TRon Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Would I be right to think if we do hold on to 6th, it's our joint 7th best season since we last won the title? (5th one season in the 70s, the 4 top 6 finishes mid-90s and the 3 top 5 finishes under Bobby?) EDIT: We had a season there in the 30s and a few 40s/50s. Would I be right in saying if we finish 7th, Roeder would have done a better job with less resources and playing much better football the season he got us into Europe? Did Roeder spend approximately -£20m too? The squad Roeder inherited consisted of about £50m worth of players we'd just spent out on 4-5 months earlier. Yes I remember that squad well. We had hitman Shola up front banging them in left and right while Michael owen was on his sofa playing on his PS2. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beren Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Selection committee won us the league 4 times. Limited resources anarl. Bring back the committee, that's what I say. Hughton won us the Teresa Herrera, tbh Up there with the likes of Barca, Bayern and Real http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teresa_Herrera_Trophy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Would I be right to think if we do hold on to 6th, it's our joint 7th best season since we last won the title? (5th one season in the 70s, the 4 top 6 finishes mid-90s and the 3 top 5 finishes under Bobby?) EDIT: We had a season there in the 30s and a few 40s/50s. Would I be right in saying if we finish 7th, Roeder would have done a better job with less resources and playing much better football the season he got us into Europe? Did Roeder spend approximately -£20m too? The squad Roeder inherited consisted of about £50m worth of players we'd just spent out on 4-5 months earlier. Yes I remember that squad well. We had hitman Shola up front banging them in left and right while Michael owen was on his sofa playing on his PS2. That was a crap team tbh, just goes against your budget theory. Also, after Roeder got us 7th in his half a season, we nearly went down in his full season...Pardew kept us mid-table, then took us to at least 7th by the looks of things in his first full season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Would I be right to think if we do hold on to 6th, it's our joint 7th best season since we last won the title? (5th one season in the 70s, the 4 top 6 finishes mid-90s and the 3 top 5 finishes under Bobby?) EDIT: We had a season there in the 30s and a few 40s/50s. Would I be right in saying if we finish 7th, Roeder would have done a better job with less resources and playing much better football the season he got us into Europe? Did Roeder spend approximately -£20m too? The squad Roeder inherited consisted of about £50m worth of players we'd just spent out on 4-5 months earlier. Yes I remember that squad well. We had hitman Shola up front banging them in left and right while Michael owen was on his sofa playing on his PS2. That was a crap team tbh, just goes against your budget theory. Also, after Roeder got us 7th in his half a season, we nearly went down in his full season...Pardew kept us mid-table, then took us to at least 7th by the looks of things in his first full season. I don't have a budget theory, it was you who mentioned how much Roeder spent. My point was that league positions over a short term don't really mean that much. The key question remains whether Pardew will be able to make the best of the squad as it continues to improve. You could give Graeme Souness a half decent team and sometimes he'd win, sometimes he'd lose. Is Pardew capable of making good players into a good team? I'm yet to be convinced on that score as usually after a year in charge a manager has put some way of playing established, but at this moment Pardew's looks particularly woeful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tyson Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 classic NO forum "debate" going on again: Group A: results have been good, performances poor and ultimately that's likely to lead to poorer results unless pardew changes his tactics and selections in the long run... Group B: we're 6th man, you can't criticize pardew for results, it's a disgrace to even think of that Group A: agree that results are good, saying that in future they're likely to not be good anymore Group B: but results are good, we're 6th man repeat until pardew is fired We have a seasons worth of performances that show little correlation between possession/domination & results in comparison to the importance of simply having a very strong defensive system and attackers that will do enough to get the points. If teams have a very hard time scoring against you & you are good at putting the ball in the net, you will win games against most sides. Pardew has put in place the defensive system that achieves that & bought the attackers that do the business the other side. In what way is it likely that this will suddenly stop working? I wouldn't delegate that much praise on Pardew's doorstep, for systematically & deliberately targetting 'finishers' that are capable of killing sides with very few chances created in open play. The team's genuine matchwinners are Ba, Ben Arfa and now Cisse - with special mention to Collo as an additional threat from set-pieces. And those attackers mentioned falls into the overall policy of identifying & pursuiing players whose current value has opportunistically slipped below their true market worth, and can be moved-on for a profit. Arfa: damaged goods (at Marseille, prior to his loan) with his contract running into it's final two years. OM attempts to tout him (to bigger spending clubs, for a higher transfer fee) failed. Ba: we cashed in on a contractual release clause. Cisse: Freiburg's valuation far exceeds ours in the Summer, and we're appropriately rebuffed. Freiburg's table predicament changes later in the year (unexpectantly poor season) and the spectre of relegation forces an unexpected firesale of arguably their top asset, as they seek to reinforce the playing list (on a limited budget) for the post-Jan relegation fight . While they're on our books , with Ba hopefully secured to a new deal, all three are capable of putting 40m, into the coffers, for outgoing transfer deals. HBA is the wildcard in that lot, if he fully realizes his potential and doesn't become distracted, namely by man-management issues. The attacking trio in particular, thanks to their technique and athletic ability alone, are capable of scoring against the run-of-play. They'll survive in a turgid playing system of anti-football, on talent alone, but likewise we won't get the best out them over the long haul - just sporadic bursts. This type of Souness/Fat Sam/Kinnear/Pardew defensive anti-football goes against every principle they've been taught, and it will likely chip away at their morale over time. Ben Arfa has already made called-out Pardew's style of football, in that it goes against everything that he has been taught at Clairefontaine, by directly comparing it against & making reference to Brendan Rodger's pass-and-move football. They deserve better. It's sucker-punch football which is being coached by Pardew, and those genuine match-winners with resale value (who can conjure a score out of nothing) in many of our narrow wins this season will be difficult to replace. Within the constraints of our budget, by consistently attempting to acquire this calibre of player on the cheap, top-6 finishes (let alone top half) is unsustainable. Ba's and Ben Arfa's don't grow trees for a combined transfer fee of less than 10m. And it's a self-defeating style of play for any club hoping to develop raw talent from within the academy set-up, as the gulf in football coaching philosophies (between a more technical base at the academy level, and Pardew's) too wide a dividing gap. The Barcelona's, Ajax's and Arsenal's of the footballing world are consistent (re: their overall tactical philosophy) from academy to first team. Positive judgement is always passed on the rapidfire development once their youngsters are finally blooded into the first team picture. They look like seasoned already. Natural talent obviously has to be there, but the transition to first-team football is seamless. The gameplan and tactics are already entrenched, and that's thanks to having a consistent coaching & tactical mindset at all levels. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sicko2ndbest Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 I hope people realise that Pardew is here for the long run. MA and DL seem to love him. It would take relegation form for them to consider getting rid! Don't forget Stone and Carver are part of this team! Both of them love working with AP. Be careful what you wish for Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BooBoo Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Yep, I think barring a disastrous run of form, Pards is here for the long run. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Shaun Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Isn't that a good thing? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BooBoo Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Isn't that a good thing? Depends what camp you're in I suppose. There's certainly merit though in giving someone a fair crack rather than the tedious rotation of managers every 18-24 months that we endured under Shepherd. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG32 Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 I dunno like, they are pretty ruthless and it has been proven before. Once they think he has underachived he'll be gone. Im still willing to give him a chance but it does look like he has lost his bottle and doesn't know what to do with Cisse in the side. I shudder to think what KK could do with this attacking line up.. Arfa Cabaye Tiote Jonas Ba Cisse Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BooBoo Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Please don't bring KK into this, man. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 3 of those aren't KK players, tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 My concerns with Pardew are simple, on what I've seen this season I'm not convinced he can get anywhere near the best out of a squad that will undoubtedly be improved over the summer due to his over riding negativity. Yes we've been positive and passed at times but the default tactic has always been contain and defend no matter who we're playing home or away. We currently have the best recruitment policy i can remember and I don't want it to be wasted on a manager that doesn't know how to utilise players who can pass and move. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Shaun Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 I dunno like, they are pretty ruthless and it has been proven before. Once they think he has underachived he'll be gone. Im still willing to give him a chance but it does look like he has lost his bottle and doesn't know what to do with Cisse in the side. I shudder to think what KK could do with this attacking line up.. Arfa Cabaye Tiote Jonas Ba Cisse They aren't ruthless at all. The fans are the ruthless ones. And KK couldn't do shit with: Coloccini Enrique Nolan Barton Martins Owen Jonas Emre N'Zogbia ect. So I doubt it. The man hadn't even followed football for 5+ years when he was hired. *edit* James Milner as well! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 I dunno like, they are pretty ruthless and it has been proven before. Once they think he has underachived he'll be gone. Im still willing to give him a chance but it does look like he has lost his bottle and doesn't know what to do with Cisse in the side. I shudder to think what KK could do with this attacking line up.. Arfa Cabaye Tiote Jonas Ba Cisse They aren't ruthless at all. The fans are the ruthless ones. And KK couldn't do s*** with: Coloccini Enrique Nolan Barton Martins Owen Jonas Emre N'Zogbia ect. So I doubt it. The man hadn't even followed football for 5+ years when he was hired. *edit* James Milner as well! You what? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliottman Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Isn't that a good thing? A bit of stability would be nice for a change. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Shaun Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 I dunno like, they are pretty ruthless and it has been proven before. Once they think he has underachived he'll be gone. Im still willing to give him a chance but it does look like he has lost his bottle and doesn't know what to do with Cisse in the side. I shudder to think what KK could do with this attacking line up.. Arfa Cabaye Tiote Jonas Ba Cisse They aren't ruthless at all. The fans are the ruthless ones. And KK couldn't do s*** with: Coloccini Enrique Nolan Barton Martins Owen Jonas Emre N'Zogbia ect. So I doubt it. The man hadn't even followed football for 5+ years when he was hired. *edit* James Milner as well! You what? KEVIN KEEGAN COULDN'T DO SHIT WITH THAT GROUP OF PLAYERS. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 I would add however that if he does make a shift towards a style that's more likely to keep us in the top 6 next season without solely relying on a 20 goal season from Ba or Cisse, that having gone through this season of being 'hard to beat' first and everything else second, we do have a chance of being very handy indeed. How often do you see a manager change his philosophy so drastically though? It could be argued Mancini did it to a certain extent last summer and went from defensive to attacking? We'll see, good job this season results wise though OBVIOUSLY. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEEJ Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 I dunno like, they are pretty ruthless and it has been proven before. Once they think he has underachived he'll be gone. Im still willing to give him a chance but it does look like he has lost his bottle and doesn't know what to do with Cisse in the side. I shudder to think what KK could do with this attacking line up.. Arfa Cabaye Tiote Jonas Ba Cisse They aren't ruthless at all. The fans are the ruthless ones. And KK couldn't do s*** with: Coloccini Enrique Nolan Barton Martins Owen Jonas Emre N'Zogbia ect. So I doubt it. The man hadn't even followed football for 5+ years when he was hired. *edit* James Milner as well! You what? KEVIN KEEGAN COULDN'T DO s*** WITH THAT GROUP OF PLAYERS. Did you miss the bit where he had them playing in a 4-3-3? If you hadn't done already with your countless drivel, you've just made yourself sound a bit foolish. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGuv Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Interesting post Shaun. Keegan only had Colo and Jonas for what 3 games? So we can rule those 2 out. Even though they played tremendously well against Man U in their first game. I suppose you're right about Nolan though. He was awful with him. I mean it must have been hard to include him considering Kinnear bought him in 4 months after KK had left. If I remember correctly too it was Keegan who actually played Jose even though Allardyce bought him yet persisted to play N'Zogbia full back instead. And Milner on the left wing! Keegan actually used these players properly and started to get the best out of them from March onwards. So think before you post you doylum Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Interesting post Shaun. Keegan only had Colo and Jonas for what 3 games? So we can rule those 2 out. Even though they played tremendously well against Man U in their first game. I suppose you're right about Nolan though. He was awful with him. I mean it must have been hard to include him considering Kinnear bought him in 4 months after KK had left. If I remember correctly too it was Keegan who actually played Jose even though Allardyce bought him yet persisted to play N'Zogbia full back instead. And Milner on the left wing! Keegan actually used these players properly and started to get the best out of them from March onwards. So think before you post you doylum Keegan even got some form out of Geremi. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGuv Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Aye he actually scored under him Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG32 Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 They aren't ruthless at all. The fans are the ruthless ones. And KK couldn't do s*** with: Coloccini Enrique Nolan Barton Martins Owen Jonas Emre N'Zogbia ect. So I doubt it. The man hadn't even followed football for 5+ years when he was hired. *edit* James Milner as well! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Shaun Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Interesting post Shaun. Keegan only had Colo and Jonas for what 3 games? So we can rule those 2 out. Even though they played tremendously well against Man U in their first game. I suppose you're right about Nolan though. He was awful with him. I mean it must have been hard to include him considering Kinnear bought him in 4 months after KK had left. If I remember correctly too it was Keegan who actually played Jose even though Allardyce bought him yet persisted to play N'Zogbia full back instead. And Milner on the left wing! Keegan actually used these players properly and started to get the best out of them from March onwards. So think before you post you doylum I always thought Allardyce signed Nolan. Doesn't change the fact he almost go us relegated with a far better squad than we have now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 That squad was fucking crap, man. And we finished 12th. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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