Spain win World Cup 2010

[johnnypd]

The players just aren't good enough.

 

For what? To beat f***ing Algeria and Slovenia? Rubbish.

 

Both those teams are better on the ball than us.

 

Nonsense, tbh. Have you seen any of these players play for their clubs?

 

The players in the England team lack the technical and tactical diversity to fit into a system together.  Their deficiencies in terms of trapping the ball, maintaining possession and controlling the ball are cancelled out when playing for their clubs as they are surrounded by players who have the skillsets do this. When you try to mould all of them into a team they look useless because they can't do any of the simple basics that should be learned from a youngster.

 

Lampard, Gerrard, Barry can't do the basics? Howay man.

 

Lampard and Gerrard can't. been saying that for years. there's a reason their club managers surround them with the likes of Alonso, Mascherano, Lucas, Hamann, Sissoko, McAllister, Essien, Makelele, Tiago, Mikel, Ballack etc etc. Let Steve and Frank take care of running forward, taking shots and spraying long range, risky passes. leave the real midfield work of postional discipline, negotiating congested areas of the pitch with good first touch and intelligent short passing and tracking back for tackles and interceptions to others.

 

i don't really think this issue was the major problem tonight though, as we had barry in there, poor as he was, and gerrard was shunted out wide. we had our fair share of possession and pushed algeria back most the time, especially in the 2nd half, but the cohesion to work up fluid attacks just wasn't there, not in the slightest.

[ponsaelius]

The players just aren't good enough.

 

For what? To beat f***ing Algeria and Slovenia? Rubbish.

 

Both those teams are better on the ball than us.

 

Nonsense, tbh. Have you seen any of these players play for their clubs?

 

The players in the England team lack the technical and tactical diversity to fit into a system together.  Their deficiencies in terms of trapping the ball, maintaining possession and controlling the ball are cancelled out when playing for their clubs as they are surrounded by players who have the skillsets do this. When you try to mould all of them into a team they look useless because they can't do any of the simple basics that should be learned from a youngster.

 

Lampard, Gerrard, Barry can't do the basics? Howay man.

 

They're all desperately limited technically and rely on other players at club level to give them the platform to use their strengths. Their ability to do the basics in trapping the ball, passing economically, retaining the football, playing triangles etc is non-existant. That's why in an international situation where the necessity to treasure the ball and break teams down is impossible. Often we overpower teams but even Mexico and Japan were able to maintain possession and do the basics better than we were, it's absolutely f***ing embarrasing.

 

Honestly think changing the system could solve the majority of these problems.

 

A midfield of Barry, Lennon, Cole, Gerrard, Lampard would have it in them to dominate the majority of teams on the tournament imo, especially the likes of f***ing Algeria.

 

Putting in an extra man in midfield would help against most teams at this tournament. Against anybody decent and we would not be able to keep the ball whatever we did.

 

Joe Cole has to play however.

[ElDiablo]

Lampard is the one who needs to be dropped. England don't accommodate him like Chelsea do as and a result he's a spare part who produces fuck all.

[ponsaelius]

The players just aren't good enough.

 

For what? To beat f***ing Algeria and Slovenia? Rubbish.

 

Both those teams are better on the ball than us.

 

Nonsense, tbh. Have you seen any of these players play for their clubs?

 

The players in the England team lack the technical and tactical diversity to fit into a system together.  Their deficiencies in terms of trapping the ball, maintaining possession and controlling the ball are cancelled out when playing for their clubs as they are surrounded by players who have the skillsets do this. When you try to mould all of them into a team they look useless because they can't do any of the simple basics that should be learned from a youngster.

 

Lampard, Gerrard, Barry can't do the basics? Howay man.

 

Lampard and Gerrard can't. been saying that for years. there's a reason their club managers surround them with the likes of Alonso, Mascherano, Lucas, Hamann, Sissoko, McAllister, Essien, Makelele, Tiago, Mikel, Ballack etc etc. Let Steve and Frank take care of running forward, taking shots and spraying long range, risky passes. leave the real midfield work of postional discipline, negotiating congested areas of the pitch with good first touch and intelligent short passing and tracking back for tackles and interceptions to others.

 

i don't really think this issue was the major problem tonight though, as we had barry in there, poor as he was, and gerrard was shunted out wide. we had our fair share of possession and pushed algeria back most the time, especially in the 2nd half, but the cohesion to work up fluid attacks just wasn't there, not in the slightest.

 

Exactly what I'm trying to say, you worded it better than I could.

[Keefaz]

God there's some balls talked in here. Look at a team like Man Utd. They won the lot with basically an exclusively British midfield and had no bother maintaining possession.

[Mike]

The players just aren't good enough.

 

For what? To beat f***ing Algeria and Slovenia? Rubbish.

 

Both those teams are better on the ball than us.

 

Nonsense, tbh. Have you seen any of these players play for their clubs?

 

The players in the England team lack the technical and tactical diversity to fit into a system together.  Their deficiencies in terms of trapping the ball, maintaining possession and controlling the ball are cancelled out when playing for their clubs as they are surrounded by players who have the skillsets do this. When you try to mould all of them into a team they look useless because they can't do any of the simple basics that should be learned from a youngster.

 

Lampard, Gerrard, Barry can't do the basics? Howay man.

 

Lampard and Gerrard can't. been saying that for years. there's a reason their club managers surround them with the likes of Alonso, Mascherano, Lucas, Hamann, Sissoko, McAllister, Essien, Makelele, Tiago, Mikel, Ballack etc etc. Let Steve and Frank take care of running forward, taking shots and spraying long range, risky passes. leave the real midfield work of postional discipline, negotiating congested areas of the pitch with good first touch and intelligent short passing and tracking back for tackles and interceptions to others.

 

i don't really think this issue was the major problem tonight though, as we had barry in there, poor as he was, and gerrard was shunted out wide. we had our fair share of possession and pushed algeria back most the time, especially in the 2nd half, but the cohesion to work up fluid attacks just wasn't there, not in the slightest.

 

Exactly what I'm trying to say, you worded it better than I could.

 

That's what I think as well. Think it applies to just about all of the players in the England squad.

[Mike]

Algeria fans talking shit. Love the World Cup.

[ponsaelius]

God there's some balls talked in here. Look at a team like Man Utd. They won the lot with basically at exclusively British midfield and had no bother maintaining possession.

 

They had Paul Scholes, Ryan Giggs, Roy Keane and David Beckham. Players who could do the basics, complete footballers who can do everything and have what's required to maintain possession. Lampard, Gerrard and Barry cannot.

[Minhosa]

The players just aren't good enough.

 

For what? To beat f***ing Algeria and Slovenia? Rubbish.

 

Both those teams are better on the ball than us.

 

Nonsense, tbh. Have you seen any of these players play for their clubs?

 

The players in the England team lack the technical and tactical diversity to fit into a system together.  Their deficiencies in terms of trapping the ball, maintaining possession and controlling the ball are cancelled out when playing for their clubs as they are surrounded by players who have the skillsets do this. When you try to mould all of them into a team they look useless because they can't do any of the simple basics that should be learned from a youngster.

 

Lampard, Gerrard, Barry can't do the basics? Howay man.

 

They're all desperately limited technically and rely on other players at club level to give them the platform to use their strengths. Their ability to do the basics in trapping the ball, passing economically, retaining the football, playing triangles etc is non-existant. That's why in an international situation where the necessity to treasure the ball and break teams down is impossible. Often we overpower teams but even Mexico and Japan were able to maintain possession and do the basics better than we were, it's absolutely f***ing embarrasing.

 

Do you think then, based upon that, that a Gerrard, Lampard or Rooney wouldn't get in many of the other 32 teams?

 

Spain apart they'd walk into pretty much every other team imho.

 

Rooney yes. Lampard and Gerrard wouldn't get into Brazil, Germany, Argentina, Netherlands at all. And even if they were to there would have to be compensations made to include them in the same line-up. 

 

Disagree with that put can see the broad point your making. No doubt in my mind all 3 would get into the vast majority of sides in the competition.

[Cronky]

God there's some balls talked in here. Look at a team like Man Utd. They won the lot with basically an exclusively British midfield and had no bother maintaining possession.

 

Exactly. The problem came in the final third, where instead of taking our opportunities, we looked inhibited. On three occasions (twice with Gerrard I think) a man had a clear shot on goal wide right and instead of blasting it, tried to pass it inside. That kind of hesitation makes all the difference.

[Ronaldo]

The players just aren't good enough.

 

For what? To beat f***ing Algeria and Slovenia? Rubbish.

 

Both those teams are better on the ball than us.

 

Nonsense, tbh. Have you seen any of these players play for their clubs?

 

The players in the England team lack the technical and tactical diversity to fit into a system together.  Their deficiencies in terms of trapping the ball, maintaining possession and controlling the ball are cancelled out when playing for their clubs as they are surrounded by players who have the skillsets do this. When you try to mould all of them into a team they look useless because they can't do any of the simple basics that should be learned from a youngster.

 

Lampard, Gerrard, Barry can't do the basics? Howay man.

 

Lampard and Gerrard can't. been saying that for years. there's a reason their club managers surround them with the likes of Alonso, Mascherano, Lucas, Hamann, Sissoko, McAllister, Essien, Makelele, Tiago, Mikel, Ballack etc etc. Let Steve and Frank take care of running forward, taking shots and spraying long range, risky passes. leave the real midfield work of postional discipline, negotiating congested areas of the pitch with good first touch and intelligent short passing and tracking back for tackles and interceptions to others.

 

i don't really think this issue was the major problem tonight though, as we had barry in there, poor as he was, and gerrard was shunted out wide. we had our fair share of possession and pushed algeria back most the time, especially in the 2nd half, but the cohesion to work up fluid attacks just wasn't there, not in the slightest.

 

Absolute nonsense. Completely disregarding the stats which had Lamapard and Gerrard respectively as the top 2 creative players in the league in 08-09 and Lampard once again leading the way last season.

 

Players need to be used corrently, you only need to look at Messi for Argentina to see that.

[Minhosa]

Another thing that did become apparent tonight was players not playing in the obvious man in space. There was countless times Johnson was on only for Gerrard or Barry to overcomplicate things or go through the middle.

 

A further thing was midfielders tripping over each other and getting in each others way, especially with Gerrard who ran into Lampard and Rooney in nothing positions.

[ponsaelius]

The players just aren't good enough.

 

For what? To beat f***ing Algeria and Slovenia? Rubbish.

 

Both those teams are better on the ball than us.

 

Nonsense, tbh. Have you seen any of these players play for their clubs?

 

The players in the England team lack the technical and tactical diversity to fit into a system together.  Their deficiencies in terms of trapping the ball, maintaining possession and controlling the ball are cancelled out when playing for their clubs as they are surrounded by players who have the skillsets do this. When you try to mould all of them into a team they look useless because they can't do any of the simple basics that should be learned from a youngster.

 

Lampard, Gerrard, Barry can't do the basics? Howay man.

 

Lampard and Gerrard can't. been saying that for years. there's a reason their club managers surround them with the likes of Alonso, Mascherano, Lucas, Hamann, Sissoko, McAllister, Essien, Makelele, Tiago, Mikel, Ballack etc etc. Let Steve and Frank take care of running forward, taking shots and spraying long range, risky passes. leave the real midfield work of postional discipline, negotiating congested areas of the pitch with good first touch and intelligent short passing and tracking back for tackles and interceptions to others.

 

i don't really think this issue was the major problem tonight though, as we had barry in there, poor as he was, and gerrard was shunted out wide. we had our fair share of possession and pushed algeria back most the time, especially in the 2nd half, but the cohesion to work up fluid attacks just wasn't there, not in the slightest.

 

Absolute nonsense. Completely disregarding the stats which had Lamapard and Gerrard respectively as the top 2 creative players in the league in 08-09 and Lampard once again leading the way last season.

 

Players need to be used corrently, you only need to look at Messi for Argentina to see that.

 

Exactly, both of those players performed well because they had the set-up and players around them in order to get the very best out of them. Neither Gerrard or Lampard are complete enough midfielders, and the set up needs to be right to get the best out of them. England however don't have the players to put behind them in order to get the best out of them - hence why they're both shoehorned repeatedly into the same line-up and it repeatedly fails to work.

[Minhosa]

The players just aren't good enough.

 

For what? To beat f***ing Algeria and Slovenia? Rubbish.

 

Both those teams are better on the ball than us.

 

Nonsense, tbh. Have you seen any of these players play for their clubs?

 

The players in the England team lack the technical and tactical diversity to fit into a system together.  Their deficiencies in terms of trapping the ball, maintaining possession and controlling the ball are cancelled out when playing for their clubs as they are surrounded by players who have the skillsets do this. When you try to mould all of them into a team they look useless because they can't do any of the simple basics that should be learned from a youngster.

 

Lampard, Gerrard, Barry can't do the basics? Howay man.

 

Lampard and Gerrard can't. been saying that for years. there's a reason their club managers surround them with the likes of Alonso, Mascherano, Lucas, Hamann, Sissoko, McAllister, Essien, Makelele, Tiago, Mikel, Ballack etc etc. Let Steve and Frank take care of running forward, taking shots and spraying long range, risky passes. leave the real midfield work of postional discipline, negotiating congested areas of the pitch with good first touch and intelligent short passing and tracking back for tackles and interceptions to others.

 

i don't really think this issue was the major problem tonight though, as we had barry in there, poor as he was, and gerrard was shunted out wide. we had our fair share of possession and pushed algeria back most the time, especially in the 2nd half, but the cohesion to work up fluid attacks just wasn't there, not in the slightest.

 

Absolute nonsense. Completely disregarding the stats which had Lamapard and Gerrard respectively as the top 2 creative players in the league in 08-09 and Lampard once again leading the way last season.

 

Players need to be used corrently, you only need to look at Messi for Argentina to see that.

 

Exactly, both of those players performed well because they had the set-up and players around them in order to get the very best out of them. Neither Gerrard or Lampard are complete enough midfielders, and the set up needs to be right to get the best out of them. England however don't have the players to put behind them in order to get the best out of them - hence why they're both shoehorned repeatedly into the same line-up and it repeatedly fails to work.

 

Yet Rafa bust his balls trying to sign Barry specifically for that role?

[johnnypd]

God there's some balls talked in here. Look at a team like Man Utd. They won the lot with basically at exclusively British midfield and had no bother maintaining possession.

 

They had Paul Scholes, Ryan Giggs, Roy Keane and David Beckham. Players who could do the basics, complete footballers who can do everything and have what's required to maintain possession. Lampard, Gerrard and Barry cannot.

 

Scholes is the only English player I can remember who could match the best continental players at the sort of things we've highlighted as weaknesses in the current squad. we do have some decent players in this regard - the likes of Ashley Cole, Ferdinand, Rooney to some extent even if his touch was atrocious tonight, but too many let us down on a consistent basis during general play and get by on physicality, aggression and end product.

[CaliMag]

The players just aren't good enough.

 

For what? To beat f***ing Algeria and Slovenia? Rubbish.

 

Both those teams are better on the ball than us.

 

Nonsense, tbh. Have you seen any of these players play for their clubs?

 

The players in the England team lack the technical and tactical diversity to fit into a system together.  Their deficiencies in terms of trapping the ball, maintaining possession and controlling the ball are cancelled out when playing for their clubs as they are surrounded by players who have the skillsets do this. When you try to mould all of them into a team they look useless because they can't do any of the simple basics that should be learned from a youngster.

 

Lampard, Gerrard, Barry can't do the basics? Howay man.

 

Lampard and Gerrard can't. been saying that for years. there's a reason their club managers surround them with the likes of Alonso, Mascherano, Lucas, Hamann, Sissoko, McAllister, Essien, Makelele, Tiago, Mikel, Ballack etc etc. Let Steve and Frank take care of running forward, taking shots and spraying long range, risky passes. leave the real midfield work of postional discipline, negotiating congested areas of the pitch with good first touch and intelligent short passing and tracking back for tackles and interceptions to others.

 

i don't really think this issue was the major problem tonight though, as we had barry in there, poor as he was, and gerrard was shunted out wide. we had our fair share of possession and pushed algeria back most the time, especially in the 2nd half, but the cohesion to work up fluid attacks just wasn't there, not in the slightest.

 

Absolute nonsense. Completely disregarding the stats which had Lamapard and Gerrard respectively as the top 2 creative players in the league in 08-09 and Lampard once again leading the way last season.

 

Players need to be used corrently, you only need to look at Messi for Argentina to see that.

 

Exactly, both of those players performed well because they had the set-up and players around them in order to get the very best out of them. Neither Gerrard or Lampard are complete enough midfielders, and the set up needs to be right to get the best out of them. England however don't have the players to put behind them in order to get the best out of them - hence why they're both shoehorned repeatedly into the same line-up and it repeatedly fails to work.

 

Yet Rafa bust his balls trying to sign Barry specifically for that role?

 

Steady on... Parky will read this and it will turn into a Rafa transfer failure thread quickish.

[Minhosa]

God there's some balls talked in here. Look at a team like Man Utd. They won the lot with basically at exclusively British midfield and had no bother maintaining possession.

 

They had Paul Scholes, Ryan Giggs, Roy Keane and David Beckham. Players who could do the basics, complete footballers who can do everything and have what's required to maintain possession. Lampard, Gerrard and Barry cannot.

 

Scholes is the only English player I can remember who could match the best continental players at the sort of things we've highlighted as weaknesses in the current squad. we do have some decent players in this regard - the likes of Ashley Cole, Ferdinand, Rooney to some extent even if his touch was atrocious tonight, but too many let us down on a consistent basis during general play and get by on physicality, aggression and end product.

 

Er, aren't you forgetting someone?

 

Sir Nicholas of Butt?

[ponsaelius]

Rafa trying to replace Alonso with Barry was just:  all round though.

[Ronaldo]

I still think Lampard and Gerrard are scapegates to an extent. Nobody wants to point the finger at the strikers or wingers, who've basically been shite in ever major tournament of the last decade or so. A young Rooney is an exception in 04.

[Minhosa]

I still think Lampard and Gerrard are scapegates to an extent. Nobody wants to point the finger at the strikers or wingers, who've basically been shite in ever major tournament of the last decade or so. A young Rooney is an exception in 04.

 

Agree with this with the caveat that we've still not had the pair of them in the correct system nor consistently enough.

[johnnypd]

The players just aren't good enough.

 

For what? To beat f***ing Algeria and Slovenia? Rubbish.

 

Both those teams are better on the ball than us.

 

Nonsense, tbh. Have you seen any of these players play for their clubs?

 

The players in the England team lack the technical and tactical diversity to fit into a system together.  Their deficiencies in terms of trapping the ball, maintaining possession and controlling the ball are cancelled out when playing for their clubs as they are surrounded by players who have the skillsets do this. When you try to mould all of them into a team they look useless because they can't do any of the simple basics that should be learned from a youngster.

 

Lampard, Gerrard, Barry can't do the basics? Howay man.

 

Lampard and Gerrard can't. been saying that for years. there's a reason their club managers surround them with the likes of Alonso, Mascherano, Lucas, Hamann, Sissoko, McAllister, Essien, Makelele, Tiago, Mikel, Ballack etc etc. Let Steve and Frank take care of running forward, taking shots and spraying long range, risky passes. leave the real midfield work of postional discipline, negotiating congested areas of the pitch with good first touch and intelligent short passing and tracking back for tackles and interceptions to others.

 

i don't really think this issue was the major problem tonight though, as we had barry in there, poor as he was, and gerrard was shunted out wide. we had our fair share of possession and pushed algeria back most the time, especially in the 2nd half, but the cohesion to work up fluid attacks just wasn't there, not in the slightest.

 

Absolute nonsense. Completely disregarding the stats which had Lamapard and Gerrard respectively as the top 2 creative players in the league in 08-09 and Lampard once again leading the way last season.

 

Players need to be used corrently, you only need to look at Messi for Argentina to see that.

 

maybe you are misreading what i said, because that response doesn't actually address anything ive said. it makes perfect sense for lampard and gerrard to be the most creative players in the league - that's the entire point - they get others to do the midfield horsework for them, freeing them up for purely creative duties. when they have to drop back and take charge of a game they are dogshit.

 

however this wasn't really the major problem tonight, which was lacking fluid attacks that could break algeria open in the final third - though it has been in England's recent past.

[LesPaul]

http://cdn.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/the-sun-world-cup-2010.jpg

suuuuuure...

[Guest BooBoo]

It's a thorough irrelevance what happens versus Slovenia as this England side will be completely shown up and eliminated the moment we meet a team with any real technical and tactical nous.

[Cronky]

Another thing that did become apparent tonight was players not playing in the obvious man in space. There was countless times Johnson was on only for Gerrard or Barry to overcomplicate things or go through the middle.

 

 

I noticed that as well. I know if you're right footed, it's easier to pass the ball to the left, but on two or three occasions, Johnson was in loads of space in the second half, and they moved it the other way. As with the USA game, we looked more dangerous on the right, so I couldn't understand that.

 

Again, maybe it's unrelaxed minds at work.

[Cronky]

It's a thorough irrelevance what happens versus Slovenia as this England side will be completely shown up and eliminated the moment we meet a team with any real technical and tactical nous.

 

I actually think we'll play far better against a decent side. The mental inhibitions will go.