TRon Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 No, it just means I'd far prefer to look for the next Tiote or HBA than sign a player like Nicky Butt who was also great for the team, great pro, fantastic fella yadda yadda yadda. Really? I must have been oblivious to Nicky Butt's notable influence on the dressing room spirit during his time at NUFC. As seasoned a pro as he is/was (and I'm sure he was a model pro for the younger squad players to learn from in training), I don't remember him doing anything out of the ordinary during his time as club captain (or beforehand). Can you post a link to the Nicky Butt stuff? Cheers. Otherwise, if you're not trying to deride Nolan's immeasurable contribution to the club in the past 18months, then can you explain the Butt reference? Yes I can explain the Butt reference. He was a player who was always one of the first names on the sheet and was constantly praised for his importance to the side by successive managers. But he was let go by Man U because he was crippling their need to play fast passing football. I see Nolan is in the press today quoted as saying he knows he'll never get picked for England despite being only 27. Why is that then? Why is a young lad like Jack Wilshere fast-tracked to international duty while Nolan for all his goals ignored? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I don't really follow the comparison between Butt and Nolan - Butt (bar one season when he'd been written off by EVERYONE) didn't do a great deal. He got named club captain seemingly out of respect (or by virtue of having more medals than the rest of the squad combined). Even when "successive managers" were praising Butt, his performances and contribution was generally derided or slated by supporters. Nolan may have started out on a similar path (written off before he'd started, see: Best, Leon as another example) but he's done far more for the club than you seem to be appreciating. Not going to respond to the random Wilshere comment. He's not going to be Laurent Robert either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 It's a shame you won't consider the Jack Wilshere comment because the reasons he's playing for Arsenal and England are the exact same reasons why Nolan never will. This isn't me "deriding" him. FWIW I don't think Nolan lacks ability, his passing isn't bad. His problem is his lack of mobility which is one of the reasons most of his goals come from set pieces - same again this weekend. The dead ball allows him to get into position which happens much less in free play because he doesn't have the acceleration to get beyond the strikers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Who cares where his goals come from, as long as he's getting them? I'd rather him score 13 or 14 scrappy goals from set pieces than 3 wonder goals over the course of a season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Who cares where his goals come from, as long as he's getting them? I'd rather him score 13 or 14 scrappy goals from set pieces than 3 wonder goals over the course of a season. Not the point I'm making really. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Who cares where his goals come from, as long as he's getting them? I'd rather him score 13 or 14 scrappy goals from set pieces than 3 wonder goals over the course of a season. Not the point I'm making really. what is the point you're making exactly, that you'd prefer us to have a better player than nolan? me too all you're really saying is nolan has limits to his game (which no-one disputes) and that his specific limitations are attributes you value highly in a footballer, i.e. pace and movement...other people value goals at the top and nolan is scoring them you've been calling nolan a fat pub footballer since he signed iirc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 So what is the point you're making? That we should overlook his contribution (goals, good team performances, good results with him in the team) on the basis that he isn't as good as Jack Wilshire and he isn't the kind of player who England would call upon? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I think the nail has been hit firmly on the head. FWIW, even as a Nolan "fanboy", I'd still prefer a 38-year old Zidane. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Why isn't he as good as Wilshere? Eh? Eh? Makes me sick. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benwell Lad Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 To replace Kevin Nolan would cost a lot of money. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdckelly Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 according to the journal hes the only english midfielder with 50 prem goals not to be capped by england Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 So what is the point you're making? That we should overlook his contribution (goals, good team performances, good results with him in the team) on the basis that he isn't as good as Jack Wilshire and he isn't the kind of player who England would call upon? Why isn't he the kind of player England would call upon then? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I totally imagined that Nolan did have an England cap. I can even picture him standing in the line singing the anthem. Either it was an U21 game, a dream or I'm going mental. Could be either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 So what is the point you're making? That we should overlook his contribution (goals, good team performances, good results with him in the team) on the basis that he isn't as good as Jack Wilshire and he isn't the kind of player who England would call upon? Why isn't he the kind of player England would call upon then? Because he hasn't been called upon by England? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I totally imagined that Nolan did have an England cap. I can even picture him standing in the line singing the anthem. Either it was an U21 game, a dream or I'm going mental. Could be either. He played for the U21s a couple of times. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fried Chicken Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Nolan for Qatar Captain @ 2022 WC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 So what is the point you're making? That we should overlook his contribution (goals, good team performances, good results with him in the team) on the basis that he isn't as good as Jack Wilshire and he isn't the kind of player who England would call upon? Why isn't he the kind of player England would call upon then? Because he hasn't been called upon by England? So the reason why he's not the kind of player England would call upon is...."because he hasn't been?" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wormy Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I've tried to keep up with the 'debate' on this last page, yet none of it makes sense for shit to me Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 So what is the point you're making? That we should overlook his contribution (goals, good team performances, good results with him in the team) on the basis that he isn't as good as Jack Wilshire and he isn't the kind of player who England would call upon? Why isn't he the kind of player England would call upon then? Because he hasn't been called upon by England? So the reason why he's not the kind of player England would call upon is...."because he hasn't been?" Why is it relevant? Some players are effective at club level without quite being international class -- Nolan is one of those players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 So are Gareth Barry, Matthew Upson, Emile Heskey, Jamie Carragher and a host of others mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 So what is the point you're making? That we should overlook his contribution (goals, good team performances, good results with him in the team) on the basis that he isn't as good as Jack Wilshire and he isn't the kind of player who England would call upon? Why isn't he the kind of player England would call upon then? Because he hasn't been called upon by England? So the reason why he's not the kind of player England would call upon is...."because he hasn't been?" Why is it relevant? Some players are effective at club level without quite being international class -- Nolan is one of those players. I don't think that anyone could say that Nolan as a goal scorer is inferior to any current England midfielder, in fact the stats show he's better than most. So it's obviously the other parts of his game which are considered lacking. That doesn't mean he can't be an effective club player, but the same limitations means while he's here we'll be limited as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 To replace Kevin Nolan would cost a lot of money. That just shows how important the position is and the value of a player who can do it well. Personally I would like us to use some of the Carroll money to target another potential Wilshere. Assuming there's no ready made foreign player available for a reasonable fee like Tiote. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 So what is the point you're making? That we should overlook his contribution (goals, good team performances, good results with him in the team) on the basis that he isn't as good as Jack Wilshire and he isn't the kind of player who England would call upon? Why isn't he the kind of player England would call upon then? Because he hasn't been called upon by England? So the reason why he's not the kind of player England would call upon is...."because he hasn't been?" Why is it relevant? Some players are effective at club level without quite being international class -- Nolan is one of those players. I don't think that anyone could say that Nolan as a goal scorer is inferior to any current England midfielder, in fact the stats show he's better than most. So it's obviously the other parts of his game which are considered lacking. That doesn't mean he can't be an effective club player, but the same limitations means while he's here we'll be limited as well. Limited in what sense though? With him in the team we're playing well, defending quite solidly and creating chances for the forwards. He may not be a Champions League standard midfielder, but Jesus, we've just been promoted -- he's more than good enough to help with a Europa League push. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 So what is the point you're making? That we should overlook his contribution (goals, good team performances, good results with him in the team) on the basis that he isn't as good as Jack Wilshire and he isn't the kind of player who England would call upon? Why isn't he the kind of player England would call upon then? Because he hasn't been called upon by England? So the reason why he's not the kind of player England would call upon is...."because he hasn't been?" Why is it relevant? Some players are effective at club level without quite being international class -- Nolan is one of those players. I don't think that anyone could say that Nolan as a goal scorer is inferior to any current England midfielder, in fact the stats show he's better than most. So it's obviously the other parts of his game which are considered lacking. That doesn't mean he can't be an effective club player, but the same limitations means while he's here we'll be limited as well. Limited in what sense though? With him in the team we're playing well, defending quite solidly and creating chances for the forwards. He may not be a Champions League standard midfielder, but Jesus, we've just been promoted -- he's more than good enough to help with a Europa League push. I am ok with that but that's why I keep stressing it's more with a view to next season when we will be looking to improve a few positions. Leon Best has done well as a striker so far but I'm sure no one would suggest that we shouldn't sign another striker because we're going ok and he's scoring. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughesy Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Who cares where his goals come from, as long as he's getting them? I'd rather him score 13 or 14 scrappy goals from set pieces than 3 wonder goals over the course of a season. Whilst I appreciate what you are saying, that's a pretty simplistic way of looking at it. First, you would have to consider whether they are goals that could have been scored by a) someone else in the team doing the same job (ie standing in front of the keeper at corners or b) in his position as a midfielder breaking from deep. Secondly, you have to ask whether the goals he scores (having addressed the first point) outweigh the negativs he brings to the team. Ie his lack of mobility and his inability to get around the pitch, but also his positives - ie leadership. Personally, I am fairly ambivalent on Nolan. He has won me over this season with his goals and his leadership qualities. However, if we are to make a concerted push for Europe next season, I think he will be one of the weaker links in the team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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