UV Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 Look, those people on here who cannot see the woods for the trees (and I dont have to name them) need to understand several points here. Ashley has admitted to the mistakes and is trying to rectify them The previous regime took this club to the brink of oblivion. They have to share the blame. Ashley is trying to put the club on a sound financial footing and I, for one, will be glad to see the back of these so called superstars who have been holding the club for ransom for years. Rome wasnt built in a day, or in our case, rebuilt. Ashley seems to have decided to keep the club. Love him or hate him, he has backed his current manager and we have had an unexpectedly excellent season. Maybe he has turned the corner and promotion being achieved against everyones expectations. Crucial period will be next season to see whether we can build on it. I am no Ashley supporter but I find the one eyed opinions of some on this thread to be childish, lacking in knowledge and simply downright unsupportive of the club. Simple answer to this, if you dont like it, go and support someone else, maybe like Leeds or Middlesbrough, perhaps even Portsmouth, Palace, Chester City, Luton, Hull City or the plethera of other clubs facing financial meltdown in the years to come. We were so close under Shepherd and like it or not, Ashley saved our bacon...............fact. he had a chance to rectify his mistakes when he appointed KK again but didn't support him. I imagine quite a lot of people have supported Newcastle for many years, watch them every game home and away, and aren't about to stop So what mistakes had he made before appointing Keegan? what planet do you come from ? So you can't think of any, then? malandro listed some. Paying big wages and moaning about it later too. What do you think of him losing KK and what do you think of the quality of our recent signings, on long contracts Ashley's first big mistake was appointing Keegan manager. Recent signings weren't bad at all, given the circs, and none of them are on particularly long contracts. Allows them a chance in the PL, with a two years left on the contract if we want to sell them on at that point. No, Ashleys mistake was not in appointing Keegan, but in the shameful, deceitful way he treated him. How can anyone trust him or believe a word he says after that? I'd say Keegan was the one who it's difficult to trust. It's interesting that there doesn't seem to have been a stampede for his managerial services, since he left. Legendary player and great manager but I agree just a bit too "sugary sweet nice" to fully trust. Always loved wooing the masses with his emotional England/Scouser/Geordie thing but ultimately proved that like the rest of them he was only in it for himself and the money. You big cynic. What happened? Were you let down and hurt in the past? he didn't look down his nose at fans as though they were something dirty he'd trod on like some previous leaders or insult us the way others (supposedly our own) did. He sat with the fans, drank with the fans and genuinely seemed to want the same as us :'( Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timnufc22 Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 Can I ask these people who dont trust Keegan, how we're you feeling when he went? When everything kicked off, at the Hull game etc? Do you know the opinion around that time he'd been treated like crap has been proved correct? Have you read the tribunal report? Do you think Hiddink would have been happy when Dennis Wise tells him to look at a great player on Youtube, the clips are rubbish, then Mr Wise tells him the quality of the player is actually irrelevant, that he just wants to do a favour for an agent? On the second last day of the transfer window, thats what your DOF is busy doing? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 Can I ask these people who dont trust Keegan, how we're you feeling when he went? When everything kicked off, at the Hull game etc? Do you know the opinion around that time he'd been treated like crap has been proved correct? Have you read the tribunal report? Do you think Hiddink would have been happy when Dennis Wise tells him to look at a great player on Youtube, the clips are rubbish, then Mr Wise tells him the quality of the player is actually irrelevant, that he just wants to do a favour for an agent? On the second last day of the transfer window, thats what your DOF is busy doing? when he left i felt like i'd conned myself. deep inside i knew it would happen but told myself it wouldn't. yes i've read the tribunal report and i posted a few questions about it at the time (still unanswered) and until those are answered it doesn't clear the situation up.. as for dennis wse and youtube i'd hoped that would have been looked at by FIFA or UEFA as it seems very iffy as it was a favour to some agent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Liam Liam O Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 Can I ask these people who dont trust Keegan, how we're you feeling when he went? When everything kicked off, at the Hull game etc? Do you know the opinion around that time he'd been treated like crap has been proved correct? Have you read the tribunal report? Do you think Hiddink would have been happy when Dennis Wise tells him to look at a great player on Youtube, the clips are rubbish, then Mr Wise tells him the quality of the player is actually irrelevant, that he just wants to do a favour for an agent? On the second last day of the transfer window, thats what your DOF is busy doing? What a fantastic comparison Hiddink PSV Eredivisie Winner : 1986–87, 1987–88, 1988–89, 2002–03, 2004–05, 2005–06 KNVB Cup Winner : 1988, 1989, 1990, 2005 European Cup Winner : 1988 Real Madrid Intercontinental Cup Winner : 1998 Chelsea FA Cup Winner (1): 2009 Netherlands UEFA Euro 1996 Quarter Finals 1998 FIFA World Cup Fourth Place South Korea 2002 FIFA World Cup Fourth Place Australia 2006 FIFA World Cup Second Round Russia UEFA Euro 2008 Semi Final Keegan Newcastle United Football League Division One: Champion 1992–93 Fulham Football League Second Division: Champion 1998–99 Manchester City Football League Division One: Champion 2001–02 England Euro 2000 : Group Stages Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timnufc22 Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 Can I ask these people who dont trust Keegan, how we're you feeling when he went? When everything kicked off, at the Hull game etc? Do you know the opinion around that time he'd been treated like crap has been proved correct? Have you read the tribunal report? Do you think Hiddink would have been happy when Dennis Wise tells him to look at a great player on Youtube, the clips are rubbish, then Mr Wise tells him the quality of the player is actually irrelevant, that he just wants to do a favour for an agent? On the second last day of the transfer window, thats what your DOF is busy doing? What a fantastic comparison Hiddink PSV Eredivisie Winner : 1986–87, 1987–88, 1988–89, 2002–03, 2004–05, 2005–06 KNVB Cup Winner : 1988, 1989, 1990, 2005 European Cup Winner : 1988 Real Madrid Intercontinental Cup Winner : 1998 Chelsea FA Cup Winner (1): 2009 Netherlands UEFA Euro 1996 Quarter Finals 1998 FIFA World Cup Fourth Place South Korea 2002 FIFA World Cup Fourth Place Australia 2006 FIFA World Cup Second Round Russia UEFA Euro 2008 Semi Final Keegan Newcastle United Football League Division One: Champion 1992–93 Fulham Football League Second Division: Champion 1998–99 Manchester City Football League Division One: Champion 2001–02 England Euro 2000 : Group Stages I think the fact you are pretending I'm comparing Keegan & Hiddink as manager's in terms of achievements says it all, your not reslly interested in having a sensible conversation are you? More interested in your ' eeee god look how far out he is '. I was comparing how ANY manager would have felt when Dennis Wise told them the Gonzalez story. I'm sure someone like Hiddink would not accepted stuff like that, like most managers. I think you already knew that, but were still sad enough to dig up every detail of the cv's of both managers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 Can I ask these people who dont trust Keegan, how we're you feeling when he went? When everything kicked off, at the Hull game etc? Do you know the opinion around that time he'd been treated like crap has been proved correct? Have you read the tribunal report? Do you think Hiddink would have been happy when Dennis Wise tells him to look at a great player on Youtube, the clips are rubbish, then Mr Wise tells him the quality of the player is actually irrelevant, that he just wants to do a favour for an agent? On the second last day of the transfer window, thats what your DOF is busy doing? What a fantastic comparison Hiddink PSV Eredivisie Winner : 1986–87, 1987–88, 1988–89, 2002–03, 2004–05, 2005–06 KNVB Cup Winner : 1988, 1989, 1990, 2005 European Cup Winner : 1988 Real Madrid Intercontinental Cup Winner : 1998 Chelsea FA Cup Winner (1): 2009 Netherlands UEFA Euro 1996 Quarter Finals 1998 FIFA World Cup Fourth Place South Korea 2002 FIFA World Cup Fourth Place Australia 2006 FIFA World Cup Second Round Russia UEFA Euro 2008 Semi Final Keegan Newcastle United Football League Division One: Champion 1992–93 Fulham Football League Second Division: Champion 1998–99 Manchester City Football League Division One: Champion 2001–02 England Euro 2000 : Group Stages I think the fact you are pretending I'm comparing Keegan & Hiddink as manager's in terms of achievements says it all, your not reslly interested in having a sensible conversation are you? More interested in your ' eeee god look how far out he is '. I was comparing how ANY manager would have felt when Dennis Wise told them the Gonzalez story. I'm sure someone like Hiddink would not accepted stuff like that, like most managers. I think you already knew that, but were still sad enough to dig up every detail of the cv's of both managers. unfortunatly i doubt the gonzalez stroy is a rarity and anyone who thinks managers will have the final say in all comings and goings is naive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timnufc22 Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 Can I ask these people who dont trust Keegan, how we're you feeling when he went? When everything kicked off, at the Hull game etc? Do you know the opinion around that time he'd been treated like crap has been proved correct? Have you read the tribunal report? Do you think Hiddink would have been happy when Dennis Wise tells him to look at a great player on Youtube, the clips are rubbish, then Mr Wise tells him the quality of the player is actually irrelevant, that he just wants to do a favour for an agent? On the second last day of the transfer window, thats what your DOF is busy doing? What a fantastic comparison Hiddink PSV Eredivisie Winner : 1986–87, 1987–88, 1988–89, 2002–03, 2004–05, 2005–06 KNVB Cup Winner : 1988, 1989, 1990, 2005 European Cup Winner : 1988 Real Madrid Intercontinental Cup Winner : 1998 Chelsea FA Cup Winner (1): 2009 Netherlands UEFA Euro 1996 Quarter Finals 1998 FIFA World Cup Fourth Place South Korea 2002 FIFA World Cup Fourth Place Australia 2006 FIFA World Cup Second Round Russia UEFA Euro 2008 Semi Final Keegan Newcastle United Football League Division One: Champion 1992–93 Fulham Football League Second Division: Champion 1998–99 Manchester City Football League Division One: Champion 2001–02 England Euro 2000 : Group Stages I think the fact you are pretending I'm comparing Keegan & Hiddink as manager's in terms of achievements says it all, your not reslly interested in having a sensible conversation are you? More interested in your ' eeee god look how far out he is '. I was comparing how ANY manager would have felt when Dennis Wise told them the Gonzalez story. I'm sure someone like Hiddink would not accepted stuff like that, like most managers. I think you already knew that, but were still sad enough to dig up every detail of the cv's of both managers. unfortunatly i doubt the gonzalez stroy is a rarity and anyone who thinks managers will have the final say in all comings and goings is naive. IIm sure its not, but this was when the squad was desperately short in certain area's, only a day before the transfer window shut, and when any trust you would have with your DOF would be broken ("Ive got a great player for you"). And Im sure that that any other favour's to other ganets in football at least get returned (where were the south american wonder kids in January?). Its not exactly impressive stuff (to say the least) for any manager who is serious about taking the club forward. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 Can I ask these people who dont trust Keegan, how we're you feeling when he went? When everything kicked off, at the Hull game etc? Do you know the opinion around that time he'd been treated like crap has been proved correct? Have you read the tribunal report? Do you think Hiddink would have been happy when Dennis Wise tells him to look at a great player on Youtube, the clips are rubbish, then Mr Wise tells him the quality of the player is actually irrelevant, that he just wants to do a favour for an agent? On the second last day of the transfer window, thats what your DOF is busy doing? What a fantastic comparison Hiddink PSV Eredivisie Winner : 1986–87, 1987–88, 1988–89, 2002–03, 2004–05, 2005–06 KNVB Cup Winner : 1988, 1989, 1990, 2005 European Cup Winner : 1988 Real Madrid Intercontinental Cup Winner : 1998 Chelsea FA Cup Winner (1): 2009 Netherlands UEFA Euro 1996 Quarter Finals 1998 FIFA World Cup Fourth Place South Korea 2002 FIFA World Cup Fourth Place Australia 2006 FIFA World Cup Second Round Russia UEFA Euro 2008 Semi Final Keegan Newcastle United Football League Division One: Champion 1992–93 Fulham Football League Second Division: Champion 1998–99 Manchester City Football League Division One: Champion 2001–02 England Euro 2000 : Group Stages I think the fact you are pretending I'm comparing Keegan & Hiddink as manager's in terms of achievements says it all, your not reslly interested in having a sensible conversation are you? More interested in your ' eeee god look how far out he is '. I was comparing how ANY manager would have felt when Dennis Wise told them the Gonzalez story. I'm sure someone like Hiddink would not accepted stuff like that, like most managers. I think you already knew that, but were still sad enough to dig up every detail of the cv's of both managers. unfortunatly i doubt the gonzalez stroy is a rarity and anyone who thinks managers will have the final say in all comings and goings is naive. IIm sure its not, but this was when the squad was desperately short in certain area's, only a day before the transfer window shut, and when any trust you would have with your DOF would be broken ("Ive got a great player for you"). And Im sure that that any other favour's to other ganets in football at least get returned (where were the south american wonder kids in January?). Its not exactly impressive stuff (to say the least) for any manager who is serious about taking the club forward. thats why i've always asked about the players keegan wanted. he wanted modric, the players agents chose not to, apparently we had a deal set up for derdiyok which keegan stopped, guthrie he got, bassong was wises deal when he wasn't playing then keegans when he was doing well, rumours persist over schweinsteiger, would all have been well had he signed ? if so, the story goes he just decided to stay in germany after agreeing terms etc, keegan seemed very happy about gutierrez and confused about coloccini. until we know about the way other players were brought in and who keegan actually wanted then to me it looks like yes, keegan was correct in his constructive dismissal but the vast majority of other managers put up with similar and understand it as part of the job. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benwell Lad Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 Look, those people on here who cannot see the woods for the trees (and I dont have to name them) need to understand several points here. Ashley has admitted to the mistakes and is trying to rectify them The previous regime took this club to the brink of oblivion. They have to share the blame. Ashley is trying to put the club on a sound financial footing and I, for one, will be glad to see the back of these so called superstars who have been holding the club for ransom for years. Rome wasnt built in a day, or in our case, rebuilt. Ashley seems to have decided to keep the club. Love him or hate him, he has backed his current manager and we have had an unexpectedly excellent season. Maybe he has turned the corner and promotion being achieved against everyones expectations. Crucial period will be next season to see whether we can build on it. I am no Ashley supporter but I find the one eyed opinions of some on this thread to be childish, lacking in knowledge and simply downright unsupportive of the club. Simple answer to this, if you dont like it, go and support someone else, maybe like Leeds or Middlesbrough, perhaps even Portsmouth, Palace, Chester City, Luton, Hull City or the plethera of other clubs facing financial meltdown in the years to come. We were so close under Shepherd and like it or not, Ashley saved our bacon...............fact. he had a chance to rectify his mistakes when he appointed KK again but didn't support him. I imagine quite a lot of people have supported Newcastle for many years, watch them every game home and away, and aren't about to stop So what mistakes had he made before appointing Keegan? what planet do you come from ? So you can't think of any, then? malandro listed some. Paying big wages and moaning about it later too. What do you think of him losing KK and what do you think of the quality of our recent signings, on long contracts Ashley's first big mistake was appointing Keegan manager. Recent signings weren't bad at all, given the circs, and none of them are on particularly long contracts. Allows them a chance in the PL, with a two years left on the contract if we want to sell them on at that point. No, Ashleys mistake was not in appointing Keegan, but in the shameful, deceitful way he treated him. How can anyone trust him or believe a word he says after that? I'd say Keegan was the one who it's difficult to trust. It's interesting that there doesn't seem to have been a stampede for his managerial services, since he left. Legendary player and great manager but I agree just a bit too "sugary sweet nice" to fully trust. Always loved wooing the masses with his emotional England/Scouser/Geordie thing but ultimately proved that like the rest of them he was only in it for himself and the money. You big cynic. What happened? Were you let down and hurt in the past? he didn't look down his nose at fans as though they were something dirty he'd trod on like some previous leaders or insult us the way others (supposedly our own) did. He sat with the fans, drank with the fans and genuinely seemed to want the same as us :'( You must love that thread the way you keep dragging it up, and usually quote bits out of context or miss a question mark or something to suit your purposes. Have you got it pinned up on your wall ? You really are a sad f*ck Kenneth. BTW that post was written to be controversial and stimulate debate, and although I can't remember what I actually wrote (I'm sure you'll be able to remind me) I seem to remember saying Ashley was the only owner/chairman in my time who had put money into the club rather than taking it out. Westwood was the first chairman I remember and a deeply unpopular one at that, Seymour, McKeag etc theresafter, SJH was probably the pick of the bunch - but lo and behold he went and facilitated the sell out to Ashley whom he thought was the right man to take Newcastle forward. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UV Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 4. His appontment of Wise and Co. may have been unwise under Keergan but could have worked under a continental coach, someone like Hiddink or Hitzfeld. LLLO, could you also post up Hitzfeld's record please, I guess the point was to somehow show how them continentals would have loved to have worked under ex Championship and then League 1 manager Dennis Wise, but I'm not quite sure how yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Liam Liam O Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 Can I ask these people who dont trust Keegan, how we're you feeling when he went? When everything kicked off, at the Hull game etc? Do you know the opinion around that time he'd been treated like crap has been proved correct? Have you read the tribunal report? Do you think Hiddink would have been happy when Dennis Wise tells him to look at a great player on Youtube, the clips are rubbish, then Mr Wise tells him the quality of the player is actually irrelevant, that he just wants to do a favour for an agent? On the second last day of the transfer window, thats what your DOF is busy doing? What a fantastic comparison Hiddink PSV Eredivisie Winner : 198687, 198788, 198889, 200203, 200405, 200506 KNVB Cup Winner : 1988, 1989, 1990, 2005 European Cup Winner : 1988 Real Madrid Intercontinental Cup Winner : 1998 Chelsea FA Cup Winner (1): 2009 Netherlands UEFA Euro 1996 Quarter Finals 1998 FIFA World Cup Fourth Place South Korea 2002 FIFA World Cup Fourth Place Australia 2006 FIFA World Cup Second Round Russia UEFA Euro 2008 Semi Final Keegan Newcastle United Football League Division One: Champion 199293 Fulham Football League Second Division: Champion 199899 Manchester City Football League Division One: Champion 200102 England Euro 2000 : Group Stages I think the fact you are pretending I'm comparing Keegan & Hiddink as manager's in terms of achievements says it all, your not reslly interested in having a sensible conversation are you? More interested in your ' eeee god look how far out he is '. I was comparing how ANY manager would have felt when Dennis Wise told them the Gonzalez story. I'm sure someone like Hiddink would not accepted stuff like that, like most managers. I think you already knew that, but were still sad enough to dig up every detail of the cv's of both managers. Why did you compare his reaction to what you suppose Hiddink's would be then? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Liam Liam O Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 4. His appontment of Wise and Co. may have been unwise under Keergan but could have worked under a continental coach, someone like Hiddink or Hitzfeld. LLLO, could you also post up Hitzfeld's record please, I guess the point was to somehow show how them continentals would have loved to have worked under ex Championship and then League 1 manager Dennis Wise, but I'm not quite sure how yet. No. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timnufc22 Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 Can I ask these people who dont trust Keegan, how we're you feeling when he went? When everything kicked off, at the Hull game etc? Do you know the opinion around that time he'd been treated like crap has been proved correct? Have you read the tribunal report? Do you think Hiddink would have been happy when Dennis Wise tells him to look at a great player on Youtube, the clips are rubbish, then Mr Wise tells him the quality of the player is actually irrelevant, that he just wants to do a favour for an agent? On the second last day of the transfer window, thats what your DOF is busy doing? What a fantastic comparison Hiddink Because its not about managerial ability, its about standards and being lied to, so any man worth his salt wouldnt have been impressed with what was going on, obvious really, but I assume you already know that too? PSV Eredivisie Winner : 1986–87, 1987–88, 1988–89, 2002–03, 2004–05, 2005–06 KNVB Cup Winner : 1988, 1989, 1990, 2005 European Cup Winner : 1988 Real Madrid Intercontinental Cup Winner : 1998 Chelsea FA Cup Winner (1): 2009 Netherlands UEFA Euro 1996 Quarter Finals 1998 FIFA World Cup Fourth Place South Korea 2002 FIFA World Cup Fourth Place Australia 2006 FIFA World Cup Second Round Russia UEFA Euro 2008 Semi Final Keegan Newcastle United Football League Division One: Champion 1992–93 Fulham Football League Second Division: Champion 1998–99 Manchester City Football League Division One: Champion 2001–02 England Euro 2000 : Group Stages I think the fact you are pretending I'm comparing Keegan & Hiddink as manager's in terms of achievements says it all, your not reslly interested in having a sensible conversation are you? More interested in your ' eeee god look how far out he is '. I was comparing how ANY manager would have felt when Dennis Wise told them the Gonzalez story. I'm sure someone like Hiddink would not accepted stuff like that, like most managers. I think you already knew that, but were still sad enough to dig up every detail of the cv's of both managers. Why did you compare his reaction to what you suppose Hiddink's would be then? Because its not about managerial ability, its about standards and being lied to, so any man worth his salt wouldnt have been impressed with what was going on, obvious really, but I assume you already know that too? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timnufc22 Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 "Finally, the Club’s own witnesses themselves seemed to be unclear as to what was the position as to who would have the final say and we had, and continue to have, real difficulty in understanding the Club’s position on this point." Thats a shambles really, isnt it. "Although we heard a considerable amount of evidence as to events which took place in the months which followed Mr Keegan’s appointment, in view of our conclusions, we can proceed at once to the events which culminated in Mr Keegan’s resignation on 4 September 2008." It would be interesting to know which events they were. " In any event, it is clear that the “final final straw” occurred on 4 September when the Club handed to him the letter to which we have referred above in which it made it clear that were he to remain at the Club he would still not have the final say." For Keegan to stay at the club at the point, he would've had to be happy to be Dennis Wise's & Ashley's puppet, and lie to the fans week in week out, hense his position untenable, imo "This was repeated by some of the Club’s witnesses (i.e. that the position was that Mr Keegan had the final say save for financial or commercial deals) but some of those same witnesses then asserted later in their evidence that Mr Keegan never had the final say and Mr Wise was not prepared to accept that Mr Keegan ever had the final say, even apart from financial and commercials deals. This lack of clarity, indeed confusion, in the understanding of the Club’s own representatives as to this critical issue makes it, in our view, even less likely that it would and should have been clear to Mr Keegan from what he was told at the meeting on 16 January 2008 that he would not have the final say. " With Gutierez, Collocini, and Xisco, perhaps Dennis Wise simply classed them as his signings (and him being in control) with Keegan giving the ok on the terms of being relativley impressed enough with what he had saw and on the basis that other players he himself had mind himself would also be brought to the club before the deadline shut. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Liam Liam O Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 Can I ask these people who dont trust Keegan, how we're you feeling when he went? When everything kicked off, at the Hull game etc? Do you know the opinion around that time he'd been treated like crap has been proved correct? Have you read the tribunal report? Do you think Hiddink would have been happy when Dennis Wise tells him to look at a great player on Youtube, the clips are rubbish, then Mr Wise tells him the quality of the player is actually irrelevant, that he just wants to do a favour for an agent? On the second last day of the transfer window, thats what your DOF is busy doing? What a fantastic comparison Hiddink Because its not about managerial ability, its about standards and being lied to, so any man worth his salt wouldnt have been impressed with what was going on, obvious really, but I assume you already know that too? PSV Eredivisie Winner : 198687, 198788, 198889, 200203, 200405, 200506 KNVB Cup Winner : 1988, 1989, 1990, 2005 European Cup Winner : 1988 Real Madrid Intercontinental Cup Winner : 1998 Chelsea FA Cup Winner (1): 2009 Netherlands UEFA Euro 1996 Quarter Finals 1998 FIFA World Cup Fourth Place South Korea 2002 FIFA World Cup Fourth Place Australia 2006 FIFA World Cup Second Round Russia UEFA Euro 2008 Semi Final Keegan Newcastle United Football League Division One: Champion 199293 Fulham Football League Second Division: Champion 199899 Manchester City Football League Division One: Champion 200102 England Euro 2000 : Group Stages I think the fact you are pretending I'm comparing Keegan & Hiddink as manager's in terms of achievements says it all, your not reslly interested in having a sensible conversation are you? More interested in your ' eeee god look how far out he is '. I was comparing how ANY manager would have felt when Dennis Wise told them the Gonzalez story. I'm sure someone like Hiddink would not accepted stuff like that, like most managers. I think you already knew that, but were still sad enough to dig up every detail of the cv's of both managers. Why did you compare his reaction to what you suppose Hiddink's would be then? Because its not about managerial ability, its about standards and being lied to, so any man worth his salt wouldnt have been impressed with what was going on, obvious really, but I assume you already know that too? There's potentially nothing wrong with the system they wanted to implement. The problem was that they didn't make it clear who had what roles, and that they ultimately appointed the wrong people/personalities into every role in their system. If they wanted a manager who would work under a director of football, Keegan should have been a million miles away from the top of their shortlist. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Liam Liam O Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 "Finally, the Clubs own witnesses themselves seemed to be unclear as to what was the position as to who would have the final say and we had, and continue to have, real difficulty in understanding the Clubs position on this point." Thats a shambles really, isnt it. "Although we heard a considerable amount of evidence as to events which took place in the months which followed Mr Keegans appointment, in view of our conclusions, we can proceed at once to the events which culminated in Mr Keegans resignation on 4 September 2008." It would be interesting to know which events they were. " In any event, it is clear that the final final straw occurred on 4 September when the Club handed to him the letter to which we have referred above in which it made it clear that were he to remain at the Club he would still not have the final say." For Keegan to stay at the club at the point, he would've had to be happy to be Dennis Wise's & Ashley's puppet, and lie to the fans week in week out, hense his position untenable, imo "This was repeated by some of the Clubs witnesses (i.e. that the position was that Mr Keegan had the final say save for financial or commercial deals) but some of those same witnesses then asserted later in their evidence that Mr Keegan never had the final say and Mr Wise was not prepared to accept that Mr Keegan ever had the final say, even apart from financial and commercials deals. This lack of clarity, indeed confusion, in the understanding of the Clubs own representatives as to this critical issue makes it, in our view, even less likely that it would and should have been clear to Mr Keegan from what he was told at the meeting on 16 January 2008 that he would not have the final say. " With Gutierez, Collocini, and Xisco, perhaps Dennis Wise simply classed them as his signings (and him being in control) with Keegan giving the ok on the terms of being relativley impressed enough with what he had saw and on the basis that other players he himself had mind himself would also be brought to the club before the deadline shut. Given what has happened since Keegan left, I don't see any reason why Wise would be particularly helpful to the club at a tribunal hearing mind after being "removed" from his own position. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
quayside Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 Can I ask these people who dont trust Keegan, how we're you feeling when he went? When everything kicked off, at the Hull game etc? Do you know the opinion around that time he'd been treated like crap has been proved correct? Have you read the tribunal report? Do you think Hiddink would have been happy when Dennis Wise tells him to look at a great player on Youtube, the clips are rubbish, then Mr Wise tells him the quality of the player is actually irrelevant, that he just wants to do a favour for an agent? On the second last day of the transfer window, thats what your DOF is busy doing? What a fantastic comparison Hiddink Because its not about managerial ability, its about standards and being lied to, so any man worth his salt wouldnt have been impressed with what was going on, obvious really, but I assume you already know that too? PSV Eredivisie Winner : 1986–87, 1987–88, 1988–89, 2002–03, 2004–05, 2005–06 KNVB Cup Winner : 1988, 1989, 1990, 2005 European Cup Winner : 1988 Real Madrid Intercontinental Cup Winner : 1998 Chelsea FA Cup Winner (1): 2009 Netherlands UEFA Euro 1996 Quarter Finals 1998 FIFA World Cup Fourth Place South Korea 2002 FIFA World Cup Fourth Place Australia 2006 FIFA World Cup Second Round Russia UEFA Euro 2008 Semi Final Keegan Newcastle United Football League Division One: Champion 1992–93 Fulham Football League Second Division: Champion 1998–99 Manchester City Football League Division One: Champion 2001–02 England Euro 2000 : Group Stages I think the fact you are pretending I'm comparing Keegan & Hiddink as manager's in terms of achievements says it all, your not reslly interested in having a sensible conversation are you? More interested in your ' eeee god look how far out he is '. I was comparing how ANY manager would have felt when Dennis Wise told them the Gonzalez story. I'm sure someone like Hiddink would not accepted stuff like that, like most managers. I think you already knew that, but were still sad enough to dig up every detail of the cv's of both managers. Why did you compare his reaction to what you suppose Hiddink's would be then? Because its not about managerial ability, its about standards and being lied to, so any man worth his salt wouldnt have been impressed with what was going on, obvious really, but I assume you already know that too? There's potentially nothing wrong with the system they wanted to implement. The problem was that they didn't make it clear who had what roles, and that they ultimately appointed the wrong people/personalities into every role in their system. If they wanted a manager who would work under a director of football, Keegan should have been a million miles away from the top of their shortlist. Likewise Redknapp. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timnufc22 Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 Can I ask these people who dont trust Keegan, how we're you feeling when he went? When everything kicked off, at the Hull game etc? Do you know the opinion around that time he'd been treated like crap has been proved correct? Have you read the tribunal report? Do you think Hiddink would have been happy when Dennis Wise tells him to look at a great player on Youtube, the clips are rubbish, then Mr Wise tells him the quality of the player is actually irrelevant, that he just wants to do a favour for an agent? On the second last day of the transfer window, thats what your DOF is busy doing? What a fantastic comparison Hiddink Because its not about managerial ability, its about standards and being lied to, so any man worth his salt wouldnt have been impressed with what was going on, obvious really, but I assume you already know that too? PSV Eredivisie Winner : 1986–87, 1987–88, 1988–89, 2002–03, 2004–05, 2005–06 KNVB Cup Winner : 1988, 1989, 1990, 2005 European Cup Winner : 1988 Real Madrid Intercontinental Cup Winner : 1998 Chelsea FA Cup Winner (1): 2009 Netherlands UEFA Euro 1996 Quarter Finals 1998 FIFA World Cup Fourth Place South Korea 2002 FIFA World Cup Fourth Place Australia 2006 FIFA World Cup Second Round Russia UEFA Euro 2008 Semi Final Keegan Newcastle United Football League Division One: Champion 1992–93 Fulham Football League Second Division: Champion 1998–99 Manchester City Football League Division One: Champion 2001–02 England Euro 2000 : Group Stages I think the fact you are pretending I'm comparing Keegan & Hiddink as manager's in terms of achievements says it all, your not reslly interested in having a sensible conversation are you? More interested in your ' eeee god look how far out he is '. I was comparing how ANY manager would have felt when Dennis Wise told them the Gonzalez story. I'm sure someone like Hiddink would not accepted stuff like that, like most managers. I think you already knew that, but were still sad enough to dig up every detail of the cv's of both managers. Why did you compare his reaction to what you suppose Hiddink's would be then? Because its not about managerial ability, its about standards and being lied to, so any man worth his salt wouldnt have been impressed with what was going on, obvious really, but I assume you already know that too? There's potentially nothing wrong with the system they wanted to implement. The problem was that they didn't make it clear who had what roles, and that they ultimately appointed the wrong people/personalities into every role in their system. If they wanted a manager who would work under a director of football, Keegan should have been a million miles away from the top of their shortlist. I agree in general, I'd say the way the they went about the system was terrible (like you say, possiblity because of the wrong people appointed, like Wise) and the lack of respect shown to someone like Keegan was disgraceful. I think the reason Ashley got him was to sell 3 year season tickets and rake in as much merchandise sales as possible, effectively just using his name. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Liam Liam O Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 Can I ask these people who dont trust Keegan, how we're you feeling when he went? When everything kicked off, at the Hull game etc? Do you know the opinion around that time he'd been treated like crap has been proved correct? Have you read the tribunal report? Do you think Hiddink would have been happy when Dennis Wise tells him to look at a great player on Youtube, the clips are rubbish, then Mr Wise tells him the quality of the player is actually irrelevant, that he just wants to do a favour for an agent? On the second last day of the transfer window, thats what your DOF is busy doing? What a fantastic comparison Hiddink Because its not about managerial ability, its about standards and being lied to, so any man worth his salt wouldnt have been impressed with what was going on, obvious really, but I assume you already know that too? PSV Eredivisie Winner : 198687, 198788, 198889, 200203, 200405, 200506 KNVB Cup Winner : 1988, 1989, 1990, 2005 European Cup Winner : 1988 Real Madrid Intercontinental Cup Winner : 1998 Chelsea FA Cup Winner (1): 2009 Netherlands UEFA Euro 1996 Quarter Finals 1998 FIFA World Cup Fourth Place South Korea 2002 FIFA World Cup Fourth Place Australia 2006 FIFA World Cup Second Round Russia UEFA Euro 2008 Semi Final Keegan Newcastle United Football League Division One: Champion 199293 Fulham Football League Second Division: Champion 199899 Manchester City Football League Division One: Champion 200102 England Euro 2000 : Group Stages I think the fact you are pretending I'm comparing Keegan & Hiddink as manager's in terms of achievements says it all, your not reslly interested in having a sensible conversation are you? More interested in your ' eeee god look how far out he is '. I was comparing how ANY manager would have felt when Dennis Wise told them the Gonzalez story. I'm sure someone like Hiddink would not accepted stuff like that, like most managers. I think you already knew that, but were still sad enough to dig up every detail of the cv's of both managers. Why did you compare his reaction to what you suppose Hiddink's would be then? Because its not about managerial ability, its about standards and being lied to, so any man worth his salt wouldnt have been impressed with what was going on, obvious really, but I assume you already know that too? There's potentially nothing wrong with the system they wanted to implement. The problem was that they didn't make it clear who had what roles, and that they ultimately appointed the wrong people/personalities into every role in their system. If they wanted a manager who would work under a director of football, Keegan should have been a million miles away from the top of their shortlist. I agree in general, I'd say the way the they went about the system was terrible (like you say, possiblity because of the wrong people appointed, like Wise) and the lack of respect shown to someone like Keegan was disgraceful. I think the reason Ashley got him was to sell 3 year season tickets and rake in as much merchandise sales as possible, effectively just using his name. I disagree with that last bit, I think he got him in to be the manager, working under the director of football he appointed, he just didn't do a very good job of it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzzieMandias Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 Keegan was a Director of Football once himself, and came into the club knowing that he would be working under that kind of system, so if he had a problem with it he can hardly blame anyone else. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timnufc22 Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 Can I ask these people who dont trust Keegan, how we're you feeling when he went? When everything kicked off, at the Hull game etc? Do you know the opinion around that time he'd been treated like crap has been proved correct? Have you read the tribunal report? Do you think Hiddink would have been happy when Dennis Wise tells him to look at a great player on Youtube, the clips are rubbish, then Mr Wise tells him the quality of the player is actually irrelevant, that he just wants to do a favour for an agent? On the second last day of the transfer window, thats what your DOF is busy doing? What a fantastic comparison Hiddink Because its not about managerial ability, its about standards and being lied to, so any man worth his salt wouldnt have been impressed with what was going on, obvious really, but I assume you already know that too? PSV Eredivisie Winner : 1986–87, 1987–88, 1988–89, 2002–03, 2004–05, 2005–06 KNVB Cup Winner : 1988, 1989, 1990, 2005 European Cup Winner : 1988 Real Madrid Intercontinental Cup Winner : 1998 Chelsea FA Cup Winner (1): 2009 Netherlands UEFA Euro 1996 Quarter Finals 1998 FIFA World Cup Fourth Place South Korea 2002 FIFA World Cup Fourth Place Australia 2006 FIFA World Cup Second Round Russia UEFA Euro 2008 Semi Final Keegan Newcastle United Football League Division One: Champion 1992–93 Fulham Football League Second Division: Champion 1998–99 Manchester City Football League Division One: Champion 2001–02 England Euro 2000 : Group Stages I think the fact you are pretending I'm comparing Keegan & Hiddink as manager's in terms of achievements says it all, your not reslly interested in having a sensible conversation are you? More interested in your ' eeee god look how far out he is '. I was comparing how ANY manager would have felt when Dennis Wise told them the Gonzalez story. I'm sure someone like Hiddink would not accepted stuff like that, like most managers. I think you already knew that, but were still sad enough to dig up every detail of the cv's of both managers. Why did you compare his reaction to what you suppose Hiddink's would be then? Because its not about managerial ability, its about standards and being lied to, so any man worth his salt wouldnt have been impressed with what was going on, obvious really, but I assume you already know that too? There's potentially nothing wrong with the system they wanted to implement. The problem was that they didn't make it clear who had what roles, and that they ultimately appointed the wrong people/personalities into every role in their system. If they wanted a manager who would work under a director of football, Keegan should have been a million miles away from the top of their shortlist. I agree in general, I'd say the way the they went about the system was terrible (like you say, possiblity because of the wrong people appointed, like Wise) and the lack of respect shown to someone like Keegan was disgraceful. I think the reason Ashley got him was to sell 3 year season tickets and rake in as much merchandise sales as possible, effectively just using his name. I disagree with that last bit, I think he got him in to be the manager, working under the director of football he appointed, he just didn't do a very good job of it. Aye fair do's, only he knows for sure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timnufc22 Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 Keegan was a Director of Football once himself, and came into the club knowing that he would be working under that kind of system, so if he had a problem with it he can hardly blame anyone else. The system is can obviously work, the problem people, and Keegan, obviously have is the way the system was carried out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest malandro Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 It is obvious for all to see. Whilst he was largely responsible last season with some bad decisionmaking, the fact that the following has occured leads most people to believe he has learned from his mistakes. He could have reduced the salary commitments further by selling more players.............he didnt. He could have called in the administrators when all was against him....................he didnt He could have refused to back his manager with signings in January..............he didnt He could have refused to pour more money into the club to pay salaries in January.....................he didnt This season has largely been reasonably quiet off the park, wouldnt you say? Less interference and allowing the manager and the players to get on with their jobs, Like I said in my previous post, he has learned a few things and the fruits are there for all to see. Top of the CCC. Allegedly, Middlesbrough were a better run club than us and look where they are in comparison. They will probably not make the play offs. I think a great deal of the clubs problems stemmed from the Shepherd era, especially on the financial side of things and Ashley, for some time now, has been covering those loses. Time will tell whether the improvement continues but I would call ytou a liar if you said to me that you would have expected us to be in the position we are now, if asked for an opinion back in August. Credit where credit is due and the next 12 months will be crucial for this cluib. The start has been made and maybe, just maybe, sensible financial control allied with shrewd signings could see us continue to improve over the next few years. they will have to be shrewd if the reported wage levels are anything to go by, do you think the recent signings are good enough for the premiership, do you know the length of their contracts ? Bob, we wont actually know until we see the likes of Routledge, Williamson etc play in the EPL. What I will say is that the likes of Dann, Johnson at Birmingham, Lescott at City, Baines at Everton and quite a few others, have come from lower divisions and done well in the PL so it is not beyond the realm of mpossibility that our signings will also succeed. Furthermore, if you look at the teams near the bottom of the PL, I dont think any of them are that much better than us, if at all. Also, there are plenty of good quality players around who would more than likely jump at the chance of coming to NUFC at realistic prices and whilst most peoplke on here would like to see Arsenal type football played, realism says that workmanlike performances are the order of the day under Hughton and that hasnt done the likes of Birmingham, Villa, Everton any harm this season at all. Maybe we can see a sim ilar response next season. I've seen these players, I'm not going to watch the smoggies or anybody else, as you are telling people to do, but I don't think they are as good as the players he has sold. What do you think of them ? You are probably right there, to a certain extent. However, the players who left, no doubt, with the undoubted skill they had, failed miserably to mput that skill to good use for the club. Ask yourself, how many have suceeded since they moved! Given, Milner are the only ones I can think of. Viduka retired, Owen spent most of the season benched as did Beye, Martins at Wolfsburg? What has he done there? Even Edgar at Burnley cant get a game there. So, as for their undoubted skill, yes, they were skillful but only when they felt like it which wasnt very bloody often, was it? The players coming in have substantially less salaries, points to prove and who knows yet, maybe huge successes in the PL. I would much rather be top of the CCC at the moment than bottom of the PL. Your comment about managers was very relevant and certainly a major mistake by Ashley last year, which so far, he has learned in his backing of Hughton. I actually think CH will do well next year and believe he deserves a great deal of credit for this season's success. Ashley put his faith in him and he has rewarded that faith, so far. Lets look ahead and not back. Ashley got lucky with Hughton, end of. If he had so much faith in him, why wait until the end of October to give him the permanent job? It's Hughton and the players who stayed who have "steered" us back in the right direction. Yes, Ashley has probably kept us on course by coming up with sensible money in January, but he would have been a complete moron not to see that minor investment in our squad would result in promotion and all its benefits. So, you have basically admitted he made the right decision to appoint Hughton and that he is not a moron after all. What is your point or are you another one who is living on past history? You just don’t get it do you. Ashley gambled on buying a football club without checking the books and lost. He gambled on appointing Keegan and lost. He gambled on flogging players last season and staying up and lost. He gambled on appointing Shearer and lost. He gambled on Hughton and got lucky. There’s zero evidence to suggest he has stopped gambling, and zero evidence his luck won’t desert him again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 Shepherd fucked us. Ashley fucked us more. Keegan fucked off. Thread over? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 Shepherd f***ed us. Ashley f***ed us more. Keegan f***ed off. Thread over? We're heading in the right direction. Thread over. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now