Alan Pardew

[Hughesy]

Liverpool haven't massively underachieved at all. They've underachieved by maybe 5 points at an absolute most, plenty on here said they had no chance of top four before things kicked off.

 

I think most of their fans would disagree. Fair enough they won the cup, but considering their summer spending, their league campaign has been hugely disappointing. At home in particular.

 

Yes but you said they've 'underperformed considering the squad they've got' as if it is packed full of fantastic players. I'd say they've got the 6th best squad in the league.

 

I think it is far to say they have underperformed for the squad they have and the money they have spent.

 

It is also worth considering that although they might only have the 6th best squad in the league, I think the vast majority of people would have said at the start of the season that there was quite a large gap between the quality of Liverpool's squad and the 7th best squad in the league.

[ponsaelius]

They wasted money on shite, everybody but them could see the outcome before a ball was kicked. That's not underachievement, that's just being terrible in the transfer market.

 

Their points tally and position is about right considering their squad, starting XI and manager - so no I don't think they've underperformed. They're 7th rather than 6th because we have had such a good season so far.

 

[JH]

Reasons for our poor football

 

Taylor got injured

Afcon

Injuries

Williomson

Simpson

 

f*** off, the reasons why we play p*ss poor football lie in the dugout and the feet of our league one manager.

 

But hey we are sixth. 6th. Top 6.

 

Far too many excuses and heads in the sands. Those that date to criticise the manager's tactics are unreasonable, too demanding, obviously have agendas, couldnt care less we are 6th, and not just any old 6th but TOP SIXTH.

 

We generally get outpassed and tacticslly outplayed in the majority of our games be it home or away or the league or cup.

 

Starting to agree with alot of what you say HTT, but there's no need for shit like this. Just devalues your post completely.

[Jayson]

Well most people want possession based attacking football. Their sides have achieved that, yet have not achieved other things we have under Pardew. Who's fans should be happier?

 

Not this s*** again man.

 

Obviously if anyone looks at the league table they say "well toon fans must be delighted".

 

However our fans have actually watched all our matches this season.

 

 

Huh? Reread. Im asking our fans who should be happier, not what they think.

 

The respective ability of the sides above us to keep possession & dominate games has been highlighted in this thread & used as evidence we underperform under Pardew. Yet many would agree those 2 sides have underperformed in terms of picking up points for the quality of their squad, in comparison to how we have done.

So should people be more dissapointed with our attacking play than satisfied with our strengths in other areas? Many seem to be.

[Theregulars]

Well most people want possession based attacking football. Their sides have achieved that, yet have not achieved other things we have under Pardew. Who's fans should be happier?

 

Not this s*** again man.

 

Obviously if anyone looks at the league table they say "well toon fans must be delighted".

 

However our fans have actually watched all our matches this season.

 

 

Huh? Reread. Im asking our fans who should be happier, not what they think.

 

The respective ability of the sides above us to keep possession & dominate games has been highlighted in this thread & used as evidence we underperform under Pardew. Yet many would agree those 2 sides have underperformed in terms of picking up points for the quality of their squad, in comparison to how we have done.

So should people be more dissapointed with our attacking play than satisfied with our strengths in other areas? Many seem to be.

 

So true.

So many people on here when our fans got/get derided in the media for "demanding an attacking brand of football"/"the Geordies would rather lose 4-3 than win 1-0" claimed that to be the media ganging up on us/not knowing their arse from their elbow/talking shit etc. Now we have a manager under whom for the majority of the season we have ground out scrappy, 1-0 wins with good team defending, as well as good football and some great goals in part, and so many people on here are complaining about it.

Yeah, take your point, the football isn't particularly inspiring and with out first XI there's room for improvement and it's frustrating to see that denied us, but at the end of the day you're living up to the stereotypes that David Craig, Louise Taylor et al set for us having bashed them as inaccurate in the first place.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Pardew can have us playing a formation of 10-0-0 for all I care as long as keep winning, because as a fan of Newcastle United I love it when we win. I'm a fan of Newcastle United first, and tasty football involving Newcastle United second.

 

[Guest firetotheworks]

For those using our league position as the sole barometer to judge us on, don't you realise that we got to that position through a fantastic set of results that were achieved by playing the type of football that some of us are crying out for us to revert to? BEFORE we changed to hoofing it long? Since we changed to that approach we've had mid to lower table form, imo.

 

[eliassenfredrik]

It's the way we're picking up points, which haven't even been often lately. It wont last long with the same close the shop tactics the very second we take the lead. Simple as. Norwich could easily have taken 3 points yesterday, let alone 1. But because we won, the points tend to blind people just because it's points. There's little to none progression in our game plan when taking the lead, drawing or even losing which suggests this way of handling opposition is successive in the long run.

[Theregulars]

For those using our league position as the sole barometer to judge us on, don't you realise that we got to that position through a fantastic set of results that were achieved by playing the type of football that some of us are crying to revert to? BEFORE we changed to hoofing it long. Since we changed to that we've been mid to lower table form.

 

Completely disagree. Can think of many victories where we won scrappy games by one goal and then defended for our lives with the majority - Sunderland away, Everton at home and Fulham at home being a few that come to mind at first, as well as the awe-inspiring early season football that we witnessed in (what seemed so at the time) getting a good point away from home at QPR. There was a lot of 'percentage football', last-ditch defending and luck in those games too. That we've showed poorer form since the early season run, in my opinion, is down to:

- injuries/absences (particularly to Steven Taylor and Cheik Tiote)

- the squad at the beginning of the season overperforming

- some truly shit refereeing

AS MUCH AS it had to do with Pardew's increasingly negative tactics - I don't disagree with you on this point, we have been more prone to long-ball and stodgy football since 0-3 at home to Chelsea.

[Spudil]

Well most people want possession based attacking football. Their sides have achieved that, yet have not achieved other things we have under Pardew. Who's fans should be happier?

 

Not this s*** again man.

 

Obviously if anyone looks at the league table they say "well toon fans must be delighted".

 

However our fans have actually watched all our matches this season.

 

 

Huh? Reread. Im asking our fans who should be happier, not what they think.

 

The respective ability of the sides above us to keep possession & dominate games has been highlighted in this thread & used as evidence we underperform under Pardew. Yet many would agree those 2 sides have underperformed in terms of picking up points for the quality of their squad, in comparison to how we have done.

So should people be more dissapointed with our attacking play than satisfied with our strengths in other areas? Many seem to be.

 

Happier in terms of what exactly?

 

All things considered I'd say Liverpool fans should be happiest. They won a cup and are in with a shout for another one. Additionally they have one of the tightest defenses in the league, dominated a lot of games this season, created alot of chances and could reasonably argue that with a good poacher (like Cisse i suppose) they'd have collected a lot more points.

[Theregulars]

It's the way we're picking up points, which haven't even been often lately. It wont last long with the same close the shop tactics the very second we take the lead. Simple as. Norwich could easily have taken 3 points yesterday, let alone 1. But because we won, the points tend to blind people just because it's points. There's little to none progression in our game plan when taking the lead, drawing or even losing which suggests this way of handling opposition is successive in the long run.

 

But by your 'what-if?' logic, we could just as easily have picked up more points. Taking the last few performances as a sample:

Mackem game - had Mike Dean been a fit and proper person to referee a game of football, we would have had more than one penalty, Demba hit the Ba (sorry), Mignolet made a good save from Coloccini...

Norwich game - Ruddy pulled off a blinding save from Ba, good save from Cisse, and Cisse should have scored another at the start.

Wolves game - In the frst 15 minutes, with better finishing, we could have been 4 up.

 

Saying that a better team than X would have scored more/it would have been worse on the day is useless as an analytical tool because it can be very easily flipped on its head theoretically to back up the opposite argument.

[Hughesy]

For those using our league position as the sole barometer to judge us on, don't you realise that we got to that position through a fantastic set of results that were achieved by playing the type of football that some of us are crying out for us to revert to? BEFORE we changed to hoofing it long? Since we changed to that approach we've had mid to lower table form, imo.

 

 

Didn't somebody point out that our form hasn't been mid to lower table form since the turn of the year?

[Optimistic Nut]

Well most people want possession based attacking football. Their sides have achieved that, yet have not achieved other things we have under Pardew. Who's fans should be happier?

 

Not this s*** again man.

 

Obviously if anyone looks at the league table they say "well toon fans must be delighted".

 

However our fans have actually watched all our matches this season.

 

 

Huh? Reread. Im asking our fans who should be happier, not what they think.

 

The respective ability of the sides above us to keep possession & dominate games has been highlighted in this thread & used as evidence we underperform under Pardew. Yet many would agree those 2 sides have underperformed in terms of picking up points for the quality of their squad, in comparison to how we have done.

So should people be more dissapointed with our attacking play than satisfied with our strengths in other areas? Many seem to be.

 

Happier in terms of what exactly?

 

All things considered I'd say Liverpool fans should be happiest. They won a cup and are in with a shout for another one. Additionally they have one of the tightest defenses in the league, dominated a lot of games this season, created alot of chances and could reasonably argue that with a good poacher (like Cisse i suppose) they'd have collected a lot more points.

 

Is that not sort of Jayson's point though? They spent £70m on dross. If they'd spent that correctly (nothing stopped them signing Ba & Cisse rather than Carroll for example) they really should be at least on par with Spurs & Arsenal.

[Mick]

 

 

So true.

So many people on here when our fans got/get derided in the media for "demanding an attacking brand of football"/"the Geordies would rather lose 4-3 than win 1-0" claimed that to be the media ganging up on us/not knowing their arse from their elbow/talking s*** etc. Now we have a manager under whom for the majority of the season we have ground out scrappy, 1-0 wins with good team defending, as well as good football and some great goals in part, and so many people on here are complaining about it.

Yeah, take your point, the football isn't particularly inspiring and with out first XI there's room for improvement and it's frustrating to see that denied us, but at the end of the day you're living up to the stereotypes that David Craig, Louise Taylor et al set for us having bashed them as inaccurate in the first place.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Pardew can have us playing a formation of 10-0-0 for all I care as long as keep winning, because as a fan of Newcastle United I love it when we win. I'm a fan of Newcastle United first, and tasty football involving Newcastle United second.

 

 

Nobody has ever said they'd rather lose 3-4 than win 1-0 so nobody is living up to any stereotype.

[Theregulars]

For those using our league position as the sole barometer to judge us on, don't you realise that we got to that position through a fantastic set of results that were achieved by playing the type of football that some of us are crying out for us to revert to? BEFORE we changed to hoofing it long? Since we changed to that approach we've had mid to lower table form, imo.

 

 

Didn't somebody point out that our form hasn't been mid to lower table form since the turn of the year?

 

A further point to this is also that the run at the start counts only towards your overall points total throughout the season. I'm not bothered about our form as much as our points total at the end, and a good run, whenever it happens, contributes to that and that alone.

[Optimistic Nut]

For those using our league position as the sole barometer to judge us on, don't you realise that we got to that position through a fantastic set of results that were achieved by playing the type of football that some of us are crying out for us to revert to? BEFORE we changed to hoofing it long? Since we changed to that approach we've had mid to lower table form, imo.

 

 

Didn't somebody point out that our form hasn't been mid to lower table form since the turn of the year?

 

P 10, W 5, D 2, L 3. = 17 pts (1.7 a game which averages to 64-65 points over a season)

[Guest Deadmau5]

As long as we are sixth, people sceptical of Pardew will always be shot down a bit.

Those who only care about results though and ridicule current critics, are going to wonder what is happening when results start going the other way though.

People like HTT and Dr. Venkman already know it seems, so when it happens I guess there is a sense of satisfaction in that, despite the despair of seeing your beloved team blow up. Alas, there is also the frustration of witnessing the inevitable and being able to do nothing about it.

 

[TRon]

Well most people want possession based attacking football. Their sides have achieved that, yet have not achieved other things we have under Pardew. Who's fans should be happier?

 

Not this s*** again man.

 

Obviously if anyone looks at the league table they say "well toon fans must be delighted".

 

However our fans have actually watched all our matches this season.

 

 

Huh? Reread. Im asking our fans who should be happier, not what they think.

 

The respective ability of the sides above us to keep possession & dominate games has been highlighted in this thread & used as evidence we underperform under Pardew. Yet many would agree those 2 sides have underperformed in terms of picking up points for the quality of their squad, in comparison to how we have done.

So should people be more dissapointed with our attacking play than satisfied with our strengths in other areas? Many seem to be.

 

So true.

So many people on here when our fans got/get derided in the media for "demanding an attacking brand of football"/"the Geordies would rather lose 4-3 than win 1-0" claimed that to be the media ganging up on us/not knowing their arse from their elbow/talking shit etc. Now we have a manager under whom for the majority of the season we have ground out scrappy, 1-0 wins with good team defending, as well as good football and some great goals in part, and so many people on here are complaining about it.

Yeah, take your point, the football isn't particularly inspiring and with out first XI there's room for improvement and it's frustrating to see that denied us, but at the end of the day you're living up to the stereotypes that David Craig, Louise Taylor et al set for us having bashed them as inaccurate in the first place.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Pardew can have us playing a formation of 10-0-0 for all I care as long as keep winning, because as a fan of Newcastle United I love it when we win. I'm a fan of Newcastle United first, and tasty football involving Newcastle United second.

 

 

Once again I'd just like to be clear that I don't demand daft kamikaze attacking football, I don't even mind a defensive line up. What I'd like to see is some control of the game through possession. At the moment we give the ball away far too easily and we often come under pressure as a result - and unlike some are saying on here our defence isn't that great. Against poor teams we get away with it, against the better ones we can ship goals in 3's and 4's.

[Guest Deadmau5]

For those using our league position as the sole barometer to judge us on, don't you realise that we got to that position through a fantastic set of results that were achieved by playing the type of football that some of us are crying out for us to revert to? BEFORE we changed to hoofing it long? Since we changed to that approach we've had mid to lower table form, imo.

 

 

Didn't somebody point out that our form hasn't been mid to lower table form since the turn of the year?

 

P 10, W 5, D 2, L 3. = 17 pts (1.7 a game which averages to 64-65 points over a season)

 

And the 8 matches before that? a massive 5 points. Very selective statistics there.

[Hughesy]

They wasted money on s****, everybody but them could see the outcome before a ball was kicked. That's not underachievement, that's just being terrible in the transfer market.

 

Their points tally and position is about right considering their squad, starting XI and manager - so no I don't think they've underperformed. They're 7th rather than 6th because we have had such a good season so far.

 

 

So you don't think that, on a man for man basis, their squad is stronger than ours?

 

Did you think that at the start of the season?

[Spudil]

Well most people want possession based attacking football. Their sides have achieved that, yet have not achieved other things we have under Pardew. Who's fans should be happier?

 

Not this s*** again man.

 

Obviously if anyone looks at the league table they say "well toon fans must be delighted".

 

However our fans have actually watched all our matches this season.

 

 

Huh? Reread. Im asking our fans who should be happier, not what they think.

 

The respective ability of the sides above us to keep possession & dominate games has been highlighted in this thread & used as evidence we underperform under Pardew. Yet many would agree those 2 sides have underperformed in terms of picking up points for the quality of their squad, in comparison to how we have done.

So should people be more dissapointed with our attacking play than satisfied with our strengths in other areas? Many seem to be.

 

Happier in terms of what exactly?

 

All things considered I'd say Liverpool fans should be happiest. They won a cup and are in with a shout for another one. Additionally they have one of the tightest defenses in the league, dominated a lot of games this season, created alot of chances and could reasonably argue that with a good poacher (like Cisse i suppose) they'd have collected a lot more points.

 

Is that not sort of Jayson's point though? They spent £70m on dross. If they'd spent that correctly (nothing stopped them signing Ba & Cisse rather than Carroll for example) they really should be at least on par with Spurs & Arsenal.

 

He asked who should be happier, I'm unaware of his point until he reveals it to me.

 

Also, I'm aware of what you pointed out and it was considered. I did say  all things considered after all.

[Theregulars]

As long as we are sixth, people sceptical of Pardew will always be shot down a bit.

Those who only care about results though and ridicule current critics, are going to wonder what is happening when results start going the other way though.

People like HTT and Dr. Venkman already know it seems, so when it happens I guess there is a sense of satisfaction in that, despite the despair of seeing your beloved team blow up. Alas, there is also the frustration of witnessing the inevitable and being able to do nothing about it.

 

 

It's not inevitable that his tactics won't succeed in the long-term.

The majority of us on the forum who back Pardew usually attach to praise the caveat of the fact that we recognise the football is turgid at the minute and we will be more critical if the results start going south.

Another point to consider here: we're only complaining and worrying based on the fact that we have outperformed expectations this year. At the start of the year I would have been happy with 7th-10th, for instance. But now people are whining because the football's poor and we may lose a grip on 6th (a possibility, I admit), but those expectations were only raised in the first place by our form and winning throughout the year, which in a large part is to be credited to the manager.

[Jayson]

Well most people want possession based attacking football. Their sides have achieved that, yet have not achieved other things we have under Pardew. Who's fans should be happier?

 

Not this s*** again man.

 

Obviously if anyone looks at the league table they say "well toon fans must be delighted".

 

However our fans have actually watched all our matches this season.

 

 

Huh? Reread. Im asking our fans who should be happier, not what they think.

 

The respective ability of the sides above us to keep possession & dominate games has been highlighted in this thread & used as evidence we underperform under Pardew. Yet many would agree those 2 sides have underperformed in terms of picking up points for the quality of their squad, in comparison to how we have done.

So should people be more dissapointed with our attacking play than satisfied with our strengths in other areas? Many seem to be.

 

Happier in terms of what exactly?

 

All things considered I'd say Liverpool fans should be happiest. They won a cup and are in with a shout for another one. Additionally they have one of the tightest defenses in the league, dominated a lot of games this season, created alot of chances and could reasonably argue that with a good poacher (like Cisse i suppose) they'd have collected a lot more points.

 

Is that not sort of Jayson's point though? They spent £70m on dross. If they'd spent that correctly (nothing stopped them signing Ba & Cisse rather than Carroll for example) they really should be at least on par with Spurs & Arsenal.

 

Aye you cant really make a manager free from blame for the form of his strikers when he specifically signs them & then decides how they are coached.

[Parky]

I really wish you'd bore off, HTT. Our problems lie with the players AND the manager, it's not all totally Pardew's fault.

 

Yeah but we're ONLY sixth - in a season when many expected us to struggle and many more tipped us for relegation. Surely if we had a manager who knew what he was doing we'd be in the top three and probably unbeaten.

Personally I'd rather be in the bottom three and playing the beautiful football inspired by the purist Martinez at Wigan.

 

You can only really compare Martinez if he's got a similar squad to work with. It's not like at Wigan he's got Collocinis, Tiotes, Ba's Cabayes or Cisses at his disposal.

 

Similarly, what could Pardew do with Kompany, Richards, Toure & Aguero at his disposal.

 

Launch the ball 70 yards towards their heads I suspect.

 

He'd put Aguero (too small and too cultured) on the wing and drop Silva for not tracking back. He'd play Bello and Dzeko upfront. Within about four weeks he's have Hart hoofing it.

[Optimistic Nut]

For those using our league position as the sole barometer to judge us on, don't you realise that we got to that position through a fantastic set of results that were achieved by playing the type of football that some of us are crying out for us to revert to? BEFORE we changed to hoofing it long? Since we changed to that approach we've had mid to lower table form, imo.

 

 

Didn't somebody point out that our form hasn't been mid to lower table form since the turn of the year?

 

P 10, W 5, D 2, L 3. = 17 pts (1.7 a game which averages to 64-65 points over a season)

 

And the 8 matches before that? Very selective statistics there.

 

since the turn of the year

 

 

[Hughesy]

For those using our league position as the sole barometer to judge us on, don't you realise that we got to that position through a fantastic set of results that were achieved by playing the type of football that some of us are crying out for us to revert to? BEFORE we changed to hoofing it long? Since we changed to that approach we've had mid to lower table form, imo.

 

 

Didn't somebody point out that our form hasn't been mid to lower table form since the turn of the year?

 

P 10, W 5, D 2, L 3. = 17 pts (1.7 a game which averages to 64-65 points over a season)

 

And the 8 matches before that? a massive 5 points. Very selective statistics there.

 

As opposed to the ever so random '8' matches you have picked that start off with us playing Man City away, Man Utd away and Chelsea at home.   And Norwich with no central defenders.. Brilliant.