madras Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 Anyway, it's all academic as Mike Ashley is a f***ing maniac. is he ? yes he's fucked up before (keegan and kinnear) yet now we are in a position of improving on the pitch and hopefully in a financial position to keep it going. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keefaz Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 Anyway, it's all academic as Mike Ashley is a f***ing maniac. is he ? yes he's fucked up before (keegan and kinnear) yet now we are in a position of improving on the pitch and hopefully in a financial position to keep it going. Oh, Maddy. You optimistic fool. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtype Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 This "lots of people on here think/thought (insert stupid idea here), but I don't because I'm brilliant" line of argument is getting old, especially considering that the "lots of people on here" generally don't exist. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 The fact Pardew got a 5 and a half year contract still irks me. Most were f***ed off about the Hughton business at the time and they seemed to do that out of pure pigheadedness. I nod my head when I read Wullie's reservations about giving this guy money to spend in the summer. We'll see I suppose. I think we've got to give him money, I would hate to go through next season with what we currently have. Correct. In my mind, we've Sounessed this right up again. Appointed the wrong man who we have to back regardless. Exactly. Here we are. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenBartonCentrePartin Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 I was 10 yards from Ashley and Cuntbias at one point this afternoon. Wanted to shout something abusive at the latter, but it was too nice a day. love it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 Anyway, it's all academic as Mike Ashley is a f***ing maniac. is he ? yes he's f***ed up before (keegan and kinnear) yet now we are in a position of improving on the pitch and hopefully in a financial position to keep it going. Oh, Maddy. You optimistic fool. it's the actual position we are in, not a projection though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 is he ? yes he's f***ed up before (keegan and kinnear) yet now we are in a position of improving on the pitch and hopefully in a financial position to keep it going. He made a decision during the season which didn't need to be made and because of it we're probably weaker as a club. If Pardew doesn't work out we're back to shopping at Netto when it comes to replacing him. No half decent manager is going to look as us and think he can come here and build something. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Heneage Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 Comparing Souness and Pardew situation is crazy imo. We'd just lost a top quality manager who built the team that took us to the Champions League. Hughton just got us out of the Championship. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 Personally, I wasn't too happy when WBA thumped us 3-1. Today i'm content with our season. The team's weaker due to the sale of Carroll, the club isn't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 is he ? yes he's f***ed up before (keegan and kinnear) yet now we are in a position of improving on the pitch and hopefully in a financial position to keep it going. He made a decision during the season which didn't need to be made and because of it we're probably weaker as a club. If Pardew doesn't work out we're back to shopping at Netto when it comes to replacing him. No half decent manager is going to look as us and think he can come here and build something. i guess you mean carroll. well my reading is that most managers would have sold at that price and if he fails there will be plenty of managers wanting to have a crack at it, not top level as we arent a top level club but many managres would want to have a crack at a premire league club with this following, even if only as a stepping stone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 Comparing Souness and Pardew situation is crazy imo. We'd just lost a top quality manager who built the team that took us to the Champions League. Hughton just got us out of the Championship. The two situations are similar in as much we were derided for both sackings. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 Personally, I wasn't too happy when WBA thumped us 3-1. Today i'm content with our season. The team's weaker due to the sale of Carroll, the club isn't. well put. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 i guess you mean carroll. well my reading is that most managers would have sold at that price and if he fails there will be plenty of managers wanting to have a crack at it, not top level as we arent a top level club but many managres would want to have a crack at a premire league club with this following, even if only as a stepping stone. I wasn't on about Carroll, I was on about sacking the manager when we didn't have to. I honestly don't think a half decent manager would touch us unless it was somebody with a connection to the club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foluwashola Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 Personally, I wasn't too happy when WBA thumped us 3-1. Today i'm content with our season. The team's weaker due to the sale of Carroll, the club isn't. well put. Can't remember many being happy with that West Brom game tbf. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keefaz Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 Personally, I wasn't too happy when WBA thumped us 3-1. Today i'm content with our season. The team's weaker due to the sale of Carroll, the club isn't. In what way? We had a #9 striker who could have been here for 10 years. Souness spent £50m and we went backwards: Pardew is quite capable of doing the same. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 i guess you mean carroll. well my reading is that most managers would have sold at that price and if he fails there will be plenty of managers wanting to have a crack at it, not top level as we arent a top level club but many managres would want to have a crack at a premire league club with this following, even if only as a stepping stone. I wasn't on about Carroll, I was on about sacking the manager when we didn't have to. I honestly don't think a half decent manager would touch us unless it was somebody with a connection to the club. by half decent do you mean a proven manager ? if so we wouldn't get one anyway, we'd be looking at someone with something to prove.....which is where we are. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 by half decent do you mean a proven manager ? if so we wouldn't get one anyway, we'd be looking at someone with something to prove.....which is where we are. We've had proven managers in the past, even if they haven't worked out. Allardyce was the last proven manager who a few thought would do a good job. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 by half decent do you mean a proven manager ? if so we wouldn't get one anyway, we'd be looking at someone with something to prove.....which is where we are. We've had proven managers in the past, even if they haven't worked out. Allardyce was the last proven manager who a few thought would do a good job. how did you feel about the appointment of allardyce ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Comparing Souness and Pardew situation is crazy imo. We'd just lost a top quality manager who built the team that took us to the Champions League. Hughton just got us out of the Championship. The two situations are similar in as much we were derided for both sackings. And yet different in the idea that Souness took Robson's European chasing side and turned it into an average midtable side. Whilst Pardew has taken Hughton's average midtable side and turned it into an average midtable side. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 how did you feel about the appointment of allardyce ? When he was first appointed I thought that he was the best that we could get. Once the club was taken over I thought he was the wrong man for the job. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 And yet different in the idea that Souness took Robson's European chasing side and turned it into an average midtable side. Whilst Pardew has taken Hughton's average midtable side and turned it into an average midtable side. As far as I'm concerned, both sackings were wrong at the time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 And I wholeheartedly agree. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 And I wholeheartedly agree. Good, I can go to bed now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtype Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Just hope it doesn't go tits up with Pardew in his second season like it did for him at West Ham. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
80 Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Aye, that's my stance as well. For all the praise he got for the Arsenal game he gets the criticism for today. You cannot go blaming him for one and then saying he had nothing to do with the other, it's completely irrational and unfair. His level of influence on the game may well have been different between the two given the two circumstances, but he's the manager so he's obviously played a huge part in both, for good and for bad. On this point, I've got to disagree. There are so many different factors in each game (both specifically, and in a wider 'team x scores four to equalise against team y' sense), not least the psychology, that it just doesn't balance out to say it's 6 and half a dozen. Anything less than some kind of comeback (not necessarily a draw) against Arsenal would have been as shameful a game as they come and we would probably have spun straight towards relegation. You can only think of praising him for such a big turn around if he had to achieve such a big turn around in the first place. To that extent, mounting a counter-attack was value neutral. To try and explain one of my points, we could say a manager has long term and short term influence over a team. Short term, to some extent, is talks, tactics and subs. Long term is the more institutional nature of the squad - their approach, mentality, talents etc. Now, I'd definitely argue it was the long term factors which got us through the Arsenal game, often times things he couldn't impact upon even if he wanted to unfortunately for him seeing as he was still new on the scene - the sense of self-respect people like Joey Barton had, and (recent) traditions Simpson felt he had to live up to etc. That was what let them visualise even trying to even the score up after a sending off. For what it's worth, I wouldn't (and didn't at half-time) particularly hold the result against Pardew, as to a large extent I believe/d he was a victim of circumstances bigger and older than his time at the club. In contrast, today's collapse (which, yes, meant we'd climbed high to allow the fall in the first place). I should say, I wasn't at today's game so it's not so easy for me to comment, but it seems to me to have been more a combination of short and long term factors (bringing on Smith, not selecting Tiote and losing us the £3m we could have bought his replacement with - versus - having only one decent defensive midfielder in the first place, and an uninspired, complacent squad mentality). But one of the things that is bothering me is that now Pardew's been here a while, we've 'coincidentally' developed this habit of throwing away leads and victories, often well into injury time, that we never had under Hughton. A slightly harsh statistic, but the 6 points we've lost to 90+ minute goals alone under him would've had us in a comfortable 8th. One thing that could at least be said for us before he came is that we were solid - we usually kept results, and if anyone scored late it was us. I don't mean to focus on Hughton, but our main failing with him was chasing victories when dead level, lacking the talent to kill it and getting sucker punched. Now, our leads have become unreliable, and I can feel that monkey starting to crawl onto our back all over again. He's far better than Souness. I'll give you that, although I think ultimately they're likely to actually achieve similar things in England. No major insult, mind... most managers given enough time will oversee a relegation. Even Clough. One thing I do wanna say again seeing as I've noticed a few people say Pardew has done well because he's 'coped' with terrible injuries - you've really got to wonder why it is we only started getting them after he arrived. Don't forget the facts, our record had cleared up brilliantly over the prior 18 months, no under-soil heating excuses required. We haven't 'always' had a sicknote squad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts