Kevin Nolan

[Hughesy]

Who's suggesting we should sell them?

 

No-one.  It's just that it makes for an easier argument for certain people.

[James]

Well yes I don't think anybody would disagree with that, the problem we have here is a decision between risking our togetherness/spirit/bottle whatever or paying over the odds on long contracts to players that would not get into any side aspiring for success. None of us no the intricate details of these negotiations but there is two sides to the argument. It's too simple to just say: "give them what they want otherwise the squad will all be unhappy and we'll go backwards"

 

Appreciate what they do, give them the contract, and have faith that the manager will persuade them to move on if they are no longer wanted.

 

Trouble is the board are scared of another Nicky Butt scenario, where despite being uncertainties over relegation or whether we even wanted him, Butt announced to them all that he was taking an option out to extend his own £50k a week contract, while taking out loads of bonuses.

 

Eh?  Hope the manager can persuade them to move on from their 50k plus a week 4 year deal??  How?  I know Pards is a silver tongued charmer, but I think you are overestimating his charm.

 

I don't think any sensible business model in the world is built around people being persuaded to leave their highly paid jobs.

 

I trust Barton and Nolan to leave the club if they are no longer wanted.

[Dave]

You can't tell me Dave you think Barton and Nolan in a couple of years time should be earning the same as Ben Arfa and Cabaye?

 

I've never seen Cabaye play mate, not even once. He could be a huge success, he could be a huge failure. It's utterly ridiculous to try and guess whether he'll be worth his wages this season, let alone in two year's time. If he even signs.

 

Ben Arfa has barely played for us and I'm sorry but despite his obvious quality on the ball he's still completely unproven for us. Not least because he's just broken his leg.

 

You couldn't pick a worse pair of players to compare the 'worth' of wages to.

[The Prophet]

Also it's Nolan that's knocked back the contract, nothing to say negotiations aren't ongoing.

[Guest bimpy474]

Nolan and Barton certainly aren't the future but they need to replaced slowly, Cabaye and whoever else we bring in should be given time to settle alongside them not as direct replacements, if we do well this season then it could turn out Barton and Nolan might earn new contracts, but their level of play will have to keep up the rest of the players/team, depending on whether we are doing very well of course.

[Baggio]

Nolan should never have been offered a new deal anyway, but whoever said about whether Nolan and Barton should be our starting 11 in 2 years time makes a valid point.

[Dokko]

I don't think many, if any, people are advocating getting rid of Nolan or Barton this summer. 

 

Most people are quite sensibly questioning the wisdom of securing them on lucrative, long term contracts up to a point in their career where their effectiveness would be in huge doubt for a variety of reasons.  Further to that, most people are also questioning whether either player has done enough over the course of their career with NUFC to date to warrant such a contract.

 

Quite straightforward really.

 

Exactly, no one is saying get rid of both this summer, of course it would be risky, almost as risky as bowing down to the demands of players at the cost of the club. Barton has a year, Nolan has two ffs, that doesn't equal losing both this summer. Besides Barton has already said he'll still give 100% to the cause, unless he's now a liar, then this season shouldn't be a worry.

 

[Hughesy]

Well yes I don't think anybody would disagree with that, the problem we have here is a decision between risking our togetherness/spirit/bottle whatever or paying over the odds on long contracts to players that would not get into any side aspiring for success. None of us no the intricate details of these negotiations but there is two sides to the argument. It's too simple to just say: "give them what they want otherwise the squad will all be unhappy and we'll go backwards"

 

Appreciate what they do, give them the contract, and have faith that the manager will persuade them to move on if they are no longer wanted.

 

Trouble is the board are scared of another Nicky Butt scenario, where despite being uncertainties over relegation or whether we even wanted him, Butt announced to them all that he was taking an option out to extend his own £50k a week contract, while taking out loads of bonuses.

 

Eh?  Hope the manager can persuade them to move on from their 50k plus a week 4 year deal??  How?  I know Pards is a silver tongued charmer, but I think you are overestimating his charm.

 

I don't think any sensible business model in the world is built around people being persuaded to leave their highly paid jobs.

 

I trust Barton and Nolan to leave the club if they are no longer wanted.

 

In that case, you must have a far greater degree of faith in mankind than I do.

[Wullie]

I suspect it would be fairly easy to negotiate a contract which will suit both parties. You can speculate on figures until the cows come home but Nolan doesn't strike me as the type to go upsetting the apple cart because he's not getting 60 grand a week - I can't imagine he came from huge wedge at Bolton for a start.

 

My view is that any decision is based on personalities rather than footballing sense, as usual.

[ponsaelius]

Well yes I don't think anybody would disagree with that, the problem we have here is a decision between risking our togetherness/spirit/bottle whatever or paying over the odds on long contracts to players that would not get into any side aspiring for success. None of us no the intricate details of these negotiations but there is two sides to the argument. It's too simple to just say: "give them what they want otherwise the squad will all be unhappy and we'll go backwards"

 

Appreciate what they do, give them the contract, and have faith that the manager will persuade them to move on if they are no longer wanted.

 

Trouble is the board are scared of another Nicky Butt scenario, where despite being uncertainties over relegation or whether we even wanted him, Butt announced to them all that he was taking an option out to extend his own £50k a week contract, while taking out loads of bonuses.

 

Eh?  Hope the manager can persuade them to move on from their 50k plus a week 4 year deal??  How?  I know Pards is a silver tongued charmer, but I think you are overestimating his charm.

 

I don't think any sensible business model in the world is built around people being persuaded to leave their highly paid jobs.

 

I trust Barton and Nolan to leave the club if they are no longer wanted.

 

This is really not how football or any business works. 

[Dave]

I see people talking about Nolan being on huge wages already btw. Who gave him this ridiculously lucrative contract, out of interest?

[James]

The most sensible approaches for any player whose contract takes them to over 31 in my view are:

 

1. Contract lasts until season end and player is 31. Option for an extra year automatically applied each time he plays 20 games.

2. Wage after 31 gets halved, but the other half becomes a bonus for each week a player plays in.

[The Prophet]

Well yes I don't think anybody would disagree with that, the problem we have here is a decision between risking our togetherness/spirit/bottle whatever or paying over the odds on long contracts to players that would not get into any side aspiring for success. None of us no the intricate details of these negotiations but there is two sides to the argument. It's too simple to just say: "give them what they want otherwise the squad will all be unhappy and we'll go backwards"

 

Appreciate what they do, give them the contract, and have faith that the manager will persuade them to move on if they are no longer wanted.

 

Trouble is the board are scared of another Nicky Butt scenario, where despite being uncertainties over relegation or whether we even wanted him, Butt announced to them all that he was taking an option out to extend his own £50k a week contract, while taking out loads of bonuses.

 

Eh?  Hope the manager can persuade them to move on from their 50k plus a week 4 year deal??  How?  I know Pards is a silver tongued charmer, but I think you are overestimating his charm.

 

I don't think any sensible business model in the world is built around people being persuaded to leave their highly paid jobs.

 

I trust Barton and Nolan to leave the club if they are no longer wanted.

 

[Baggio]

I see people talking about Nolan being on huge wages already btw. Who gave him this ridiculously lucrative contract, out of interest?

 

I don't see that as being a problem at the moment as they are the backbone of the team, however in a few years when the team would have hopefully pushed forward we will be in a position where we've got better players in that position in the starting 11 but at the same time we can't afford to have squad players earning that much.

[Optimistic Nut]

I see people talking about Nolan being on huge wages already btw. Who gave him this ridiculously lucrative contract, out of interest?

 

He was at the age and signed for first team where he'd command that sort of wage. When he's 31 and more than likely on the bench he should be paid accordingly.

[TRon]

 

I never said it boiled down to foreigners vs English, which should be fairly fucking obvious. Players who have a clear affiliation for the club, whether it be Barton, Nolan or Solano are more likely to put their foot in, chase down a lost cause in the last minute, inspire the other players and that makes these players absolutely essential. Do you trust Cabaye to drag us out of a rut when the chips are down? Personally I wouldn't know because I've never seen a second of him in action and therefore replacing Barton or Nolan with him is a massive gamble. It shouldn't be him in and them out, he should be coming in to compliment, not replace and the amount of people happy to see the latter happen is frightening.

 

The idea of a Man Utd squad under Ferguson built mainly on foreign players or flair players is absolutely laughable. Arsenal's squad is supremely talented but until they get some spine and bottle in there, they will not win anything, their goal is not like ours at the moment, it is to win and they are failing miserably since Campbell, Vieira, Seaman, Parlour, Keown have left. I can't believe I'm having to explain this again, it really is astonishingly simple stuff.

 

Letting Barton and Nolan go this summer would be yet another ridiculous gamble.

 

It would be nice to be able to sign a blank cheque to keep everyone on long extended contracts and buy lots more expensive players at the same time. Unfortunately that doesn't happen anywhere without arab/russian billionaire owners. If there's a limit on the spending how do you propose we recruit new players at the same time as handing out long contracts to the likes of Nolan and Barton? Don't bid for Gervinho and bid for someone £4m cheaper so we can hand that money to the players already here?

 

 

[Frazzle]

Why is this contract even being renegotiated now?  What's the rush?

[Wullie]

 

I never said it boiled down to foreigners vs English, which should be fairly fucking obvious. Players who have a clear affiliation for the club, whether it be Barton, Nolan or Solano are more likely to put their foot in, chase down a lost cause in the last minute, inspire the other players and that makes these players absolutely essential. Do you trust Cabaye to drag us out of a rut when the chips are down? Personally I wouldn't know because I've never seen a second of him in action and therefore replacing Barton or Nolan with him is a massive gamble. It shouldn't be him in and them out, he should be coming in to compliment, not replace and the amount of people happy to see the latter happen is frightening.

 

The idea of a Man Utd squad under Ferguson built mainly on foreign players or flair players is absolutely laughable. Arsenal's squad is supremely talented but until they get some spine and bottle in there, they will not win anything, their goal is not like ours at the moment, it is to win and they are failing miserably since Campbell, Vieira, Seaman, Parlour, Keown have left. I can't believe I'm having to explain this again, it really is astonishingly simple stuff.

 

Letting Barton and Nolan go this summer would be yet another ridiculous gamble.

 

It would be nice to be able to sign a blank cheque to keep everyone on long extended contracts and buy lots more expensive players at the same time. Unfortunately that doesn't happen anywhere without arab/russian billionaire owners. If there's a limit on the spending how do you propose we recruit new players at the same time as handing out long contracts to the likes of Nolan and Barton? Don't bid for Gervinho and bid for someone £4m cheaper so we can hand that money to the players already here?

 

Why is there a limit on spending when we've just sold the family silver for £35m?

 

Keeping your main first team players and buying new ones doesn't happen anywhere else? Righto.

 

 

[Baggio]

 

I never said it boiled down to foreigners vs English, which should be fairly fucking obvious. Players who have a clear affiliation for the club, whether it be Barton, Nolan or Solano are more likely to put their foot in, chase down a lost cause in the last minute, inspire the other players and that makes these players absolutely essential. Do you trust Cabaye to drag us out of a rut when the chips are down? Personally I wouldn't know because I've never seen a second of him in action and therefore replacing Barton or Nolan with him is a massive gamble. It shouldn't be him in and them out, he should be coming in to compliment, not replace and the amount of people happy to see the latter happen is frightening.

 

The idea of a Man Utd squad under Ferguson built mainly on foreign players or flair players is absolutely laughable. Arsenal's squad is supremely talented but until they get some spine and bottle in there, they will not win anything, their goal is not like ours at the moment, it is to win and they are failing miserably since Campbell, Vieira, Seaman, Parlour, Keown have left. I can't believe I'm having to explain this again, it really is astonishingly simple stuff.

 

Letting Barton and Nolan go this summer would be yet another ridiculous gamble.

 

It would be nice to be able to sign a blank cheque to keep everyone on long extended contracts and buy lots more expensive players at the same time. Unfortunately that doesn't happen anywhere without arab/russian billionaire owners. If there's a limit on the spending how do you propose we recruit new players at the same time as handing out long contracts to the likes of Nolan and Barton? Don't bid for Gervinho and bid for someone £4m cheaper so we can hand that money to the players already here?

 

Why is there a limit on spending when we've just sold the family silver for £35m?

 

Keeping your main first team players and buying new ones doesn't happen anywhere else? Righto.

 

 

 

So you're happy to blow the money we got for Carroll on long term deals for Nolan and Barton?

 

How are we supposed to progress doing that?

[Optimistic Nut]

You can't tell me Dave you think Barton and Nolan in a couple of years time should be earning the same as Ben Arfa and Cabaye?

 

I've never seen Cabaye play mate, not even once. He could be a huge success, he could be a huge failure. It's utterly ridiculous to try and guess whether he'll be worth his wages this season, let alone in two year's time. If he even signs.

 

Ben Arfa has barely played for us and I'm sorry but despite his obvious quality on the ball he's still completely unproven for us. Not least because he's just broken his leg.

 

You couldn't pick a worse pair of players to compare the 'worth' of wages to.

Perfect choice to compare with imo. Ben Arfa and Cabaye are in the prime of their career and will be viewed as key first team players. Will that apply to Nolan and Barton when their contracts are up?

[Wullie]

 

I never said it boiled down to foreigners vs English, which should be fairly fucking obvious. Players who have a clear affiliation for the club, whether it be Barton, Nolan or Solano are more likely to put their foot in, chase down a lost cause in the last minute, inspire the other players and that makes these players absolutely essential. Do you trust Cabaye to drag us out of a rut when the chips are down? Personally I wouldn't know because I've never seen a second of him in action and therefore replacing Barton or Nolan with him is a massive gamble. It shouldn't be him in and them out, he should be coming in to compliment, not replace and the amount of people happy to see the latter happen is frightening.

 

The idea of a Man Utd squad under Ferguson built mainly on foreign players or flair players is absolutely laughable. Arsenal's squad is supremely talented but until they get some spine and bottle in there, they will not win anything, their goal is not like ours at the moment, it is to win and they are failing miserably since Campbell, Vieira, Seaman, Parlour, Keown have left. I can't believe I'm having to explain this again, it really is astonishingly simple stuff.

 

Letting Barton and Nolan go this summer would be yet another ridiculous gamble.

 

It would be nice to be able to sign a blank cheque to keep everyone on long extended contracts and buy lots more expensive players at the same time. Unfortunately that doesn't happen anywhere without arab/russian billionaire owners. If there's a limit on the spending how do you propose we recruit new players at the same time as handing out long contracts to the likes of Nolan and Barton? Don't bid for Gervinho and bid for someone £4m cheaper so we can hand that money to the players already here?

 

Why is there a limit on spending when we've just sold the family silver for £35m?

 

Keeping your main first team players and buying new ones doesn't happen anywhere else? Righto.

 

 

 

So you're happy to blow the money we got for Carroll on long term deals for Nolan and Barton?

 

How are we supposed to progress doing that?

 

Fucking hell, how much are we planning on paying them?

 

I don't think we give them it all in one lump sum btw. Not sure, so correct me if I'm wrong.

[Wullie]

You can't tell me Dave you think Barton and Nolan in a couple of years time should be earning the same as Ben Arfa and Cabaye?

 

I've never seen Cabaye play mate, not even once. He could be a huge success, he could be a huge failure. It's utterly ridiculous to try and guess whether he'll be worth his wages this season, let alone in two year's time. If he even signs.

 

Ben Arfa has barely played for us and I'm sorry but despite his obvious quality on the ball he's still completely unproven for us. Not least because he's just broken his leg.

 

You couldn't pick a worse pair of players to compare the 'worth' of wages to.

Perfect choice to compare with imo. Ben Arfa and Cabaye are in the prime of their career and will be viewed as key first team players. Will that apply to Nolan and Barton when their contracts are up?

 

And what if they're shit or disruptive? Then what?

[Hughesy]

If Barton was to sign a 4 year deal at 50k a week - 10.4 million.

 

So quite a lot.

[Dave]

I see people talking about Nolan being on huge wages already btw. Who gave him this ridiculously lucrative contract, out of interest?

 

He was at the age and signed for first team where he'd command that sort of wage. When he's 31 and more than likely on the bench he should be paid accordingly.

 

So a 26 year old Kevin Nolan coming from (read: being dumped by) Bolton Wanderers for £4m commands around £50k, but we're hoping to find better players coming from a better clubs for more money but commanding less, two years down the line with all these wankers spending money like it's going out of fashion?

 

I'm sorry but it just doesn't add up. I realise this doesn't quite relate to the current discussion, but I just find it strange that one minute we're paying £50k for Kevin Nolan (who was absolutely rubbish at the time) and the next flogging in-form hot property Andy Carroll saying we can't afford to pay him the going rate.

[Hughesy]

You can't tell me Dave you think Barton and Nolan in a couple of years time should be earning the same as Ben Arfa and Cabaye?

 

I've never seen Cabaye play mate, not even once. He could be a huge success, he could be a huge failure. It's utterly ridiculous to try and guess whether he'll be worth his wages this season, let alone in two year's time. If he even signs.

 

Ben Arfa has barely played for us and I'm sorry but despite his obvious quality on the ball he's still completely unproven for us. Not least because he's just broken his leg.

 

You couldn't pick a worse pair of players to compare the 'worth' of wages to.

Perfect choice to compare with imo. Ben Arfa and Cabaye are in the prime of their career and will be viewed as key first team players. Will that apply to Nolan and Barton when their contracts are up?

 

And what if they're s*** or disruptive? Then what?

 

Because Barton hasn't been a disruptive player?