NUFC vs Anti-football?

[Beren]

I think everyone has identified we have a problem against anti-footballing knuckle-dragging teams such as Blackburn/Stoke, and I'm sure the next time we fail to hammer such a simple (but effective) side the team/manager will be slated, but does anyone here have any ideas for how we can approach these games with the personnel/resources we have available? (ie Ben Arfa injured  )

 

These types of teams at SJP will be more problematic to deal with because the pressure of the crowd to attack will lead to rushed attacking rather than patient build-up/passing, which leads to frustration and a vicious cycle begins. Away from home, I think we might fare relatively well against such sides on the counter-attack but at SJP we do look bereft of ideas, guile or real incision at times with so many opposition bodies in their half and no space to play in.

 

Tactically, where do we go from here?

[Skirge]

Hmmmmmm we gave them the chance to make it very hard for us yesterday by gifting them a goal inside 3 mins. Had that not happened am not to sure we would not have beaten them.

[abcdefg]

I'd advise punching negative teams.

[Beren]

Given the current situation my only idea (admittedly full of holes!) is to concentrate on our defence, ignore the crowd's displeasure at our lack of attacking ambition and consequently coax the opposition out of defence thus opening the game up a bit.

[Skirge]

  On 11/11/2010 at 16:41, Beren said:

Given the current situation my only idea (admittedly full of holes!) is to concentrate on our defence, ignore the crowd's displeasure at our lack of attacking ambition and consequently coax the opposition out of defence thus opening the game up a bit.

 

Indeed we need to get them to push out at us but if they are ahead its not going to happen.

[AlanSkÃrare]

I think we're a mixture of the Blackburn/Stoke approach and the way Everton play their football. Very intense in midfield with a lot of energy and patient passing moves that usually sees us get balls into the box for Carroll or Shola. Having Carroll's aerial ability makes us a bit prone to abandon that and go route one, but there's nothing wrong with that as long as we don't forget how to play the way we did at Everton for example; not giving the ball away and keep up the intensity in midfield for 90 mins. Wouldn't say Blackburn won yesterday due to our style of play or theirs. Individual error from Tioté and then poor defending for the second. It's not as if  they outsmarted us och didn't suit us. Anyone would struggle to keep possession flowing against six defenders.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I really wonder whether we have the personnel to change much. Last night I would have been tempted to go with Routledge to provide genuine width, go with one up front and put Nolan back into his behind-Carroll role.

 

The most important things are not to give them goals early and make it easy for them, and to stay patient and work the ball into good positions.

 

I think because Carroll is playing so well he tends to become every player's first thought... launch it up to Andy. He's really much better when we supply him from a better base... also gives support time to get around him. The long ball will only ever be a low percentage approach, especially against strong defences like Blackburn's.

[Hanshithispantz]

Run at them more, use a bit of pace, trickery and guile, also have a few more cracks from outside the box. There big dosey defenses are suited to take crosses all day, make them have to time a key challenge, or defend against a speedy winger constantly charging at the though and they shit it. Routlege is the type of player we need in a game like this, him an jonas can cause a lot of panic, disrupt there rythm and win some free-kicks in dangerous possisions, if only we had some-one to score from them (cough cough ryan taylor)

[Guest Stephen927]

We've got the player who can provide a bit of magic to break down a sturdy defence; Hatem Ben Arfa. De Jong fucked that up though.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I like how Barton has played, but I think we were looking good with two genuine wide players. Looks like we'll get a chance to look at that formation again thanks to Bartongate XV.

[Beren]

  On 11/11/2010 at 16:38, djmattis said:

How do WE play in general really? it's not like we are the Barca of England tbh

 

Don't think I suggested we were, but we are differentiated from Stoke/Blackburn in our desire to come forward/score goals and the fact that we can play some nice stuff on the deck.

 

Agree with AlanSkarare's post too.

[steve_69]

This is exactly why anti-football can be so effective - it's so difficult to defend against. 

How on earth are you going to replicate Delap-type throw-ins in training?

 

I reckon having 4 massive fuckers at the back would go someway to nulifying their attacks but you've still got to try and score past them.

 

 

 

[WarrenBartonCentrePartin]

is this on the same level as Dan Le Sac vs. Scroobius Pip?

[madras]

isn't anti football to do with the style used when teams have the ball as opposed to how they defend ?

[Wullie]

Ian i'm interested to know when you think we've looked good with the two wingers? I think considering the way we finished last season, that system's been desperately disappointing, mainly due to the form of Routledge. Our good results have been all about Barton's delivery from wide areas, being without him is going to hurt us big time unless someone else can replace it.

[steve_69]

I'd like to see us use two proper wingers now we've got two big strikers up top. It looked shite when we had Nolan playing as a second striker. I'm not saying it'd be any different now but it's definitely worth a try

[madras]

  On 11/11/2010 at 17:12, Wullie said:

Ian i'm interested to know when you think we've looked good with the two wingers? I think considering the way we finished last season, that system's been desperately disappointing, mainly due to the form of Routledge. Our good results have been all about Barton's delivery from wide areas, being without him is going to hurt us big time unless someone else can replace it.

to be fair his delivery isn't even all that good, it's more we have a forward who can make the best of them.

 

if last night was anything to go by we have to mix it up a bit more as we were as guilty of anyone i'v e seen this season of just lumpping it to the big bloke. i can't really remember anyone carrying the ball through the middle even when space was there, we were far too desperate to get it wide.

[Benwell Lad]

Yes we've definitely come unstuck against the crowded midfield defensive teams and it is now a problem.

No easy answer but I'd go for 5 in the middle with two out and out wingers who are told to run at them at every opportunity. At very least this would increase the chances of getting set pieces in dangerous positions and opposition defenders picking up bookings thereby inhibiting their game plan.

 

Oh.. and it would also help if we started contesting decisions a bit more passionately like a lot of teams do. We just seem to accept any decision while opposition teams get at the referee about anything they disagree with.

[madras]

it's worrying the amount of people saying we should cheat more. (in other threads aswell).

[JH]

  On 11/11/2010 at 17:12, Wullie said:

Ian i'm interested to know when you think we've looked good with the two wingers? I think considering the way we finished last season, that system's been desperately disappointing, mainly due to the form of Routledge. Our good results have been all about Barton's delivery from wide areas, being without him is going to hurt us big time unless someone else can replace it.

 

Whilst I get where you're coming from, I do see Ian's point especially in relation to yesterday.

 

At 1-1, it was almost as if we were playing this formation:

 

Krul

Simpson Williamson Coloccini Enrique

| Barton Tiote Jonas

| Nolan

v Carroll Ranger

 

Every single attack was going down the left hand side and Blackburn quickly sussed that out. Jonas, Enrique and Nolan were trying to play in a triangle to free up some space for someone to get down the sideline and get some delivery into the box. I can't help but feel we should have had an out and out right sided player (or even forced Barton to stay out wide) to try and even the play up. We became predictable which allowed them to take advantage and left Jonas/Enrique with next to no space on that left hand flank, thus nullifying the threat completely.

[Guest]

  On 11/11/2010 at 17:17, madras said:

  Quote

Ian i'm interested to know when you think we've looked good with the two wingers? I think considering the way we finished last season, that system's been desperately disappointing, mainly due to the form of Routledge. Our good results have been all about Barton's delivery from wide areas, being without him is going to hurt us big time unless someone else can replace it.

to be fair his delivery isn't even all that good, it's more we have a forward who can make the best of them.

 

You still have to give him something to work with though, Barton has been doing that perfectly the last 4 games on the right.

[abcdefg]

  On 11/11/2010 at 17:20, madras said:

it's worrying the amount of people saying we should cheat more. (in other threads aswell).

 

Can't speak for everyone, but I jest saying such things.

[madras]

  On 11/11/2010 at 17:20, Optimistic Nut said:

  Quote

  Quote

Ian i'm interested to know when you think we've looked good with the two wingers? I think considering the way we finished last season, that system's been desperately disappointing, mainly due to the form of Routledge. Our good results have been all about Barton's delivery from wide areas, being without him is going to hurt us big time unless someone else can replace it.

to be fair his delivery isn't even all that good, it's more we have a forward who can make the best of them.

 

You still have to give him something to work with though, Barton has been doing that perfectly the last 4 games on the right.

what i'm getting at is that if routledge has been watching he should see that at times you don't have to put in the perfect cross, in with pace, curling away from the keeper type and just lump it in as we have a forward who can often make a poor cross into a goal.

[Wullie]

  On 11/11/2010 at 17:20, Optimistic Nut said:

  Quote

  Quote

Ian i'm interested to know when you think we've looked good with the two wingers? I think considering the way we finished last season, that system's been desperately disappointing, mainly due to the form of Routledge. Our good results have been all about Barton's delivery from wide areas, being without him is going to hurt us big time unless someone else can replace it.

to be fair his delivery isn't even all that good, it's more we have a forward who can make the best of them.

 

You still have to give him something to work with though, Barton has been doing that perfectly the last 4 games on the right.

 

Indeed. Barton has 4 assists this season, that's before you count the two good corners against the mackems which fell to Nolan, the cross that Carroll nodded down to Nolan at West Ham and the corner against Villa that also fell for Carroll's first.

 

I'm not a huge fan of Barton, especially not in the middle but there's no denying that his delivery this season has been superb.

 

Following on from madras's point about playing through the middle, I think the sixth goal against Villa is the only one we've scored from a passing move or a through ball, it's nearly all been headers or knock-downs. I wouldn't say we're a long ball team but our main (only?) offensive strength is in getting the ball into the box from wide and taking advantage of Carroll's incredible aerial ability but if this is nullified we definitely look one dimensional. We're not particularly good at putting together short passing moves and we're a very slow side too in general.

[Guest Heneage]

I'd argue we have the players to play an open game with a good degree of success, however we lack the quality in midfield to break down more compact sides. Unfortunately we can't look to add to our side till January which could mean a frustrating few months at home. It's not good enough to just say if we had Ben Arfa we'd have won, because we need a squa dof players that offer us options for games like this, not just one player.

 

The one thing that's annoyed me is those across the road claiming we shouldn't complain as we did the same to Arsenal, as I don't think the two performances are comparable.