Are Mike and Del Boy Forgiven Now?

[Stu]

Surely Ashley's position is clear now. He's out to make the club self-sufficient financially and is only prepared to subsidise the losses for a limited period. That doesn't mean that he's out to make a profit for himself and there's no indication whatsoever of that.

 

On the issue of spending big, I'm sure Ashley will have been looking at recent events and thinking why bother. We paid £9 million for Coloccini and then bought Williamson for a fraction of that amount in fees and wages, and got a player who is just as good if not better. We've got players this window on loan or on free or small transfers that I think will prove to have the quality to push us forward.

 

At the top end of the market, the very biggest clubs are still paying crazy money for the best players, but below that, things are becoming much more sensible. A two tier system seems to have developed, but with the influx of players from different parts of the world and freedom of contract, there are good players at reasonable prices out there.

 

Good post

[UV]

What the HAPPY CLAPPY ASHLEYITE BRIGADE don't seem to understand is that Ashley will drive a hard bargain whether it occasionally gets the right result or whether it more often than not fails to do so. Which in the long run will most likely result in a squad full of mediocre and/or disgruntled players, leading to a disenchanted and dwindling supporter base.

 

all else aside this is my fear with Ashley, i have the nagging suspicion that he's currently 'succeeding' (used very loosely) by good luck rather than good strategic management and the wheels will come spinning off again before too long

 

a good season from Carroll / Enrique for example, they'll be sold to the first good bid that comes in imo, might be wrong and i'm aware my opinion is skewed by hating the guy so much

 

I have to say I haven't met anyone I could describe as a member of a "HAPPY CLAPPY ASHLEYITE BRIGADE" and there aren't too many unconditional Ashley supporters on this board imo. For the most part I sense that the majority think he bought the club without doing proper research, then made a series of catastrophic mistakes which, fortunately, he has the money to fund. But he has done a bit better in the last 9 months or so. I doubt that many feel totally confident that he couldn't screw up again tbh.

 

I had hoped the "HAPPY CLAPPY ASHLEYITE BRIGADE" label would be quite obviously seen for what it was as simply a response in kind to the "BOYCOUTT BRIGADE" label in the post I was quoting. People don't seem to have a problem labelling anyone who criticises Asley in that camp though.

 

Stupeedo, the person I was responding to, is and always has been quite unashamedly a happy clappy ashleyite btw.

[Guest malandro]

Surely Ashley's position is clear now. He's out to make the club self-sufficient financially and is only prepared to subsidise the losses for a limited period. That doesn't mean that he's out to make a profit for himself and there's no indication whatsoever of that.

 

On the issue of spending big, I'm sure Ashley will have been looking at recent events and thinking why bother. We paid £9 million for Coloccini and then bought Williamson for a fraction of that amount in fees and wages, and got a player who is just as good if not better. We've got players this window on loan or on free or small transfers that I think will prove to have the quality to push us forward.

 

At the top end of the market, the very biggest clubs are still paying crazy money for the best players, but below that, things are becoming much more sensible. A two tier system seems to have developed, but with the influx of players from different parts of the world and freedom of contract, there are good players at reasonable prices out there.

His position is anything but clear. We have no idea what his plans for the club are beyond the odd ambiguous statement. My guess is he’s looking to claw back his loans before selling a profit making PL club a few years down the line.

 

We did well with a very limited budget this summer, but you can’t buck market forces forever. In the long run these kinds of investment levels lead to mediocrity at best. We might invest more next season, but if the club is going to start repaying Ashley loans it’s difficult to see how this will be funded.

 

[OzzieMandias]

Well, there's been absolutely no sign so far that he's looking to "claw back his loans", and he's not charging interest on them. The accounts we've seen indicate that the amount of money he's taken out of the club is precisely zero; the flow of cash has been entirely in an Ashley --> NUFC direction.

 

Still, if you're desperate for something to whine about... 

[relámpago blanco]

Tbf as well, think of the profit/interest he could have made on the money he's loaned the club at 0% interest.  How many Owners other than Man City plough in money to the club?

[Guest jonlane86]

Surely Ashley's position is clear now. He's out to make the club self-sufficient financially and is only prepared to subsidise the losses for a limited period. That doesn't mean that he's out to make a profit for himself and there's no indication whatsoever of that.

 

On the issue of spending big, I'm sure Ashley will have been looking at recent events and thinking why bother. We paid £9 million for Coloccini and then bought Williamson for a fraction of that amount in fees and wages, and got a player who is just as good if not better. We've got players this window on loan or on free or small transfers that I think will prove to have the quality to push us forward.

 

At the top end of the market, the very biggest clubs are still paying crazy money for the best players, but below that, things are becoming much more sensible. A two tier system seems to have developed, but with the influx of players from different parts of the world and freedom of contract, there are good players at reasonable prices out there.

 

agreed

[Guest malandro]

Well, there's been absolutely no sign so far that he's looking to "claw back his loans", and he's not charging interest on them. The accounts we've seen indicate that the amount of money he's taken out of the club is precisely zero; the flow of cash has been entirely in an Ashley --> NUFC direction.

 

Still, if you're desperate for something to whine about... 

He wasn’t going to take money out when he had to put money in was he. He have to be almost as dumb as you to take £20M out last season and then give the club £20m to keep the banks happy.

[OzzieMandias]

Well, there's been absolutely no sign so far that he's looking to "claw back his loans", and he's not charging interest on them. The accounts we've seen indicate that the amount of money he's taken out of the club is precisely zero; the flow of cash has been entirely in an Ashley --> NUFC direction.

 

Still, if you're desperate for something to whine about... 

He wasn’t going to take money out when he had to put money in was he. He have to be almost as dumb as you to take £20M out last season and then give the club £20m to keep the banks happy.

 

Well, if you ever turn up one tiny little fact that in any way supports your position on this issue, be sure and let us know. Until that time, forgive me for not being able to take you seriously.

[Thespence]

Well, there's been absolutely no sign so far that he's looking to "claw back his loans", and he's not charging interest on them. The accounts we've seen indicate that the amount of money he's taken out of the club is precisely zero; the flow of cash has been entirely in an Ashley --> NUFC direction.

 

Still, if you're desperate for something to whine about... 

He wasn’t going to take money out when he had to put money in was he. He have to be almost as dumb as you to take £20M out last season and then give the club £20m to keep the banks happy.

 

Well, if you ever turn up one tiny little fact that in any way supports your position on this issue, be sure and let us know. Until that time, forgive me for not being able to take you seriously.

 

How often do you turn up?

[Guest malandro]

Well, there's been absolutely no sign so far that he's looking to "claw back his loans", and he's not charging interest on them. The accounts we've seen indicate that the amount of money he's taken out of the club is precisely zero; the flow of cash has been entirely in an Ashley --> NUFC direction.

 

Still, if you're desperate for something to whine about... 

He wasnt going to take money out when he had to put money in was he. He have to be almost as dumb as you to take £20M out last season and then give the club £20m to keep the banks happy.

 

Well, if you ever turn up one tiny little fact that in any way supports your position on this issue, be sure and let us know. Until that time, forgive me for not being able to take you seriously.

My position is he should come clean about his future plans for the club, and it is fact that he hasn’t.

 

Your position is that he hasn’t taken any money out (when he was having to put money in) so he couldn’t possibly be excepting the loans to be repaid, which is clearly drivel.

 

[OzzieMandias]

 

So the fact that he hasn't taken any money out proves that he's going to take loads and loads of money out?

[Guest malandro]

You’re getting confused. You’re the one who thinks the fact he has yet to take any money out has any bearing on whether or not he wants his loans repaid.

[madras]

You’re getting confused. You’re the one who thinks the fact he has yet to take any money out has any bearing on whether or not he wants his loans repaid.

you aren't going to hold him wanting his money back at some point against him are you when he's been effectivly keeping the club going for the last year or two are you ?

[OzzieMandias]

And you're the one who thinks he's pumped all that money into the club in order to be able to take it all straight back out again.

[Liam Liam Liam O]

http://www.animationplayhouse.com/tennis.gif

[Guest malandro]

You’re getting confused. You’re the one who thinks the fact he has yet to take any money out has any bearing on whether or not he wants his loans repaid.

you aren't going to hold him wanting his money back at some point against him are you when he's been effectivly keeping the club going for the last year or two are you ?

That depends on how much of the extra debt we’ve accrued since he bought the club can be attributed to his mistakes. Taking money out of the club to pay for his mistakes would certainly be of dubious morality.

[Guest malandro]

And you're the one who thinks he's pumped all that money into the club in order to be able to take it all straight back out again.

Wrong as usual. I think he has lent the club something like £140m because he had to, to avoid losing his initial investment.  You on the other hand seem to think it was an altruistic gesture.

[madras]

You’re getting confused. You’re the one who thinks the fact he has yet to take any money out has any bearing on whether or not he wants his loans repaid.

you aren't going to hold him wanting his money back at some point against him are you when he's been effectivly keeping the club going for the last year or two are you ?

That depends on how much of the extra debt we’ve accrued since he bought the club can be attributed to his mistakes. Taking money out of the club to pay for his mistakes would certainly be of dubious morality.

using the same criteria i wonder what you think of shepherd ?

[OzzieMandias]

Uh-oh.

[Guest malandro]

Youre getting confused. Youre the one who thinks the fact he has yet to take any money out has any bearing on whether or not he wants his loans repaid.

you aren't going to hold him wanting his money back at some point against him are you when he's been effectivly keeping the club going for the last year or two are you ?

That depends on how much of the extra debt weve accrued since he bought the club can be attributed to his mistakes. Taking money out of the club to pay for his mistakes would certainly be of dubious morality.

using the same criteria i wonder what you think of shepherd ?

I judge Ashley on his own actions, not against those of others. Two wrongs don’t make a right.

[madras]

Youre getting confused. Youre the one who thinks the fact he has yet to take any money out has any bearing on whether or not he wants his loans repaid.

you aren't going to hold him wanting his money back at some point against him are you when he's been effectivly keeping the club going for the last year or two are you ?

That depends on how much of the extra debt weve accrued since he bought the club can be attributed to his mistakes. Taking money out of the club to pay for his mistakes would certainly be of dubious morality.

using the same criteria i wonder what you think of shepherd ?

I judge Ashley on his own actions, not against those of others. Two wrongs don’t make a right.

bob and weave lad, bob and weave.

[Guest malandro]

Youre getting confused. Youre the one who thinks the fact he has yet to take any money out has any bearing on whether or not he wants his loans repaid.

you aren't going to hold him wanting his money back at some point against him are you when he's been effectivly keeping the club going for the last year or two are you ?

That depends on how much of the extra debt weve accrued since he bought the club can be attributed to his mistakes. Taking money out of the club to pay for his mistakes would certainly be of dubious morality.

using the same criteria i wonder what you think of shepherd ?

I judge Ashley on his own actions, not against those of others. Two wrongs dont make a right.

bob and weave lad, bob and weave.

This thread is about Mike Ashley and whether he has been ‘forgiven’.  Trying to drag Fat Freddy into the debate clearly illustrates you are struggling to justify your views on the real issue.

[madras]

Youre getting confused. Youre the one who thinks the fact he has yet to take any money out has any bearing on whether or not he wants his loans repaid.

you aren't going to hold him wanting his money back at some point against him are you when he's been effectivly keeping the club going for the last year or two are you ?

That depends on how much of the extra debt weve accrued since he bought the club can be attributed to his mistakes. Taking money out of the club to pay for his mistakes would certainly be of dubious morality.

using the same criteria i wonder what you think of shepherd ?

I judge Ashley on his own actions, not against those of others. Two wrongs dont make a right.

bob and weave lad, bob and weave.

This thread is about Mike Ashley and whether he has been ‘forgiven’.  Trying to drag Fat Freddy into the debate clearly illustrates you are struggling to justify your views on the real issue.

what are my views on the real issue as i wasn't aware i'd put forward any views to justify.

 

i see them both as similar in that both made huge fuck ups but at least ashley is paying for them with his own cash and also looks highly unlikely to make a profit on the deal.

[wormy]

I actually kind of long for the days of NE5...

[Guest malandro]

You’re getting confused. You’re the one who thinks the fact he has yet to take any money out has any bearing on whether or not he wants his loans repaid.

you aren't going to hold him wanting his money back at some point against him are you when he's been effectivly keeping the club going for the last year or two are you ?

That depends on how much of the extra debt we’ve accrued since he bought the club can be attributed to his mistakes. Taking money out of the club to pay for his mistakes would certainly be of dubious morality.

using the same criteria i wonder what you think of shepherd ?

I judge Ashley on his own actions, not against those of others. Two wrongs don’t make a right.

bob and weave lad, bob and weave.

This thread is about Mike Ashley and whether he has been ‘forgiven’.  Trying to drag Fat Freddy into the debate clearly illustrates you are struggling to justify your views on the real issue.

what are my views on the real issue as i wasn't aware i'd put forward any views to justify.

 

i see them both as similar in that both made huge f*** ups but at least ashley is paying for them with his own cash and also looks highly unlikely to make a profit on the deal.

That’s right. Just like Ozzie you are far more comfortable attacking others views than actually defending your own. Far easier to try and pick holes in other peoples thinking than actually thinking for yourself.  To be fair you’re nowhere near as bad as Ozzie when it comes to hovering around the board looking for opportunities to criticise and mock whilst never saying anything that might leave you open to the kind of cross examination you subject others to.