The old Chris Hughton discussion thread

[Guest firetotheworks]

Apart from under Keegan we've had a generally labouring and unfit squad under every one of our managers since Robson. And yet every time a new one came in they'd talk about how they were alarmed at how unfit they all were.

[Mick]

Apart from under Keegan we've had a generally labouring and unfit squad under every one of our managers since Robson. And yet every time a new one came in they'd talk about how they were alarmed at how unfit they all were.

 

At least Shearer tried to change things in the short time that he was here.

[Parky]

I don't know how you can take 11 players who have trained to be footballers all their lives, (well, since about 11 or 12), and make them look like you took 11 guys out of the stand half an hour before kick-off.

 

It's a very dark and powerful magic.

[Parky]

We all know that Ashley wont sack Hughton because he is yes man and does what he is told. We wont get a big name manager because we dont have the funds to give him to spend. Ashley's 5 year plan is basically to put the club on the market every year for the next 5 years and hope he sells. That is it.

 

We are stuck with Hughton so dont expect much in the ensuing seasons, e4specially if we go up.

 

I think Ashley will sack Hughton.

[TRon]

Apart from under Keegan we've had a generally labouring and unfit squad under every one of our managers since Robson. And yet every time a new one came in they'd talk about how they were alarmed at how unfit they all were.

 

At least Shearer tried to change things in the short time that he was here.

 

Well he talked publicly about all the changes but it wasn't really evident where it mattered, on the pitch.

[Parky]

Apart from under Keegan we've had a generally labouring and unfit squad under every one of our managers since Robson. And yet every time a new one came in they'd talk about how they were alarmed at how unfit they all were.

 

At least Shearer tried to change things in the short time that he was here.

 

Well he talked publicly about all the changes but it wasn't really evident where it mattered, on the pitch.

 

Take AS over Hughton any day of the week and I'm not a big Shearer as manager fanboy either!1

[Yorkie]

Did he get it all wrong today then? Did Jonas come on btw?

 

If a player isn't fit enough to start, then he isn't fit enough to be on the bench either in my opinion. It's different if it's a player who's had a long injury lay-off - and is being phased back in. But if you're resting someone, don't defeat the point of the object. For one thing, if he's unfit - don't risk it. For another thing, it wastes a seat on the bench. If benching him is gonna make you umm and ahh all match long, then it's hardly beneficial for the team.

[Parky]

Did he get it all wrong today then? Did Jonas come on btw?

 

If a player isn't fit enough to start, then he isn't fit enough to be on the bench either in my opinion. It's different if it's a player who's had a long injury lay-off - and is being phased back in. But if you're resting someone, don't defeat the point of the object. For one thing, if he's unfit - don't risk it. For another thing, it wastes a seat on the bench. If benching him is gonna make you umm and ahh all match long, then it's hardly beneficial for the team.

 

The common theme is that the game is about space. The first thing I look at with a good manager is where the players are going without the ball. Most of our lot go nowhere, Routledge has been good the little I've seen of him mind.

[Guest neesy111]

Did he get it all wrong today then? Did Jonas come on btw?

 

If a player isn't fit enough to start, then he isn't fit enough to be on the bench either in my opinion. It's different if it's a player who's had a long injury lay-off - and is being phased back in. But if you're resting someone, don't defeat the point of the object. For one thing, if he's unfit - don't risk it. For another thing, it wastes a seat on the bench. If benching him is gonna make you umm and ahh all match long, then it's hardly beneficial for the team.

 

jonas didn't come on

 

he made 1 sub, best for lovenkrands

 

what he is getting wrong, is all about what he's doing in training etc, this team is getting far worse, just lumping the ball etc, and it's up to him as manager to change this, players look totally unfit and unmotivated

[Ronaldo]

Yes and No.

 

That's one of the most undeserving points i've ever seen, just us having the ball was a rarety. The likes of Colo are worth every penny in wages, I don't care how much they get paid. Without him and Enrique I dread to think where we'd be in the table.

[Parky]

Yes and No.

 

That's one of the most undeserving points i've ever seen, just us having the ball was a rarety. The likes of Colo are worth every penny in wages, I don't care how much they get paid. Without him and Enrique I dread to think where we'd be in the table.

 

Those two have been top notch this season.

[macca888]

Ronaldo

 

For once, I actually agree with you. I only watched the first half today because I thought it was hugely disappointing and it was late here too. From what I saw, Colo was head and shoulders our best player today. What annoyed me most was the lack of effort from ouir central midfield. Nolan got caught in possession numerous times and Smith was.....................well Smith as usual. The two full backs were reduced to just lumping the ball forward although Van whathisname at least did make an attempt to get further up the park.

 

I thought we defended far too deeply and Swansea took advantage of the space in front of our defence. If they had a capable goalscorer, we would have lost the game by half time. I cant wait to see Barton back in the centre of midfield because we clearly lack some energy, creativity and bite in there. The sooner Jose gets back, the better although the dutch lad has done ok. We obviously miss the Jonas-Jose conmnection on the left. Taylor is actually a big miss too. I would think about partnering Barton and Hall in the centre of midfield when the time is right.

[Mick]

 

Well he talked publicly about all the changes but it wasn't really evident where it mattered, on the pitch.

 

He was only here for 8 games, getting the players fit in that time at the end of the season is a big ask.

[Yorkie]

 

Well he talked publicly about all the changes but it wasn't really evident where it mattered, on the pitch.

 

He was only here for 8 games, getting those cunts fit and motivated in that time at the end of the season was impossible.

 

FYP.

[Cajun]

Today was very hard to say whether or not Hughton got it wrong because if the players could pass then we never know how we actually would have played under that set up.

 

It's easy to say "he picks the team" but who from that bench would have been knocking the ball about any better? Maybe Ranger in for Carroll as he has a better touch but if Hughton did bring him in and we failed to score he would have been abused (and deserve it) for dropping a striker who is going through a bit of a purple patch.

 

Actually considering how all he does is score and isn't at the moment I would have been tempted to drop Nolan, play Guthrie in the centre and Ryan Taylor on the left wing (or Kadar left back and Van Aanholt left wing).

 

So, yeah I would have done things differently and would have made at least one more change earlier but when the players are that inept it's hard to say Hughton's set up failed. Motivation was severly lacking too, I hope Calderwood is the mentalist in that partnership because those players need a fucking kick in at half time when we play like that.

[johnnypd]

at this stage im more worried about his overall management than individual decisions about formations and substitutions, though there's quite a bit to criticise there also. the players look unfit and can't pass to one another so you have to wonder what is going on in training, while plenty of players look short of confidence (Guthrie in particular) which is odd for a side top of the table.

 

to me it seems like Hughton hasn't really got round to working up a coherent system that the side plays, other than hit and hope, which keeps us on the back foot in pretty much every match. Swansea are a good example of a side that work to a coherent system and that has to come from the manager - they look solid in defence and play fluent possession football. i don't think their players are more technically gifted than ours, pratley, kuqi, dyer, cotterill, tate, williams etc aren't more technically gifted than guthrie, lovenkrands, routledge, nolan, coloccini, van aarnholt etc, the difference is that they look like a team rather than individuals.

[Guest firetotheworks]

On tactics. The only one I know that isn't the long ball has been the relationship that Jonas and Lovelycakes had, and in an interview they said it was something they planned between themselves. I imagine the same is true with Jonas and Jose tbh.

[TRon]

at this stage im more worried about his overall management than individual decisions about formations and substitutions, though there's quite a bit to criticise there also. the players look unfit and can't pass to one another so you have to wonder what is going on in training, while plenty of players look short of confidence (Guthrie in particular) which is odd for a side top of the table.

 

to me it seems like Hughton hasn't really got round to working up a coherent system that the side plays, other than hit and hope, which keeps us on the back foot in pretty much every match. Swansea are a good example of a side that work to a coherent system and that has to come from the manager - they look solid in defence and play fluent possession football. i don't think their players are more technically gifted than ours, pratley, kuqi, dyer, cotterill, tate, williams etc aren't more technically gifted than guthrie, lovenkrands, routledge, nolan, coloccini, van aarnholt etc, the difference is that they look like a team rather than individuals.

 

It's not about technique, for all his faults, Nolan is actually quite an accomplished footballer in that respect. Our fault seems to lie in the movement and fitness, whether that's down to the coaching or just some players having 40 yr old legs is the issue. When Mourinho sold Geremi for that reason was it his fault he couldn't get him to run harder or faster?

 

 

[Guest Howaythetoon]

This group of players couldn't play football no matter what so to expect Hughton to get them to play like Brazil is f***ing absurd in the extreme. People need to be more realistic here. On the one hand they lambaste the midfield and the overall lack of genuine ability in the team yet on the other hand they expect a rookie manager who is s**** anyway (in their eyes), to get these players to play football. Howay man...

 

 

"Hey Chris, we know you're s**** and the team isn't the best either but we do expect you to get them playing like Brazil every minute of every game. If you don't we want you out man, never mind the fact you got us top with this s*** team in your first year as a manager at one of the most unstable clubs in world football with a fanbase as demanding as ours, we want ENTERTAINED..."

 

The bloke is doing a very good job if you ask me and is proving himself more than capable at this level, cut him some slack. I had hoped with relegation that the severe analysis of every minute aspect of the club, manager, players and performances would end but I should have known better, if anything the uber critical eye is even bigger these days.

 

We are top of the league and heading up a division. Lets just f***ing get there eh and then do all the bull s*** analysis.

[Ronaldo]

There's playing like Brazil and then there's being incapable of stringing three passes together. I think teams have realised that we aren't an attacking threat away from home and no longer play to contain us. Only good defending saved us from once again being 3-0 down yesterday.

 

Fortunately, we've got 8 games left at home, win them all and we're more or less guaranteed second place.

 

 

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Our midfield and attack lack genuine ball ability and brains too so its kind of hard for the team to play football. Its actually to Hughton's (and the team's) credit that we are top.

[johnnypd]

saying playing like brazil is bollocks, more accurate would be playing like forest, brom or swansea, for instance. this group of players are more technically gifted than most in the league so there's a problem if they are incapable of making basic passes when we know they can do that. there are very few midfielders or defenders in this league with the ability on the ball that Guthrie or Coloccini possess, while Nolan, Butt, Jonas, Enrique etc are far better than most. Even someone like Smith has very crisp first touch and short passing so saying there's an inherent problem with the players in this regard is, imo, totally wrong.

 

there are big problems with coherence - by this stage in the season the players should have an almost telepathic knowledge of where their team-mates are, what sort of pass they want etc. sides top of their leagues usually know this - the other teams near the top with us, who aren't that good, certainly do - yet not us. we still look like strangers.

 

the little one touch stuff comes from the likes of Jonas and Enrique, as others have said, this looks like it is down to personal initiative rather than something drilled into them on the training ground - if it was the latter - how come we don't see that all over the pitch?

 

the understanding and coherence between the likes of Guthrie, Nolan, Smith, Carroll etc is poor, more like a relegation side than someone going for the title. the movement is diabolical, opporition sides sweep up the ball easily cos no one is providing options or making intelligent runs, while off the ball they simply pass it through us - even ten man leicester did this - because we're so amazingly unfit.

 

as said a million times, the reason we are top has less to do with any sort of extra value that Hughton has added to the side through good management and coaching and more to do with better individual defenders than anyone in the league, the fact that we do have end product in the squad and, most importantly, the crap we've faced. Swansea are a good example - tonnes of possession, quite a few chances, only one goal. they had some opportunities to finish the game off and didn't take them otherwise we'd be dead and buried - they even airkicked a shot that wouldve been a guaranteed goal not long before Carroll scored.

[Guest firetotheworks]

Our midfield and attack lack genuine ball ability and brains too so its kind of hard for the team to play football. Its actually to Hughton's (and the team's) credit that we are top.

 

Playing devils advocate again here, but there's genuine ball ability, and there's simple passing and moving. We've had far too much luck this season, and benefited on other teams not being able to finish their dinner.

[johnnypd]

do ten man leicester have more "genuine ball ability and brains" than an 11 man side containig van aanholt, butt, coloccini, routledge, smith, nolan, guthrie? even shite like ryan taylor were known, when they were in this division last, for being amongst the better technical players around.

[Mick]

Hughton doesn't only pick the team, he also puts the team together and he's done nothing with our central midfield.  Joey Barton coming back is no excuse because we would have brought nobody in if we used players coming back from injury as a reason to do nothing as Coloccini is now back and we'll eventually have a fit Enrique and Taylor.  We've brought in 3 defenders during the transfer window and dropped Kadar who looks like a better defender than Van Aanholt.  We've brought in Pancrate and Routledge to play right wing and let a right winger go out on loan who is probably of more use than Pancrate.  We've brought in Best who looks no better than what we already have up front, we don't need 5 forwards in the first team so bringing in a 5th should have only been done if he offers something that the others don't and I'm still waiting to see if he does and what that might be.

 

Our central midfield is at best gash, at worst it’s a liability and that’s down to Hughton as they have been gash for all of the season.

 

As for motivation, we’ve clearly got a problem as some of our players are going to seed.  We look unfit and we’re getting slower and becoming less able to control a game and less able to string 2 passes together, we’re going backwards from a very low standard to start with.  We’ve tried a different combination for 1 ½ games and reverted to a failed method because things were going wrong for ½ of those games.  We were under more pressure against Swansea with our cloggers than we were against Derby who scored 3 times out of 4 shots on target.  It might look as if we were more in the game against Swansea because they only scored once and we equalised but that’s far too simplistic.  Swansea could have slaughtered us if they were better in front of goal as they had more than twice as many shots on target than Derby.

 

Ranger is a much better footballer than Carroll but isn't getting the time on the pitch to show what he can do, he hasn't scored as many goals as Carroll but he's never going to do that unless he's given the chance.  Ranger hasn't had a chance and he's probably now behind Best yet he hasn't been as ineffective as Carroll has been when he's not scoring.

 

Hughton is a bore and the team is reflecting the manager’s temperament, Hughton was a defender and the team is being put out to defend at all costs in the hope that we can nick something at the other end.  We’re grinding out points which we don’t deserve, that would be a good thing if we were putting in more of the performances like we did against Cardiff but we’re not.  Far too often we hear Hughton telling us how good the opposition are, Derby were a very good team according to Hughton before the match and we played as if they were very good, we played as if we had feared them.

 

If teams start coming to Newcastle and trying to win the games then we’re in deep shit because our home form is only the way it is because very few teams have the bottle to try and come at us.  If they start having a go then the players who are being exposed away from home will be exposed at St James’ because they are just as vulnerable.    QPR had a go at us and we looked shit against them for most of the match but managed to get an equaliser because QPR tried to hold on to a one goal lead instead of trying to get a second.

 

The team has no leadership either on or off the pitch.  Off the pitch we have a players committee who the players have used as a reason for us being top of the league.  I have seen no reason to believe that Hughton has any leadership qualities.  How many people would go to work and put in a good days graft if they didn’t have a boss looking over them?  From what I’ve seen during my working life I would guess that 80 to 90 percent of people would do nothing and our players look like that 80 to 90 percent who have nothing to fear if they just turn up and do nothing.