch problems force changes in the game - but that would mean real hardship, esp in the UK, for ordinary people before such a scenario came into being. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
toontownman Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 Funny thing is those five options seem like viable ones, worst still acceptable ones, at the rate we are going administration is the best we can hope for, we will be lucky to be in existance come the three years option. If we dont get a manager and backer (owner) in place within the next three weeks we will can kiss goodbye to premier league dreams. It matters nothing if we appoint Shearer this week if we have to find a new owner, the only godsend will be if we have the Milner/N"Zog/Given fee to spend to tie us over because there are no guarentees the new owner (if it doesnt take 3 months) will back the manager with what he needs, regardless we have already lost time on everyone else in the championship. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 Bit of both. camus-esque Sartre. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 Gotta get a fans' consortium sorted out, go Barca/Real style now because that's the only way this club becomes relatively self-sufficient in the short-run. Isn't the problem that people want an owner that will be able to put money into the club (i.e not Ashley or Freddy), wouldn't a fans' consortium do just the opposite? We wouldn't be able to plug the club with money if needed, which it probably would. I don't see the parachute payment and the money from player sales being enough to stablise us. Yeah, I know and I agree. The hypothetical Real/Barca scenario would be more beneficial in the long-run. Even if we are condemned to the Championship for a couple of years, if we can become financially stable and viable, then promotion into the Premiership will mean that we can actually spend money too because of our fanbase. We're not like other teams who need someone to shoulder their spending sprees. The infrastructure at the club is still very strong. We've got a short-run financial problem. If this can be solved, then a Real/Barca style ownership is possible. The Barca model is fine, if you're a club with the money printing ability of Barca. The fan ownership model is an ideal, and it is hard to pick at the principles behind it, it would be a beacon for the rst of football in many ways. But, you;d still be competing against clubs bankrolled by rich owners. 10k average extra punters through the door over your competitors makes little difference these days. That's why football is intrinsically fucked. Manchester City, 250m transfer budgets, buying everything on the planet capable of standing up, etc etc etc. Honestly, what's the point? All things that average people had emotional connections with are being broken by a corporate - playboy mentality. Somehow and at some point we need to take the game back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 it may just be people i know but more are going to non league...theres a group from work (nufc and safc) who go to hartlepool now and again. i think people are pissed off with the top being cemented the way it is. (it's also part of a wider philosophical thing.....allotments are hard to come by as people try to get back to some roots and tents are flying off the shelves not only because of the economy there is a localness and return to roots afoot.........i think and hope football may have it's own return to its roots and localness) I think football (ie top flight football) will have to undergo a very real crisis if it is ever to return to its local roots. When you hear stuff like that Game 39 proposal, it is really flaunted in our faces that we're not the people who matter any more, it is the mass audiences in the Far East who make the tv rights so valuable. So valuable that the league wanted to introduce an extra match which would, at a stroke, destroy the validity of our league being based on every club playing every other club twice - the last vestige of the "level playing field" gone in the name of money. As a supporter, I don't particularly feel the benefits of this being the richest league in the world. My season ticket still costs me a lot of money, I'm watching the same four teams win pretty much everything, even breaking into (for one or two seasons only) that top four is seen as an achievement of the size of Burton Albion winning the FA Cup. Talking of which, the FA cup, in the new Wembley, and yesterday we have 25,000 fans of both sides getting tickets, meaning 40k for stuffed shirts from the FA and corporate sponsors. The entire game is wrong, wrong, wrong from top to bottom, and ideas like following the Barca line of membership (ie great ideas based on noble morals) are fucked from the start The entire game is drowning in a sea of wrong. It doesn't even matter if you are a well run club (I know we aren't), it is almost impossible for even Everton and Villa (very well run) to compete. Personally I'd like to see a limit on loans, transfer budget caps (50M), squad size (Liv have 62). The PL and the CL are no longer competitions worthy of the name. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dev Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 Just to be fair though I think we need to be loud and clear that the reason it's going to get very bad has nothing to do with the corporatisation of football, and everything to do with our club being run by buffoons for years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 Just to be fair though I think we need to be loud and clear that the reason it's going to get very bad has nothing to do with the corporatisation of football, and everything to do with our club being run by buffoons for years. There is that. However the upwardly spiraling wage costs (74m per year) is partly due to our attempt to compete with clubs with vast tranches of ongoing wealth transfer. Money that has primarily come into the game through corporate and big business buyout of football, which was correctly identified in the 90's as a strong vehicle for company messages. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 Bit of both. camus-esque Sartre. i know but camus was also famed for his love of football. decent keeper aswell by all accounts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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