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Alan Pardew

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Christmas Tree

Christmas Tree

Posted
Posted

Be nice in everyone could just draw a line over the mistakes of the past and concentrate on the excellent things now happening on and off the pitch.

 

We are in a much better position all round compared to 2007 and while we wont be kicking in the back doors of the top four any time soon, we are looking like having a team very capable of breaking Europe, (Particularly if those upstairs get their act together on a striker) and a team and manager that wants to play football the right way.

 

Surely it should be possible to not like some of the stuff that's gone on over the last few years but not let that taint everything going forward.

 

 

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quayside

quayside

Posted
Posted

Disagree, unsurprisingly.

 

Ossie got the boot because we were second bottom and on our way to sliding down a division. KK may well have been spoken to before Ossie was officially given his marching orders though, you are correct. I do differentiate the two situations because of the following:

 

Hughton was given the boot when we were 9th having taken a relegated side up from the Championship. The true reasons for his dismissal we can speculate about all day - from my perspective "getting someone in with more experience" isn't a real or valid reason. People without experience in all kinds of professions can flourish spectacularly. Furthermore, there was no reason to believe, from the evidence available, that Hughton wouldn't continue to do a fantastic job, or continue to grow and do better - or that Pardew was even capable of being anything other than a midtable/lower half manager.

 

And Hughton was doing doing a fantastic job - fans who had been disenchanted with the club had fallen in love with the players and the manager all over again and all was well on that side of things. To displace someone in that situation essentially by virtue of being chummy with the owner is akin to nepotism in my book.  Also, Pardew wasn't scouted/spoken to because they thought he could do a better job, he was scouted because he would kowtow to Ashley, sell players assets, and take gambles on their replacements. That we've done well since is by the by (and largely down to Hughton's signing of Leon Best!).

 

Also, to voluntarily get in bed with characters such as Ashley/Llambias (irrespective of the golden opportunity Newcastle United presented to his career) in my book makes him a morally dubious and complicit arsehole. If Gaddafi offered you a position on his cabinet, would you take it? You'd be running (whatever it is you happen to do) at a national level on an international stage afterall.

 

Now that he's here, fine. The team are doing well - very well actually. Since the real problems are above him, campaigning against him to leave the club is silly/pointless. I'm still not obliged to either like or trust the guy though. He's as much a part of the regime as the new Sports Direct lettering IMO.

 

The timing of your post is good though, Otter. Would've like to see the reception it got if you posted it after the transfer window closed without a new striker, or after we sold Enrique, instead of after our unbeaten start.

 

I liked and respected Hughton, he did a really good job in what, to start with, must have been an incredibly difficult situation. His achievement was to  got us promoted with the best and most expensive squad the Championship has ever seen.  A manager and a side that comes first in its division is easy to fall in love with.

 

Ashley is a business man and I defy you to produce any evidence that he's not running this club as a business. Your take on the Hughton sacking is that Pardew would "kowtow" to Ashley and Llambias and let them sell who they like. Utter crap imo - this means that you think Hughton was some sort of iron character who would stand up to Ashley and stop him selling Carroll and Enrique? Or maybe you think that Hughton's sheer charisma would have persuaded them to stay? Hughton is a far less outspoken character than Pardew, when did Hughton ever say anything of any consequence in an interview? I thought everyone knew that managers don't have the final say on decisions like the Carroll and Enrique sales anyway.

 

Ashley appointed Pardew because he thought he would do a better job of protecting his asset, that's why businessmen make decisions like that.

 

Love the point about our success to date being mainly down to Hughton's signing of Leon Best  :lol:  Apart from the complete dismissal of other players who have played a part (and let's not forget Kinnear's signing Ryan Taylor btw) this is the same Leon Best who couldn't hit a barn from the inside until Pardew took over.

 

Hey it's early days, the fixture list so far has helped us get a start and I'm not carried away with what's happened so far But Pardew is one of the things I like about our set up right now. I certainly would rather he was here than plenty of the other managers in the Premiership (as well as the high profile, big ego managers in the Championship).

 

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Beren

Beren

Posted
Posted

Disagree, unsurprisingly.

 

Ossie got the boot because we were second bottom and on our way to sliding down a division. KK may well have been spoken to before Ossie was officially given his marching orders though, you are correct. I do differentiate the two situations because of the following:

 

Hughton was given the boot when we were 9th having taken a relegated side up from the Championship. The true reasons for his dismissal we can speculate about all day - from my perspective "getting someone in with more experience" isn't a real or valid reason. People without experience in all kinds of professions can flourish spectacularly. Furthermore, there was no reason to believe, from the evidence available, that Hughton wouldn't continue to do a fantastic job, or continue to grow and do better - or that Pardew was even capable of being anything other than a midtable/lower half manager.

 

And Hughton was doing doing a fantastic job - fans who had been disenchanted with the club had fallen in love with the players and the manager all over again and all was well on that side of things. To displace someone in that situation essentially by virtue of being chummy with the owner is akin to nepotism in my book.  Also, Pardew wasn't scouted/spoken to because they thought he could do a better job, he was scouted because he would kowtow to Ashley, sell players assets, and take gambles on their replacements. That we've done well since is by the by (and largely down to Hughton's signing of Leon Best!).

 

Also, to voluntarily get in bed with characters such as Ashley/Llambias (irrespective of the golden opportunity Newcastle United presented to his career) in my book makes him a morally dubious and complicit arsehole. If Gaddafi offered you a position on his cabinet, would you take it? You'd be running (whatever it is you happen to do) at a national level on an international stage afterall.

 

Now that he's here, fine. The team are doing well - very well actually. Since the real problems are above him, campaigning against him to leave the club is silly/pointless. I'm still not obliged to either like or trust the guy though. He's as much a part of the regime as the new Sports Direct lettering IMO.

 

The timing of your post is good though, Otter. Would've like to see the reception it got if you posted it after the transfer window closed without a new striker, or after we sold Enrique, instead of after our unbeaten start.

 

I liked and respected Hughton, he did a really good job in what, to start with, must have been an incredibly difficult situation. His achievement was to  got us promoted with the best and most expensive squad the Championship has ever seen.  A manager and a side that comes first in its division is easy to fall in love with.

 

Had much more to do with his demeanour, dignity and respect he engendered amongst the place IMO. He had a good squad, but plenty of Premiership squads have sunk without a trace. A pejorative take on things^

 

Ashley is a business man and I defy you to produce any evidence that he's not running this club as a business.

 

No shit :lol: I don't know why you say that with such pride, tbh. I made a lengthy post somewhere on why that's not something to be proud of, so I won't go into it again.

 

Your take on the Hughton sacking is that Pardew would "kowtow" to Ashley and Llambias and let them sell who they like. Utter crap imo - this means that you think Hughton was some sort of iron character who would stand up to Ashley and stop him selling Carroll and Enrique? Or maybe you think that Hughton's sheer charisma would have persuaded them to stay? Hughton is a far less outspoken character than Pardew, when did Hughton ever say anything of any consequence in an interview? I thought everyone knew that managers don't have the final say on decisions like the Carroll and Enrique sales anyway.

 

You seem to be conflating the issues of a manager having decision-making powers (which I didn't mention in my post) and a manager accepting a regime he did not agree with. Hughton would obviously not have been able to stop the sales of any of our players, and I suspect the real reason he isn't here - and the reason Pardew is - is because Hughton wasn't willing to participate fully with Ashley's cost-cutting pissing-in-the-faces-of-fans regime.

 

Ashley appointed Pardew because he thought he would do a better job of protecting his asset, that's why businessmen make decisions like that.

 

Again no arguments from me, but again - not sure why you're proud of this. As long as we're both in agreement it wasn't for footballing reasons in the conventional sense of the phrase.

 

Love the point about our success to date being mainly down to Hughton's signing of Leon Best  :lol:  Apart from the complete dismissal of other players who have played a part (and let's not forget Kinnear's signing Ryan Taylor btw) this the same Leon Best who couldn't hit a barn from the inside until Pardew took over.

 

Fair point, you've got me there (although I would stress my point was somewhat tongue in cheek). A lot of players contributed very well to the second half of our season, but with the exception of Jonas and Colo, none was more invaluable than Best after Carroll's sale (even though Carroll was injured for the rest of it)

 

Hey it's early days, the fixture list so far has helped us get a start and I'm not carried away with what's happened so far But Pardew is one of the things I like about our set up right now. I certainly would rather he was here than plenty of the other managers in the Premiership (as well as the high profile, big ego managers in the Championship).

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Interpolic

Interpolic

Posted
Posted

Good point there. And I think most of us can agree that sacking Hughton was the correct decision.

 

100% agree.

 

I don't, whatsoever.

 

And why is that? :rant:

 

I don't get what people see in him at all.  He's done a better job than I expected but how people can go on like he's a categorical upgrade on Hughton is beyond me.

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Ronaldo

Ronaldo

Posted
Posted

Good point there. And I think most of us can agree that sacking Hughton was the correct decision.

 

100% agree.

 

I don't, whatsoever.

 

And why is that? :rant:

 

I don't get what people see in him at all.  He's done a better job than I expected but how people can go on like he's a categorical upgrade on Hughton is beyond me.

 

I don't know. Results, perhaps?

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Interpolic

Interpolic

Posted
Posted

I said up there!!  Fuck it, back in a bit.

 

http://www.toontastic.net/stokoe/1315381734.jpg

 

Courtesy of Happy Face. Doesn't include the Forest win.

 

Not a dig at Pardew as such but doesn't Forest go down as a draw?  We've drawn A LOT of games under Pardew and sometimes this has papered over the cracks a bit imo.

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quayside

quayside

Posted
Posted

Disagree, unsurprisingly.

 

Ossie got the boot because we were second bottom and on our way to sliding down a division. KK may well have been spoken to before Ossie was officially given his marching orders though, you are correct. I do differentiate the two situations because of the following:

 

Hughton was given the boot when we were 9th having taken a relegated side up from the Championship. The true reasons for his dismissal we can speculate about all day - from my perspective "getting someone in with more experience" isn't a real or valid reason. People without experience in all kinds of professions can flourish spectacularly. Furthermore, there was no reason to believe, from the evidence available, that Hughton wouldn't continue to do a fantastic job, or continue to grow and do better - or that Pardew was even capable of being anything other than a midtable/lower half manager.

 

And Hughton was doing doing a fantastic job - fans who had been disenchanted with the club had fallen in love with the players and the manager all over again and all was well on that side of things. To displace someone in that situation essentially by virtue of being chummy with the owner is akin to nepotism in my book.  Also, Pardew wasn't scouted/spoken to because they thought he could do a better job, he was scouted because he would kowtow to Ashley, sell players assets, and take gambles on their replacements. That we've done well since is by the by (and largely down to Hughton's signing of Leon Best!).

 

Also, to voluntarily get in bed with characters such as Ashley/Llambias (irrespective of the golden opportunity Newcastle United presented to his career) in my book makes him a morally dubious and complicit arsehole. If Gaddafi offered you a position on his cabinet, would you take it? You'd be running (whatever it is you happen to do) at a national level on an international stage afterall.

 

Now that he's here, fine. The team are doing well - very well actually. Since the real problems are above him, campaigning against him to leave the club is silly/pointless. I'm still not obliged to either like or trust the guy though. He's as much a part of the regime as the new Sports Direct lettering IMO.

 

The timing of your post is good though, Otter. Would've like to see the reception it got if you posted it after the transfer window closed without a new striker, or after we sold Enrique, instead of after our unbeaten start.

 

I liked and respected Hughton, he did a really good job in what, to start with, must have been an incredibly difficult situation. His achievement was to  got us promoted with the best and most expensive squad the Championship has ever seen.  A manager and a side that comes first in its division is easy to fall in love with.

 

Had much more to do with his demeanour, dignity and respect he engendered amongst the place IMO. He had a good squad, but plenty of Premiership squads have sunk without a trace. A pejorative take on things^

 

Ashley is a business man and I defy you to produce any evidence that he's not running this club as a business.

 

No s*** :lol: I don't know why you say that with such pride, tbh. I made a lengthy post somewhere on why that's not something to be proud of, so I won't go into it again.

 

Your take on the Hughton sacking is that Pardew would "kowtow" to Ashley and Llambias and let them sell who they like. Utter crap imo - this means that you think Hughton was some sort of iron character who would stand up to Ashley and stop him selling Carroll and Enrique? Or maybe you think that Hughton's sheer charisma would have persuaded them to stay? Hughton is a far less outspoken character than Pardew, when did Hughton ever say anything of any consequence in an interview? I thought everyone knew that managers don't have the final say on decisions like the Carroll and Enrique sales anyway.

 

You seem to be conflating the issues of a manager having decision-making powers (which I didn't mention in my post) and a manager accepting a regime he did not agree with. Hughton would obviously not have been able to stop the sales of any of our players, and I suspect the real reason he isn't here - and the reason Pardew is - is because Hughton wasn't willing to participate fully with Ashley's cost-cutting pissing-in-the-faces-of-fans regime.

 

Ashley appointed Pardew because he thought he would do a better job of protecting his asset, that's why businessmen make decisions like that.

 

Again no arguments from me, but again - not sure why you're proud of this. As long as we're both in agreement it wasn't for footballing reasons in the conventional sense of the phrase.

 

Love the point about our success to date being mainly down to Hughton's signing of Leon Best  :lol:  Apart from the complete dismissal of other players who have played a part (and let's not forget Kinnear's signing Ryan Taylor btw) this the same Leon Best who couldn't hit a barn from the inside until Pardew took over.

 

Fair point, you've got me there (although I would stress my point was somewhat tongue in cheek). A lot of players contributed very well to the second half of our season, but with the exception of Jonas and Colo, none was more invaluable than Best after Carroll's sale (even though Carroll was injured for the rest of it)

 

Hey it's early days, the fixture list so far has helped us get a start and I'm not carried away with what's happened so far But Pardew is one of the things I like about our set up right now. I certainly would rather he was here than plenty of the other managers in the Premiership (as well as the high profile, big ego managers in the Championship).

 

I'll not say much about the stuff you agree with other than to say I'm certainly not proud of any of my observations and don't know why you think I would be.

 

Picking up on your comments:

 

"Had much more to do with his demeanour, dignity and respect he engendered amongst the place IMO. He had a good squad, but plenty of Premiership squads have sunk without a trace. A pejorative take on things"

 

He had more than a good squad, it was light years better than anything else in that division. And whilst I agree with you about his demeanour, dignity and respect my take on it is that the players themselves were largely running the show and Hughton (wisely) gave them the empowerment to do so.

 

"You seem to be conflating the issues of a manager having decision-making powers (which I didn't mention in my post) and a manager accepting a regime he did not agree with. Hughton would obviously not have been able to stop the sales of any of our players, and I suspect the real reason he isn't here - and the reason Pardew is - is because Hughton wasn't willing to participate fully with Ashley's cost-cutting pissing-in-the-faces-of-fans regime."

 

No conflation here. I happen to think Hughton wouldn't have stood in the way of anything Ashley tried to do, he was even more of a puppet than some suggest Pardew is. And you did refer to the transfer window and the selling of Enrique - and you did link them with Pardew btw.

 

 

"As long as we're both in agreement it wasn't for footballing reasons in the conventional sense of the phrase."

 

Any manager we have isn't going to control the money side of it. I think Ashley thought Pardew would get more out of the squad than Hughton and would therefore get a better return for his asset.

 

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