Portsmouth FC in yet more trouble - administration again?

[LooneyToonArmy]

Crisis-club Portsmouth are offering financial advice to supporters on their website. Pompey, who are in administration and have huge debts, are advertising PFC Financial Services division, which claims to bring everyday financial solutions to fans' families. One supporter said: "It's got to be a sick joke."

[Rob W]

The HMRC challenge to the administration is interesting, won't make the government popular in portsmouth.

 

it might amongst tax payers - but there are few of those in Portsmouth I guess

[Stifler]

The HMRC challenge to the administration is interesting, won't make the government popular in portsmouth.

 

it might amongst tax payers - but there are few of those in Portsmouth I guess

 

Rather a few, since between them and Glasgow they got all of our ship building.

[ikri]

From The Times

 

Portsmouth must find £7 million before the end of the month if they are to avoid being wound-up, the High Court heard today.

 

Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs (HMRC) laid bare Portsmouth's dire financial situation as the Premier League’s bottom club returned to court this morning after the basis on which they entered administration last Friday was challenged.

 

HMRC said that Portsmouth must pay them £7 million before the end of March and a further £7 million before the end of May to avoid being wound up. It had been thought that Portsmouth had avoided the threat of liquidation by entering voluntary administration last week, but HMRC claimed today that the threat remains.

 

Balram Chainrai says he will provide the £15 million Portsmouth need to get through to the end of the season, although Mr Justice Norris said that he "acid test" would only come when the administrators asked for the money. Both parties will return to the High Court in the week beginning March 15.

 

...

 

Lawyers told the court that Portsmouth's debts stood at £86 million and that they valued the squad at £21 million - £17 million less that Peter Storrie's estimation last week.

 

So, even after going into administration they need to find £7 million sharpish or they'll still be wound up and if they debt figures are true then it looks like they've been trading insolvent for some time now which could mean a criminal case should they be wound up.

[madras]

at least they are a premiership club eh ?

[Jaehyun]

at least they are a premiership club eh ?

Feel for the fans, but all to happy to take their undeserved place in the premierleague.

[madras]

at least they are a premiership club eh ?

Feel for the fans, but all to happy to take their undeserved place in the premierleague.

how is it undeserved ?

[Nobody]

at least they are a premiership club eh ?

Feel for the fans, but all to happy to take their undeserved place in the premierleague.

how is it undeserved ?

Arguably it's undeserved because they've spent far beyond their means on the players that has kept them in the league. Not saying I agree with the sentiment mind.

[madras]

at least they are a premiership club eh ?

Feel for the fans, but all to happy to take their undeserved place in the premierleague.

how is it undeserved ?

Arguably it's undeserved because they've spent far beyond their means on the players that has kept them in the league. Not saying I agree with the sentiment mind.

not a kick in the arse off what we done then.

[brummie]

at least they are a premiership club eh ?

Feel for the fans, but all to happy to take their undeserved place in the premierleague.

how is it undeserved ?

Arguably it's undeserved because they've spent far beyond their means on the players that has kept them in the league. Not saying I agree with the sentiment mind.

 

Isn't it a bit "glass houses" for a Newcastle fan - or, for that matter, a fan of about three quarters of the teams in the Premier League, including the one I support - to criticise Portsmouth for spending far beyond their means, though?

 

This isn't just Portsmouth's problem, it is football's problem, and if something doesn't change soon, it will all go to tit.

[Liam Liam Liam O]

at least they are a premiership club eh ?

Feel for the fans, but all to happy to take their undeserved place in the premierleague.

how is it undeserved ?

Arguably it's undeserved because they've spent far beyond their means on the players that has kept them in the league. Not saying I agree with the sentiment mind.

 

Isn't it a bit "glass houses" for a Newcastle fan - or, for that matter, a fan of about three quarters of the teams in the Premier League, including the one I support - to criticise Portsmouth for spending far beyond their means, though?

 

This isn't just Portsmouth's problem, it is football's problem, and if something doesn't change soon, it will all go to tit.

 

The whole of football is one big glass house, from chairmen, managers, players to fans.

[brummie]

at least they are a premiership club eh ?

Feel for the fans, but all to happy to take their undeserved place in the premierleague.

how is it undeserved ?

Arguably it's undeserved because they've spent far beyond their means on the players that has kept them in the league. Not saying I agree with the sentiment mind.

 

Isn't it a bit "glass houses" for a Newcastle fan - or, for that matter, a fan of about three quarters of the teams in the Premier League, including the one I support - to criticise Portsmouth for spending far beyond their means, though?

 

This isn't just Portsmouth's problem, it is football's problem, and if something doesn't change soon, it will all go to tit.

 

The whole of football is one big glass house, from chairmen, managers, players to fans.

 

Amen to that, brother Liam(s).

[Teasy]

at least they are a premiership club eh ?

Feel for the fans, but all to happy to take their undeserved place in the premierleague.

how is it undeserved ?

Arguably it's undeserved because they've spent far beyond their means on the players that has kept them in the league. Not saying I agree with the sentiment mind.

 

Isn't it a bit "glass houses" for a Newcastle fan - or, for that matter, a fan of about three quarters of the teams in the Premier League, including the one I support - to criticise Portsmouth for spending far beyond their means, though?

 

This isn't just Portsmouth's problem, it is football's problem, and if something doesn't change soon, it will all go to tit.

 

But surely you can see that there's quite a huge difference between how Newcastle United (or indeed any other Premiership club) have overspent in comparison to Portsmouth.  Their wages were about 100% of their turnover FFS!  Over spending is certainly a problem in general in Football, but Portsmouth took it too an entirely new level (at least for a Premiership club anyway).

[brummie]

That's the point, there isn't a huge difference.

 

Pompey was the extreme instance, but plenty of football clubs are run with sufficient disregard to the basic principles of business to find themselves in potentially the same problem pretty soon.

[Teasy]

That's the point, there isn't a huge difference.

 

Pompey was the extreme instance, but plenty of football clubs are run with sufficient disregard to the basic principles of business to find themselves in potentially the same problem pretty soon.

 

There are other clubs out there spending 100%+ of their income on wages alone?  Serious question that like, I'd be interested to know.

 

Certainly in comparison to most Premiership clubs (including us until this season) its a pretty large difference.

[Nobody]

at least they are a premiership club eh ?

Feel for the fans, but all to happy to take their undeserved place in the premierleague.

how is it undeserved ?

Arguably it's undeserved because they've spent far beyond their means on the players that has kept them in the league. Not saying I agree with the sentiment mind.

 

Isn't it a bit "glass houses" for a Newcastle fan - or, for that matter, a fan of about three quarters of the teams in the Premier League, including the one I support - to criticise Portsmouth for spending far beyond their means, though?

 

This isn't just Portsmouth's problem, it is football's problem, and if something doesn't change soon, it will all go to tit.

Fair point, but there's quite a difference when a club hasn't been able to pay their players for several months this year IMO. Not saying the overspending doesn't need to stop, but there's quite a difference between Pompeys overspending and anyone elses.

[brummie]

at least they are a premiership club eh ?

Feel for the fans, but all to happy to take their undeserved place in the premierleague.

how is it undeserved ?

Arguably it's undeserved because they've spent far beyond their means on the players that has kept them in the league. Not saying I agree with the sentiment mind.

 

Isn't it a bit "glass houses" for a Newcastle fan - or, for that matter, a fan of about three quarters of the teams in the Premier League, including the one I support - to criticise Portsmouth for spending far beyond their means, though?

 

This isn't just Portsmouth's problem, it is football's problem, and if something doesn't change soon, it will all go to tit.

Fair point, but there's quite a difference when a club hasn't been able to pay their players for several months this year IMO. Not saying the overspending doesn't need to stop, but there's quite a difference between Pompeys overspending and anyone elses.

 

No, there isn't that much of a difference.

 

Spending 100 percent of your turnover on salaries is unsustainable. Spending 80 percent of your turnover on salaries is also unsustainable.

 

One just becomes fatal quicker than the other.

[brummie]

That's the point, there isn't a huge difference.

 

Pompey was the extreme instance, but plenty of football clubs are run with sufficient disregard to the basic principles of business to find themselves in potentially the same problem pretty soon.

 

There are other clubs out there spending 100%+ of their income on wages alone?  Serious question that like, I'd be interested to know.

 

Certainly in comparison to most Premiership clubs (including us until this season) its a pretty large difference.

 

No, I don't think there are

 

What I meant was that very many football clubs operate on a basis which you would not find in any other business, where wage costs are an insupportably high proportion of turnover.

 

Portsmouth are the poster boy of football's meltdown, but for those of us who support clubs who either do, or traditionally have done, pretty much the same thing, if on a less imminently disastrous scale, to be going for the moral high ground is a bit hypocritical.

 

Football clubs are businesses, they don't operate in a special vacuum where the basic principles do not extend to them. It has got to end some time soon, and I reckon there will be more than a few chairmen looking at what is happening to Portsmouth and thinking "there but for the grace of God ..."

[macca888]

With the ridiculously high state of salaries been paid throughout english football and the high transfers fees paid, just to stay with the elite, you have to wonder how long smallish town clubs like Wigan, Bolton, Blackburn, Hull and even Sunderland can survive without rich benefactors bailing them out all the time.

 

The premiership will soon go back to the days of the 60s and 70s when first division clubs signed players from lower divisions which enabled those clubs to survive except now, it will be premiership teams hoping to sell players to the top 6 in order to survive.

 

In all honesty, the game in England seems to be heading for a huge change with the top 4+ heading towards forming a european league with europe's elite whilst the rest will battle on forlornly in the hope of reaching those heady heights one day.

[brummie]

Does anyone else think that the arse falling out of the football industry, and the tv money getting correspondingly slashed and football regressing a bit might actually be a *good* thing?

 

I know one argument will be that our league won't compete with other European ones, but beyond supporters of the Sky 4, does anyone really have any interest in that?

 

I have no desire whatsoever for any of those four clubs to be anywhere near European silverware.

 

I'd rather see 20 teams (or less, ideally) with eleven Warren Aspinalls running around if it made things more competitive.

[macca888]

Does anyone else think that the arse falling out of the football industry, and the tv money getting correspondingly slashed and football regressing a bit might actually be a *good* thing?

 

I know one argument will be that our league won't compete with other European ones, but beyond supporters of the Sky 4, does anyone really have any interest in that?

 

 

I have no desire whatsoever for any of those four clubs to be anywhere near European silverware.

 

I'd rather see 20 teams (or less, ideally) with eleven Warren Aspinalls running around if it made things more competitive.

I think you have a very relevant point here. The current champions league is a mini version of a european super league organised by FIFA. If the G12 clubs, or whatever they are called now, eventually form a breakaway european league, then all most TV revenue would obviously go to them. Most european leagues would be treated as also rans and we might find ourselves with a more even local competition. The only downside is the european league clubs will have first call on any talent coming through and I can see this scenario coming closer and closer with each passing season.

[Teasy]

 

 

No, I don't think there are

 

What I meant was that very many football clubs operate on a basis which you would not find in any other business, where wage costs are an insupportably high proportion of turnover.

 

Portsmouth are the poster boy of football's meltdown, but for those of us who support clubs who either do, or traditionally have done, pretty much the same thing, if on a less imminently disastrous scale, to be going for the moral high ground is a bit hypocritical.

 

Football clubs are businesses, they don't operate in a special vacuum where the basic principles do not extend to them. It has got to end some time soon, and I reckon there will be more than a few chairmen looking at what is happening to Portsmouth and thinking "there but for the grace of God ..."

 

Its not as if Portsmouth have done pretty much the same as most clubs and just got unlucky though.  A lot of Football clubs operate very near or just over their financial means and take financial risks, but I just don't agree that any level of financial risk is pretty much the same as any other.  The level of risk matters a hell of a lot, plenty of businesses outside Football take risks, but what Portsmouth have done is absolute financial suicide.

 

Doesn't matter though really.  We both agree that Football needs to calm down financially and that hopefully Portsmouth will scare a lot of them into doing so.

[Incognito]

Is it just me that has noticed that anywhere,except his current club,that Churchill dog has managed,is/has been in financial shite?

[Teasy]

No its been discussed here plenty of times, give him time at his current club, hopefully he'll turn it around

[afar]

Couple of points:

 

Brummie's crap about NUFC fans in glass houses. As Teasy said it's not the same at as as portsmouth. Pompey were way and above out of control, they have no fan base, it's tiny, they have a crappy ground with no corporate facilities. Success on the pitch, to whatever degree would never have made that club a profitable business. They were solely reliant on their rich benefactor. When he lost interest, they were always in the shit. Even if they wiped out their debt now, they would still not be able to pay their bloody bills.

Compare that with Newcastle, we sustained a high wage bill, too high of course for a number of years, but we had the ability through our fan base, corporate facilities and marketing to pay for that had we achieved success on the pitch. We have never filled for administration or have been issued wind up orders by HMRC. Even after going down, we regularily pull in crowds 5 - 10 thousand more than fighting for CL place Aston Villa. Ironically, if we go up this year, we could be one of the most healthy football clubs in the PL from a financial point of view. So I'm not really getting the Glass Houses line really ??

If anything I would be worried if I were a Villa fan, they do not have the loyal fan base to sustain their wage bill, they've been spending big for a few years now and Randy Lerner, is not the white knight he's painted as by the Villa fans, his mismanagement of the Cleveland Browns is a huge concern in the NFL and the Browns difficulties could quiet easily come back and bite Villa in the arse very soon. They are where they are right now, down to one person, Martin O'Neil, who is a fantastic manager, if he were to leave for whatever reason, I would be very concerned if I were a Villa fan.

I will agree though that football in general has been out of control in terms of financial responsibilities and the dificulties Pompey and West Ham and others are going through should be a wake up call to all clubs.

 

 

The other point:

Just read the rumours page on the Beeb and according to the Mirror (so we can probably take this with a pinch of salt), the premiership is preparing to bail pompey out with 32 million !!

TBH that would make me very angry if true.