Guest firetotheworks Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 Kieron Dyer would never have been close to a top player even if he had stayed fit. You need to have good technique and awareness to be a top player. Pace and dribbling would never have been enough. Don't kid yourself, he had an awful lot going for him and would probably have been held in the sam esteem as Joe Cole had he kept his head screwed on and stayed relatively free of injury. Joe Cole? That seems an odd player to use, considering they're nothing alike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 When did I say they were? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 When did I say they were? You didn't, but why would you pluck Joe Cole out of thin air? I don't see any comparable attributes, or qualities at all. Even hypothetical. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughesy Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 He'd have been little better than a SWP or a Lennon. Seriously, the guy didn't have nearly enough basic footballing technique to be a top player - he couldn't pick a pass, he couldn't play a pass and his control was average at best. The occasions when NUFC played best when we had him was when he came off the bench as an impact player. Massively massively overrated player. Joe Cole is in a different league as a footballer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 When did I say they were? You didn't, but why would you pluck Joe Cole out of thin air? I don't see any comparable attributes, or qualities at all. Even hypothetical. Because, if you read the post again, you'd see that I said 'same esteem' - a different type of player, not world class but dangerous all across the midfield and generally a very good option. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 He'd have been little better than a SWP or a Lennon. Seriously, the guy didn't have nearly enough basic footballing technique to be a top player - he couldn't pick a pass, he couldn't play a pass and his control was average at best. The occasions when NUFC played best when we had him was when he came off the bench as an impact player. Massively massively overrated player. Joe Cole is in a different league as a footballer. Complete and utter s****. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 When did I say they were? You didn't, but why would you pluck Joe Cole out of thin air? I don't see any comparable attributes, or qualities at all. Even hypothetical. Because, if you read the post again, you'd see that I said 'same esteem' - a different type of player, not world class but dangerous all across the midfield and generally a very good option. I read it the first time, and it still makes absolutely no sense to me. So, you think they're different types of players (obviously), but that they pose a comparable level of threat to the opposition? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 As I said once already, if he had stayed fit and kept his head screwed on he'd have been held in the same esteem. On the fringes of the England first Xl, very versatile and considered not quite top tier but a good option. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Roger Kint Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 Cant understand the confusion in what Ronaldo is saying tbh esteem 1. to have great respect or high regard for to esteem a colleague 2. high regard or respect; good opinion Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 I think an excess of chinese food is slowly sending Icarus insane. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughesy Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 He'd have been little better than a SWP or a Lennon. Seriously, the guy didn't have nearly enough basic footballing technique to be a top player - he couldn't pick a pass, he couldn't play a pass and his control was average at best. The occasions when NUFC played best when we had him was when he came off the bench as an impact player. Massively massively overrated player. Joe Cole is in a different league as a footballer. Complete and utter s****. We can agree to disagree if you'd like... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 Aye, all this Chinese food in Japan. I'm not fucking daft man, I know what esteem is. It's that I know what it means that's making it all the more strange. Esteem comes about because of a players qualities (even if they're different) It's easier if I just say I disagree, because even hypothetically I think Joe Cole's public esteem would still be a much higher than that of Dyers. And to even get to that stage it would take a few more 'ifs' than just if he'd stayed injury free. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 It's easier if I just say I disagree, because even hypothetically I think Joe Cole's public esteem would still be a much higher than that of Dyers. And to even get to that stage it would take a few more 'ifs' than just if he'd stayed injury free. Yes, and i acknowledged one of them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 It's easier if I just say I disagree, because even hypothetically I think Joe Cole's public esteem would still be a much higher than that of Dyers. And to even get to that stage it would take a few more 'ifs' than just if he'd stayed injury free. Yes, and i acknowledged one of them. If only you were this defensive when you were boxing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keefaz Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 Half of Joe Cole's 'esteem' comes from the fact he's a Chelsea player. If, somehow, Dyer had gone to Chelsea under Mourinho or Ranieri then they'd probably be spoken about in similar terms. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokko Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 If Dyer played 90% of his games throughout his career we'd have lost him a couple of years earlier and he'd be currently tearing it up for Manu. He wasn't the most effective player in and around the box, but with games and better players/coaches etc...he'd be more deadly than we'd ever seen him. He could have afforded to be a massive bellend if it worked out like that, shame he was a proper dickhead while never fulfilling his potential and why most people have a problem with him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughesy Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 I obviously wasn't watching the same player to the rest of you - can't get my head round some of these opinions of Dyer. Amazing stuff. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 I'm flabbergasted. Joe Cole.......Kieron Dyer. I can't be arsed to debate it. I'll just add this. You're all mental. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keefaz Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 I'm flabbergasted. Joe Cole.......Kieron Dyer. I can't be arsed to debate it. I'll just add this. You're all mental. Go eat some chow mein, man. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 If Dyer played 90% of his games throughout his career we'd have lost him a couple of years earlier and he'd be currently tearing it up for Manu. He wasn't the most effective player in and around the box, but with games and better players/coaches etc...he'd be more deadly than we'd ever seen him. He could have afforded to be a massive bellend if it worked out like that, shame he was a proper dickhead while never fulfilling his potential and why most people have a problem with him. I don't think he's overrated at all. In fact I think alot of views are clouded by his excessive injuries and excessive cunt-ness - he's actually quite underrated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thespence Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 IF has been used a lot in this thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
matta Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 IF has been used a lot in this thread. but it's so true Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pie Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 I'm flabbergasted. Joe Cole.......Kieron Dyer. I can't be arsed to debate it. I'll just add this. You're all mental. Dyer was at least equal the player. Made of glass but his running off the ball and touch were better. Cole takes far too long to get a ball under control and moving. As for pace and versatility? No contest really is there? Cole is a show pony who rarely got a run in the team under 4 different Chelsea managers. Prior to that he was decidely average. Dyer played a significant number of games and linked very well with those around him. Gary Speed certainly appreciated the legs next him and the front two had a field day because he dropped deep, took the ball off the centre halves (and he was probably the last central midfielder we had who was capable and confident doing that) and could move it off swifly. His pace made him a problem and the likes of Shearer and Bellamy had the wit to utilise that. Pretty sure his off field antics didnt help but thats the kind of player who comes here. Its also the reason Craig Bellamy is off to his 9th club. Both got a little too far up their own arses up here. We arent Man Utd are we? If we had been then both would have been shifted a lot earlier. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughesy Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 You genuintely think that Dyer had a better touch than Joe Cole? Surely you are joking...? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 Dyer's close control was excellent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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