bowlingcrofty Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 Considering he spends his whole life scouting France, it says a lot that we end up with the likes of Cabella, Marveaux and Thauvin whilst we decided Payet, Aubameyang and Lacazette weren't worth pursuing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovejoy Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 Considering he spends his whole life scouting France, it says a lot that we end up with the likes of Cabella, Marveaux and Thauvin whilst we decided Payet, Aubameyang and Lacazette weren't worth pursuing. Don't know about payet, but aubameyang and lacazette only weren't with pursuing because they cost a few quid. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 Considering he spends his whole life scouting France, it says a lot that we end up with the likes of Cabella, Marveaux and Thauvin whilst we decided Payet, Aubameyang and Lacazette weren't worth pursuing. The latter two were definitely on his radar, and mentioned before they hit the big time too, but as always we went in low and the other club just laughed in our face. That's why we got someone like Riviere, not because he was first choice by any means but because he was all we were willing to shell out for. Edit: according to this so was Payet: http://metro.co.uk/2013/06/19/arsenal-eye-lille-forward-dimitri-payet-as-gervinho-replacement-3847442/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nufc4eva Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 Payet was linked with us for quite a while. I think we are just cheapskates when it comes to negotiations. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sempuki Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 He needs to play a blinder. Can only see more imports though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
samag Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 He's just a f***ing scout. He gets told to go and find cheap s**** and does so. He spent £50 million in the summer. And he's restricted to looking for mercenaries we can potentially sell on for a profit. He's the least of our worries. he is the main problem. Any manger would struggle with this squad, he has had plenty of time to get a half decent balanced squad. instead we have a squad packed with players not good enough or always injured. He needs to take his share of the blame for this he takes a share of the blame, sure, but then given what you know about the way ashley runs the club what on earth makes you think it's anything other than seeking bargains and potential sell on value that dictates which of the targets we go for? we've been linked with plenty of players over the last 4-5 years that could be top class but we'd never ever pay the money to get them How many players has he found and sold on for big profits ? most are simply not good enough . Not arguing the point how Ashley runs the club, Just the fact Carr comes up with more crap than anything else.. Said before say it again any manager would Struggle with the squad Carr has given him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 He's just a f***ing scout. He gets told to go and find cheap s**** and does so. He spent £50 million in the summer. And he's restricted to looking for mercenaries we can potentially sell on for a profit. He's the least of our worries. he is the main problem. Any manger would struggle with this squad, he has had plenty of time to get a half decent balanced squad. instead we have a squad packed with players not good enough or always injured. He needs to take his share of the blame for this he takes a share of the blame, sure, but then given what you know about the way ashley runs the club what on earth makes you think it's anything other than seeking bargains and potential sell on value that dictates which of the targets we go for? we've been linked with plenty of players over the last 4-5 years that could be top class but we'd never ever pay the money to get them How many players has he found and sold on for big profits ? most are simply not good enough . Not arguing the point how Ashley runs the club, Just the fact Carr comes up with more crap than anything else.. Said before say it again any manager would Struggle with the squad Carr has given him. Absolutely do not agree with your final point especially, nor your overall conclusion that Carr bears most of the blame. I reserve that for Ashley and his balance sheet monkey who really decide who we buy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
samag Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 He's just a f***ing scout. He gets told to go and find cheap s**** and does so. He spent £50 million in the summer. And he's restricted to looking for mercenaries we can potentially sell on for a profit. He's the least of our worries. he is the main problem. Any manger would struggle with this squad, he has had plenty of time to get a half decent balanced squad. instead we have a squad packed with players not good enough or always injured. He needs to take his share of the blame for this he takes a share of the blame, sure, but then given what you know about the way ashley runs the club what on earth makes you think it's anything other than seeking bargains and potential sell on value that dictates which of the targets we go for? we've been linked with plenty of players over the last 4-5 years that could be top class but we'd never ever pay the money to get them How many players has he found and sold on for big profits ? most are simply not good enough . Not arguing the point how Ashley runs the club, Just the fact Carr comes up with more crap than anything else.. Said before say it again any manager would Struggle with the squad Carr has given him. Absolutely do not agree with your final point especially, nor your overall conclusion that Carr bears most of the blame. I reserve that for Ashley and his balance sheet monkey who really decide who we buy. so you are saying most managers would not struggle with our Midfield. Ginger Jack and his mate are a joke. we have no decent fit wingers. our defence cannot keep clean sheets. The players are not good enough ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 He's just a f***ing scout. He gets told to go and find cheap s**** and does so. He spent £50 million in the summer. And he's restricted to looking for mercenaries we can potentially sell on for a profit. He's the least of our worries. he is the main problem. Any manger would struggle with this squad, he has had plenty of time to get a half decent balanced squad. instead we have a squad packed with players not good enough or always injured. He needs to take his share of the blame for this he takes a share of the blame, sure, but then given what you know about the way ashley runs the club what on earth makes you think it's anything other than seeking bargains and potential sell on value that dictates which of the targets we go for? we've been linked with plenty of players over the last 4-5 years that could be top class but we'd never ever pay the money to get them How many players has he found and sold on for big profits ? most are simply not good enough . Not arguing the point how Ashley runs the club, Just the fact Carr comes up with more crap than anything else.. Said before say it again any manager would Struggle with the squad Carr has given him. Absolutely do not agree with your final point especially, nor your overall conclusion that Carr bears most of the blame. I reserve that for Ashley and his balance sheet monkey who really decide who we buy. so you are saying most managers would not struggle with our Midfield. Ginger Jack and his mate are a joke. we have no decent fit wingers. our defence cannot keep clean sheets. The players are not good enough ... I think a good manager would be able to forge something more than we're seeing from Sissoko, Wijnaldum, Anita, Thauvin, Perez, Mitrovic & Aarons yes. There's others not mentioned that could probably be coaxed to contribute more under good management but we don't have good management. Certainly more than 17 fucking points after 19 games. The squad is poor but I slated Pardew and Carver for their inability to get the most out of what they were given and I'm not giving McClaren a pass for the same thing. Not one player has improved since he arrived, in fact he's arguably managed to regress more than one first team player since turning up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh74 Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 Have we made more money back than what we've wasted on players? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 He's just a f***ing scout. He gets told to go and find cheap s**** and does so. He spent £50 million in the summer. And he's restricted to looking for mercenaries we can potentially sell on for a profit. He's the least of our worries. he is the main problem. Any manger would struggle with this squad, he has had plenty of time to get a half decent balanced squad. instead we have a squad packed with players not good enough or always injured. He needs to take his share of the blame for this he takes a share of the blame, sure, but then given what you know about the way ashley runs the club what on earth makes you think it's anything other than seeking bargains and potential sell on value that dictates which of the targets we go for? we've been linked with plenty of players over the last 4-5 years that could be top class but we'd never ever pay the money to get them How many players has he found and sold on for big profits ? most are simply not good enough . Not arguing the point how Ashley runs the club, Just the fact Carr comes up with more crap than anything else.. Said before say it again any manager would Struggle with the squad Carr has given him. Absolutely do not agree with your final point especially, nor your overall conclusion that Carr bears most of the blame. I reserve that for Ashley and his balance sheet monkey who really decide who we buy. so you are saying most managers would not struggle with our Midfield. Ginger Jack and his mate are a joke. we have no decent fit wingers. our defence cannot keep clean sheets. The players are not good enough ... I think a good manager would be able to forge something more than we're seeing from Sissoko, Wijnaldum, Anita, Thauvin, Perez, Mitrovic & Aarons yes. There's others not mentioned that could probably be coaxed to contribute more under good management but we don't have good management. Certainly more than 17 f***ing points after 19 games. The squad is poor but I slated Pardew and Carver for their inability to get the most out of what they were given and I'm not giving McClaren a pass for the same thing. Not one player has improved since he arrived, in fact he's arguably managed to regress more than one first team player since turning up. Spot on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 Have we made more money back than what we've wasted on players? Fuck knows, but even if we haven't, can you blame Graham Carr for the fact that we have let someone like Ben Arfa go for free, or Santon for peanuts? He recommends players, he does not decide who we buy, let alone how they are used or what they are sold for. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
samag Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 He's just a f***ing scout. He gets told to go and find cheap s**** and does so. He spent £50 million in the summer. And he's restricted to looking for mercenaries we can potentially sell on for a profit. He's the least of our worries. he is the main problem. Any manger would struggle with this squad, he has had plenty of time to get a half decent balanced squad. instead we have a squad packed with players not good enough or always injured. He needs to take his share of the blame for this he takes a share of the blame, sure, but then given what you know about the way ashley runs the club what on earth makes you think it's anything other than seeking bargains and potential sell on value that dictates which of the targets we go for? we've been linked with plenty of players over the last 4-5 years that could be top class but we'd never ever pay the money to get them How many players has he found and sold on for big profits ? most are simply not good enough . Not arguing the point how Ashley runs the club, Just the fact Carr comes up with more crap than anything else.. Said before say it again any manager would Struggle with the squad Carr has given him. Absolutely do not agree with your final point especially, nor your overall conclusion that Carr bears most of the blame. I reserve that for Ashley and his balance sheet monkey who really decide who we buy. so you are saying most managers would not struggle with our Midfield. Ginger Jack and his mate are a joke. we have no decent fit wingers. our defence cannot keep clean sheets. The players are not good enough ... I think a good manager would be able to forge something more than we're seeing from Sissoko, Wijnaldum, Anita, Thauvin, Perez, Mitrovic & Aarons yes. There's others not mentioned that could probably be coaxed to contribute more under good management but we don't have good management. Certainly more than 17 f***ing points after 19 games. The squad is poor but I slated Pardew and Carver for their inability to get the most out of what they were given and I'm not giving McClaren a pass for the same thing. Not one player has improved since he arrived, in fact he's arguably managed to regress more than one first team player since turning up. Anita is rubbish Sissoko and Perez maybe, Aarons is never fit. unless you have decent wingers Mitrovic will struggle. Wijnaldum, looks decent but shoved out wide because we have no decent fit wingers . I will stick by my statement most mangers would struggle with the squad we have. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 How do you define "struggle" samag? Have us firmly rooted in the bottom three? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 The "most managers" claim is astonishing really, managers are literally the most important people at a football club and we keep employing shit ones to try and get the best out of a flawed recruitment policy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
samag Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 How do you define "struggle" samag? Have us firmly rooted in the bottom three? we are rooted in the bottom three what I am saying most mangers would be with this squad of players.. Not for one moment saying Mcclaren is the right man for the job, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 So let's say out of the current 20 Premier League managers you believe that more than half of them would not have us higher up than 17th with less than a point per game? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
samag Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 The "most managers" claim is astonishing really, managers are literally the most important people at a football club and we keep employing s*** ones to try and get the best out of a flawed recruitment policy If the players are not good enough how do you expect a manger to do well ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 The "most managers" claim is astonishing really, managers are literally the most important people at a football club and we keep employing s*** ones to try and get the best out of a flawed recruitment policy If the players are not good enough how do you expect a manger to do well ? Conversely, if the manager is not good enough and keeps playing players out of position, deploying negative tactics and destroying players' confidence as our last three incumbents have done, how do you expect the players to do well? It works both ways. The thing I just don't understand is that it is cheaper and more effective to try and appoint a better manager to improve results than it is to keep throwing money at getting better players in. That said, we are doing neither, but a better manager could make a huge difference for a relatively minimal outlay. Sadly though, pedigree as a manager is fairly low on our list of priorities when we occasionally find ourselves in a position to make an upgrade. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 The "most managers" claim is astonishing really, managers are literally the most important people at a football club and we keep employing s*** ones to try and get the best out of a flawed recruitment policy If the players are not good enough how do you expect a manger to do well ? Conversely, if the manager is not good enough and keeps playing players out of position, deploying negative tactics and destroying players' confidence as our last three incumbents have done, how do you expect the players to do well? It works both ways. The thing I just don't understand is that it is cheaper and more effective to try and appoint a better manager to improve results than it is to keep throwing money at getting better players in. That said, we are doing neither, but a better manager could make a huge difference for a relatively minimal outlay. Sadly though, pedigree as a manager is fairly low on our list of priorities when we occasionally find ourselves in a position to make an upgrade. To answer samags question very few teams in the league have perfect squads with the players they want in every position, the managers job is to mould what he has into a functioning unit that can either attack well, defend well, or perform a mixture of the two preferably. I refuse to believe that a good manager could not get more out of the players we have, at the very least they could score plenty of goals. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
samag Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 So let's say out of the current 20 Premier League managers you believe that more than half of them would not have us higher up than 17th with less than a point per game? who knows , not many would have many more points,. we are second best in most games and have been for the past few years. under three different managers. The players are not good enough that the problem that needs fixing first. If we had a decent squad and were stuck in the bottom three then the manger has to take the blame. I think you are living in dream world if you think another manger is going to come along and get this team out of the bottom six.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 We'll just have to agree to disagree. Pardew, as horrifically useless as he was as a manager and as much as it pains me to admit it, had an arguably worse squad than this sitting midtable on five points more this time last season. There is a reason that the three different managers you mention weren't employed by clubs at this level when we hang our hats on them. Only at this club would it be perceivable to not sack Pardew after underachieving for so long, then replace him with fucking John Carver to piss away another half a season (and almost PL survival) to wait for Steve McClaren. All three are mediocre managers at best. Buy aye, let's continue replacing the players until it clicks, that will work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
samag Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 I don't disagree.that McClellan is the right man. Either the tranafer policy has to change or the man in charge of that policy has to go first. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 So let's say out of the current 20 Premier League managers you believe that more than half of them would not have us higher up than 17th with less than a point per game? who knows , not many would have many more points,. we are second best in most games and have been for the past few years. under three different managers. The players are not good enough that the problem that needs fixing first. If we had a decent squad and were stuck in the bottom three then the manger has to take the blame. I think you are living in dream world if you think another manger is going to come along and get this team out of the bottom six.. We are second best in most games because we've had 4 years of Pardew and Carver which we've now followed up with Steve fucking McClaren man. Plenty of managers could do better with this squad, absolutely no doubt about it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 McClellan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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