Kevin Nolan

[Andy]

Who cares where his goals come from, as long as he's getting them? I'd rather him score 13 or 14 scrappy goals from set pieces than 3 wonder goals over the course of a season.

[TRon]

Who cares where his goals come from, as long as he's getting them? I'd rather him score 13 or 14 scrappy goals from set pieces than 3 wonder goals over the course of a season.

 

Not the point I'm making really.

[mrmojorisin75]

Who cares where his goals come from, as long as he's getting them? I'd rather him score 13 or 14 scrappy goals from set pieces than 3 wonder goals over the course of a season.

 

Not the point I'm making really.

 

what is the point you're making exactly, that you'd prefer us to have a better player than nolan? me too

 

all you're really saying is nolan has limits to his game (which no-one disputes) and that his specific limitations are attributes you value highly in a footballer, i.e. pace and movement...other people value goals at the top and nolan is scoring them

 

you've been calling nolan a fat pub footballer since he signed iirc

[Andy]

So what is the point you're making? That we should overlook his contribution (goals, good team performances, good results with him in the team) on the basis that he isn't as good as Jack Wilshire and he isn't the kind of player who England would call upon?

[Stu]

 

I think the nail has been hit firmly on the head.

 

FWIW, even as a Nolan "fanboy", I'd still prefer a 38-year old Zidane.

[JH]

Why isn't he as good as Wilshere? Eh? Eh? Makes me sick.

[Benwell Lad]

To replace Kevin Nolan would cost a lot of money.

[jdckelly]

according to the journal hes the only english midfielder with 50 prem goals not to be capped by england

[TRon]

So what is the point you're making? That we should overlook his contribution (goals, good team performances, good results with him in the team) on the basis that he isn't as good as Jack Wilshire and he isn't the kind of player who England would call upon?

 

Why isn't he the kind of player England would call upon then?

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I totally imagined that Nolan did have an England cap. I can even picture him standing in the line singing the anthem.

 

Either it was an U21 game, a dream or I'm going mental. Could be either.

[JH]

So what is the point you're making? That we should overlook his contribution (goals, good team performances, good results with him in the team) on the basis that he isn't as good as Jack Wilshire and he isn't the kind of player who England would call upon?

 

Why isn't he the kind of player England would call upon then?

 

Because he hasn't been called upon by England?

[JH]

I totally imagined that Nolan did have an England cap. I can even picture him standing in the line singing the anthem.

 

Either it was an U21 game, a dream or I'm going mental. Could be either.

 

He played for the U21s a couple of times.

[Fried Chicken]

Nolan for Qatar Captain @ 2022 WC 

[TRon]

So what is the point you're making? That we should overlook his contribution (goals, good team performances, good results with him in the team) on the basis that he isn't as good as Jack Wilshire and he isn't the kind of player who England would call upon?

 

Why isn't he the kind of player England would call upon then?

 

Because he hasn't been called upon by England?

 

So the reason why he's not the kind of player England would call upon is...."because he hasn't been?"

[wormy]

I've tried to keep up with the 'debate' on this last page, yet none of it makes sense for shit to me

[Andy]

So what is the point you're making? That we should overlook his contribution (goals, good team performances, good results with him in the team) on the basis that he isn't as good as Jack Wilshire and he isn't the kind of player who England would call upon?

 

Why isn't he the kind of player England would call upon then?

 

Because he hasn't been called upon by England?

 

So the reason why he's not the kind of player England would call upon is...."because he hasn't been?"

 

Why is it relevant? Some players are effective at club level without quite being international class -- Nolan is one of those players.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

So are Gareth Barry, Matthew Upson, Emile Heskey, Jamie Carragher and a host of others mind.

[TRon]

So what is the point you're making? That we should overlook his contribution (goals, good team performances, good results with him in the team) on the basis that he isn't as good as Jack Wilshire and he isn't the kind of player who England would call upon?

 

Why isn't he the kind of player England would call upon then?

 

Because he hasn't been called upon by England?

 

So the reason why he's not the kind of player England would call upon is...."because he hasn't been?"

 

Why is it relevant? Some players are effective at club level without quite being international class -- Nolan is one of those players.

 

I don't think that anyone could say that Nolan as a goal scorer is inferior to any current England midfielder, in fact the stats show he's better than most. So it's obviously the other parts of his game which are considered lacking. That doesn't mean he can't be an effective club player, but the same limitations means while he's here we'll be limited as well.

[TRon]

To replace Kevin Nolan would cost a lot of money.

 

That just shows how important the position is and the value of a player who can do it well. Personally I would like us to use some of the Carroll money to target another potential Wilshere. Assuming there's no ready made foreign player available for a reasonable fee like Tiote.

[Andy]

So what is the point you're making? That we should overlook his contribution (goals, good team performances, good results with him in the team) on the basis that he isn't as good as Jack Wilshire and he isn't the kind of player who England would call upon?

 

Why isn't he the kind of player England would call upon then?

 

Because he hasn't been called upon by England?

 

So the reason why he's not the kind of player England would call upon is...."because he hasn't been?"

 

Why is it relevant? Some players are effective at club level without quite being international class -- Nolan is one of those players.

 

I don't think that anyone could say that Nolan as a goal scorer is inferior to any current England midfielder, in fact the stats show he's better than most. So it's obviously the other parts of his game which are considered lacking. That doesn't mean he can't be an effective club player, but the same limitations means while he's here we'll be limited as well.

 

Limited in what sense though? With him in the team we're playing well, defending quite solidly and creating chances for the forwards. He may not be a Champions League standard midfielder, but Jesus, we've just been promoted -- he's more than good enough to help with a Europa League push.

[TRon]

So what is the point you're making? That we should overlook his contribution (goals, good team performances, good results with him in the team) on the basis that he isn't as good as Jack Wilshire and he isn't the kind of player who England would call upon?

 

Why isn't he the kind of player England would call upon then?

 

Because he hasn't been called upon by England?

 

So the reason why he's not the kind of player England would call upon is...."because he hasn't been?"

 

Why is it relevant? Some players are effective at club level without quite being international class -- Nolan is one of those players.

 

I don't think that anyone could say that Nolan as a goal scorer is inferior to any current England midfielder, in fact the stats show he's better than most. So it's obviously the other parts of his game which are considered lacking. That doesn't mean he can't be an effective club player, but the same limitations means while he's here we'll be limited as well.

 

Limited in what sense though? With him in the team we're playing well, defending quite solidly and creating chances for the forwards. He may not be a Champions League standard midfielder, but Jesus, we've just been promoted -- he's more than good enough to help with a Europa League push.

 

I am ok with that but that's why I keep stressing it's more with a view to next season when we will be looking to improve a few positions. Leon Best has done well as a striker so far but I'm sure no one would suggest that we shouldn't sign another striker because we're going ok and he's scoring.

[Hughesy]

Who cares where his goals come from, as long as he's getting them? I'd rather him score 13 or 14 scrappy goals from set pieces than 3 wonder goals over the course of a season.

 

Whilst I appreciate what you are saying, that's a pretty simplistic way of looking at it.  First, you would have to consider whether they are goals that could have been scored by a) someone else in the team doing the same job (ie standing in front of the keeper at corners or b) in his position as a midfielder breaking from deep.

 

Secondly, you have to ask whether the goals he scores (having addressed the first point) outweigh the negativs he brings to the team.  Ie his lack of mobility and his inability to get around the pitch, but also his positives - ie leadership.

 

Personally, I am fairly ambivalent on Nolan.  He has won me over this season with his goals and his leadership qualities.  However, if we are to make a concerted push for Europe next season, I think he will be one of the weaker links in the team.

[Andy]

Who cares where his goals come from, as long as he's getting them? I'd rather him score 13 or 14 scrappy goals from set pieces than 3 wonder goals over the course of a season.

 

Whilst I appreciate what you are saying, that's a pretty simplistic way of looking at it.  First, you would have to consider whether they are goals that could have been scored by a) someone else in the team doing the same job (ie standing in front of the keeper at corners or b) in his position as a midfielder breaking from deep.

 

That's an even more simplistic way of looking at it tbh, because it's disregarding one of the most little-found elements in a central midfielder's game. How many other midfielders in Europe have scored as many from his position this season? I bet you could count them on one hand.

 

The debate that we're having in this thread about Nolan is deja vu -- the same discussions took place over Laurent Robert in the Robson era. Most people didn't realise the value of his goals and assists until it was too late.

 

 

[Hughesy]

Who cares where his goals come from, as long as he's getting them? I'd rather him score 13 or 14 scrappy goals from set pieces than 3 wonder goals over the course of a season.

 

Whilst I appreciate what you are saying, that's a pretty simplistic way of looking at it.  First, you would have to consider whether they are goals that could have been scored by a) someone else in the team doing the same job (ie standing in front of the keeper at corners or b) in his position as a midfielder breaking from deep.

 

That's an even more simplistic way of looking at it tbh, because it's disregarding one of the most little-found elements in a central midfielder's game. How many other midfielders in Europe have scored as many from his position this season? I bet you could count them on one hand.

 

The debate that we're having in this thread about Nolan is deja vu -- the same discussions took place over Laurent Robert in the Robson era. Most people didn't realise the value of his goals and assists until it was too late.

 

 

That's pretty much what i've said...?  Part a) addresses whether these goals could have been scored by someone else on the team had they taken up the set play position he did (which is controllable) and part b) addresses whether another midfielder playing in his position would score the amount of goals.  This would weigh up his finishing ability, his ability to time his runs, but then also the fact that that is his role in the team and he is given the licence to do so.

[Andy]

Who cares where his goals come from, as long as he's getting them? I'd rather him score 13 or 14 scrappy goals from set pieces than 3 wonder goals over the course of a season.

 

Whilst I appreciate what you are saying, that's a pretty simplistic way of looking at it.  First, you would have to consider whether they are goals that could have been scored by a) someone else in the team doing the same job (ie standing in front of the keeper at corners or b) in his position as a midfielder breaking from deep.

 

That's an even more simplistic way of looking at it tbh, because it's disregarding one of the most little-found elements in a central midfielder's game. How many other midfielders in Europe have scored as many from his position this season? I bet you could count them on one hand.

 

The debate that we're having in this thread about Nolan is deja vu -- the same discussions took place over Laurent Robert in the Robson era. Most people didn't realise the value of his goals and assists until it was too late.

 

 

That's pretty much what i've said...?  Part a) addresses whether these goals could have been scored by someone else on the team had they taken up the set play position he did (which is controllable) and part b) addresses whether another midfielder playing in his position would score the amount of goals.  This would weigh up his finishing ability, his ability to time his runs, but then also the fact that that is his role in the team and he is given the licence to do so.

 

Sorry, by responding to my defence of Nolan I actually thought you were using that as an argument against him -- saying that other players could bring the same qualities; which is obviously extremely debatable. 

 

I don't like the argument that he doesn't cover enough ground either, going back to your original post. He's not the most mobile (although nowhere near as immobile as people like to make out), but as I said a few pages back, mobility isn't the be-all/end-all in midfield and he has Tiote alongside him for that purpose anyway. More important is having the intelligence to be in the right places and to hold the shape of the team; Nolan excels at that more than anything else. It was very noticeable when he was absent earlier in the season - our midfield were poor even with Tiote in the middle.