Alan Pardew

[mrmojorisin75]

can you imagine what keegan would do with ba, cisse, hba, cabaye, tiote & jonas as a front 6 man?  or bobby for that matter

[Guest Shaun]

can you imagine what keegan would do with ba, cisse, hba, cabaye, tiote & jonas as a front 6 man?  or bobby for that matter

Keegan would disrupt the stability, leave, turn us into a laughing stock and get us relegated again. then try his hardest to put us into administration.

[mrmojorisin75]

woeful

[Guest Tyson]

can you imagine what keegan would do with ba, cisse, hba, cabaye, tiote & jonas as a front 6 man?  or bobby for that matter

 

As brief as it was he was able to reinvent Owen, by employing him deeper in a three man set-up uptop. KK saught to take advantage of Owen's football smarts, while identifying that a long run of injuries had robbed him of the explosiveness (over the first 50-10 yds) needed to spring open the last line of defense. Inspired tactical management at the time, and another indicator at how adept Keegan was at utilising the tools he had at his disposal.

 

I think Pardew and others (and Allardyce is the prime example) overcomplicate the pre-match & mid-week prep, by going overkill in analysing videos of upcoming opposition, scouring Pro-Zone or similarly derived stats. The consequence being they spend a disproportionate amount of time developing defensive schemes etc on a game-by-game basis. There's alot of overcoaching going on, and i suspect that's what is taking place at the moment, along with Pardew's anti-football philosophy.

 

It's a physically & mentally taxing game to adhere to a strict defensive scheme, which always varies on a match-to-match basis. Team shape (in attack & defense) is mostly achieved by utilising players whose particular skillsets compliment one and other. It's a constant if you get that 'player balance' right.

[Guest Shaun]

woeful

Still. . . gotta love him, right?

[mrmojorisin75]

woeful

Still. . . gotta love him, right?

 

gotta love you

[Guest Tyson]

I dunno like, they are pretty ruthless and it has been proven before.  Once they think he has underachived he'll be gone.

 

Im still willing to give him a chance but it does look like he has lost his bottle and doesn't know what to do with Cisse in the side.

 

I shudder to think what KK could do with this attacking line up..

 

 

Arfa            Cabaye            Tiote              Jonas

 

 

                            Ba

 

                                            Cisse

They aren't ruthless at all. The fans are the ruthless ones.

 

And KK couldn't do s*** with:

 

Coloccini

Enrique

Nolan

Barton

Martins

Owen

Jonas

Emre

N'Zogbia

ect.

 

So I doubt it. The man hadn't even followed football for 5+  years when he was hired. *edit*

 

James Milner as well!

 

The man was mostly playing golf in Spain with his old mentor & mate, occasionally attending club functions/doing the speaking circuit thing, and without a coaching badge to his name before he was initially approached by Shepherd & Hall Jr.

 

Converting Howey from an attacking midfielder (an average one too) to a classy cental defender. Same goes for Rob Lee, wide midfielder (but not penetrative enough make the grade as a winger) to a bloody good box-to-box central mid. A couple of early coaching masterstrokes for you to mull over, where he identified strengths & weakness' and got the best out of them. Not bad for a bloke who was seemingly unqualified, and was enjoying the retired lifestyle away from the game.

[Guest Tyson]

classic NO forum "debate" going on again:

 

Group A: results have been good, performances poor and ultimately that's likely to lead to poorer results unless pardew changes his tactics and selections in the long run...

Group B: we're 6th man, you can't criticize pardew for results, it's a disgrace to even think of that

Group A: agree that results are good, saying that in future they're likely to not be good anymore

Group B: but results are good, we're 6th man

 

repeat until pardew is fired

 

We have a seasons worth of performances that show little correlation between possession/domination & results in comparison to the importance of simply having a very strong defensive system and attackers that will do enough to get the points. If teams have a very hard time scoring against you & you are good at putting the ball in the net, you will win games against most sides. Pardew has put in place the defensive system that achieves that & bought the attackers that do the business the other side. In what way is it likely that this will suddenly stop working?

 

I wouldn't delegate that much praise on Pardew's doorstep, for systematically & deliberately targetting 'finishers' that are capable of killing sides with very few chances created in open play.

 

The team's genuine matchwinners are Ba, Ben Arfa and now Cisse - with special mention to Collo as an additional threat from set-pieces. And those attackers mentioned falls into the overall policy of identifying & pursuiing players whose current value has opportunistically slipped below their true market worth, and can be moved-on for a profit.

 

Arfa: damaged goods (at Marseille, prior to his loan) with his contract running into it's final two years. OM attempts to tout him (to bigger spending clubs, for a higher transfer fee) failed.

Ba: we cashed in on a contractual release clause.

Cisse: Freiburg's valuation far exceeds ours in the Summer, and we're appropriately rebuffed. Freiburg's table predicament changes later in the year (unexpectantly poor season) and the spectre of relegation forces an unexpected firesale of arguably their top asset, as they seek to reinforce the playing list (on a limited budget) for the post-Jan relegation fight .

 

While they're on our books , with Ba hopefully secured to a new deal, all three are capable of putting 40m, into the coffers, for outgoing transfer deals. HBA is the wildcard in that lot, if he fully realizes his potential and doesn't become distracted, namely by man-management issues.

 

 

The attacking trio in particular, thanks to their technique and athletic ability alone, are capable of scoring against the run-of-play. They'll survive in a turgid playing system of anti-football, on talent alone, but likewise we won't get the best out them over the long haul - just sporadic bursts. This type of Souness/Fat Sam/Kinnear/Pardew defensive anti-football goes against every principle they've been taught, and it will likely chip away at their morale over time. Ben Arfa has already made called-out Pardew's style of football, in that it goes against everything that he has been taught at Clairefontaine, by directly comparing it against & making reference to Brendan Rodger's pass-and-move football. They deserve better.

 

It's sucker-punch football which is being coached by Pardew, and those genuine match-winners with resale value (who can conjure a score out of nothing) in many of our narrow wins this season will be difficult to replace. Within the constraints of our budget, by consistently attempting to acquire this calibre of player on the cheap, top-6 finishes (let alone top half) is unsustainable. Ba's and Ben Arfa's don't grow trees for a combined transfer fee of less than 10m.

 

And it's a self-defeating style of play for any club hoping to develop raw talent from within the academy set-up, as the gulf in football coaching philosophies (between a more technical base at the academy level, and Pardew's) too wide a dividing gap. The Barcelona's, Ajax's and Arsenal's of the footballing world are consistent (re: their overall tactical philosophy) from academy to first team. Positive judgement is always passed on the rapidfire development once their youngsters are finally blooded into the first team picture. They look like seasoned already. Natural talent obviously has to be there, but the transition to first-team football is seamless. The gameplan and tactics are already entrenched, and that's thanks to having a consistent coaching & tactical mindset at all levels.

 

 

 

Agree with most of that. What's the thing about Ben Arfa and the style of football?

 

It was post-match after our first clash with Swansea, whether it was directly after or during the following week i can't specifically remember. He made mention of & admired Swansea's style of play, after they outpassed & outmoved us in that said match. It was the type pass-and-move footy that he was taught, back in his junior/academy days at Clarefontaine.

[Tooj]

Just for the record, I don't think Keegan would have the current side any higher than 5th or 6th. But he didn't do that bad a job with the 07-08 side, who were frankly a f***ing disgrace.

Aye, I think we'd be around the same position but we'd be playing a better style of football.

[Guest BooBoo]

Where has this nonsense came from that Swansea out passed and outmoved us at SJP? They came to get a 0-0 draw and were one of the most negative visiting sides we've seen in a long time.

[Benwell Lad]

Where has this nonsense came from that Swansea out passed and outmoved us at SJP? They came to get a 0-0 draw and were one of the most negative visiting sides we've seen in a long time.

 

Aye some blurred memories there, they were pretty awful at SJP and we absolutely murdered them 0-0.

Got to admire Swansea's first season in the big league but didn't they get beaten at home by Norwich recently ?

[ATB]

How can you compare us with Swansea as a measure how well a passing orientated football play is regarding to our hoof? Read the finance article in one of the other threads. We are way behind the "top 6" and I´m sure we are way ahead Swansea in terms of finance.

 

Beside. We have much better players then them. And they are not that far behind us. They are closer us then we are Man City, that would be just as fair example as I sees it.

 

Again. Our position and point tally is really good. The problem I, and many others have, is that we been rather lucky to pick up many of the points when have taken when we really doesn´t has to been.

 

If we could try and play more of a passing game we would have more control of the games. Now we just fall back and wait for the opponent. It won´t succeed for ever. the reason that it still is in some sense is of individually performance such as Krul, Colo, Ba, Cisse, Arfa etc.

 

BUT, Why don´t we just take control of games instead?!!! It´s not just about playing beautifully. It just as much about stopping the other team from creating chances. We have the players to do that. But we don´t have a manager that is capable/willing to do that. THAT IS THE PROBLEM.

[JH]

That's exactly what this thread needed, a good ol' KK discussion

 

Where's NE5? Might as well have the full package and throw Shepherd into the mix...

[Benwell Lad]

That's exactly what this thread needed, a good ol' KK discussion

 

Where's NE5? Might as well have the full package and throw Shepherd into the mix...

 

Aye. If the FCB hadn't brought his cockney mate Pardew in we wouldn't be in this almighty mess !

[buzza]

Can't fault him to be honest! We all expected NUFC to be around mid table at best after selling our supposed top dogs. Pardew has, albeit in fits and starts, had us playing some controlled football and very controlled defensive set ups to defend leads. I honestly think he is playing one type of football until we score and then he reverts to a much more pragmatic style after taking the lead.

I have no complaints, he has totally superseded any aspirations I had over a year ago!

[Dr Venkman]

Can't fault him to be honest! We all expected NUFC to be around mid table at best after selling our supposed top dogs. Pardew has, albeit in fits and starts, had us playing some controlled football and very controlled defensive set ups to defend leads. I honestly think he is playing one type of football until we score and then he reverts to a much more pragmatic style after taking the lead.

I have no complaints, he has totally superseded any aspirations I had over a year ago!

 

we sold the mackems?

[TRon]

Does anybody really think we sold Nolan and Barton because Pardew wanted to? Or was it those above him who made that decision?

 

 

[Dr Venkman]

I don't think Pardew has a say on who comes in or goes out. He might be in the room while it's discussed, he might say stuff, but ultimately I reckon he's got as much authority as you or I.

[Mr Logic]

Does anybody really think we sold Nolan and Barton because Pardew wanted to? Or was it those above him who made that decision?

 

 

 

I've always suspected Pardew was quite keen to get rid of Nolan, not so certain about Barton though.

[Guest neesy111]

Does anybody really think we sold Nolan and Barton because Pardew wanted to? Or was it those above him who made that decision?

 

 

 

I've always suspected Pardew was quite keen to get rid of Nolan, not so certain about Barton though.

 

I'd go along with this, though I suspect the club wanted the players committee to be dismantled.  Even S. Taylor said it couldn't continue like it was.

[colinmk]

classic NO forum "debate" going on again:

 

Group A: results have been good, performances poor and ultimately that's likely to lead to poorer results unless pardew changes his tactics and selections in the long run...

Group B: we're 6th man, you can't criticize pardew for results, it's a disgrace to even think of that

Group A: agree that results are good, saying that in future they're likely to not be good anymore

Group B: but results are good, we're 6th man

 

repeat until pardew is fired

 

We have a seasons worth of performances that show little correlation between possession/domination & results in comparison to the importance of simply having a very strong defensive system and attackers that will do enough to get the points. If teams have a very hard time scoring against you & you are good at putting the ball in the net, you will win games against most sides. Pardew has put in place the defensive system that achieves that & bought the attackers that do the business the other side. In what way is it likely that this will suddenly stop working?

 

I wouldn't delegate that much praise on Pardew's doorstep, for systematically & deliberately targetting 'finishers' that are capable of killing sides with very few chances created in open play.

 

The team's genuine matchwinners are Ba, Ben Arfa and now Cisse - with special mention to Collo as an additional threat from set-pieces. And those attackers mentioned falls into the overall policy of identifying & pursuiing players whose current value has opportunistically slipped below their true market worth, and can be moved-on for a profit.

 

Arfa: damaged goods (at Marseille, prior to his loan) with his contract running into it's final two years. OM attempts to tout him (to bigger spending clubs, for a higher transfer fee) failed.

Ba: we cashed in on a contractual release clause.

Cisse: Freiburg's valuation far exceeds ours in the Summer, and we're appropriately rebuffed. Freiburg's table predicament changes later in the year (unexpectantly poor season) and the spectre of relegation forces an unexpected firesale of arguably their top asset, as they seek to reinforce the playing list (on a limited budget) for the post-Jan relegation fight .

 

While they're on our books , with Ba hopefully secured to a new deal, all three are capable of putting 40m, into the coffers, for outgoing transfer deals. HBA is the wildcard in that lot, if he fully realizes his potential and doesn't become distracted, namely by man-management issues.

 

 

The attacking trio in particular, thanks to their technique and athletic ability alone, are capable of scoring against the run-of-play. They'll survive in a turgid playing system of anti-football, on talent alone, but likewise we won't get the best out them over the long haul - just sporadic bursts. This type of Souness/Fat Sam/Kinnear/Pardew defensive anti-football goes against every principle they've been taught, and it will likely chip away at their morale over time. Ben Arfa has already made called-out Pardew's style of football, in that it goes against everything that he has been taught at Clairefontaine, by directly comparing it against & making reference to Brendan Rodger's pass-and-move football. They deserve better.

 

It's sucker-punch football which is being coached by Pardew, and those genuine match-winners with resale value (who can conjure a score out of nothing) in many of our narrow wins this season will be difficult to replace. Within the constraints of our budget, by consistently attempting to acquire this calibre of player on the cheap, top-6 finishes (let alone top half) is unsustainable. Ba's and Ben Arfa's don't grow trees for a combined transfer fee of less than 10m.

 

And it's a self-defeating style of play for any club hoping to develop raw talent from within the academy set-up, as the gulf in football coaching philosophies (between a more technical base at the academy level, and Pardew's) too wide a dividing gap. The Barcelona's, Ajax's and Arsenal's of the footballing world are consistent (re: their overall tactical philosophy) from academy to first team. Positive judgement is always passed on the rapidfire development once their youngsters are finally blooded into the first team picture. They look like seasoned already. Natural talent obviously has to be there, but the transition to first-team football is seamless. The gameplan and tactics are already entrenched, and that's thanks to having a consistent coaching & tactical mindset at all levels.

 

 

 

Agree with most of that. What's the thing about Ben Arfa and the style of football?

 

It was post-match after our first clash with Swansea, whether it was directly after or during the following week i can't specifically remember. He made mention of & admired Swansea's style of play, after they outpassed & outmoved us in that said match. It was the type pass-and-move footy that he was taught, back in his junior/academy days at Clarefontaine.

 

Interesting.

[TRon]

Does anybody really think we sold Nolan and Barton because Pardew wanted to? Or was it those above him who made that decision?

 

 

 

I've always suspected Pardew was quite keen to get rid of Nolan, not so certain about Barton though.

 

But judging by the type of football we've been playing this season it wouldn't make sense to get rid of either as they are both made for the long ball game, especially Nolan. I remember posting in this thread in the summer it would be interesting to see how Pardew would adapt to the new players being bought in as they were of a more technical nature. it seems to me he's really struggled to get any sort of style or fluency with the new guys which suggests they were brought in because they were good deals rather than because Pardew particularly wanted them.

[Guest Deadmau5]

How many more windows with Pardew promising one thing, and then getting something completely different do we need to confirm that its not him in charge of incomings?

 

I do think they listen to what he has to say and what he wants, but it ultimately comes down to whats available at a cut-price cost really. At least thats how I think it works.

[Guest Shaun]

I don't think Pardew has a say on who comes in or goes out. He might be in the room while it's discussed, he might say stuff, but ultimately I reckon he's got as much authority as you or I.

Mike Ashley should just make himself manager if that's the case.

[Benwell Lad]

How many more windows with Pardew promising one thing, and then getting something completely different do we need to confirm that its not him in charge of incomings?

 

I do think they listen to what he has to say and what he wants, but it ultimately comes down to whats available at a cut-price cost really. At least thats how I think it works.

 

You really are full of shit. Is there anything at all you actually like about Newcastle ?