The College Dropout Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Taking Scholes to the Euros He can barely walk half the time. He's been immense since returning. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 We were worse with Scholes at his peak than with Lampard/Gerrard. Improved when he was moved to the left and didn't lose anything when he retired. That's utter shite imo incidentally...the downturn of the England team can be traced back to when Sven felt he had to include Lampard and pushed Scholes out left and into International retirement. Lampard and Gerrard never worked in tandem, at least with Scholes central, we had the 5-1 in Germany to fall back on. Lampard replaced a player he was nowhere near as good as, and also because of his playing style nullified Gerrard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Taking Scholes to the Euros He can barely walk half the time. He's been immense since returning. Immense isn't the word I'd use like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I can't believe anyone wouldn't have Sturridge in their team. No point in Gerrard et al anymore. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ritchie Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Taking Scholes would be like taking Carragher to the World Cup all over again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I can't believe anyone wouldn't have Sturridge in their team. No point in Gerrard et al anymore. This should have been Capello's mantra after the World Cup. Unfortunately despite saying different, he still selected Barry, Terry et al in the team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ameritoon Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 The old guard have failed enough at major competitions. What's the point of doing it again? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gggg Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 We were worse with Scholes at his peak than with Lampard/Gerrard. Improved when he was moved to the left and didn't lose anything when he retired. That's utter shite imo incidentally...the downturn of the England team can be traced back to when Sven felt he had to include Lampard and pushed Scholes out left and into International retirement. Lampard and Gerrard never worked in tandem, at least with Scholes central, we had the 5-1 in Germany to fall back on. Lampard replaced a player he was nowhere near as good as, and also because of his playing style nullified Gerrard. Euro 2004 was the best chance of winning i can remember with Scholes on the left, he had plenty of time before Lampard and Gerrard came along to make an impact and hardly did anything, we got Euro 00 to show for it. He didn't score for something like 30 games by the end. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 We were worse with Scholes at his peak than with Lampard/Gerrard. Improved when he was moved to the left and didn't lose anything when he retired. That's utter s**** imo incidentally...the downturn of the England team can be traced back to when Sven felt he had to include Lampard and pushed Scholes out left and into International retirement. Lampard and Gerrard never worked in tandem, at least with Scholes central, we had the 5-1 in Germany to fall back on. Lampard replaced a player he was nowhere near as good as, and also because of his playing style nullified Gerrard. Euro 2004 was the best chance of winning i can remember with Scholes on the left, he had plenty of time before Lampard and Gerrard came along to make an impact and hardly did anything, we got Euro 00 to show for it. He didn't score for something like 30 games by the end. Erm... Paul Scholes was the least of our problems in Euro 2000. Unlike the others, he has an overall game and can play possession football. The Michael Carrick/Paul Scholes(latter years) type of player isn't valued in British football. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Scholes' goalscoring record pre Sven is very impressive. It was Sven who teamed Scholes and Gerrard on a more permanent basis, after Keegan paired them once in Euro 2000. Scholes was asked to sit deeper to allow Gerrard to get forward more, and when Lampard came into the side he was pushed left with Gerrard asked to sit. It was a disgrace Sven never gave Scholes a chance to play more advanced of Gerrard, like he did Lampard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gggg Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Er, who doesn't value Scholes on his Man U form? If he played like that in an England shirt he would have been. Much like the rest of the England team. Carrick just isn't that good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gggg Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Scholes' goalscoring record pre Sven is very impressive. It was Sven who teamed Scholes and Gerrard on a more permanent basis, after Keegan paired them once in Euro 2000. Scholes was asked to sit deeper to allow Gerrard to get forward more, and when Lampard came into the side he was pushed left with Gerrard asked to sit. It was a disgrace Sven never gave Scholes a chance to play more advanced of Gerrard, like he did Lampard. I remember it being the other way round with Gerrard playing the DM. Anyway at World Cup 02 it was Scholes alongside Nicky Butt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Er, who doesn't value Scholes on his Man U form? If he played like that in an England shirt he would have been. Much like the rest of the England team. Carrick just isn't that good. I've explained why you didn't see him in his Manchester United form post Keegan.. before Sven he weas allowed to play more forward and his goals tally pre Eriksson shows that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Scholes' goalscoring record pre Sven is very impressive. It was Sven who teamed Scholes and Gerrard on a more permanent basis, after Keegan paired them once in Euro 2000. Scholes was asked to sit deeper to allow Gerrard to get forward more, and when Lampard came into the side he was pushed left with Gerrard asked to sit. It was a disgrace Sven never gave Scholes a chance to play more advanced of Gerrard, like he did Lampard. I remember it being the other way round with Gerrard playing the DM. Anyway at World Cup 02 it was Scholes alongside Nicky Butt. It was but only down to Gerrard missing it through injury. It wasn't a case of Scholes playing as a DM ,more of him not having the freedom he had under Keegan, and allowing Gerrard to share the attacking midfield play. We saw it work at its best in the 5-1 in Germany. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Under Sven we played a lot of long-ball, and with Scholes being our best passer of the ball, a lot of the time he wasn't able to get on it enough, mainly because of this reason. Scholes also had a good understanding with Shearer when Keegan was manager. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Under Sven we played a lot of long-ball, and with Scholes being our best passer of the ball, a lot of the time he wasn't able to get on it enough, mainly because of this reason. Scholes also had a good understanding with Shearer when Keegan was manager. And under Hoddle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
toontownman Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I detest the guy, but saggy flaps will be the new Venables... except I actually think he could do better. Can't see anyone else even being interviewed. Has Allardyce thrown his name into the hat yet? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I detest the guy, but saggy flaps will be the new Venables... except I actually think he could do better. Can't see anyone else even being interviewed. Has Allardyce thrown his name into the hat yet? He was on SSN today saying he'll cross that bridge if and when he's contacted about it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I detest the guy, but saggy flaps will be the new Venables... except I actually think he could do better. Can't see anyone else even being interviewed. Has Allardyce thrown his name into the hat yet? Sure I heard Coldplay singing his name on Radio 1 this morning. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Er, who doesn't value Scholes on his Man U form? If he played like that in an England shirt he would have been. Much like the rest of the England team. Carrick just isn't that good. Players who just aren't that good are not chosen to start 3 Champion League finals for Manchester United. This is not a John O'Shea "squad player" situation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUICE690 Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Has Allardyce thrown his name into the hat yet? To busy eating chips out of it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gggg Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Er, who doesn't value Scholes on his Man U form? If he played like that in an England shirt he would have been. Much like the rest of the England team. Carrick just isn't that good. Players who just aren't that good are not chosen to start 3 Champion League finals for Manchester United. This is not a John O'Shea "squad player" situation. The best club team of all time had Sebastiano Rossi in goal, an average keeper who never got a single cap but played in 3 Champion League finals. The best International team of all time had a poor keeper in Felix. Not even the very best teams have a top class player in each position and this Man Utd certainly isn't an all time great, even compared to their own teams. Says alot about the standard of football currently that they've been the second best team over the last few years with so many mediocrities like Wes Brown and Anderson. But then Liverpool got to finals a few years ago with a team full of them and Dida played in 3 finals and so on. Loads of players have played in CL finals without being that good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Er, who doesn't value Scholes on his Man U form? If he played like that in an England shirt he would have been. Much like the rest of the England team. Carrick just isn't that good. Players who just aren't that good are not chosen to start 3 Champion League finals for Manchester United. This is not a John O'Shea "squad player" situation. The best club team of all time had Sebastiano Rossi in goal, an average keeper who never got a single cap but played in 3 Champion League finals. The best International team of all time had a poor keeper in Felix. Not even the very best teams have a top class player in each position and this Man Utd certainly isn't an all time great, even compared to their own teams. Says alot about the standard of football currently that they've been the second best team over the last few years with so many mediocrities like Wes Brown and Anderson. But then Liverpool got to finals a few years ago with a team full of them and Dida played in 3 finals and so on. Loads of players have played in CL finals without being that good. He's not a goalkeeper, he plays central midfield. Name the poor central midfielders of those teams. Liverpool didn't win 3 league titles back to back coinciding with the signing of Igor Biscan. We are talking about a team that has won the league 4/5 times out the last 6. They are not carrying many passengers in the first eleven man, let alone in midfield get a grip. Did Wes Brown/O'Shea start in all 3 finals? He's not a great. He doesn't impose himself enough. But he's good enough to start for the English national side. We need more players in Carrick's mould and less of the blockbuster stuff started by Beckham. Players comfortable with short and mid-range passing. Wilshere's a good start. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gggg Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Man City are top of the league with Gareth Barry in central midfield. Chelsea won the double a couple of seasons ago with Mikel in midfield. Kleberson and Karembeu played in world cup winning midfields. It's not limited to goalkeepers. Man Utd could have replaced Carrick and still won those titles without much trouble. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Man City are top of the league with Gareth Barry in central midfield. Chelsea won the double a couple of seasons ago with Mikel in midfield. Kleberson and Karembeu played in world cup winning midfields. It's not limited to goalkeepers. Man Utd could have replaced Carrick and still won those titles without much trouble. Please understand my point. I'm not talking one PL medal, or one CL final, or warming the bench for Brazil. Gareth Barry will be 31 if City win the league. He certainly won't win it 4 times or play in 3 Champions League finals. Michael Carrick has played over 40 games a year for Man United, central midfield, winning leagues and playing Champions League finals. He's better than Gareth Barry but he has less caps. Fergie's no fool. He's had his share of average players and he moves them on or benches them. Carrick's been a regular for 6 years coinciding with there best run in fergie's time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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