Alan Pardew

[madras]

Anyway, it's all academic as Mike Ashley is a f***ing maniac.

is he ?

 

yes he's fucked up before (keegan and kinnear) yet now we are in a position of improving on the pitch and hopefully in a financial position to keep it going.

[Keefaz]

Anyway, it's all academic as Mike Ashley is a f***ing maniac.

is he ?

 

yes he's fucked up before (keegan and kinnear) yet now we are in a position of improving on the pitch and hopefully in a financial position to keep it going.

 

Oh, Maddy. You optimistic fool.

[oldtype]

This "lots of people on here think/thought (insert stupid idea here), but I don't because I'm brilliant" line of argument is getting old, especially considering that the "lots of people on here" generally don't exist.

[Interpolic]

The fact Pardew got a 5 and a half year contract still irks me.  Most were f***ed off about the Hughton business at the time and they seemed to do that out of pure pigheadedness.  I nod my head when I read Wullie's reservations about giving this guy money to spend in the summer.  We'll see I suppose.

 

I think we've got to give him money, I would hate to go through next season with what we currently have.

 

Correct. In my mind, we've Sounessed this right up again. Appointed the wrong man who we have to back regardless.

 

Exactly.  Here we are.

[WarrenBartonCentrePartin]

I was 10 yards from Ashley and Cuntbias at one point this afternoon. Wanted to shout something abusive at the latter, but it was too nice a day.

  love it.

[madras]

Anyway, it's all academic as Mike Ashley is a f***ing maniac.

is he ?

 

yes he's f***ed up before (keegan and kinnear) yet now we are in a position of improving on the pitch and hopefully in a financial position to keep it going.

 

Oh, Maddy. You optimistic fool.

it's the actual position we are in, not a projection though.

[Mick]

is he ?

 

yes he's f***ed up before (keegan and kinnear) yet now we are in a position of improving on the pitch and hopefully in a financial position to keep it going.

 

He made a decision during the season which didn't need to be made and because of it we're probably weaker as a club.  If Pardew doesn't work out we're back to shopping at Netto when it comes to replacing him.  No half decent manager is going to look as us and think he can come here and build something.

[Guest Heneage]

Comparing Souness and Pardew situation is crazy imo. We'd just lost a top quality manager who built the team that took us to the Champions League. Hughton just got us out of the Championship.

[Ronaldo]

Personally, I wasn't too happy when WBA thumped us 3-1. Today i'm content with our season.

 

The team's weaker due to the sale of Carroll, the club isn't.

[madras]

is he ?

 

yes he's f***ed up before (keegan and kinnear) yet now we are in a position of improving on the pitch and hopefully in a financial position to keep it going.

 

He made a decision during the season which didn't need to be made and because of it we're probably weaker as a club.  If Pardew doesn't work out we're back to shopping at Netto when it comes to replacing him.  No half decent manager is going to look as us and think he can come here and build something.

i guess you mean carroll. well my reading is that most managers would have sold at that price and if he fails there will be plenty of managers wanting to have a crack at it, not top level as we arent a top level club but many managres would want to have a crack at a premire league club with this following, even if only as a stepping stone.

[Mick]

Comparing Souness and Pardew situation is crazy imo. We'd just lost a top quality manager who built the team that took us to the Champions League. Hughton just got us out of the Championship.

 

The two situations are similar in as much we were derided for both sackings.

[madras]

Personally, I wasn't too happy when WBA thumped us 3-1. Today i'm content with our season.

 

The team's weaker due to the sale of Carroll, the club isn't.

well put.

[Mick]

i guess you mean carroll. well my reading is that most managers would have sold at that price and if he fails there will be plenty of managers wanting to have a crack at it, not top level as we arent a top level club but many managres would want to have a crack at a premire league club with this following, even if only as a stepping stone.

 

I wasn't on about Carroll, I was on about sacking the manager when we didn't have to.  I honestly don't think a half decent manager would touch us unless it was somebody with a connection to the club.

[Foluwashola]

Personally, I wasn't too happy when WBA thumped us 3-1. Today i'm content with our season.

 

The team's weaker due to the sale of Carroll, the club isn't.

well put.

 

Can't remember many being happy with that West Brom game tbf.

[Keefaz]

Personally, I wasn't too happy when WBA thumped us 3-1. Today i'm content with our season.

 

The team's weaker due to the sale of Carroll, the club isn't.

 

In what way? We had a #9 striker who could have been here for 10 years. Souness spent £50m and we went backwards: Pardew is quite capable of doing the same.

[madras]

i guess you mean carroll. well my reading is that most managers would have sold at that price and if he fails there will be plenty of managers wanting to have a crack at it, not top level as we arent a top level club but many managres would want to have a crack at a premire league club with this following, even if only as a stepping stone.

 

I wasn't on about Carroll, I was on about sacking the manager when we didn't have to.  I honestly don't think a half decent manager would touch us unless it was somebody with a connection to the club.

by half decent do you mean a proven manager ?

 

if so we wouldn't get one anyway, we'd be looking at someone with something to prove.....which is where we are.

[Mick]

by half decent do you mean a proven manager ?

 

if so we wouldn't get one anyway, we'd be looking at someone with something to prove.....which is where we are.

 

We've had proven managers in the past, even if they haven't worked out.  Allardyce was the last proven manager who a few thought would do a good job.

[madras]

by half decent do you mean a proven manager ?

 

if so we wouldn't get one anyway, we'd be looking at someone with something to prove.....which is where we are.

 

We've had proven managers in the past, even if they haven't worked out.  Allardyce was the last proven manager who a few thought would do a good job.

how did you feel about the appointment of allardyce ?

[JH]

Comparing Souness and Pardew situation is crazy imo. We'd just lost a top quality manager who built the team that took us to the Champions League. Hughton just got us out of the Championship.

 

The two situations are similar in as much we were derided for both sackings.

 

And yet different in the idea that Souness took Robson's European chasing side and turned it into an average midtable side.

 

Whilst Pardew has taken Hughton's average midtable side and turned it into an average midtable side.

[Mick]

how did you feel about the appointment of allardyce ?

 

When he was first appointed I thought that he was the best that we could get.  Once the club was taken over I thought he was the wrong man for the job.

[Mick]

 

And yet different in the idea that Souness took Robson's European chasing side and turned it into an average midtable side.

 

Whilst Pardew has taken Hughton's average midtable side and turned it into an average midtable side.

 

As far as I'm concerned, both sackings were wrong at the time.

[JH]

And I wholeheartedly agree.

[Mick]

And I wholeheartedly agree.

 

Good, I can go to bed now. 

[oldtype]

Just hope it doesn't go tits up with Pardew in his second season like it did for him at West Ham.

[80]

Aye, that's my stance as well. For all the praise he got for the Arsenal game he gets the criticism for today. You cannot go blaming him for one and then saying he had nothing to do with the other, it's completely irrational and unfair. His level of influence on the game may well have been different between the two given the two circumstances, but he's the manager so he's obviously played a huge part in both, for good and for bad.

 

On this point, I've got to disagree. There are so many different factors in each game (both specifically, and in a wider 'team x scores four to equalise against team y' sense), not least the psychology, that it just doesn't balance out to say it's 6 and half a dozen. Anything less than some kind of comeback (not necessarily a draw) against Arsenal would have been as shameful a game as they come and we would probably have spun straight towards relegation. You can only think of praising him for such a big turn around if he had to achieve such a big turn around in the first place. To that extent, mounting a counter-attack was value neutral.

 

To try and explain one of my points, we could say a manager has long term and short term influence over a team. Short term, to some extent, is talks, tactics and subs. Long term is the more institutional nature of the squad - their approach, mentality, talents etc. Now, I'd definitely argue it was the long term factors which got us through the Arsenal game, often times things he couldn't impact upon even if he wanted to unfortunately for him seeing as he was still new on the scene - the sense of self-respect people like Joey Barton had, and (recent) traditions Simpson felt he had to live up to etc. That was what let them visualise even trying to even the score up after a sending off. For what it's worth, I wouldn't (and didn't at half-time) particularly hold the result against Pardew, as to a large extent I believe/d he was a victim of circumstances bigger and older than his time at the club.

 

In contrast, today's collapse (which, yes, meant we'd climbed high to allow the fall in the first place). I should say, I wasn't at today's game so it's not so easy for me to comment, but it seems to me to have been more a combination of short and long term factors (bringing on Smith, not selecting Tiote and losing us the £3m we could have bought his replacement with - versus - having only one decent defensive midfielder in the first place, and an uninspired, complacent squad mentality).

 

But one of the things that is bothering me is that now Pardew's been here a while, we've 'coincidentally' developed this habit of throwing away leads and victories, often well into injury time, that we never had under Hughton. A slightly harsh statistic, but the 6 points we've lost to 90+ minute goals alone under him would've had us in a comfortable 8th. One thing that could at least be said for us before he came is that we were solid - we usually kept results, and if anyone scored late it was us. I don't mean to focus on Hughton, but our main failing with him was chasing victories when dead level, lacking the talent to kill it and getting sucker punched. Now, our leads have become unreliable, and I can feel that monkey starting to crawl onto our back all over again.

 

He's far better than Souness.

 

I'll give you that, although I think ultimately they're likely to actually achieve similar things in England. No major insult, mind... most managers given enough time will oversee a relegation. Even Clough.

 

One thing I do wanna say again seeing as I've noticed a few people say Pardew has done well because he's 'coped' with terrible injuries - you've really got to wonder why it is we only started getting them after he arrived. Don't forget the facts, our record had cleared up brilliantly over the prior 18 months, no under-soil heating excuses required. We haven't 'always' had a sicknote squad.