AyeDubbleYoo Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Back up for Enrique ?? Fergie was the best player on the pitch on saturday. Fair point, if the manager has faith in him I wouldn't mind him as backup either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punk77 Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Signing 2 new first-team defenders would be a total waste of money IMO. We need backup for Enrique if he stays, maybe a decent cheap CB if nobody is ready from the youth/reserves and the rest should go on strengthening the midfield and getting us someone who can score goals. I wouldnt take any post seriously that assumes Ireland over Nolan will ever happen at CM. Id take a fit ireland over a fit nolan 10 out of 10 times. Which I am sure you would agree is unlikely to ever happen by the way. What a fit ireland can contribute with offensively is way beyond what Nolan can do, simply because he is not a good enough fotballer to do it. Agreed. A more creative and speedy CM will create create and score more goals than what Nolan manages during a season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Ideally, we need a couple of good strikers (one quick, one who can score goals), a winger (assuming Routledge goes), a centre back, a utility fullback who can slot in both sides and a defensive midfielder. An attacking midfielder would be nice too, if Ireland is s***. Not too much to ask Likelihood of it happening - zero Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Roger Kint Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Signing 2 new first-team defenders would be a total waste of money IMO. We need backup for Enrique if he stays, maybe a decent cheap CB if nobody is ready from the youth/reserves and the rest should go on strengthening the midfield and getting us someone who can score goals. I wouldnt take any post seriously that assumes Ireland over Nolan will ever happen at CM. Id take a fit ireland over a fit nolan 10 out of 10 times. Which I am sure you would agree is unlikely to ever happen by the way. What a fit ireland can contribute with offensively is way beyond what Nolan can do, simply because he is not a good enough fotballer to do it. I dont think i have never seen Ireland come close to playing well at CM in a 4-4-2 tbh. As Pardew has stated he prefers two up top am not sure where Ireland would fit in other than as backup to Barton at RW. Either way i wouldnt sign him to play alongside Tiote, personally wouldnt sign him at all for that matter, not worth the expense or fitness risks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Unbelievable that people would replace Nolan, never mind replacing him Stephen Ireland. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colocho Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Unbelievable that people would replace Nolan, never mind replacing him Stephen Ireland. Joint third highest scorer in the league ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Flatline Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Im not saying Ireland is the answer, any high-capacity creative midfielder WILL contribute more overall both in terms of goals, assists and keeping midfield domination than what Nolan currently does. Would you take Nolans 1 goal every 3 games and passenger-style capacity aside from that, or a fit creative midfielder who can dominate every game? Yes Nolan scores goals now and then, but other than that? Ah yes, the "invisible work" and "captain duties" which go unnoticed. Sorry, not good enough for me. He scores goals, but he also exposes our entire midfield and defence through his lack of conditioning. He`s a nice lad but this isnt a personality contest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Roger Kint Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Im not saying Ireland is the answer, any high-capacity creative midfielder WILL contribute more overall both in terms of goals, assists and keeping midfield domination than what Nolan currently does. How many midfielders have done that this season? Edit: By that i mean in a 4-4-2 btw before you start throwing VDV etc at me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colocho Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Im not saying Ireland is the answer, any high-capacity creative midfielder WILL contribute more overall both in terms of goals, assists and keeping midfield domination than what Nolan currently does. Would you take Nolans 1 goal every 3 games and passenger-style capacity aside from that, or a fit creative midfielder who can dominate every game? Yes Nolan scores goals now and then, but other than that? Ah yes, the "invisible work" and "captain duties" which go unnoticed. Sorry, not good enough for me. He scores goals, but he also exposes our entire midfield and defence through his lack of conditioning. He`s a nice lad but this isnt a personality contest. If we had two good strikers, we wouldn't necessarily need a creative midfielder (at least that's what I'm telling myself, as it seems a quality CAM isn't coming in any time soon). This is the approach the club will take in my opinion. I'd rather we go for someone like Kranjcar, tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Im not saying Ireland is the answer, any high-capacity creative midfielder WILL contribute more overall both in terms of goals, assists and keeping midfield domination than what Nolan currently does. How many midfielders have done that this season? Edit: By that i mean in a 4-4-2 btw before you start throwing VDV etc at me. I highly doubt this season is a marker for anything. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Roger Kint Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Im not saying Ireland is the answer, any high-capacity creative midfielder WILL contribute more overall both in terms of goals, assists and keeping midfield domination than what Nolan currently does. How many midfielders have done that this season? Edit: By that i mean in a 4-4-2 btw before you start throwing VDV etc at me. I highly doubt this season is a marker for anything. My point is Flatline is talking out of a different hole by saying another WILL do better as not many currently are aside from those out of our league. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punk77 Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Unbelievable that people would replace Nolan, never mind replacing him Stephen Ireland. You got to see the whole picture. Yes, Nolan has scored 11 goals. But he also hinders our play to an extent. Without Barton, our midfield is helpless. Then we have nobody to distribute , except Tiote, but that's not his original responsibility, but it falls on him anyway because Nolan is useless outside the box. He's similar to Bent in that he plays in a way that makes him look good, but not the others. Nolan doesn't make the other players around him better. It's just the opposite: He doesn't take the ball with him (like offensive cm should do), running straight against the defenders which will force one of them to push forward. That disorganized the defense and creates room for overlapping players, which Nolan then could pass to. The wide man will in such an situation have two options, he can go directly at goal, or run down to the line and hit a 45 degree pass to Nolan who's steaming into the box. This kind of play does not occur frequently with us, because Nolan's style prevents it. It's the offensive cm's responsibility to put other players in such good positions, which Nolan never does! That makes everything more difficult for Jonas and Enrique since the only way they're able to get down the flank is when they're doing it by themselves or combining between them. Nolan doesn't runs towards them, inviting to triangle play or trying to set up a breakthrough with a pass, like he should do. A player like HBA, will probably score 5-6 goals himself, set up more assists to Best and the new attacker, and even manage to create goals for Jonas and Enrique. In sum, the amount of goals he creates for others and bags himself, will far outweigh all goals we lose if Nolan starts on the bench next season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lush Vlad Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Assuming we keep the likes of Barton, Tiote and Enrique. I would say we need a new striker, probably two would be required, cover for the wings and cover at full back. Would like to see us sign a player like Kranjcar for wing cover and maybe the utility man Pardew speaks of could be Jamie O'Hara, not a bad player and can cover three positions. Once Ben Arfa is back fit I would imagine he would play off the front in a 4-4-1-1 or 4-2-3-1 formation as the attacking mid/free role is his best position, that is why I think we need a winger. Being linked with Matt Jarvis, looks a canny little player to me. Genuine wide mean, two footed and has a bit of pace as well, end ball looks far better than Jonas' as well. Problem is, I think one of the first three mentioned will leave, so we will need to replace them. Can't say I agree with dropping Nolan like, he does seem to be a bit of a passenger at times, but we look unorganised, uinterested and generally just a complete shambles when he doesn't play, his leadership qualities are outstanding and he weighs in with important goals. Shame he's such a fat bugger, I really don't get how he is so unfit, he's a pro footballer FFS! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 The Nolan conversation is well worn... goals and leadership vs general contribution and lack of mobility. Personally I would be looking to move him out of the first team when we have all our midfielders available. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilko Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Virtually in place. Translation: Mike's googled them and they're out of contract this summer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Flatline Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Unbelievable that people would replace Nolan, never mind replacing him Stephen Ireland. You got to see the whole picture. Yes, Nolan has scored 11 goals. But he also hinders our play to an extent. Without Barton, our midfield is helpless. Then we have nobody to distribute , except Tiote, but that's not his original responsibility, but it falls on him anyway because Nolan is useless outside the box. He's similar to Bent in that he plays in a way that makes him look good, but not the others. Nolan doesn't make the other players around him better. It's just the opposite: He doesn't take the ball with him (like offensive cm should do), running straight against the defenders which then will force one of them to push forward. That disorganized the defense and creates room for overlapping players, which Nolan then could pass to. The wide man will in such an situation have two options, he can go directly at goal, or run down to the line and hit a 45 degree pass to Nolan who's steaming into the box. This kind of play does not occur frequently with us, because Nolan's style prevents it. It's the offensive cm's responsibility to put other players in such good positions in, which Nolan never does! That makes everything more difficult for Jonas and Enrique since the only way they're able to get down the flank is when they're doing it by themselves or combining between them. Nolan never runs towards them, inviting to triangle play or trying to set up a breakthrough with a pass, like he should do. A player like HBA, will probably score 5-6 goals himself, set up more assists to Best and the new attacker, and even managed to create goals for Jonas and Enrique. In sum, the amount of goals he creates for others and bags himself, will far outweigh all goals Nolan manages during one season. And that's why Nolan should be on the bench from August. +1, agree to most if not all of the above. Additionally, what people seem to forget is that we are a newly promoted team who desperately need the entire XI to contribute. People here operating with rhethorics that wenger and Ferguson would take bite our hand off if we offered them 11 additional goals every season but little else. The crux of the matter is that while they have such a quality in their team to afford 1-2 freeloaders, we don`t. How many goals have we conceded because of our inability to dominate the midfield? Answer? You are right, its not possible to even try to predict that, but as we all know the midfield wins matches. Nolans job is not to score goals. Yet he does, in his own lampardesque way. Thats great and all, but his job first and foremost is the direct the midfield and tie it together. Something he does not do. All the goals in the world does not free him of that responsibility. I`d love for a future midfielder to do what Nolan does, captain the team and score goals often. But for the moment, what we need is a fit creative midfielder who can invite and contribute to offensive raids. Nolan is blue in the face after 10 minutes and have the conditioning of a pub player. We need a CM who does his job. Anything besides that is a bonus, but the position needs to be what it is, not what Kevin Nolan makes it out to be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Nolan will be our captain next season, therefore unless he has a Nicky Butt style decline he'll be in the starting line-up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punk77 Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Nolan will be our captain next season, therefore unless he has a Nicky Butt style decline he'll be in the starting line-up. In other words, he will be our captain if he plays Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colocho Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Highest scoring midfielder in the league, and people still want him dropped. Can't stand him as a person or a footballer, but until he stops coming up with the goods, he'll be one of the first names on the teamsheet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David28 Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Highest scoring midfielder in the league, and people still want him dropped. Can't stand him as a person or a footballer, but until he stops coming up with the goods, he'll be one of the first names on the teamsheet. Why? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punk77 Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Highest scoring midfielder in the league, and people still want him dropped. Can't stand him as a person or a footballer, but until he stops coming up with the goods, he'll be one of the first names on the teamsheet. I'm not arguing that he should be dropped now, but next season. What I've highlighted in bold, sums up everything very nicely imo.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Roger Kint Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Highest scoring midfielder in the league, and people still want him dropped. Can't stand him as a person or a footballer, but until he stops coming up with the goods, he'll be one of the first names on the teamsheet. Its baffling when we have so many far more pressing issues that need dealt with people still talk as if Nolan will be anything but a regular starter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Flatline Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Highest scoring midfielder in the league, and people still want him dropped. Can't stand him as a person or a footballer, but until he stops coming up with the goods, he'll be one of the first names on the teamsheet. Its baffling when we have so many far more pressing issues that need dealt with people still talk as if Nolan will be anything but a regular starter. Yeah, before adressing Nolan we should be looking at the lack of midfield capacity aside from Tiot.. wait a minute.. http://i.imgur.com/vANbl.gif Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Roger Kint Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Sometimes it can be fun trying to educate morons, other days like today its simply tedious and dull. If you think our squads biggest weakness is who plays alongside Tiote then there is nothing worthwhile to say to you on the subject. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorJ_01 Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 It annoys me how crap Nolan can be but hey, he scores a lot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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