Kevin Nolan

[TRon]

 

I never said it boiled down to foreigners vs English, which should be fairly fucking obvious. Players who have a clear affiliation for the club, whether it be Barton, Nolan or Solano are more likely to put their foot in, chase down a lost cause in the last minute, inspire the other players and that makes these players absolutely essential. Do you trust Cabaye to drag us out of a rut when the chips are down? Personally I wouldn't know because I've never seen a second of him in action and therefore replacing Barton or Nolan with him is a massive gamble. It shouldn't be him in and them out, he should be coming in to compliment, not replace and the amount of people happy to see the latter happen is frightening.

 

The idea of a Man Utd squad under Ferguson built mainly on foreign players or flair players is absolutely laughable. Arsenal's squad is supremely talented but until they get some spine and bottle in there, they will not win anything, their goal is not like ours at the moment, it is to win and they are failing miserably since Campbell, Vieira, Seaman, Parlour, Keown have left. I can't believe I'm having to explain this again, it really is astonishingly simple stuff.

 

Letting Barton and Nolan go this summer would be yet another ridiculous gamble.

 

It would be nice to be able to sign a blank cheque to keep everyone on long extended contracts and buy lots more expensive players at the same time. Unfortunately that doesn't happen anywhere without arab/russian billionaire owners. If there's a limit on the spending how do you propose we recruit new players at the same time as handing out long contracts to the likes of Nolan and Barton? Don't bid for Gervinho and bid for someone £4m cheaper so we can hand that money to the players already here?

 

Why is there a limit on spending when we've just sold the family silver for £35m?

 

Keeping your main first team players and buying new ones doesn't happen anywhere else? Righto.

 

 

 

But no one is bombing them out, they just aren't being given cushy long contract extensions. It's debatable whether either player can even cut it in central midfield for much longer as you yourself have pointed out pretty often. We had this business with Owen where Keegan wanted the board to hand out a mega new deal because he was so important. Sorry but for me when players are showing signs of decline, I don't want to be looking at them as long term central figures at the club.

[Dave]

You can't tell me Dave you think Barton and Nolan in a couple of years time should be earning the same as Ben Arfa and Cabaye?

 

I've never seen Cabaye play mate, not even once. He could be a huge success, he could be a huge failure. It's utterly ridiculous to try and guess whether he'll be worth his wages this season, let alone in two year's time. If he even signs.

 

Ben Arfa has barely played for us and I'm sorry but despite his obvious quality on the ball he's still completely unproven for us. Not least because he's just broken his leg.

 

You couldn't pick a worse pair of players to compare the 'worth' of wages to.

Perfect choice to compare with imo. Ben Arfa and Cabaye are in the prime of their career and will be viewed as key first team players. Will that apply to Nolan and Barton when their contracts are up?

 

And what if they're shit or disruptive? Then what?

 

Doesn't happen under this regime mate. Only happened under the last lot, and we're still paying for it despite none of them still being here.

[Wullie]

If Barton was to sign a 4 year deal at 50k a week - 10.4 million.

 

So quite a lot.

 

Ignoring the fact that he wants three years and you've no idea how much he wants...

 

He gets that all at once does he? And the Sky money stops coming in too does it in the next four years? And the gates dwindle to 0 in the next four years do they?

 

This idea that we have to let key players go because they might have to get paid is absolutely

[TRon]

You can't tell me Dave you think Barton and Nolan in a couple of years time should be earning the same as Ben Arfa and Cabaye?

 

I've never seen Cabaye play mate, not even once. He could be a huge success, he could be a huge failure. It's utterly ridiculous to try and guess whether he'll be worth his wages this season, let alone in two year's time. If he even signs.

 

Ben Arfa has barely played for us and I'm sorry but despite his obvious quality on the ball he's still completely unproven for us. Not least because he's just broken his leg.

 

You couldn't pick a worse pair of players to compare the 'worth' of wages to.

Perfect choice to compare with imo. Ben Arfa and Cabaye are in the prime of their career and will be viewed as key first team players. Will that apply to Nolan and Barton when their contracts are up?

 

And what if they're shit or disruptive? Then what?

 

what if they are? Would you prefer we didn't sign them and stuck with safe and tested?

[Wullie]

 

I never said it boiled down to foreigners vs English, which should be fairly fucking obvious. Players who have a clear affiliation for the club, whether it be Barton, Nolan or Solano are more likely to put their foot in, chase down a lost cause in the last minute, inspire the other players and that makes these players absolutely essential. Do you trust Cabaye to drag us out of a rut when the chips are down? Personally I wouldn't know because I've never seen a second of him in action and therefore replacing Barton or Nolan with him is a massive gamble. It shouldn't be him in and them out, he should be coming in to compliment, not replace and the amount of people happy to see the latter happen is frightening.

 

The idea of a Man Utd squad under Ferguson built mainly on foreign players or flair players is absolutely laughable. Arsenal's squad is supremely talented but until they get some spine and bottle in there, they will not win anything, their goal is not like ours at the moment, it is to win and they are failing miserably since Campbell, Vieira, Seaman, Parlour, Keown have left. I can't believe I'm having to explain this again, it really is astonishingly simple stuff.

 

Letting Barton and Nolan go this summer would be yet another ridiculous gamble.

 

It would be nice to be able to sign a blank cheque to keep everyone on long extended contracts and buy lots more expensive players at the same time. Unfortunately that doesn't happen anywhere without arab/russian billionaire owners. If there's a limit on the spending how do you propose we recruit new players at the same time as handing out long contracts to the likes of Nolan and Barton? Don't bid for Gervinho and bid for someone £4m cheaper so we can hand that money to the players already here?

 

Why is there a limit on spending when we've just sold the family silver for £35m?

 

Keeping your main first team players and buying new ones doesn't happen anywhere else? Righto.

 

 

 

But no one is bombing them out, they just aren't being given cushy long contract extensions. It's debatable whether either player can even cut it in central midfield for much longer as you yourself have pointed out pretty often. We had this business with Owen where Keegan wanted the board to hand out a mega new deal because he was so important. Sorry but for me when players are showing signs of decline, I don't want to be looking at them as long term central figures at the club.

 

Signs of decline?

 

They've just had the best seasons of their careers.

[Wullie]

You can't tell me Dave you think Barton and Nolan in a couple of years time should be earning the same as Ben Arfa and Cabaye?

 

I've never seen Cabaye play mate, not even once. He could be a huge success, he could be a huge failure. It's utterly ridiculous to try and guess whether he'll be worth his wages this season, let alone in two year's time. If he even signs.

 

Ben Arfa has barely played for us and I'm sorry but despite his obvious quality on the ball he's still completely unproven for us. Not least because he's just broken his leg.

 

You couldn't pick a worse pair of players to compare the 'worth' of wages to.

Perfect choice to compare with imo. Ben Arfa and Cabaye are in the prime of their career and will be viewed as key first team players. Will that apply to Nolan and Barton when their contracts are up?

 

And what if they're shit or disruptive? Then what?

 

what if they are? Would you prefer we didn't sign them and stuck with safe and tested?

 

I'd rather try both and shift Ryan Taylor and Alan Smith. That's what I said, try reading it again.

[ponsaelius]

There's perfectly acceptable arguments for both sides of this debate tbh.

 

Edit: Which is probably the main reason we've ended up at this impasse in the first place.

[Optimistic Nut]

Barton was as good as gold, injury free and inspirational of course before last season.

[The Prophet]

People are jumping the gun a bit here. Nolan has not suggest he is leaving, nor is there any suggestion the club won't propose another offer. It's completely different to the Barton situation where it is the club who didn't offer him a contract. On top of that Nolan still has two years left on his contract. I think any talk of replacing him in the short term at least is a bit premature.

 

While I agree with a lot of what Wullie has said in recent posts I also think an over-looked aspect of this is what these two players owe the club and the fans. They've performed at the top level for a year, this is after a year/half a year in Nolan's case of piss poor performances leading to relegation. Any debate about the terms of the contract themselves are speculation, but it's something Nolan and partiuclarly Barton need to bear in mind when talking of their futures.

[Dave]

Barton was as good as gold, injury free and inspirational of course before last season.

 

Why not get rid when he's shit and acting the prick then?

 

Bad season: IN!

Good season: OUT!

 

[The Prophet]

There's perfectly acceptable arguments for both sides of this debate tbh.

 

[TRon]

 

I never said it boiled down to foreigners vs English, which should be fairly fucking obvious. Players who have a clear affiliation for the club, whether it be Barton, Nolan or Solano are more likely to put their foot in, chase down a lost cause in the last minute, inspire the other players and that makes these players absolutely essential. Do you trust Cabaye to drag us out of a rut when the chips are down? Personally I wouldn't know because I've never seen a second of him in action and therefore replacing Barton or Nolan with him is a massive gamble. It shouldn't be him in and them out, he should be coming in to compliment, not replace and the amount of people happy to see the latter happen is frightening.

 

The idea of a Man Utd squad under Ferguson built mainly on foreign players or flair players is absolutely laughable. Arsenal's squad is supremely talented but until they get some spine and bottle in there, they will not win anything, their goal is not like ours at the moment, it is to win and they are failing miserably since Campbell, Vieira, Seaman, Parlour, Keown have left. I can't believe I'm having to explain this again, it really is astonishingly simple stuff.

 

Letting Barton and Nolan go this summer would be yet another ridiculous gamble.

 

It would be nice to be able to sign a blank cheque to keep everyone on long extended contracts and buy lots more expensive players at the same time. Unfortunately that doesn't happen anywhere without arab/russian billionaire owners. If there's a limit on the spending how do you propose we recruit new players at the same time as handing out long contracts to the likes of Nolan and Barton? Don't bid for Gervinho and bid for someone £4m cheaper so we can hand that money to the players already here?

 

Why is there a limit on spending when we've just sold the family silver for £35m?

 

Keeping your main first team players and buying new ones doesn't happen anywhere else? Righto.

 

 

 

But no one is bombing them out, they just aren't being given cushy long contract extensions. It's debatable whether either player can even cut it in central midfield for much longer as you yourself have pointed out pretty often. We had this business with Owen where Keegan wanted the board to hand out a mega new deal because he was so important. Sorry but for me when players are showing signs of decline, I don't want to be looking at them as long term central figures at the club.

 

Signs of decline?

 

They've just had the best seasons of their careers.

 

but you don't think Barton can play in central midfield any more? Why not? And Nolan getting on the end of a few set pieces isn't going to make me wonder why he's a stone heavier than in his Bolton days. Getting fatter is a sign of decline for me, don't know about you.

[Guest neesy111]

If Barton was to sign a 4 year deal at 50k a week - 10.4 million.

 

So quite a lot.

 

Ignoring the fact that he wants three years and you've no idea how much he wants...

 

He gets that all at once does he? And the Sky money stops coming in too does it in the next four years? And the gates dwindle to 0 in the next four years do they?

 

This idea that we have to let key players go because they might have to get paid is absolutely

 

The idea of paying players over their worth and keeping them on big contracts just to keep them happy but to the detriment of the club long term.  Is even more laughable tbh.

[Wullie]

Barton was as good as gold, injury free and inspirational of course before last season.

 

Did anybody say that he was? I'd happily have seen him gone last summer but having reinvigorated himself in a new position, I think the sensible thing to do is to base decisions on current form rather than past - otherwise what's the point in trying to improve players?

 

Let's sell Coloccini for being shit two years ago shall we?

[TRon]

You can't tell me Dave you think Barton and Nolan in a couple of years time should be earning the same as Ben Arfa and Cabaye?

 

I've never seen Cabaye play mate, not even once. He could be a huge success, he could be a huge failure. It's utterly ridiculous to try and guess whether he'll be worth his wages this season, let alone in two year's time. If he even signs.

 

Ben Arfa has barely played for us and I'm sorry but despite his obvious quality on the ball he's still completely unproven for us. Not least because he's just broken his leg.

 

You couldn't pick a worse pair of players to compare the 'worth' of wages to.

Perfect choice to compare with imo. Ben Arfa and Cabaye are in the prime of their career and will be viewed as key first team players. Will that apply to Nolan and Barton when their contracts are up?

 

And what if they're shit or disruptive? Then what?

 

what if they are? Would you prefer we didn't sign them and stuck with safe and tested?

 

I'd rather try both and shift Ryan Taylor and Alan Smith. That's what I said, try reading it again.

 

Yes. Selling Smith is always a good and realistic option. Beats me why we haven't done it. Good point.

[Mr Logic]

This is an argument over nothing really. Nolan is still here for another 2 years as it stands, they haven't put him against a wall and shot him!

 

Is he an influential player. YES

 

Will he be worth the same 2 seasons from now? PROBABLY NOT

 

Do we know the terms of the contract just refused, or wether another will be offered? NO

 

Let's have a mass barney about it.

[Dave]

If Barton was to sign a 4 year deal at 50k a week - 10.4 million.

 

So quite a lot.

 

Ignoring the fact that he wants three years and you've no idea how much he wants...

 

He gets that all at once does he? And the Sky money stops coming in too does it in the next four years? And the gates dwindle to 0 in the next four years do they?

 

This idea that we have to let key players go because they might have to get paid is absolutely

 

The idea of paying players over their worth and keeping them on big contracts just to keep them happy but to the detriment of the club long term.  Is even more laughable tbh.

[Wullie]

 

I never said it boiled down to foreigners vs English, which should be fairly fucking obvious. Players who have a clear affiliation for the club, whether it be Barton, Nolan or Solano are more likely to put their foot in, chase down a lost cause in the last minute, inspire the other players and that makes these players absolutely essential. Do you trust Cabaye to drag us out of a rut when the chips are down? Personally I wouldn't know because I've never seen a second of him in action and therefore replacing Barton or Nolan with him is a massive gamble. It shouldn't be him in and them out, he should be coming in to compliment, not replace and the amount of people happy to see the latter happen is frightening.

 

The idea of a Man Utd squad under Ferguson built mainly on foreign players or flair players is absolutely laughable. Arsenal's squad is supremely talented but until they get some spine and bottle in there, they will not win anything, their goal is not like ours at the moment, it is to win and they are failing miserably since Campbell, Vieira, Seaman, Parlour, Keown have left. I can't believe I'm having to explain this again, it really is astonishingly simple stuff.

 

Letting Barton and Nolan go this summer would be yet another ridiculous gamble.

 

It would be nice to be able to sign a blank cheque to keep everyone on long extended contracts and buy lots more expensive players at the same time. Unfortunately that doesn't happen anywhere without arab/russian billionaire owners. If there's a limit on the spending how do you propose we recruit new players at the same time as handing out long contracts to the likes of Nolan and Barton? Don't bid for Gervinho and bid for someone £4m cheaper so we can hand that money to the players already here?

 

Why is there a limit on spending when we've just sold the family silver for £35m?

 

Keeping your main first team players and buying new ones doesn't happen anywhere else? Righto.

 

 

 

But no one is bombing them out, they just aren't being given cushy long contract extensions. It's debatable whether either player can even cut it in central midfield for much longer as you yourself have pointed out pretty often. We had this business with Owen where Keegan wanted the board to hand out a mega new deal because he was so important. Sorry but for me when players are showing signs of decline, I don't want to be looking at them as long term central figures at the club.

 

Signs of decline?

 

They've just had the best seasons of their careers.

 

but you don't think Barton can play in central midfield any more? Why not? And Nolan getting on the end of a few set pieces isn't going to make me wonder why he's a stone heavier than in his Bolton days. Getting fatter is a sign of decline for me, don't know about you.

 

I don't think Barton's ever been able to play in central midfield, it's not his game. Fuck all to do with his fitness levels. He's 28 ffs not 38.

[Baggio]

 

I never said it boiled down to foreigners vs English, which should be fairly fucking obvious. Players who have a clear affiliation for the club, whether it be Barton, Nolan or Solano are more likely to put their foot in, chase down a lost cause in the last minute, inspire the other players and that makes these players absolutely essential. Do you trust Cabaye to drag us out of a rut when the chips are down? Personally I wouldn't know because I've never seen a second of him in action and therefore replacing Barton or Nolan with him is a massive gamble. It shouldn't be him in and them out, he should be coming in to compliment, not replace and the amount of people happy to see the latter happen is frightening.

 

The idea of a Man Utd squad under Ferguson built mainly on foreign players or flair players is absolutely laughable. Arsenal's squad is supremely talented but until they get some spine and bottle in there, they will not win anything, their goal is not like ours at the moment, it is to win and they are failing miserably since Campbell, Vieira, Seaman, Parlour, Keown have left. I can't believe I'm having to explain this again, it really is astonishingly simple stuff.

 

Letting Barton and Nolan go this summer would be yet another ridiculous gamble.

 

It would be nice to be able to sign a blank cheque to keep everyone on long extended contracts and buy lots more expensive players at the same time. Unfortunately that doesn't happen anywhere without arab/russian billionaire owners. If there's a limit on the spending how do you propose we recruit new players at the same time as handing out long contracts to the likes of Nolan and Barton? Don't bid for Gervinho and bid for someone £4m cheaper so we can hand that money to the players already here?

 

Why is there a limit on spending when we've just sold the family silver for £35m?

 

Keeping your main first team players and buying new ones doesn't happen anywhere else? Righto.

 

 

 

So you're happy to blow the money we got for Carroll on long term deals for Nolan and Barton?

 

How are we supposed to progress doing that?

 

Fucking hell, how much are we planning on paying them?

 

I don't think we give them it all in one lump sum btw. Not sure, so correct me if I'm wrong.

 

As someone pointed out 4 years is worth £10.4 million, so presuming both were on £50k per week  then to give them both a 2 year extension that is what it will cost us.

 

As for paying it all at once, I haven't suggested we were, it was you who brought up the Carroll money in relation to us having a limit on spending.

 

If the club wants to move forward then it will need better than these two and we can't afford squad players to be sat on the bench earning £50k per week.

[Hughesy]

If Barton was to sign a 4 year deal at 50k a week - 10.4 million.

 

So quite a lot.

 

Ignoring the fact that he wants three years and you've no idea how much he wants...

 

He gets that all at once does he? And the Sky money stops coming in too does it in the next four years? And the gates dwindle to 0 in the next four years do they?

 

This idea that we have to let key players go because they might have to get paid is absolutely

 

Ummm - no, he doesn't get that all at once.  Struggling to see where I have said that.  Could you let me know?  Maybe you could do the same with your slightly senile comments about Sky money and attendances?

 

I could be wrong, but doesn't Barton want another three years on top of his existing 1 year left?  Doesn't that make a 4 year contract?  Again, let me know if I am wrong.

 

You can also tack on bonuses, signing on fees and agent's fees if we are being a bit picky.

[Wullie]

People are jumping the gun a bit here. Nolan has not suggest he is leaving, nor is there any suggestion the club won't propose another offer. It's completely different to the Barton situation where it is the club who didn't offer him a contract. On top of that Nolan still has two years left on his contract. I think any talk of replacing him in the short term at least is a bit premature.

 

While I agree with a lot of what Wullie has said in recent posts I also think an over-looked aspect of this is what these two players owe the club and the fans. They've performed at the top level for a year, this is after a year/half a year in Nolan's case of piss poor performances leading to relegation. Any debate about the terms of the contract themselves are speculation, but it's something Nolan and partiuclarly Barton need to bear in mind when talking of their futures.

 

Very harsh on Nolan, I don't think he "owes" us anything. Barton, fair enough.

[James]

Seems like a lot of people are making the usual mistake of blindly assuming that anyone we sign to replace them will fit in straight away, have the right mentality, get on well with team mates etc etc.

 

We have all this in our team right now. Yes we do need quality, but we are in a situation where it can be infused slowly. We've tried fixing everything that is wrong with the team too quickly in the past, changed too many players and it just resulted in a downwards spiral.

 

The way to improve our team is to retain Barton and Nolan and do our best to keep Enrique.

 

Players that aren't necessary invaluable would be Jonas (likely to be the fall guy for Ben Arfa), the strikers, and the other centre back (i.e. not Coloccini)

 

One striker and one attacking wide player are enough to get us from 12th to 8th. However try to replace Nolan and Barton with supposedly better players so half our first team is different could take us down from 12th to 16th.

[Dave]

 

I never said it boiled down to foreigners vs English, which should be fairly fucking obvious. Players who have a clear affiliation for the club, whether it be Barton, Nolan or Solano are more likely to put their foot in, chase down a lost cause in the last minute, inspire the other players and that makes these players absolutely essential. Do you trust Cabaye to drag us out of a rut when the chips are down? Personally I wouldn't know because I've never seen a second of him in action and therefore replacing Barton or Nolan with him is a massive gamble. It shouldn't be him in and them out, he should be coming in to compliment, not replace and the amount of people happy to see the latter happen is frightening.

 

The idea of a Man Utd squad under Ferguson built mainly on foreign players or flair players is absolutely laughable. Arsenal's squad is supremely talented but until they get some spine and bottle in there, they will not win anything, their goal is not like ours at the moment, it is to win and they are failing miserably since Campbell, Vieira, Seaman, Parlour, Keown have left. I can't believe I'm having to explain this again, it really is astonishingly simple stuff.

 

Letting Barton and Nolan go this summer would be yet another ridiculous gamble.

 

It would be nice to be able to sign a blank cheque to keep everyone on long extended contracts and buy lots more expensive players at the same time. Unfortunately that doesn't happen anywhere without arab/russian billionaire owners. If there's a limit on the spending how do you propose we recruit new players at the same time as handing out long contracts to the likes of Nolan and Barton? Don't bid for Gervinho and bid for someone £4m cheaper so we can hand that money to the players already here?

 

Why is there a limit on spending when we've just sold the family silver for £35m?

 

Keeping your main first team players and buying new ones doesn't happen anywhere else? Righto.

 

 

 

So you're happy to blow the money we got for Carroll on long term deals for Nolan and Barton?

 

How are we supposed to progress doing that?

 

Fucking hell, how much are we planning on paying them?

 

I don't think we give them it all in one lump sum btw. Not sure, so correct me if I'm wrong.

 

As someone pointed out 4 years is worth £10.4 million, so presuming both were on £50k per week  then to give them both a 2 year extension that is what it will cost us.

 

As for paying it all at once, I haven't suggested we were, it was you who brought up the Carroll money in relation to us having a limit on spending.

 

If the club wants to move forward then it will need better than these two and we can't afford squad players to be sat on the bench earning £50k per week.

 

We've afforded Smith and Xisco for long enough. Who signed those clowns?

[Hughesy]

If Barton was to sign a 4 year deal at 50k a week - 10.4 million.

 

So quite a lot.

 

Ignoring the fact that he wants three years and you've no idea how much he wants...

 

He gets that all at once does he? And the Sky money stops coming in too does it in the next four years? And the gates dwindle to 0 in the next four years do they?

 

This idea that we have to let key players go because they might have to get paid is absolutely

 

The idea of paying players over their worth and keeping them on big contracts just to keep them happy but to the detriment of the club long term.  Is even more laughable tbh.

 

Should we assume he wants a tenner and a packet of crisps then?  It is almost certain that the figure requested (assuming the various newpaper reports are even close to being accurate) is north of 40k a week.

[The Prophet]

Again I'm asking because I don't know if it was sepculation or actually stated at the time, but did Barton's contract talks not break down over length rather than wage?