Super Duper Branko Strupar Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Shaun is the biggest WUM on the board. You've spelt 'Mongtastic Moron' incorrectly Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 So in conclusion Pardew has taken a squad of players, who most people thought would struggle or be relegated, to 6th in the table with more than three quarters of the season played and given the club a possibility of European football next season. He has a good transfer market record, the apparent support of the club's owner, a solid and improving coaching, scouting and development system in place and 92.2% of people in a quite large N-O poll think he is doing OK, good or brilliant. Indeed 70.1% say he is doing either "good" or "brilliant". It would appear he is here for the long term and most supporters seem to prefer a shift towards that kind of stability. However the style football currently being played is not as eye pleasing as many wish for and the team is making hard work of every point we gain right now. Most of us want to see a more attacking style and prolonged periods of offensive possession rather than a cagey approach to defending slender leads. 1.6% of those polled think he is doing a "terrible" job. It is probably apparent who they are and they keep this thread burning hot arguing their case. No doubt the press who scan these threads to provide their stories when there's no real news to report, will soon start murmering about fans not being entirely happy with the management set up, but really it only appears to be a very small minority, albeit a vociferous one, who are not content with what the manager is doing. Good. We can now close the thread Great post though Disagree. It's not much more than a positive spin, whether any of that is an endorsement of Pardew as a manager is debateable. to be fair while i'm on your side 100% what the lad has stated here has as much grounding in fact and reality than anything you or i are claiming... Yep it could be that it's us who are not getting the bigger picture, which is why I said it was debatable. For example: the poll doesn't really mean much, as previous polls would have told us Enrique, Coloccini and Perch were all shite if you took them at certain points in time. The great transfer dealings - are they down to Pardew or scouts which were here before and will be here long after he's left? Is it true that we want more attacking football? or are more people like me in that we would just like to see us keep possession better rather than whack the ball down field? Fair enough we are 6th, there can't be much argument about that. But were any of us really thinking this was a relegation squad? I remember being pretty excited when we landed Marveaux, Ba and Cabaye. Seems to me this post is every bit as much hyperbole as the "sack Pardew" ones. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnypd Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 I dunno like, they are pretty ruthless and it has been proven before. Once they think he has underachived he'll be gone. Im still willing to give him a chance but it does look like he has lost his bottle and doesn't know what to do with Cisse in the side. I shudder to think what KK could do with this attacking line up.. Arfa Cabaye Tiote Jonas Ba Cisse They aren't ruthless at all. The fans are the ruthless ones. And KK couldn't do shit with: Coloccini Enrique Nolan Barton Martins Owen Jonas Emre N'Zogbia ect. So I doubt it. The man hadn't even followed football for 5+ years when he was hired. *edit* James Milner as well! No wonder he ended up leaving Man City, apparently he hadn't even "followed football" for the last 2+ years he was manager there! dimwit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Zaius Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 I dunno like, they are pretty ruthless and it has been proven before. Once they think he has underachived he'll be gone. Im still willing to give him a chance but it does look like he has lost his bottle and doesn't know what to do with Cisse in the side. I shudder to think what KK could do with this attacking line up.. Arfa Cabaye Tiote Jonas Ba Cisse They aren't ruthless at all. The fans are the ruthless ones. And KK couldn't do s*** with: Coloccini Enrique Nolan Barton Martins Owen Jonas Emre N'Zogbia ect. So I doubt it. The man hadn't even followed football for 5+ years when he was hired. *edit* James Milner as well! You what? KEVIN KEEGAN COULDN'T DO s*** WITH THAT GROUP OF PLAYERS. Yes he did, we played some of the best football ive seen at NUFC. We were certainly on the up with that group of players under KK. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzza Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Does James Milner ever get a game for city? haven't seen much of him lately... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Critical that if we do play more attractive stuff next season, that the results are good again to encourage him to keep with it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlelunchbox Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 get lost with the keegan s***, this is alan pardew's thread for heaven sake. some of you sound as bad as them bin dipping retards and their undying love and obsession for king kenny. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 get lost with the keegan s***, this is alan pardew's thread for heaven sake. some of you sound as bad as them bin dipping retards and their undying love and obsession for king kenny. I'm not dim enough to see that Keegan wasn't without his own faults but I've used his example quite a lot in this thread myself because for me he is the perfect example of a manager who has a clear vision of playing the passing game and how to implement it from coaching through to execution on the pitch. In that respect he's very relevant to this thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawK Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 That squad was f***ing crap, man. And we finished 12th. Lost something like 10 games in a row. If anyone thinks Keegan could do a better job than Pardew, then they are insane. lol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 can you imagine what keegan would do with ba, cisse, hba, cabaye, tiote & jonas as a front 6 man? or bobby for that matter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Shaun Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 can you imagine what keegan would do with ba, cisse, hba, cabaye, tiote & jonas as a front 6 man? or bobby for that matter Keegan would disrupt the stability, leave, turn us into a laughing stock and get us relegated again. then try his hardest to put us into administration. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 woeful Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tyson Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 can you imagine what keegan would do with ba, cisse, hba, cabaye, tiote & jonas as a front 6 man? or bobby for that matter As brief as it was he was able to reinvent Owen, by employing him deeper in a three man set-up uptop. KK saught to take advantage of Owen's football smarts, while identifying that a long run of injuries had robbed him of the explosiveness (over the first 50-10 yds) needed to spring open the last line of defense. Inspired tactical management at the time, and another indicator at how adept Keegan was at utilising the tools he had at his disposal. I think Pardew and others (and Allardyce is the prime example) overcomplicate the pre-match & mid-week prep, by going overkill in analysing videos of upcoming opposition, scouring Pro-Zone or similarly derived stats. The consequence being they spend a disproportionate amount of time developing defensive schemes etc on a game-by-game basis. There's alot of overcoaching going on, and i suspect that's what is taking place at the moment, along with Pardew's anti-football philosophy. It's a physically & mentally taxing game to adhere to a strict defensive scheme, which always varies on a match-to-match basis. Team shape (in attack & defense) is mostly achieved by utilising players whose particular skillsets compliment one and other. It's a constant if you get that 'player balance' right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Shaun Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 woeful Still. . . gotta love him, right? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 woeful Still. . . gotta love him, right? gotta love you Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tyson Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I dunno like, they are pretty ruthless and it has been proven before. Once they think he has underachived he'll be gone. Im still willing to give him a chance but it does look like he has lost his bottle and doesn't know what to do with Cisse in the side. I shudder to think what KK could do with this attacking line up.. Arfa Cabaye Tiote Jonas Ba Cisse They aren't ruthless at all. The fans are the ruthless ones. And KK couldn't do s*** with: Coloccini Enrique Nolan Barton Martins Owen Jonas Emre N'Zogbia ect. So I doubt it. The man hadn't even followed football for 5+ years when he was hired. *edit* James Milner as well! The man was mostly playing golf in Spain with his old mentor & mate, occasionally attending club functions/doing the speaking circuit thing, and without a coaching badge to his name before he was initially approached by Shepherd & Hall Jr. Converting Howey from an attacking midfielder (an average one too) to a classy cental defender. Same goes for Rob Lee, wide midfielder (but not penetrative enough make the grade as a winger) to a bloody good box-to-box central mid. A couple of early coaching masterstrokes for you to mull over, where he identified strengths & weakness' and got the best out of them. Not bad for a bloke who was seemingly unqualified, and was enjoying the retired lifestyle away from the game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tyson Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 classic NO forum "debate" going on again: Group A: results have been good, performances poor and ultimately that's likely to lead to poorer results unless pardew changes his tactics and selections in the long run... Group B: we're 6th man, you can't criticize pardew for results, it's a disgrace to even think of that Group A: agree that results are good, saying that in future they're likely to not be good anymore Group B: but results are good, we're 6th man repeat until pardew is fired We have a seasons worth of performances that show little correlation between possession/domination & results in comparison to the importance of simply having a very strong defensive system and attackers that will do enough to get the points. If teams have a very hard time scoring against you & you are good at putting the ball in the net, you will win games against most sides. Pardew has put in place the defensive system that achieves that & bought the attackers that do the business the other side. In what way is it likely that this will suddenly stop working? I wouldn't delegate that much praise on Pardew's doorstep, for systematically & deliberately targetting 'finishers' that are capable of killing sides with very few chances created in open play. The team's genuine matchwinners are Ba, Ben Arfa and now Cisse - with special mention to Collo as an additional threat from set-pieces. And those attackers mentioned falls into the overall policy of identifying & pursuiing players whose current value has opportunistically slipped below their true market worth, and can be moved-on for a profit. Arfa: damaged goods (at Marseille, prior to his loan) with his contract running into it's final two years. OM attempts to tout him (to bigger spending clubs, for a higher transfer fee) failed. Ba: we cashed in on a contractual release clause. Cisse: Freiburg's valuation far exceeds ours in the Summer, and we're appropriately rebuffed. Freiburg's table predicament changes later in the year (unexpectantly poor season) and the spectre of relegation forces an unexpected firesale of arguably their top asset, as they seek to reinforce the playing list (on a limited budget) for the post-Jan relegation fight . While they're on our books , with Ba hopefully secured to a new deal, all three are capable of putting 40m, into the coffers, for outgoing transfer deals. HBA is the wildcard in that lot, if he fully realizes his potential and doesn't become distracted, namely by man-management issues. The attacking trio in particular, thanks to their technique and athletic ability alone, are capable of scoring against the run-of-play. They'll survive in a turgid playing system of anti-football, on talent alone, but likewise we won't get the best out them over the long haul - just sporadic bursts. This type of Souness/Fat Sam/Kinnear/Pardew defensive anti-football goes against every principle they've been taught, and it will likely chip away at their morale over time. Ben Arfa has already made called-out Pardew's style of football, in that it goes against everything that he has been taught at Clairefontaine, by directly comparing it against & making reference to Brendan Rodger's pass-and-move football. They deserve better. It's sucker-punch football which is being coached by Pardew, and those genuine match-winners with resale value (who can conjure a score out of nothing) in many of our narrow wins this season will be difficult to replace. Within the constraints of our budget, by consistently attempting to acquire this calibre of player on the cheap, top-6 finishes (let alone top half) is unsustainable. Ba's and Ben Arfa's don't grow trees for a combined transfer fee of less than 10m. And it's a self-defeating style of play for any club hoping to develop raw talent from within the academy set-up, as the gulf in football coaching philosophies (between a more technical base at the academy level, and Pardew's) too wide a dividing gap. The Barcelona's, Ajax's and Arsenal's of the footballing world are consistent (re: their overall tactical philosophy) from academy to first team. Positive judgement is always passed on the rapidfire development once their youngsters are finally blooded into the first team picture. They look like seasoned already. Natural talent obviously has to be there, but the transition to first-team football is seamless. The gameplan and tactics are already entrenched, and that's thanks to having a consistent coaching & tactical mindset at all levels. Agree with most of that. What's the thing about Ben Arfa and the style of football? It was post-match after our first clash with Swansea, whether it was directly after or during the following week i can't specifically remember. He made mention of & admired Swansea's style of play, after they outpassed & outmoved us in that said match. It was the type pass-and-move footy that he was taught, back in his junior/academy days at Clarefontaine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Just for the record, I don't think Keegan would have the current side any higher than 5th or 6th. But he didn't do that bad a job with the 07-08 side, who were frankly a f***ing disgrace. Aye, I think we'd be around the same position but we'd be playing a better style of football. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BooBoo Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Where has this nonsense came from that Swansea out passed and outmoved us at SJP? They came to get a 0-0 draw and were one of the most negative visiting sides we've seen in a long time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benwell Lad Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Where has this nonsense came from that Swansea out passed and outmoved us at SJP? They came to get a 0-0 draw and were one of the most negative visiting sides we've seen in a long time. Aye some blurred memories there, they were pretty awful at SJP and we absolutely murdered them 0-0. Got to admire Swansea's first season in the big league but didn't they get beaten at home by Norwich recently ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATB Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 How can you compare us with Swansea as a measure how well a passing orientated football play is regarding to our hoof? Read the finance article in one of the other threads. We are way behind the "top 6" and I´m sure we are way ahead Swansea in terms of finance. Beside. We have much better players then them. And they are not that far behind us. They are closer us then we are Man City, that would be just as fair example as I sees it. Again. Our position and point tally is really good. The problem I, and many others have, is that we been rather lucky to pick up many of the points when have taken when we really doesn´t has to been. If we could try and play more of a passing game we would have more control of the games. Now we just fall back and wait for the opponent. It won´t succeed for ever. the reason that it still is in some sense is of individually performance such as Krul, Colo, Ba, Cisse, Arfa etc. BUT, Why don´t we just take control of games instead?!!! It´s not just about playing beautifully. It just as much about stopping the other team from creating chances. We have the players to do that. But we don´t have a manager that is capable/willing to do that. THAT IS THE PROBLEM. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 That's exactly what this thread needed, a good ol' KK discussion Where's NE5? Might as well have the full package and throw Shepherd into the mix... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benwell Lad Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 That's exactly what this thread needed, a good ol' KK discussion Where's NE5? Might as well have the full package and throw Shepherd into the mix... Aye. If the FCB hadn't brought his cockney mate Pardew in we wouldn't be in this almighty mess ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzza Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Can't fault him to be honest! We all expected NUFC to be around mid table at best after selling our supposed top dogs. Pardew has, albeit in fits and starts, had us playing some controlled football and very controlled defensive set ups to defend leads. I honestly think he is playing one type of football until we score and then he reverts to a much more pragmatic style after taking the lead. I have no complaints, he has totally superseded any aspirations I had over a year ago! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Can't fault him to be honest! We all expected NUFC to be around mid table at best after selling our supposed top dogs. Pardew has, albeit in fits and starts, had us playing some controlled football and very controlled defensive set ups to defend leads. I honestly think he is playing one type of football until we score and then he reverts to a much more pragmatic style after taking the lead. I have no complaints, he has totally superseded any aspirations I had over a year ago! we sold the mackems? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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