Mort.

[johnnypd]

it speaks volumes that the club couldn't come up with a coherent outline of the system when asked about it in court. to me this comes directly from Mort, he was the one responsible for instituting the new system so it was down to him to clearly and precisely delineate everyone's responsibilities, where they begin and where they end, and make sure the employees understoof their roles. He obviously failed to do that.

[Guest dover]

Mort - Spiv 3  (from TF).

 

For some the softer, more acceptable face of the Ashley operation but for me and in my opinion as dishonest as the rest. The Freshfields lawyer may have got out at the right time and was not around when the real big s*** hit the fan but he was around when KK and Wise were appointed and he did give evidence to the panel and appears happy for his name to be associated with the “public relations exercises” described to the panel. Public relations? Or organised lying? Mort made it his business to court fanzine lads and on a couple of occasions, along with people from The Mag, nufc.com and others, tf was invited for a pint and some pork scratchings in Shearer’s Bar. Some may yet seek to defend Mort but if the maxim of judging a man by the company he keeps is followed then Mort is damned. He was affable but there were certain questions we asked which he was not comfortable with which have nagged ever since. Why did Mort pass on the question: “what does a successful Newcastle United look like to Mike Ashley?” Mort got more from the publicity from those meetings with fanzines than we ever did. Part of a public relations con? Taken for saps? That’s certainly how I view it and have done for some time. Ever think you’ve been conned? Yes.

 

 

Not as blameless and squeaky clean as we imagined?

 

So in summary,

 

Mort talks to the fans = conman

Lambias doesnt talk to fans = conman

 

 

Cant understand why people think toon fans are never happy.

[dustynrg]

I notice he has been very quiet since he left the club.

So quiet in fact that you'd hardly notice him in the away end at WBA, Palace and Ipswich to name but 3.

 

My own opinion is that he jumped ship because he could foresee what was coming and didn't want to be associated with it.

 

 

 

I would agree with this, he seemed set apart from the dodgy crew to me. Is it really him in with the fans at the away games? If he was in with Ashley I can't see him doing this. I think he got out because he didn't like what he saw.

[Thespence]

I think C.Mort though he was setting up team that would give us what we want but the people HE brought in were fucking wrong.......really wrong.

[UV]

Great plan, s*** implementation.

 

I dunno about great mind, seemed to me thy wanted a mid table side bring young talent on and flogg it.  We would have never acheived anything under these as they would have sold every bit of talent.  We'd have become a feeder club.

 

How long would it have been before fans got pissed off if hey started flogging our young talent regualry, they made a massive assumption that NUFC fans will turn up 50k a week no matter what management do.

 

Wrong

 

Agree completely that this was the real operational plan as opposed to the "exercise in public relations" plan. The sale of the likes of Milner and N'Zogbia show that the build a young squad line was pure bullshit. Just keep the club ticking over while the value of the asset rose as more outside money bought into the game.

 

 

IMO the DoF structure (with a powerful DoF, not the chief scout with a fancy title version) is only a good idea if you're prone to chopping and changing manager every year or so (as those excitable foreigners do) as it gives some semblance of stability within the footballing structure of the club. If the aim is to have a long term manager, then a strong DoF can only be a hindrance to that. There WILL be clashes between the two - it's inevitable - and if the DoF always wins, the manager will eventually leave or get fired.

 

In either system the intention is to have a long term constant presence at the top in charge of transfers to avoid a wasteful merry-go-round of players, however IMO the continental one is a poorer system as it just makes it harder to see who's at fault. If you have a shit DoF, you're typically going to have to go through several managers (who may have been good left to their own devices) before you realise what the root cause of your team underperforming is, ie the poor quality of players brought in by the DoF. It's far easier to just blame the manager for not being able to get the best out of those brilliant Argentinians you bought, after all just look what they did in Spain on this Youtube compilation!

[ohmelads]

it speaks volumes that the club couldn't come up with a coherent outline of the system when asked about it in court. to me this comes directly from Mort, he was the one responsible for instituting the new system so it was down to him to clearly and precisely delineate everyone's responsibilities, where they begin and where they end, and make sure the employees understoof their roles. He obviously failed to do that.

 

spot on. people seem to forget this guy was our chairman, so the buck stopped with him and of course Ashley.

 

comparing any chairman to Llambias is going to show them in a positive light. but let's not forget the seeds of our downfall were sown before he arrived, during Mort's tenure. as chairman of the club Mort held a lot of responsibility for what followed - whether he jumped ship or not.

[ohmelads]

Great plan, s*** implementation.

 

I dunno about great mind, seemed to me thy wanted a mid table side bring young talent on and flogg it.  We would have never acheived anything under these as they would have sold every bit of talent.  We'd have become a feeder club.

 

How long would it have been before fans got pissed off if hey started flogging our young talent regualry, they made a massive assumption that NUFC fans will turn up 50k a week no matter what management do.

 

Wrong

 

I have to agree that with the benefit of hindsight this certainly seems to be the plan Ashley and Mort had in mind.

 

Nurture young stars and sell them at a profit.

 

West Ham produced Lampard, Rio Ferdinand, Joe Cole, Michael Carrick etc yet sold them all early in their careers. It's a model that doesn't really get you anywhere unless you can hang onto those players. I think the sale of Milner and N'Zogbia, our only two young and promising talents, showed our intentions.

[madras]

Great plan, s*** implementation.

 

I dunno about great mind, seemed to me thy wanted a mid table side bring young talent on and flogg it.  We would have never acheived anything under these as they would have sold every bit of talent.  We'd have become a feeder club.

 

How long would it have been before fans got pissed off if hey started flogging our young talent regualry, they made a massive assumption that NUFC fans will turn up 50k a week no matter what management do.

 

Wrong

 

I have to agree that with the benefit of hindsight this certainly seems to be the plan Ashley and Mort had in mind.

 

Nurture young stars and sell them at a profit.

 

West Ham produced Lampard, Rio Ferdinand, Joe Cole, Michael Carrick etc yet sold them all early in their careers. It's a model that doesn't really get you anywhere unless you can hang onto those players. I think the sale of Milner and N'Zogbia, our only two young and promising talents, showed our intentions.

dunno like. from a position of financial stability it's what man utd and arsenal do. progress kids that you can sell at a profit if they don't make the first team squad.(or sell for massivly profits if they do)

[Parky]

Great plan, s*** implementation.

 

I dunno about great mind, seemed to me thy wanted a mid table side bring young talent on and flogg it.  We would have never acheived anything under these as they would have sold every bit of talent.  We'd have become a feeder club.

 

How long would it have been before fans got pissed off if hey started flogging our young talent regualry, they made a massive assumption that NUFC fans will turn up 50k a week no matter what management do.

 

Wrong

 

I have to agree that with the benefit of hindsight this certainly seems to be the plan Ashley and Mort had in mind.

 

Nurture young stars and sell them at a profit.

 

West Ham produced Lampard, Rio Ferdinand, Joe Cole, Michael Carrick etc yet sold them all early in their careers. It's a model that doesn't really get you anywhere unless you can hang onto those players. I think the sale of Milner and N'Zogbia, our only two young and promising talents, showed our intentions.

 

Bet Wise did a fair bit of sqeaking at those meetings whilst brandishing Utube clips....

[Dinho lad]

I remember Dave used to fancy him quite a bit.

[JH]

Mort is the shizz tbh man.

[ohmelads]

dunno like. from a position of financial stability it's what man utd and arsenal do. progress kids that you can sell at a profit if they don't make the first team squad.(or sell for massivly profits if they do)

 

Giggs and Scholes are still at Man Utd, as are Fletcher and O'Shea. Beckham gave the club years of service before leaving after a fallout with the manager and a big offer from the biggest club in the world at the time. Man Utd enjoyed the best years of these players' careers.

 

Of course the youngsters who don't make it such as Frazier Campbell get pedalled to clubs like Sunderland for handy money.

 

Arsenal is another one. Toure may have gone to Man City but he was offered silly money and had given Arsenal years of service. Fabregas is still there, Ashley Cole also left because a mega-rich club came in for him and he too gave Arsenal years of service. Vieira, Ljungberg etc ended up leaving at a profit but they spent their best years at Arsenal. Clichy is still there, while players like Song, Diaby, Van Persie and Denilson are still first team players.

 

Compare that to West Ham who sold all of their stars at a relatively young age and mostly before they even peaked. West Ham didn't get the best years of these players' careers the way Arsenal or Man Utd do, and failed to reinvest the money and build a better team. If you are not big enough to hang onto these players you end up becoming a feeder club for the bigger teams.

 

Dyer, Bramble and Darren Bent all came through at Ipswich but look where they are. Walcott, Wayne Bridge, Gareth Bale, even Alan Shearer came through at Southampton yet look at them now. Many teams have good academies but it does not provide stability on its own.

[Mowen]

dunno like. from a position of financial stability it's what man utd and arsenal do. progress kids that you can sell at a profit if they don't make the first team squad.(or sell for massivly profits if they do)

 

Giggs and Scholes are still at Man Utd, as are Fletcher and O'Shea. Beckham gave the club years of service before leaving after a fallout with the manager and a big offer from the biggest club in the world at the time. Man Utd enjoyed the best years of these players' careers.

 

Of course the youngsters who don't make it such as Frazier Campbell get pedalled to clubs like Sunderland for handy money.

 

Arsenal is another one. Toure may have gone to Man City but he was offered silly money and had given Arsenal years of service. Fabregas is still there, Ashley Cole also left because a mega-rich club came in for him and he too gave Arsenal years of service. Vieira, Ljungberg etc ended up leaving at a profit but they spent their best years at Arsenal. Clichy is still there, while players like Song, Diaby, Van Persie and Denilson are still first team players.

 

Compare that to West Ham who sold all of their stars at a relatively young age and mostly before they even peaked. West Ham didn't get the best years of these players' careers the way Arsenal or Man Utd do, and failed to reinvest the money and build a better team. If you are not big enough to hang onto these players you end up becoming a feeder club for the bigger teams.

 

Dyer, Bramble and Darren Bent all came through at Ipswich but look where they are. Walcott, Wayne Bridge, Gareth Bale, even Alan Shearer came through at Southampton yet look at them now. Many teams have good academies but it does not provide stability on its own.

 

You've basically agreed with madras there though. Bring as many kids through as possible, if they're good enough you can keep them or sell for a huge price and if not peddle them for a decent price. ManU and Arsenal are relentlessly picking up a few million here and there for the likes of Larsson, Eagles and Campbell.

[ohmelads]

You've basically agreed with madras there though. Bring as many kids through as possible, if they're good enough you can keep them or sell for a huge price and if not peddle them for a decent price. ManU and Arsenal are relentlessly picking up a few million here and there for the likes of Larsson, Eagles and Campbell.

 

Well yes and no. He's right that you can make a lot of money from youngsters so I agree about the financial perspective, but from a footballing perspective I questioned where that would get you when you look at teams like West Ham and Southampton who have excellent academies. I also don't believe Man Utd and Arsenal operate their academies primarily with sell-on fees in mind; they operate them to bring through top class youngsters in the knowledge they can keep them. We, on the other hand, would not be able to operate like this. If we got our academy in order I believe we'd be a lot more similar to West Ham and we would have our best kids taken off us by bigger clubs.

 

I think people look at the likes of Gerrard and John Terry and think we could be next, espescially with the Shearer example but then you look at Lampard and Rooney and you realise that even when a top top player comes along, you see very little of it on the pitch and before you know it he's gone. As a fan you're left booing him on his return and just hope the money is reinvested and done so wisely.

 

I think a lot of fans believe we can unearth our own Terry or Gerrard in the future but unless we're among the Chelseas and Man Utd's they will leave and they will leave young.

 

I am all for an Arsenal-style scouting network but I think we have to be a bit more honest about what is achievable. As far as Mort and Ashley were concerned, I think they pushed the idea of a strong academy for purely financial reasons and that is not how Man Utd or Arsenal operate.

[Lotus]

Shirley Mort's role here was to draw contracts that his employer wanted.

 

I never understood some fans appreciation of him anymore than i'm failing to understand any vitriol directed towards him now.

 

He did what he was paid to do.

 

Assuming the rumours that Freshfields weren't paid are baseless, of course!

[Ericz]

I'm merely reiterating the point made by many others before me and that is,

 

"In the commercial world, a Director's duty is to the corporation/company."

 

Only then can the Director be considered a professional one. They don't owe a duty to any of you i.e. fans. Like it or not, football is now a business or a rich man's plaything / trophy. Unfortunately, the world is cruel. Welcome to the real world.

 

That being said, character and personality do play a part. Some people have personality that are so arrogant and reluctant to communicate to anyone. In my perspective, generally, that is something that can never be changed.

 

 

[johnnypd]

mort's remit here was to undertake a 'strategic review' of operations and recommend what changes or systems should be implemented to take the club forward. owing a duty to fans or whatever doesn't come into it. fact is he failed to do his job probably and the consequences of this were felt further down the line.

[Guest firetotheworks]

The truth is we dont know, but as far as being a chairman is concerned I liked a lot of what he said, and what he started in terms of deals for different types of fans etc.

 

In terms of his ideas it may be that they were shit, but Im leaning far more towards it being the personel used to impliment them that fucked it up.

[JH]

The fact that he communicated with the fans, lying or PR-exercise or whatever it was, makes him miles ahead of everyone else involved in the Ashley regime.