Incognito Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 We are debating England as it is the England thread. And Lampard at best has been average for England. We actually weren't, tbf. Nobody is hating on Lampard Nope. One of the best players of the PL era and one of the best England has ever produced. Not a soul here has hated on him. It appears that way now, but the original comment was that Lampard is one of the best players England has ever produced, which he is. In an England shirt he's been very average in major competitions, he's certainly not one of England's best in that respect, although that pool is still pretty small. He is a very good club player but one of the best this country has ever produced? Never in a million years for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettNUFC Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 Has England produced a better goal scoring midfielder than Lampard? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 I don't think many countries have. A substantially better than 1-in-3 record over a decade long period in the Premiership is absurd from a dedicated midfielder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 Was Robert Flappy Hair Charlton not classed as a midfielder? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 Was Robert Flappy Hair Charlton not classed as a midfielder? Yep. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Village Idiot Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 Has England produced a better goal scoring midfielder than Lampard? Hierro got 1 in 3 while playing as holding mid for Spain, Lampard's club record is better though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 Platt scored nearly 1 in 2 for England. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 Lampard's goalscoring stats for Chelsea are amazing, but let us be honest, he buys more tickets to the raffle than anyone else. At international level you have to have more to your game than shooting from 30 yards every 5 minutes. Ok so that was an exaggeration of terms but the point stands . World class midfieders have to be able to take the game by the scruff of the neck and control the game. Pirlo does it at International level, and so did Gascoigne, Hoddle, Bryan Robson , Scholes and even Gerrard has at a very high level though obviously not for some time. Lampard never has for me.And certainly not for England. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 Agree billy (although I never got to watch any of Hoddle, Gazza or Robson) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 Platt scored nearly 1 in 2 for England. He is the one I'd most compare Lampard with style wise, though Platt was a midfield penalty box predator. Phenomenal runs he used to make. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 Agree billy (although I never got to watch any of Hoddle, Gazza or Robson) If you ever get the chance to watch an old game with Hoddle playing, it's well worth it.Never saw a better distributor of the ball either long or short. Robson was different, he was mainly about engine and Gazza kind of combined the two .Proper greats. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beren Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 Continuing Incognito's raffle-based theme, he also won the old Tombola playing for Chelsea in a team built for him and benefited from scoring penalties from fouls on Robben, Hazard, Ballack etc. Not the best English midfielder of his generation let alone ever. Good player in his prime though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 Lampard is or was better than Pirlo like. Sure Pirlo has been a top player but howay man, he can spray the ball around a bit and dictate play (Lampard isn't a bad passer either), but look at Lampard's goals and assists and his general play. He may not be a playmaker ala Pirlo but for Chelsea he has been the fulcrum of their side for over a decade now. He hasn't been great at international level of course but then he's been played left of midfield or alongside the inferior Gerrard far too often. His stats still look good though. Lampard is easily one of the best players we've produced in midfield period never mind the last decade or so. Having said all of that, they couldn't be more different as players mind... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 We are debating England as it is the England thread. And Lampard at best has been average for England. What was Scholes for England? Misused and wasted. I think a succession of managers wanted him to be the goalscoring midfielder ala Lampard when even at Man Utd, despite scoring lots of goals, he was never that kind of ACM. He was more Xavi like. Someone who could play anywhere, someone who could drop deep and pass the ball about or someone who could get involved further forward. For me Scholes is the moest talented all-rounder we've produced since Gazza as an all-round footballer. He really was world-class. In his prime he'd walk into any side I believe, at club or national level. Not quite as good as Xavi but right up there alongside him, competing for that kind of distinction. IMO anyway. Another thing with Scholes and England, managers looked at him, Gerrard and Lampard, as well as Beckham, all top top players, and tried to fit them all in, without things ever truly working. I never rated Sven as highly as others nor his time with England but it speaks volumes that with those 4 we did better under him despite that midfield 4 if you like not exactly being some kind of fit or match. I do recognise that they didn't always play together of course... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 Lampard is or was better than Pirlo like. Sure Pirlo has been a top player but howay man, he can spray the ball around a bit and dictate play (Lampard isn't a bad passer either), but look at Lampard's goals and assists and his general play. He may not be a playmaker ala Pirlo but for Chelsea he has been the fulcrum of their side for over a decade now. He hasn't been great at international level of course but then he's been played left of midfield or alongside the inferior Gerrard far too often. His stats still look good though. Lampard is easily one of the best players we've produced in midfield period never mind the last decade or so. Having said all of that, they couldn't be more different as players mind... He's not better than pirlo. How do you mean sure he "can dictate play"? As in one of the most important things you could do as a footballer? He's a good player but he's not and never has been better than pirlo. His achievements are less than pirlos, both spent ten years as the fulcrum of a team and pirlo has proven it on the international stage, repeatedly. I couldn't care less about personal achievements personally. Heskey has won far more than Shearer... Me, I look at their individual attributes, their individual skill sets, what they can and cannot do, their consistency, their overall abilities and how those very things have helped their team etc. Both are undoubtedly class but to say Pirlo is better because he's more of a playmaker or can spray the ball about better, which are his main attributes, is utter nonsense to be honest. Lampard ticks almost all boxes, goals and creating goals being the name of the game, the obvious ones... RE internationally, Italy has and always will be better than England at that level. Far better coaches, far better at grassroots level etc. and far better educated as players. That;s not taking away from Pirlo but Lampard would excell in any top international side which to be fair he has done somewhat in a poor or limited England side. He's not been Chelsea great of course but he has delivered often enough when it mattered or counted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 HTT knows. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 RE England, under Woy, we appear to be functional, tough to beat and a bit boring. Almost like we were under Sven, but without the so-called golden generaton. We could be and do better but I feel we are doing just about right for where we are at at the moment under him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 I suppose Lampard is better than Xavi as well Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 I suppose Lampard is better than Xavi as well Xavi's the best midfielder I've watched live. So no, I don't think anyone would argue that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 HTT knows. Well, I wouldn't go that far like but Lampard is fucking obvious. I actually used to regard him as somewhat overrated but again, his class is obvious. Pirlo is perhaps easier on the eye and more enjoyable to watch but what is the whole point of football if not scoring and creating goals? There hasn't been many better than Lampard over the last 10 or so years anywhere on this planet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 I suppose Lampard is better than Xavi as well Xavi's the best midfielder I've watched live. So no, I don't think anyone would argue that. Pirlo was better than Xavi until Pep got his hands on him....( although i will admit Xavi has surpassed him now) i think some have forgotten how brilliant Pirlo was 2006 and before. Lampard is not better than him, Pirlo is one of the best players of all time not just this generation. Although Lampard has been great, his ability to find space and score is really above nearly all midfielders and he deserves massive respect for that. But he's not better than Pirlo, Xavi, Scholes etc etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 Lampard is or was better than Pirlo like. Sure Pirlo has been a top player but howay man, he can spray the ball around a bit and dictate play (Lampard isn't a bad passer either), but look at Lampard's goals and assists and his general play. He may not be a playmaker ala Pirlo but for Chelsea he has been the fulcrum of their side for over a decade now. He hasn't been great at international level of course but then he's been played left of midfield or alongside the inferior Gerrard far too often. His stats still look good though. Lampard is easily one of the best players we've produced in midfield period never mind the last decade or so. Having said all of that, they couldn't be more different as players mind... He's not better than pirlo. How do you mean sure he "can dictate play"? As in one of the most important things you could do as a footballer? He's a good player but he's not and never has been better than pirlo. His achievements are less than pirlos, both spent ten years as the fulcrum of a team and pirlo has proven it on the international stage, repeatedly. I couldn't care less about personal achievements personally. Heskey has won far more than Shearer... Me, I look at their individual attributes, their individual skill sets, what they can and cannot do, their consistency, their overall abilities and how those very things have helped their team etc. Both are undoubtedly class but to say Pirlo is better because he's more of a playmaker or can spray the ball about better, which are his main attributes, is utter nonsense to be honest. Lampard ticks almost all boxes, goals and creating goals being the name of the game, the obvious ones... RE internationally, Italy has and always will be better than England at that level. Far better coaches, far better at grassroots level etc. and far better educated as players. That;s not taking away from Pirlo but Lampard would excell in any top international side which to be fair he has done somewhat in a poor or limited England side. He's not been Chelsea great of course but he has delivered often enough when it mattered or counted. I do exactly the same, and still come to the conclusion that Pirlo is a superior footballer, if that's down to coaching is debatable and irrelevant. On pure ability Pirlo is a better player. It's not a case of a play maker being better than a box to box midfielder, I judge it on what I've seen on the pitch. Pirlo can grab the game by the scruff of the neck, which he did most recently against England. That's the mark of a world class player. Don't get me wrong, he's a good footballer, but better than pirlo he ain't. Superior footballer? Have a word man. What can Pirlo do better than Lampard. You mention grabbing a game by the scruff of the neck, what by playing well against England? Lampard has grabbed many a game by the scruff of the neck by smashing one into the top corner or two to grab his side a win or two. Pirlo is or was a great player, I cannot disagree but to say he was or is superior to Lampard is insane. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 HTT knows. Well, I wouldn't go that far like but Lampard is f***ing obvious. I actually used to regard him as somewhat overrated but again, his class is obvious. Pirlo is perhaps easier on the eye and more enjoyable to watch but what is the whole point of football if not scoring and creating goals? There hasn't been many better than Lampard over the last 10 or so years anywhere on this planet. You can't simplistically boil football down to scoring and creating goals. Makalele was an incredible player, didn't score/create much though. It's not the remit of every player on the pitch. FWIW pirlo both scores and creates goals. I'm not. What are you basing Pirlo on btw, some ability to grab a game by the scruff of the neck?! Technically Lampard ranks very high, he has amazing close control, tehnical ability and he can also play the ball with either foot. Vison wise he will not spot a through ball through the eye of a needle and then succeed in feeding in such a pass, but he can look up and switch play from 50 yards. What he is truly great at though is driving forward from midfield and scoring goals, from long range or inside the box. He's almost like a striker in that sense. He's also good at creating goals and chances for others with his off the ball movement and his runs. People call him fat but the man is an athlete, he runs runs and runs, not like a lunatic ala Scott Parker, but intelligently. 90 + on the clock and he's there still trying to get into the box or into goalscoring positions. He's just a clever footballer. Like I said Pirlo is also great but superior? Howay man Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 Says the "Pirlo superior to Lampard" kid Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 Says the "Pirlo superior to Lampard" kid Pls. I think you'll find many regard Pirlo as one if the finest midfielders of his generation. You are in the minority, not me! I'd think it was pure WUM but it's not Thought you were out... Btw I regard him as one of the best too, but not someone superior to another one of the best in Lampard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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