Is Mike Ashley steering Newcastle United in the right direction?

[Happy Face]

If you actually go through this thread you have 2 basic sides, people vehementely against Ashley who have no interest in giving Ashley any credit whatsoever or even acknowledging anyhting creditable he's done and people who are trying to point out the more balanced view that Ashley has actually done some good which is obviously offset with the bad he's done.

 

There is absolutely no one saying Ashley has done a brilliant job yet the majority of those against him are admament he's done nothing whatsoever that is credit worthy. One of those groups seems far less rational than the other.

 

Dont Chelsea owe £600m to Roman? Not sure exactly but dont the bin dippers owe similar to external creditors? The performaces of the respective teams are irrelavant when you actually look at the dynamics of the debt, that is what many people are trying to point out when they talk about Ashley and the loan he's given to the club.

 

 

 

I'm vehemently opposed to Ashley, but I've given him credit for lots of stuff...some in this thread.  To argue otherwise would be to lose any credibility.  Llambias loses all credibility when he's in the paper slagging off fans that criticise his many mistakes and insisting Ashley has been a godsend.

 

Roman has cancelled all the loans at Chelsea (or turned the debt into equity, whatever you want to call it).  So have the Man City owners.  And Sunderland.  If Ashley did that it would be another good move I'd give him credit for.

[Liam Liam Liam O]

If you actually go through this thread you have 2 basic sides, people vehementely against Ashley who have no interest in giving Ashley any credit whatsoever or even acknowledging anyhting creditable he's done and people who are trying to point out the more balanced view that Ashley has actually done some good which is obviously offset with the bad he's done.

 

There is absolutely no one saying Ashley has done a brilliant job yet the majority of those against him are admament he's done nothing whatsoever that is credit worthy. One of those groups seems far less rational than the other.

 

Dont Chelsea owe £600m to Roman? Not sure exactly but dont the bin dippers owe similar to external creditors? The performaces of the respective teams are irrelavant when you actually look at the dynamics of the debt, that is what many people are trying to point out when they talk about Ashley and the loan he's given to the club.

 

 

 

I'm vehemently opposed to Ashley, but I've given him credit for lots of stuff...some in this thread. To argue otherwise would be to lose any credibility. Llambias loses all credibility when he's in the paper slagging off fans that criticise his many mistakes and insisting Ashley has been a godsend.

 

Roman has cancelled all the loans at Chelsea (or turned the debt into equity, whatever you want to call it). So have the Man City owners. And Sunderland. If Ashley did that it would be another good move I'd give him credit for.

 

As would I.

 

He'd have to be absolutely mental to do it at present though, wouldn't you agree?

[Happy Face]

If you actually go through this thread you have 2 basic sides, people vehementely against Ashley who have no interest in giving Ashley any credit whatsoever or even acknowledging anyhting creditable he's done and people who are trying to point out the more balanced view that Ashley has actually done some good which is obviously offset with the bad he's done.

 

There is absolutely no one saying Ashley has done a brilliant job yet the majority of those against him are admament he's done nothing whatsoever that is credit worthy. One of those groups seems far less rational than the other.

 

Dont Chelsea owe £600m to Roman? Not sure exactly but dont the bin dippers owe similar to external creditors? The performaces of the respective teams are irrelavant when you actually look at the dynamics of the debt, that is what many people are trying to point out when they talk about Ashley and the loan he's given to the club.

 

 

 

I'm vehemently opposed to Ashley, but I've given him credit for lots of stuff...some in this thread.  To argue otherwise would be to lose any credibility.  Llambias loses all credibility when he's in the paper slagging off fans that criticise his many mistakes and insisting Ashley has been a godsend.

 

Roman has cancelled all the loans at Chelsea (or turned the debt into equity, whatever you want to call it).  So have the Man City owners.  And Sunderland.  If Ashley did that it would be another good move I'd give him credit for.

 

As would I.

 

He'd have to be absolutely mental to do it at present though, wouldn't you agree?

 

I'm not sure why.  Am I being dense?

 

When would be a better time?

 

It would convince an AWFUL lot more people that he might actually be good for the club, is ensuring it's financial stability and push a few more season tickets/shirts etc.

[Liam Liam Liam O]

If you actually go through this thread you have 2 basic sides, people vehementely against Ashley who have no interest in giving Ashley any credit whatsoever or even acknowledging anyhting creditable he's done and people who are trying to point out the more balanced view that Ashley has actually done some good which is obviously offset with the bad he's done.

 

There is absolutely no one saying Ashley has done a brilliant job yet the majority of those against him are admament he's done nothing whatsoever that is credit worthy. One of those groups seems far less rational than the other.

 

Dont Chelsea owe £600m to Roman? Not sure exactly but dont the bin dippers owe similar to external creditors? The performaces of the respective teams are irrelavant when you actually look at the dynamics of the debt, that is what many people are trying to point out when they talk about Ashley and the loan he's given to the club.

 

 

 

I'm vehemently opposed to Ashley, but I've given him credit for lots of stuff...some in this thread.  To argue otherwise would be to lose any credibility.  Llambias loses all credibility when he's in the paper slagging off fans that criticise his many mistakes and insisting Ashley has been a godsend.

 

Roman has cancelled all the loans at Chelsea (or turned the debt into equity, whatever you want to call it).  So have the Man City owners.  And Sunderland.  If Ashley did that it would be another good move I'd give him credit for.

 

As would I.

 

He'd have to be absolutely mental to do it at present though, wouldn't you agree?

 

I'm not sure why.  Am I being dense?

 

When would be a better time?

 

It would convince an AWFUL lot more people that he might actually be good for the club, is ensuring it's financial stability and push a few more season tickets/shirts etc.

 

If we didn't get promoted (which looks less likely by the week obviously) he'd be at risk of losing the lot if he converted it to equity & administration became the only option, same with if we go up & come straight back down (although obviously the ball's in his court to address that risk in the summer).

 

Even at Chelsea the debt wasn't cleared straight away until they'd firmly established their continued revenue streams from Champions League football and top 4 finishes.

 

I also know what you mean about supporters being convinced if he converted it all to equity, but at the same time there'd still be those who would say he had only done it to make it easier to sell, when in reality it makes little difference at all.

[Guest malandro]

If you actually go through this thread you have 2 basic sides, people vehementely against Ashley who have no interest in giving Ashley any credit whatsoever or even acknowledging anyhting creditable he's done and people who are trying to point out the more balanced view that Ashley has actually done some good which is obviously offset with the bad he's done.

 

There is absolutely no one saying Ashley has done a brilliant job yet the majority of those against him are admament he's done nothing whatsoever that is credit worthy. One of those groups seems far less rational than the other.

 

Dont Chelsea owe £600m to Roman? Not sure exactly but dont the bin dippers owe similar to external creditors? The performaces of the respective teams are irrelavant when you actually look at the dynamics of the debt, that is what many people are trying to point out when they talk about Ashley and the loan he's given to the club.

 

 

I’d say it was more a case of those who are confusing our ‘successes’ this season with a well run club and think Ashley has turned into Jack Walker because we bought a few bargain basement players in January, and those who want to see clear tangible evidence the club is heading in the right direction before they can forget about three years of half truths and abject mismanagement. 

 

You might think being top of this league is proof we’re heading in the right direction, but others think it’s a fluke and in the absence of any hard facts about what Ashley’s plan was last summer you’re in no position to say what’s rational and what isn’t. Ultimately time will settle this debate, and until it’s had its say perhaps you should get off your high horse.

 

[Happy Face]

If you actually go through this thread you have 2 basic sides, people vehementely against Ashley who have no interest in giving Ashley any credit whatsoever or even acknowledging anyhting creditable he's done and people who are trying to point out the more balanced view that Ashley has actually done some good which is obviously offset with the bad he's done.

 

There is absolutely no one saying Ashley has done a brilliant job yet the majority of those against him are admament he's done nothing whatsoever that is credit worthy. One of those groups seems far less rational than the other.

 

Dont Chelsea owe £600m to Roman? Not sure exactly but dont the bin dippers owe similar to external creditors? The performaces of the respective teams are irrelavant when you actually look at the dynamics of the debt, that is what many people are trying to point out when they talk about Ashley and the loan he's given to the club.

 

 

 

I'm vehemently opposed to Ashley, but I've given him credit for lots of stuff...some in this thread.  To argue otherwise would be to lose any credibility.  Llambias loses all credibility when he's in the paper slagging off fans that criticise his many mistakes and insisting Ashley has been a godsend.

 

Roman has cancelled all the loans at Chelsea (or turned the debt into equity, whatever you want to call it).  So have the Man City owners.  And Sunderland.  If Ashley did that it would be another good move I'd give him credit for.

 

As would I.

 

He'd have to be absolutely mental to do it at present though, wouldn't you agree?

 

I'm not sure why.  Am I being dense?

 

When would be a better time?

 

It would convince an AWFUL lot more people that he might actually be good for the club, is ensuring it's financial stability and push a few more season tickets/shirts etc.

 

If we didn't get promoted (which looks less likely by the week obviously) he'd be at risk of losing the lot if he converted it to equity & administration became the only option, same with if we go up & come straight back down (although obviously the ball's in his court to address that risk in the summer).

 

Even at Chelsea the debt wasn't cleared straight away until they'd firmly established their continued revenue streams from Champions League football and top 4 finishes.

 

I also know what you mean about supporters being convinced if he converted it all to equity, but at the same time there'd still be those who would say he had only done it to make it easier to sell, when in reality it makes little difference at all.

 

Aye, without paying interest it makes no odds on the balance sheet.

 

I understand your argument, I was just thinking he says he was willing to forego the loans if he was offered £80m anyway.

[madras]

If you actually go through this thread you have 2 basic sides, people vehementely against Ashley who have no interest in giving Ashley any credit whatsoever or even acknowledging anyhting creditable he's done and people who are trying to point out the more balanced view that Ashley has actually done some good which is obviously offset with the bad he's done.

 

There is absolutely no one saying Ashley has done a brilliant job yet the majority of those against him are admament he's done nothing whatsoever that is credit worthy. One of those groups seems far less rational than the other.

 

Dont Chelsea owe £600m to Roman? Not sure exactly but dont the bin dippers owe similar to external creditors? The performaces of the respective teams are irrelavant when you actually look at the dynamics of the debt, that is what many people are trying to point out when they talk about Ashley and the loan he's given to the club.

 

 

I’d say it was more a case of those who are confusing our ‘successes’ this season with a well run club and think Ashley has turned into Jack Walker because we bought a few bargain basement players in January, and those who want to see clear tangible evidence the club is heading in the right direction before they can forget about three years of half truths and abject mismanagement. 

 

You might think being top of this league is proof we’re heading in the right direction, but others think it’s a fluke and in the absence of any hard facts about what Ashley’s plan was last summer you’re in no position to say what’s rational and what isn’t. Ultimately time will settle this debate, and until it’s had its say perhaps you should get off your high horse.

 

paragraph 1........what a few are saying is that without him we may not be here as the club was well on the way to being f***ed before he worked out his calculations on the back of a beermat somewhere.

 

paeagraph 2..........if he should get off his high horse as time will settle this debate then maybe you ought to put your poisoned dagger away aswell.

[Liam Liam Liam O]

If you actually go through this thread you have 2 basic sides, people vehementely against Ashley who have no interest in giving Ashley any credit whatsoever or even acknowledging anyhting creditable he's done and people who are trying to point out the more balanced view that Ashley has actually done some good which is obviously offset with the bad he's done.

 

There is absolutely no one saying Ashley has done a brilliant job yet the majority of those against him are admament he's done nothing whatsoever that is credit worthy. One of those groups seems far less rational than the other.

 

Dont Chelsea owe £600m to Roman? Not sure exactly but dont the bin dippers owe similar to external creditors? The performaces of the respective teams are irrelavant when you actually look at the dynamics of the debt, that is what many people are trying to point out when they talk about Ashley and the loan he's given to the club.

 

 

 

I'm vehemently opposed to Ashley, but I've given him credit for lots of stuff...some in this thread. To argue otherwise would be to lose any credibility. Llambias loses all credibility when he's in the paper slagging off fans that criticise his many mistakes and insisting Ashley has been a godsend.

 

Roman has cancelled all the loans at Chelsea (or turned the debt into equity, whatever you want to call it). So have the Man City owners. And Sunderland. If Ashley did that it would be another good move I'd give him credit for.

 

As would I.

 

He'd have to be absolutely mental to do it at present though, wouldn't you agree?

 

I'm not sure why. Am I being dense?

 

When would be a better time?

 

It would convince an AWFUL lot more people that he might actually be good for the club, is ensuring it's financial stability and push a few more season tickets/shirts etc.

 

If we didn't get promoted (which looks less likely by the week obviously) he'd be at risk of losing the lot if he converted it to equity & administration became the only option, same with if we go up & come straight back down (although obviously the ball's in his court to address that risk in the summer).

 

Even at Chelsea the debt wasn't cleared straight away until they'd firmly established their continued revenue streams from Champions League football and top 4 finishes.

 

I also know what you mean about supporters being convinced if he converted it all to equity, but at the same time there'd still be those who would say he had only done it to make it easier to sell, when in reality it makes little difference at all.

 

Aye, without paying interest it makes no odds on the balance sheet.

 

I understand your argument, I was just thinking he says he was willing to forego the loans if he was offered £80m anyway.

 

It's a bit like balancing your own pension fund. You could put it all in high risk investments (ie shares in NUFC in Ashley's case) or you could spread your risk and put some in lower risk investments (the secured loans he's likely to have made to the club).

 

Selling the club now/in the summer is like taking your pension when the markets are on the floor (ie he takes the low £80m figure & cuts his losses). However, if he waits until the markets improve (ie. promotion / the value of his pension fund rises) his higher risk shares will increase in value without any increase in the value of his lower risk loans.

 

Now that's fucking boring.

[fredbob]

If you actually go through this thread you have 2 basic sides, people vehementely against Ashley who have no interest in giving Ashley any credit whatsoever or even acknowledging anyhting creditable he's done and people who are trying to point out the more balanced view that Ashley has actually done some good which is obviously offset with the bad he's done.

 

There is absolutely no one saying Ashley has done a brilliant job yet the majority of those against him are admament he's done nothing whatsoever that is credit worthy. One of those groups seems far less rational than the other.

 

Dont Chelsea owe £600m to Roman? Not sure exactly but dont the bin dippers owe similar to external creditors? The performaces of the respective teams are irrelavant when you actually look at the dynamics of the debt, that is what many people are trying to point out when they talk about Ashley and the loan he's given to the club.

 

 

I’d say it was more a case of those who are confusing our ‘successes’ this season with a well run club and think Ashley has turned into Jack Walker because we bought a few bargain basement players in January, and those who want to see clear tangible evidence the club is heading in the right direction before they can forget about three years of half truths and abject mismanagement. 

 

You might think being top of this league is proof we’re heading in the right direction, but others think it’s a fluke and in the absence of any hard facts about what Ashley’s plan was last summer you’re in no position to say what’s rational and what isn’t. Ultimately time will settle this debate, and until it’s had its say perhaps you should get off your high horse.

 

 

Ouch!

 

I wont count this season as a success. But I will acknowledge the good that has come out from this season, for example the lower dwage bill, the stability off the field, the decent performances, the performances of our players, the fact that we've kept some very good players when it would of been easier to sell them, the transfer window which seemed to be organised and applied a criteria which the club had been harping on about for a couple of years.

 

You're right, time is  the decider here but look at the state of your post, complete negativity throughout it, not one iota of credit, i'll give you a guess which group you belong in. And for what its worth I know a lot of what I have said is symptomtic of relegation and therefore not to Ashleys credit, but if you look a little bit closer you'll see a few things which are to his credit.

 

If its alright with you I think I'll stay on my "high horse".

[Guest malandro]

If you actually go through this thread you have 2 basic sides, people vehementely against Ashley who have no interest in giving Ashley any credit whatsoever or even acknowledging anyhting creditable he's done and people who are trying to point out the more balanced view that Ashley has actually done some good which is obviously offset with the bad he's done.

 

There is absolutely no one saying Ashley has done a brilliant job yet the majority of those against him are admament he's done nothing whatsoever that is credit worthy. One of those groups seems far less rational than the other.

 

Dont Chelsea owe £600m to Roman? Not sure exactly but dont the bin dippers owe similar to external creditors? The performaces of the respective teams are irrelavant when you actually look at the dynamics of the debt, that is what many people are trying to point out when they talk about Ashley and the loan he's given to the club.

 

 

I’d say it was more a case of those who are confusing our ‘successes’ this season with a well run club and think Ashley has turned into Jack Walker because we bought a few bargain basement players in January, and those who want to see clear tangible evidence the club is heading in the right direction before they can forget about three years of half truths and abject mismanagement. 

 

You might think being top of this league is proof we’re heading in the right direction, but others think it’s a fluke and in the absence of any hard facts about what Ashley’s plan was last summer you’re in no position to say what’s rational and what isn’t. Ultimately time will settle this debate, and until it’s had its say perhaps you should get off your high horse.

 

paragraph 1........what a few are saying is that without him we may not be here as the club was well on the way to being f***ed before he worked out his calculations on the back of a beermat somewhere.

 

paeagraph 2..........if he should get off his high horse as time will settle this debate then maybe you ought to put your poisoned dagger away aswell.

I don’t have a poisoned dagger. I have point of view you don’t like.

[madras]

If you actually go through this thread you have 2 basic sides, people vehementely against Ashley who have no interest in giving Ashley any credit whatsoever or even acknowledging anyhting creditable he's done and people who are trying to point out the more balanced view that Ashley has actually done some good which is obviously offset with the bad he's done.

 

There is absolutely no one saying Ashley has done a brilliant job yet the majority of those against him are admament he's done nothing whatsoever that is credit worthy. One of those groups seems far less rational than the other.

 

Dont Chelsea owe £600m to Roman? Not sure exactly but dont the bin dippers owe similar to external creditors? The performaces of the respective teams are irrelavant when you actually look at the dynamics of the debt, that is what many people are trying to point out when they talk about Ashley and the loan he's given to the club.

 

 

I’d say it was more a case of those who are confusing our ‘successes’ this season with a well run club and think Ashley has turned into Jack Walker because we bought a few bargain basement players in January, and those who want to see clear tangible evidence the club is heading in the right direction before they can forget about three years of half truths and abject mismanagement. 

 

You might think being top of this league is proof we’re heading in the right direction, but others think it’s a fluke and in the absence of any hard facts about what Ashley’s plan was last summer you’re in no position to say what’s rational and what isn’t. Ultimately time will settle this debate, and until it’s had its say perhaps you should get off your high horse.

 

paragraph 1........what a few are saying is that without him we may not be here as the club was well on the way to being f***ed before he worked out his calculations on the back of a beermat somewhere.

 

paeagraph 2..........if he should get off his high horse as time will settle this debate then maybe you ought to put your poisoned dagger away aswell.

I don’t have a poisoned dagger. I have point of view you don’t like.

so why should he get off his high horse because he has a pointof view you dont like. you are the one that said time would tell.

[Guest malandro]

If you actually go through this thread you have 2 basic sides, people vehementely against Ashley who have no interest in giving Ashley any credit whatsoever or even acknowledging anyhting creditable he's done and people who are trying to point out the more balanced view that Ashley has actually done some good which is obviously offset with the bad he's done.

 

There is absolutely no one saying Ashley has done a brilliant job yet the majority of those against him are admament he's done nothing whatsoever that is credit worthy. One of those groups seems far less rational than the other.

 

Dont Chelsea owe £600m to Roman? Not sure exactly but dont the bin dippers owe similar to external creditors? The performaces of the respective teams are irrelavant when you actually look at the dynamics of the debt, that is what many people are trying to point out when they talk about Ashley and the loan he's given to the club.

 

 

I’d say it was more a case of those who are confusing our ‘successes’ this season with a well run club and think Ashley has turned into Jack Walker because we bought a few bargain basement players in January, and those who want to see clear tangible evidence the club is heading in the right direction before they can forget about three years of half truths and abject mismanagement. 

 

You might think being top of this league is proof we’re heading in the right direction, but others think it’s a fluke and in the absence of any hard facts about what Ashley’s plan was last summer you’re in no position to say what’s rational and what isn’t. Ultimately time will settle this debate, and until it’s had its say perhaps you should get off your high horse.

 

 

Ouch!

 

I wont count this season as a success. But I will acknowledge the good that has come out from this season, for example the lower dwage bill, the stability off the field, the decent performances, the performances of our players, the fact that we've kept some very good players when it would of been easier to sell them, the transfer window which seemed to be organised and applied a criteria which the club had been harping on about for a couple of years.

 

You're right, time is  the decider here but look at the state of your post, complete negativity throughout it, not one iota of credit, i'll give you a guess which group you belong in. And for what its worth I know a lot of what I have said is symptomtic of relegation and therefore not to Ashleys credit, but if you look a little bit closer you'll see a few things which are to his credit.

 

If its alright with you I think I'll stay on my "high horse".

Do what you like. I do have negative view of the way things are going, but it’s no more irrational than believing he doesn’t want his money back. If he didn’t value money very highly he wouldn’t have become very wealthy.

[fredbob]

I wonder how many pages we would have if the title was "Is the club going in the right direction?"

 

Ultimately we either are or aren't.

 

 

[Guest malandro]

If you actually go through this thread you have 2 basic sides, people vehementely against Ashley who have no interest in giving Ashley any credit whatsoever or even acknowledging anyhting creditable he's done and people who are trying to point out the more balanced view that Ashley has actually done some good which is obviously offset with the bad he's done.

 

There is absolutely no one saying Ashley has done a brilliant job yet the majority of those against him are admament he's done nothing whatsoever that is credit worthy. One of those groups seems far less rational than the other.

 

Dont Chelsea owe £600m to Roman? Not sure exactly but dont the bin dippers owe similar to external creditors? The performaces of the respective teams are irrelavant when you actually look at the dynamics of the debt, that is what many people are trying to point out when they talk about Ashley and the loan he's given to the club.

 

 

I’d say it was more a case of those who are confusing our ‘successes’ this season with a well run club and think Ashley has turned into Jack Walker because we bought a few bargain basement players in January, and those who want to see clear tangible evidence the club is heading in the right direction before they can forget about three years of half truths and abject mismanagement. 

 

You might think being top of this league is proof we’re heading in the right direction, but others think it’s a fluke and in the absence of any hard facts about what Ashley’s plan was last summer you’re in no position to say what’s rational and what isn’t. Ultimately time will settle this debate, and until it’s had its say perhaps you should get off your high horse.

 

paragraph 1........what a few are saying is that without him we may not be here as the club was well on the way to being f***ed before he worked out his calculations on the back of a beermat somewhere.

 

paeagraph 2..........if he should get off his high horse as time will settle this debate then maybe you ought to put your poisoned dagger away aswell.

I don’t have a poisoned dagger. I have point of view you don’t like.

so why should he get off his high horse because he has a pointof view you dont like. you are the one that said time would tell.

It’s not his POV on the fortunes of NUFC I dislike, but the misguided self regard that dismisses anyone who doesn’t share it as irrational.

[fredbob]

If you actually go through this thread you have 2 basic sides, people vehementely against Ashley who have no interest in giving Ashley any credit whatsoever or even acknowledging anyhting creditable he's done and people who are trying to point out the more balanced view that Ashley has actually done some good which is obviously offset with the bad he's done.

 

There is absolutely no one saying Ashley has done a brilliant job yet the majority of those against him are admament he's done nothing whatsoever that is credit worthy. One of those groups seems far less rational than the other.

 

Dont Chelsea owe £600m to Roman? Not sure exactly but dont the bin dippers owe similar to external creditors? The performaces of the respective teams are irrelavant when you actually look at the dynamics of the debt, that is what many people are trying to point out when they talk about Ashley and the loan he's given to the club.

 

 

Id say it was more a case of those who are confusing our successes this season with a well run club and think Ashley has turned into Jack Walker because we bought a few bargain basement players in January, and those who want to see clear tangible evidence the club is heading in the right direction before they can forget about three years of half truths and abject mismanagement.

 

You might think being top of this league is proof were heading in the right direction, but others think its a fluke and in the absence of any hard facts about what Ashleys plan was last summer youre in no position to say whats rational and what isnt. Ultimately time will settle this debate, and until its had its say perhaps you should get off your high horse.

 

paragraph 1........what a few are saying is that without him we may not be here as the club was well on the way to being f***ed before he worked out his calculations on the back of a beermat somewhere.

 

paeagraph 2..........if he should get off his high horse as time will settle this debate then maybe you ought to put your poisoned dagger away aswell.

I dont have a poisoned dagger. I have point of view you dont like.

so why should he get off his high horse because he has a pointof view you dont like. you are the one that said time would tell.

Its not his POV on the fortunes of NUFC I dislike, but the misguided self regard that dismisses anyone who doesnt share it as irrational.

 

Is that post supposed to be ironic?

 

You might as well give yourself credit for it becasue Ive already called it.

 

As for my beliefs that those who dont share my view are irrational, i say so becasue I see this argument as going one of 2 ways:

 

i) yes the club is going in the right direction, some credit goes to Ashley, not much mind

ii) no, the club is going in the wrong direction as it's down to Ashleys mismangment.

 

They are both rational arguments, you have your beliefs and the justification of your beliefs, yet somehow a third category has appeared which is:

 

iii) Yes the club is going in the right direction but Ashley gets no credit whatsoever.

 

It's a viewpoint which to my view is slightly irrational and is equally as irrational as saying the club is going in the worng direction but Ashley is doing a good job.

[Mick]

No, its put forward as evidence that hes learnt from his mistakes. When in fact it could just as easily be another variation on the short sighted minimum investment policy that got us relegated.

 

The failure to land Moses is interesting. A highly rated young player who Hughton said we were after who ended up at Wigan. Was it the £2.5m price tag that scuppered our attempt to sign him, or was he attracted by the bright lights of Wigan? Or perhaps we couldnt match the wages Wigan were offering. Whichever way you look at it looks like NUFC werent interested in building for next season.

 

 

Perhaps we had a fee agreed with the club for Moses, wages were agreed then his agent doubled what he wanted from the deal.

[Village Idiot]

In the Moses case, it's my belief that he just got blinded by immediate PL football and the fact that Wigan have got a very good reputation as a springboard club for new talent.

[madras]

In the Moses case, it's my belief that he just got blinded by immediate PL football and the fact that Wigan have got a very good reputation as a springboard club for new talent.

quite possibly.

[cubaricho]

No, it’s put forward as evidence that he’s learnt from his mistakes. When in fact it could just as easily be another variation on the short sighted minimum investment policy that got us relegated.

 

The failure to land Moses is interesting. A highly rated young player who Hughton said we were after who ended up at Wigan. Was it the £2.5m price tag that scuppered our attempt to sign him, or was he attracted by the bright lights of Wigan? Or perhaps we couldn’t match the wages Wigan were offering. Whichever way you look at it looks like NUFC weren’t interested in building for next season.

 

 

Perhaps we had a fee agreed with the club for Moses, wages were agreed then his agent doubled what he wanted from the deal.

 

In the Moses case, it's my belief that he just got blinded by immediate PL football and the fact that Wigan have got a very good reputation as a springboard club for new talent.

 

It could easily be either of these but I have a funny feeling that Wigan can offer him better wages at this point as they are in the Prem and we aren't.

 

NUFC in the Championship on 5-10k/wk or Wigan in the Prem on 10-20?

[Mick]

No, it’s put forward as evidence that he’s learnt from his mistakes. When in fact it could just as easily be another variation on the short sighted minimum investment policy that got us relegated.

 

The failure to land Moses is interesting. A highly rated young player who Hughton said we were after who ended up at Wigan. Was it the £2.5m price tag that scuppered our attempt to sign him, or was he attracted by the bright lights of Wigan? Or perhaps we couldn’t match the wages Wigan were offering. Whichever way you look at it looks like NUFC weren’t interested in building for next season.

 

 

Perhaps we had a fee agreed with the club for Moses, wages were agreed then his agent doubled what he wanted from the deal.

 

In the Moses case, it's my belief that he just got blinded by immediate PL football and the fact that Wigan have got a very good reputation as a springboard club for new talent.

 

It could easily be either of these but I have a funny feeling that Wigan can offer him better wages at this point as they are in the Prem and we aren't.

 

NUFC in the Championship on 5-10k/wk or Wigan in the Prem on 10-20?

 

It's not either, it's the reason that I mentioned.

[Howaythelads]

If you actually go through this thread you have 2 basic sides, people vehementely against Ashley who have no interest in giving Ashley any credit whatsoever or even acknowledging anyhting creditable he's done and people who are trying to point out the more balanced view that Ashley has actually done some good which is obviously offset with the bad he's done.

 

There is absolutely no one saying Ashley has done a brilliant job yet the majority of those against him are admament he's done nothing whatsoever that is credit worthy. One of those groups seems far less rational than the other.

 

Dont Chelsea owe £600m to Roman? Not sure exactly but dont the bin dippers owe similar to external creditors? The performaces of the respective teams are irrelavant when you actually look at the dynamics of the debt, that is what many people are trying to point out when they talk about Ashley and the loan he's given to the club.

 

 

 

Stupid comment. You clearly aren't reading properly.

[Happy Face]

I wonder how many pages we would have if the title was "Is the club going in the right direction?"

 

Ultimately we either are or aren't.

 

 

 

"On a large enough time line, the survival rate for everyone will drop to zero."

 

You could argue Plymouth are 'going in the right direction' in the shortest term just because they won their last game, but we all know they're still shit and will be relegated.

 

It's all about timescales.

 

The timescale used for the purpose of the thread is since Mike Ashley arrived.  And in that time he's halved the turnover at the club, doubled the debt and dropped a league.  I don't see how there can be any debate either on the pitch or off that we're worse off.

[Cronky]

I wonder how many pages we would have if the title was "Is the club going in the right direction?"

 

Ultimately we either are or aren't.

 

 

 

"On a large enough time line, the survival rate for everyone will drop to zero."

 

You could argue Plymouth are 'going in the right direction' in the shortest term just because they won their last game, but we all know they're still shit and will be relegated.

 

It's all about timescales.

 

The timescale used for the purpose of the thread is since Mike Ashley arrived.  And in that time he's halved the turnover at the club, doubled the debt and dropped a league.  I don't see how there can be any debate either on the pitch or off that we're worse off.

 

Which obviously is not what the original question was asking.

[Happy Face]

I wonder how many pages we would have if the title was "Is the club going in the right direction?"

 

Ultimately we either are or aren't.

 

 

 

"On a large enough time line, the survival rate for everyone will drop to zero."

 

You could argue Plymouth are 'going in the right direction' in the shortest term just because they won their last game, but we all know they're still shit and will be relegated.

 

It's all about timescales.

 

The timescale used for the purpose of the thread is since Mike Ashley arrived.  And in that time he's halved the turnover at the club, doubled the debt and dropped a league.  I don't see how there can be any debate either on the pitch or off that we're worse off.

 

Which obviously is not what the original question was asking.

 

There was no question in the opening post.  Just some drivel saying you'd be surprised to find that he IS taking us in the right direction.  I certainly was surprised to hear it, as it's not true for the reason I've stated above.

[macca888]

If you actually go through this thread you have 2 basic sides, people vehementely against Ashley who have no interest in giving Ashley any credit whatsoever or even acknowledging anyhting creditable he's done and people who are trying to point out the more balanced view that Ashley has actually done some good which is obviously offset with the bad he's done.

 

There is absolutely no one saying Ashley has done a brilliant job yet the majority of those against him are admament he's done nothing whatsoever that is credit worthy. One of those groups seems far less rational than the other.

 

Dont Chelsea owe £600m to Roman? Not sure exactly but dont the bin dippers owe similar to external creditors? The performaces of the respective teams are irrelavant when you actually look at the dynamics of the debt, that is what many people are trying to point out when they talk about Ashley and the loan he's given to the club.

 

 

Id say it was more a case of those who are confusing our successes this season with a well run club and think Ashley has turned into Jack Walker because we bought a few bargain basement players in January, and those who want to see clear tangible evidence the club is heading in the right direction before they can forget about three years of half truths and abject mismanagement. 

 

You might think being top of this league is proof were heading in the right direction, but others think its a fluke and in the absence of any hard facts about what Ashleys plan was last summer youre in no position to say whats rational and what isnt. Ultimately time will settle this debate, and until its had its say perhaps you should get off your high horse.

 

This is an excellent answer from Fredbob and basically, cuts to the chase. It is fair to say that there will  never be 100% agreement on whether Ashley has the club heading in the right direction or not because whilst some of us are prepared to admit he has made many mistakes, at least he appears to have learned from them and the club is better off for it, being in prim,e position to gain promotion.

 

Form those like Melandro who feel that whatever Ashlery does will never compensate for relegation, let me ask you the following questions:

 

1.  Are you unhappy we are top of the CCC?

2.  What would your opinion be of Ashley if he fully backed the manager's requests this summer and bought several quality players which resulted in a top 6 finish next season? Dont say it is fantasy because we have done it before.

3.  Have you ever made a mistake personally that has resulted in a catastrophe which you have had to deal with to ensure your plans have been re-directed on to the right tracks?

4.  Do you really, honestly think that Ashley is totally to blame for the fiasco last year therefore absolving any blame from Souness, Shepherd, Roeder and Allardyce, not to mention the petulant Keegan?

5..  Are you able to admit mistakes have been made in the past and that the fortune of the club is ahead and not back?

6.  By the way, as each home game passes, is it not evident that the anti ashley protests are getting less and less vociferous?

7.  Who do you suggest takes over the running, ownership of our club from Ashley because as far I am concerned there is not a lot of options on the table, is there? So therefore, for the good of the club, wouldnt it be more pertinent to generate your efforts to support a club that is obviously making every effort to atone for past mistakes rather than digging up ancient history?

8.  Finally, what gives the likes of Melandro the god given right to insult excellent posters who have an opinion to moffer on the subject? Simple answer to this is if you dont like the post, dont reply. If you feel the need to reply, then keep it polite, like many others on this forum who have disagreed with some of my posts, as an example.