Newcastle United Supporters Trust (NUST)

[abcdefg]

Anyone else got the Bob The Builder tune in their head?

[Cronky]

At the moment, it feels like we're being sold a dream, not a concrete plan. We're being told that the people with the real expertise are going to be unveiled in due course, so whilst a number of us are getting quite excited at the moment, the more difficult questions have yet to be answered.

[Taylor Swift]

Will read up on this properly tonight. I'm intruiged though, I guess the main concern is the stability of the money itself and whether there can be any genuine guarantees on it and where it lies. Will probably have questions later.

 

This is my biggest concern.

 

Is there a financial/business plan in place? I suppose you'll require detailed knowledge of the club's finances to answer that so when you have that information, this thing can become a whole lot more serious than it is now because there's no way £80m will be enough.

 

It'll buy the club but what happens after that? Who invests the money for transfers? What happens in the event that the club suffers serious financial losses and has to be sold? Who's the main creditor? What's the voting structure? How long is a 'presidential' term? Will the prez be able to appoint anyone he wants (eg. his younger brother who knows nothing but will sit on the board and collect £100k/year)? There needs to be clear and proper rules in place, almost like a constitution, if you will, for the governance of the club. If NUST don't have this or don't plan on forming them quite soon then this whole idea is ridiculous.

[ToonTastic]

At the moment, it feels like we're being sold a dream, not a concrete plan. We're being told that the people with the real expertise are going to be unveiled in due course, so whilst a number of us are getting quite excited at the moment, the more difficult questions have yet to be answered.

 

Are you one of us getting excited though ? Just interested.

[Guest Brummiemag]

This is a fantastic idea. I need to read more about it, the risks involved etc,  but if this goes ahead and it all seems reasonable I would be very interested in investing something.

 

At the end of the day a football club belongs to its community and its supporters - it should not be owned and controlled by a private individual. 

[ToonTastic]

Will read up on this properly tonight. I'm intruiged though, I guess the main concern is the stability of the money itself and whether there can be any genuine guarantees on it and where it lies. Will probably have questions later.

 

This is my biggest concern.

 

Is there a financial/business plan in place? I suppose you'll require detailed knowledge of the club's finances to answer that so when you have that information, this thing can become a whole lot more serious than it is now because there's no way £80m will be enough.

 

It'll buy the club but what happens after that? Who invests the money for transfers? What happens in the event that the club suffers serious financial losses and has to be sold? Who's the main creditor? What's the voting structure? How long is a 'presidential' term? Will the prez be able to appoint anyone he wants (eg. his younger brother who knows nothing but will sit on the board and collect £100k/year)? There needs to be clear and proper rules in place, almost like a constitution, if you will, for the governance of the club. If NUST don't have this or don't plan on forming them quite soon then this whole idea is ridiculous.

 

All those questions apparently will come clearer over the next 6 weeks as they launch this.

[Cronky]

At the moment, it feels like we're being sold a dream, not a concrete plan. We're being told that the people with the real expertise are going to be unveiled in due course, so whilst a number of us are getting quite excited at the moment, the more difficult questions have yet to be answered.

 

Are you one of us getting excited though ? Just interested.

 

Nope.

[Taylor Swift]

I received an e-mail this morning asking me to invest, as I imagine a lot of people did. Have to admit I'm very sceptical, but thought I'd take a further look. Since they're asking for investment now, is there any sort of detailed business plan available anywhere for investors to look at, detailing the source of funding for the club post acquisition, how they plan to convince Barclays or another bank to put up a new working capital facility, and what security will be offered to obtain funding?

 

There is plenty on the website about the make up of the executive committee, but there doesn't seem to be any detailed financial planning. The Barcelona model works mainly because of the huge income generated, so the club is to an extent not completely reliant on bank funding. NUFC are losing £20m a year at the moment, how will that loss be covered in the first year?

 

There is a full Q and A section on the website in realtion to the proposed buy out.  At the moment we will be asking peple to deposit 10% of their pledged investment into an escrow account which is set up and handled by a respected city centre local legal firm.  If the buy out does not work then the 10% is refundable.  By all means be secptical, ask the questions, read what NUST has to say, and watch the campaign grow over the coming days, the chron, journal etc will feature full page ads, the website will be updated and reflect whats happening, this is the ultimate protest and the best, most organised, professional, clear and transparent way to remove the current regime.

 

Will investors get the 10% deposit that's put into the escrow account back? What % of it will be deducted for administrative fees?

 

I think I'll invest more but only through N-O.

[Taylor Swift]

I don't know if this will piss Dave off but I haven't read the middle part of the thread and I'm wondering about the exact number of people required to make this buyout work.

 

How much is NUST actually looking for from the average joes and how many average joes are they looking for? You say you have people from banks etc. interested so I presume that you're not looking to raise the whole £80m from normal people. So how many people are you looking for? And how many shares do you ultimately see yourself issueing out? 100k shares worth £1500 each?

[Rich]

Think "as many as possible" seems to be the idea, not wanting to speak for Peasepud or NUST. I think they're looking to see how much they can amass from Joe Public to ally with funds from elsewhere.

[Parky]

Whatever happens the clear build up of mass organised support against MA is undeniable and at some point will find a way to oust him. All good.

[binnsy]

Ashley and Llambias may already be rattled,  according to the Chronicle llambias was trying to set up a meeting with NUST an hour after they launched the campaign.

 

NUST have apparently turned down the request as they aren't in a position to discuss it with the club.  I agree that NUST shouldn't be talking until they are in a position to act.

[peasepud]

At the moment, it feels like we're being sold a dream, not a concrete plan. We're being told that the people with the real expertise are going to be unveiled in due course, so whilst a number of us are getting quite excited at the moment, the more difficult questions have yet to be answered.

 

And thats understandable, I would be fully in that camp if we were coming on and saying "sign up, pay us your money" but we're not, at this point in time we've given the overview and allowing it to sink in with people. I know many are now thinking its bollocks because we havent supplied more info yet, thats the PR peoples way of doing things and when it comes down to that then they know a lot more about these things than you and I (unless you are a PR person that is!, Im not though so I go with what they say).

 

Ive raised the concern with the relevant people so maybe they'll speed things up a little.

 

As an aside, to keep you all in the loop we have had contact with Ashley & co via a third party, for now we've politely declined the offer of discussions because we dont want to raise any false hopes with this. It would be daft to go in and start talking takeovers and amounts without being sure of our position.

 

Too many have already done that (Sheard, Moat, etc) we would prefer to sit down only when we can prove that we're serious and that wont be until you've all seen the full details, know who is involved and then been able to give a proper indication of your views.

 

Edit: Just seen Binnsy's post since putting this on, thats the bit I was talking about above.

 

 

[peasepud]

I don't know if this will piss Dave off but I haven't read the middle part of the thread and I'm wondering about the exact number of people required to make this buyout work.

 

How much is NUST actually looking for from the average joes and how many average joes are they looking for? You say you have people from banks etc. interested so I presume that you're not looking to raise the whole £80m from normal people. So how many people are you looking for? And how many shares do you ultimately see yourself issueing out? 100k shares worth £1500 each?

 

Thats a difficult one to answer because we have a few different ways of investing and differing amounts. Theres the £1500+ cash one, £25000+ pension investment, donations etc.

 

On top of that its the bigger investments from big names and businesses which confuses the mix. We have figures in mind, how thats reached is dependant on which ways people want to join it. Technically though the way the scheme runs, its no different to the running of the club if we have 5,000 or 50,000 people involved, each get one vote, each get the same level of return.

[Frazzle]

One little thing that confuses me, which I don't think has been answered, is the limit on investors.  Say for example (just making numbers up here!) 50,000 fans/businesses invest enough to buy the club, once the club is bought can anybody then come along and say 'here's £1500 I want in'?  Could the amount of investors theoretically reach 100,000+?  Because there must be a point when the numbers becoming unworkable?

 

On the other hand it would be a shame if people who can't afford to invest now wouldn't be allowed to stick their cash in at a later date.

[cp40]

One little thing that confuses me, which I don't think has been answered, is the limit on investors.  Say for example (just making numbers up here!) 50,000 fans/businesses invest enough to buy the club, once the club is bought can anybody then come along and say 'here's £1500 I want in'?  Could the amount of investors theoretically reach 100,000+?  Because there must be a point when the numbers becoming unworkable?

 

On the other hand it would be a shame if people who can't afford to invest now wouldn't be allowed to stick their cash in at a later date.

 

totally agree, i cant go a 1500 now but cud next yera maybe. It would also be good if the forum could keep taking donations, and continue to increase its stake.

[peasepud]

One little thing that confuses me, which I don't think has been answered, is the limit on investors.  Say for example (just making numbers up here!) 50,000 fans/businesses invest enough to buy the club, once the club is bought can anybody then come along and say 'here's £1500 I want in'?  Could the amount of investors theoretically reach 100,000+?  Because there must be a point when the numbers becoming unworkable?

 

On the other hand it would be a shame if people who can't afford to invest now wouldn't be allowed to stick their cash in at a later date.

 

This is one for the financial experts but I agree with your logic, we are looking to keep it open and allow people to invest at any time which would go towards the clubs running costs but somewhere there has to be a limit otherwise the amount you're paying out in interest becomes unworkable.

 

These are answers that I would want the financial bods attached to this to come out with but the basic answer is that at this point in time we've not set any time limit on the 2nd phase of the campaign so its envisaged that people will still be able to invest a year or two down the line.

[Guest shellshock]

One little thing that confuses me, which I don't think has been answered, is the limit on investors.  Say for example (just making numbers up here!) 50,000 fans/businesses invest enough to buy the club, once the club is bought can anybody then come along and say 'here's £1500 I want in'?  Could the amount of investors theoretically reach 100,000+?  Because there must be a point when the numbers becoming unworkable?

 

On the other hand it would be a shame if people who can't afford to invest now wouldn't be allowed to stick their cash in at a later date.

 

Good question, cant answer it fully yet im afraid, but the current model being set up in the business plan allows for future investors by creating a waiting list (i have not seen the maximum number of investors, but i dont think its been settled on yet anyway), then if somebody dies, somebody leaves, etc, that position or share certifcate vote goes to the investor who is on top of the waiting list.  The business plan and financial prospectus will clarify that

[NG32]

One little thing that confuses me, which I don't think has been answered, is the limit on investors.  Say for example (just making numbers up here!) 50,000 fans/businesses invest enough to buy the club, once the club is bought can anybody then come along and say 'here's £1500 I want in'?  Could the amount of investors theoretically reach 100,000+?  Because there must be a point when the numbers becoming unworkable?

 

On the other hand it would be a shame if people who can't afford to invest now wouldn't be allowed to stick their cash in at a later date.

 

Good question, cant answer it fully yet im afraid, but the current model being set up in the business plan allows for future investors by creating a waiting list (i have not seen the maximum number of investors, but i dont think its been settled on yet anyway), then if somebody dies, somebody leaves, etc, that position or share certifcate vote goes to the investor who is on top of the waiting list.  The business plan and financial prospectus will clarify that

 

 

Something on a  simliar line,  what if this really takes off.  We get control with fans investing as well as some businesses etc.

 

Later if things are running ok, how would it be managed if another business wants to chuck in a large amount.  Would they jump to the top of the queue?

 

 

[jdckelly]

Ashley and Llambias may already be rattled,  according to the Chronicle llambias was trying to set up a meeting with NUST an hour after they launched the campaign.

 

NUST have apparently turned down the request as they aren't in a position to discuss it with the club.  I agree that NUST shouldn't be talking until they are in a position to act.

on the other hand wheres the harm in a preliminary hearing, the main obstacle i view for the nust is I can't see Ashley wanting to sell to them, they're negotiating position is weak to begin with and possibly offending the current regime by not meeting them isn't a good way to start.

[peasepud]

Ashley and Llambias may already be rattled,  according to the Chronicle llambias was trying to set up a meeting with NUST an hour after they launched the campaign.

 

NUST have apparently turned down the request as they aren't in a position to discuss it with the club.  I agree that NUST shouldn't be talking until they are in a position to act.

on the other hand wheres the harm in a preliminary hearing, the main obstacle i view for the nust is I can't see Ashley wanting to sell to them, they're negotiating position is weak to begin with and possibly offending the current regime by not meeting them isn't a good way to start.

 

No offending has taken place, we've politely declined his offer under the logic of we dont want to waste their time if we cant raise the funds.

 

I think the fact Llambias called an hour after we launched tells you that hes happy to sell.

[jdckelly]

Ashley and Llambias may already be rattled,  according to the Chronicle llambias was trying to set up a meeting with NUST an hour after they launched the campaign.

 

NUST have apparently turned down the request as they aren't in a position to discuss it with the club.  I agree that NUST shouldn't be talking until they are in a position to act.

on the other hand wheres the harm in a preliminary hearing, the main obstacle i view for the nust is I can't see Ashley wanting to sell to them, they're negotiating position is weak to begin with and possibly offending the current regime by not meeting them isn't a good way to start.

 

No offending has taken place, we've politely declined his offer under the logic of we dont want to waste their time if we cant raise the funds.

 

I think the fact Llambias called an hour after we launched tells you that hes happy to sell.

or he's simply curious about it, asking for a meeting to discuss it could also be a way of politely saying not interested in selling, thanks for the interest.

[cp40]

Ashley and Llambias may already be rattled,  according to the Chronicle llambias was trying to set up a meeting with NUST an hour after they launched the campaign.

 

NUST have apparently turned down the request as they aren't in a position to discuss it with the club.  I agree that NUST shouldn't be talking until they are in a position to act.

on the other hand wheres the harm in a preliminary hearing, the main obstacle i view for the nust is I can't see Ashley wanting to sell to them, they're negotiating position is weak to begin with and possibly offending the current regime by not meeting them isn't a good way to start.

 

No offending has taken place, we've politely declined his offer under the logic of we dont want to waste their time if we cant raise the funds.

 

I think the fact Llambias called an hour after we launched tells you that hes happy to sell.

or he's simply curious about it, asking for a meeting to discuss it could also be a way of politely saying not interested in selling, thanks for the interest.

 

 

my suspicion would be he would try and get NUST on board with ashley, just to get thier hands on the investment, then sell the club further down the line anyway.

[Colos Short and Curlies]

Ashley and Llambias may already be rattled,  according to the Chronicle llambias was trying to set up a meeting with NUST an hour after they launched the campaign.

 

NUST have apparently turned down the request as they aren't in a position to discuss it with the club.  I agree that NUST shouldn't be talking until they are in a position to act.

on the other hand wheres the harm in a preliminary hearing, the main obstacle i view for the nust is I can't see Ashley wanting to sell to them, they're negotiating position is weak to begin with and possibly offending the current regime by not meeting them isn't a good way to start.

 

No offending has taken place, we've politely declined his offer under the logic of we dont want to waste their time if we cant raise the funds.

 

I think the fact Llambias called an hour after we launched tells you that hes happy to sell.

or he's simply curious about it, asking for a meeting to discuss it could also be a way of politely saying not interested in selling, thanks for the interest.

 

Or Dezza has lost another bet and has to run naked through the meeting

[peasepud]

or he's simply curious about it, asking for a meeting to discuss it could also be a way of politely saying not interested in selling, thanks for the interest.

 

Then if thats the case he'll no doubt come on SSN and say that, saving us all time in having a meeting. After all hes got a football club to run and we've got a campaign to manage. In seriousness he doesnt have the time to meet up with a group of people who think they can pull the cash together, under his own rules, you need to prove you have the funds before they'll talk to you. We respect that and want to see this all done properly.

 

We've dealt with DL a number of times, he knows where we are and who we are. He knows we're serious and he has access to the same info the rest of you do. I dont believe he will take this as a snub, if anything I reckon this was a test. If we'd accepted then I reckon he would have viewed us as less serious about this.