Frazzle Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 First of all, I don't want my post to come across as an attack because I'm fully behind this idea. I do have some gripes though, as has been said in the last few posts there's the problem with everyone putting in £10. I read donations to the trust will be added together to form 1.5k chunks. As binnsy says, surely this will be a nightmare? Who would be the representative for these chunks? I'd be happy to give £20-£40 to just contribute and wouldn't be bothered about having a say but if not everyone agrees with this it would be a nightmare. Secondly, with regard to the election of presidents. Surely here we'd end up with the crap that goes on at Barca and Real elections? Someone will come along promising to sign David Villa (or whatever) just to get everyone on side? I realise the fans can just ignore this bloke and vote for the most suitable but I reckon most the candidates will want to come up with wild claims to get noticed, just like real politics, all style and no substance. In an ideal world we'd give the manager the money he wants and let him do his thing, otherwise there'll be a lack of stability with trophy signings being forced on managers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cp40 Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Is the ultimate aim to get 70000+ fans putting in £1500 each, or is there an expectation that 2 or 3 parties will donate a lot more? Sorry if that's already been asked. I'd certainly go with the suggestion earlier that we each put £10 in £10 isnt laughable. those who want to go down the 1500 route still can, but those who cant, who still want to contribute, could own part of a share. CP, i think getting loads to put in £10 each will be a nightmare as you'd be canvassing too many peoples opinions when it comes to voting. Ideally think it would be much more workable trying to get 30 people off here all investing £50 each. its open to discussion. but and its a big but, the poll facility on here is a ready made way to canvass opinions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToonTastic Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Is the ultimate aim to get 70000+ fans putting in £1500 each, or is there an expectation that 2 or 3 parties will donate a lot more? Sorry if that's already been asked. I'd certainly go with the suggestion earlier that we each put £10 in £10 isnt laughable. those who want to go down the 1500 route still can, but those who cant, who still want to contribute, could own part of a share. CP, i think getting loads to put in £10 each will be a nightmare as you'd be canvassing too many peoples opinions when it comes to voting. Ideally think it would be much more workable trying to get 30 people off here all investing £50 each. its open to discussion. but and its a big but, the poll facility on here is a ready made way to canvass opinions. Yeah for the one on here it would be pretty easy. All who put money in (whoever collects is open to debate) get access to a section on the board called NUST or whatever. When something has to be decided for NUST like a new chairman, the poll is added to that board and votes are cast, the result of that poll would then be the vote cast by the members of N-O. Simple really. As for the people putting money into NUST I'm not sure how that will work as to people having a say, I'm not sure they would actually get a say or if that vote would just come through NUST somehow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToonTastic Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Secondly, with regard to the election of presidents. Surely here we'd end up with the crap that goes on at Barca and Real elections? Someone will come along promising to sign David Villa (or whatever) just to get everyone on side? I realise the fans can just ignore this bloke and vote for the most suitable but I reckon most the candidates will want to come up with wild claims to get noticed, just like real politics, all style and no substance. In an ideal world we'd give the manager the money he wants and let him do his thing, otherwise there'll be a lack of stability with trophy signings being forced on managers. As has been mentioned before they are all held accountable by the board and NUST members so although they may get appointed down to 1 key point they have to have other key points else the club wouldn't progress and they could be voted off early as can be done at Barca. At the end of the day people who will be going for this job will have lots of experience in football you would hope. The likes of David Dein for arguments sake would never offer this, he is well known to want to build up from youth. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToonTastic Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 If NUST = a NUFC version of http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/fr/thumb/d/df/Ebbsfleet_United_Football_Club.jpg/240px-Ebbsfleet_United_Football_Club.jpg+http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f2/Myfclogo.png = This will not end well. it's not Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Icke - Son of God Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 If NUST = a NUFC version of http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/fr/thumb/d/df/Ebbsfleet_United_Football_Club.jpg/240px-Ebbsfleet_United_Football_Club.jpg+http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f2/Myfclogo.png = This will not end well. Having done a bundle research and writing on the subject of Ebbsfleet & MyFC I can categorically state that this set up is completely different. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaizero Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 If NUST = a NUFC version of http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/fr/thumb/d/df/Ebbsfleet_United_Football_Club.jpg/240px-Ebbsfleet_United_Football_Club.jpg+http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f2/Myfclogo.png = This will not end well. Having done a bundle research and writing on the subject of Ebbsfleet & MyFC I can categorically state that this set up is completely different. People pool money together, vote who gets to run it etc etc. Seems the same tbh (bar voting for who starts and who they should buy). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToonTastic Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 If NUST = a NUFC version of http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/fr/thumb/d/df/Ebbsfleet_United_Football_Club.jpg/240px-Ebbsfleet_United_Football_Club.jpg+http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f2/Myfclogo.png = This will not end well. Having done a bundle research and writing on the subject of Ebbsfleet & MyFC I can categorically state that this set up is completely different. People pool money together, vote who gets to run it etc etc. Seems the same tbh (bar voting for who starts and who they should buy). The vote is only really for the chairman and board members though, the chairman makes all decisions on the club unlike ebbsfleet where the people who bought the club decided everything from ticket prices, players bought and sold, manager etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Icke - Son of God Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 If NUST = a NUFC version of http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/fr/thumb/d/df/Ebbsfleet_United_Football_Club.jpg/240px-Ebbsfleet_United_Football_Club.jpg+http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f2/Myfclogo.png = This will not end well. Having done a bundle research and writing on the subject of Ebbsfleet & MyFC I can categorically state that this set up is completely different. People pool money together, vote who gets to run it etc etc. Seems the same tbh (bar voting for who starts and who they should buy). That's the problem though, it never happened that way. There has been no transparency from those in charge, it's been a vehicle for those who thought the idea up to run a football club using others peoples cash and because of the bad press it generated and the fact Ebbsfleet doesn't have a fanbase they nearly went under when subscriptions were up for renewal. Ebbsfleet is arguably the polar opposite of the fan ownership ethos. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colos Short and Curlies Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 A question if I may: How liquid is the investment? For example lets say I pay in £1,500 and the issue of the new manager comes up. Now (hypothetically) say I really want us to go for Roy Hodgson but the elected president (as is his right) comes out with Shearer being his number one choice. If I wished to withdraw my £1,500 due to me no longer believing in the direction of the board could I do this? Also, have the founders considered what is happen when (and it will) things go wrong and the tide turns against the trust/president? I'll stick my neck on the line and suggest that at least one of the guys pushing this idea would like to be el presidente. Are they prepared for the backlash on their decisions? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToonTastic Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 A question if I may: How liquid is the investment? For example lets say I pay in £1,500 and the issue of the new manager comes up. Now (hypothetically) say I really want us to go for Roy Hodgson but the elected president (as is his right) comes out with Shearer being his number one choice. If I wished to withdraw my £1,500 due to me no longer believing in the direction of the board could I do this? Also, have the founders considered what is happen when (and it will) things go wrong and the tide turns against the trust/president? I'll stick my neck on the line and suggest that at least one of the guys pushing this idea would like to be el presidente. Are they prepared for the backlash on their decisions? As mentioned before if they did go for the Barca model they have to get so many signatures from members asking for the president/chairman to leave. There is then a new election on for the new chairman. To be honest I doubt very much it would be a NUST member in charge, people will want a football man in charge who has a clue what he's doing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Not wanting to speak for them, but I would think the investment couldn't be very liquid at all. I don't see how it would work if you could have people withdrawing their money as easily as that. It would put the club in a very precarious position if any number of investers could ask for their money back at any time, surely? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToonTastic Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Not wanting to speak for them, but I would think the investment couldn't be very liquid at all. I don't see how it would work if you could have people withdrawing their money as easily as that. It would put the club in a very precarious position if any number of investers could ask for their money back at any time, surely? How do other pensionable schemes work ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stephen927 Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_727OBkoI4tw/R8hUS05EDnI/AAAAAAAAEAg/L6Mr3VTmimM/s400/Wake+Up+&+Smell....jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG32 Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 A question if I may: How liquid is the investment? For example lets say I pay in £1,500 and the issue of the new manager comes up. Now (hypothetically) say I really want us to go for Roy Hodgson but the elected president (as is his right) comes out with Shearer being his number one choice. If I wished to withdraw my £1,500 due to me no longer believing in the direction of the board could I do this? Also, have the founders considered what is happen when (and it will) things go wrong and the tide turns against the trust/president? I'll stick my neck on the line and suggest that at least one of the guys pushing this idea would like to be el presidente. Are they prepared for the backlash on their decisions? So you would want your money back after one decsion you didn't agree with went through. Regardless of all other things that might be heading in the right direction. Great. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToonTastic Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 A question if I may: How liquid is the investment? For example lets say I pay in £1,500 and the issue of the new manager comes up. Now (hypothetically) say I really want us to go for Roy Hodgson but the elected president (as is his right) comes out with Shearer being his number one choice. If I wished to withdraw my £1,500 due to me no longer believing in the direction of the board could I do this? Also, have the founders considered what is happen when (and it will) things go wrong and the tide turns against the trust/president? I'll stick my neck on the line and suggest that at least one of the guys pushing this idea would like to be el presidente. Are they prepared for the backlash on their decisions? So you would want your money back after one decsion you didn't agree with went through. Regardless of all other things that might be heading in the right direction. Great. Think he's just giving an example. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
quayside Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 A question if I may: How liquid is the investment? For example lets say I pay in £1,500 and the issue of the new manager comes up. Now (hypothetically) say I really want us to go for Roy Hodgson but the elected president (as is his right) comes out with Shearer being his number one choice. If I wished to withdraw my £1,500 due to me no longer believing in the direction of the board could I do this? Also, have the founders considered what is happen when (and it will) things go wrong and the tide turns against the trust/president? I'll stick my neck on the line and suggest that at least one of the guys pushing this idea would like to be el presidente. Are they prepared for the backlash on their decisions? I would think the liquidity would be the same as any private company .i.e. not very. If you don't like what the company is doing you can try and sell your shares, but it's down to you to find a buyer as there won't be a ready made market. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG32 Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 A question if I may: How liquid is the investment? For example lets say I pay in £1,500 and the issue of the new manager comes up. Now (hypothetically) say I really want us to go for Roy Hodgson but the elected president (as is his right) comes out with Shearer being his number one choice. If I wished to withdraw my £1,500 due to me no longer believing in the direction of the board could I do this? Also, have the founders considered what is happen when (and it will) things go wrong and the tide turns against the trust/president? I'll stick my neck on the line and suggest that at least one of the guys pushing this idea would like to be el presidente. Are they prepared for the backlash on their decisions? So you would want your money back after one decsion you didn't agree with went through. Regardless of all other things that might be heading in the right direction. Great. Think he's just giving an example. Sorry, jumped into it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cp40 Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 A question if I may: How liquid is the investment? For example lets say I pay in £1,500 and the issue of the new manager comes up. Now (hypothetically) say I really want us to go for Roy Hodgson but the elected president (as is his right) comes out with Shearer being his number one choice. If I wished to withdraw my £1,500 due to me no longer believing in the direction of the board could I do this? Also, have the founders considered what is happen when (and it will) things go wrong and the tide turns against the trust/president? I'll stick my neck on the line and suggest that at least one of the guys pushing this idea would like to be el presidente. Are they prepared for the backlash on their decisions? So you would want your money back after one decsion you didn't agree with went through. Regardless of all other things that might be heading in the right direction. Great. Think he's just giving an example. Sorry, jumped into it. it does imply tho, that if you didnt agree with decisions you would to use an anolgy,.. take your ball home. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colos Short and Curlies Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 A question if I may: How liquid is the investment? For example lets say I pay in £1,500 and the issue of the new manager comes up. Now (hypothetically) say I really want us to go for Roy Hodgson but the elected president (as is his right) comes out with Shearer being his number one choice. If I wished to withdraw my £1,500 due to me no longer believing in the direction of the board could I do this? Also, have the founders considered what is happen when (and it will) things go wrong and the tide turns against the trust/president? I'll stick my neck on the line and suggest that at least one of the guys pushing this idea would like to be el presidente. Are they prepared for the backlash on their decisions? I would think the liquidity would be the same as any private company .i.e. not very. If you don't like what the company is doing you can try and sell your shares, but it's down to you to find a buyer as there won't be a ready made market. Thats more what I was trying to get at - would there be a market as such for the shares. This potentially leaves the scheme open to a take over Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Liam Liam O Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 I know there have been reasons given for not doing it, but the last few pages on here show that all cards should have been put on the table by NUST as to how this is going to work at the initial launch. The more people are thinking about this without the benefit of the full facts, the more people seem to be going off the idea. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colos Short and Curlies Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 A question if I may: How liquid is the investment? For example lets say I pay in £1,500 and the issue of the new manager comes up. Now (hypothetically) say I really want us to go for Roy Hodgson but the elected president (as is his right) comes out with Shearer being his number one choice. If I wished to withdraw my £1,500 due to me no longer believing in the direction of the board could I do this? Also, have the founders considered what is happen when (and it will) things go wrong and the tide turns against the trust/president? I'll stick my neck on the line and suggest that at least one of the guys pushing this idea would like to be el presidente. Are they prepared for the backlash on their decisions? So you would want your money back after one decsion you didn't agree with went through. Regardless of all other things that might be heading in the right direction. Great. Think he's just giving an example. Sorry, jumped into it. it does imply tho, that if you didnt agree with decisions you would to use an anolgy,.. take your ball home. That was the point. The manager point was just a one off, as it is likely to come up soon. But a shareholder could completely disagree with a number of key decisions and decide that their cash input leaves them in no better a decision than now (in that they disagree with the direction of the club rightly or wrongly). In that situation I think that there needs to be some mechanism to sell the shares, whether on a closed market or back into the club Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colos Short and Curlies Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 I know there have been reasons given for not doing it, but the last few pages on here show that all cards should have been put on the table by NUST as to how this is going to work at the initial launch. The more people are thinking about this without the benefit of the full facts, the more people seem to be going off the idea. Isn't that the story of NUST from day one though? Any good ideas/actions/decisions have been tarred by poor communication (where have we seen that before??) and a cock handed way of putting information into the supporters domain Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 I think you've got to realise that a democratic approach doesn't mean what you vote for will happen. The fact you had your say is the objective, not the specific outcome. I mean, the Tories are going to win the next election. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colos Short and Curlies Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 I think you've got to realise that a democratic approach doesn't mean what you vote for will happen. The fact you had your say is the objective, not the specific outcome. I mean, the Tories are going to win the next election. Oranges and Apples. If you buy a share in something and don't agree with its direction you should be able to pull out of whatever you've bought into. I don't pay for the right to vote in a General Election so have to take the decision on the chin. Similarly the support for NUFC won't go away because I disagree with the owners direction - otherwise I wouldn't be supporting Ashleys regime at present. Wishing to sell a share in the club because I don't agree with a decision shouldn't be the end of my options, and if I wish to sell then there should be something in place to allow it - whether this is on an open market or back into the club should be the only thing open for debate Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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