Guest NufcBano Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 For the record, I would pick Messi. But I just think Ronny gets ignored far too easily. .....its probably because he is a pr*ck. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lush Vlad Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 ..... and because he isn't as good as Messi. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guinness_fiend Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 ..... and because he isn't as good as Messi. Is the right answer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmonkey Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 If we're to compare "like for like" as close as we can, imo Brazilian Ronaldo at Barca and early Inter was that extra bit better than Messi. Less consistent/precise/refined (or more "wild") than what Messi is today, but then again Messi has had 5+ years since breaking through to get to this level of lethal consistency - Ronaldo would have gotten there had he stayed at Barcelona (as Sir Bobby told him to) and remained injury free till his mid 20's. Peak form for Madrid or WC'02 for example, he was lethal and far more precise than his younger years despite being a shadow of the player he used to be. Beyond that, I personally think the early Ronaldo was more electric, causing the opposition more problems on his own (at all levels) than Messi. His footwork/drop of the shoulder/turning ability was greater, he had a wider variety of tricks up his sleeve making him more unpredictable, his movement was immense, and he did everything at full pace - I think he was quite a bit faster than Messi personally (and part of the reason why he was less consistent at that age, i.e. he'd often run into culdesacs or slice his shots wide because everything was so quick). Don't get me wrong, there's not a huge amount in it. If there's a way to summarise this opinion, I'd say that Messi is the more consistent/efficient player, more likely to put a team to the sword if they can't handle him, but he can be shut out and reduced to dropping deeper with enough effort, whereas the young Ronaldo was nigh on unstoppable for 90 minutes at any level (at some point he'll turn someone and have a clean view of goal) no matter the team he was in or the occassion, but was far more likely to miss good chances. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Village Idiot Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Cronaldo himself trotting out the line that "the best have to prove it in different countries" in an interview with a Portuguese TV today Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gggg Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 I saw an interesting stat. Messi has 1 goal in 7 games against Italian teams and that was a penalty. Those crazy Italians with their non-clownshoe defending and closing down space. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guinness_fiend Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 I saw an interesting stat. Messi has 1 goal in 7 games against Italian teams and that was a penalty. Those crazy Italians with their non-clownshoe defending and closing down space. He was the best player on the pitch during mid-week. Even when he doesn't score, he controls the midfield / attack. This is the difference between him and Cronaldo. If Cronaldo doesn't score, he is largely anonymous. Plus, Milan got away with some disgraceful challenges on him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 I saw an interesting stat. Messi has 1 goal in 7 games against Italian teams and that was a penalty. Those crazy Italians with their non-clownshoe defending and closing down space. how many games did barca lose from those 7 out of interest? given that the hallmark of italian football is good defending marking messi out of the game is one thing, winning the game while marking him out of it another i'd imagine Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Village Idiot Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 I can't recall which game is the 7th, probably one from when he was coming through I guess. The record is 2/3/1 He also got a couple assists in those. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishmael Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 But he is certainly less effective against Italian teams. Hasn't got the best record against English sides either? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishmael Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 And when i say 'the best', it's obviously in relation to his phenomenal domestic record. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Village Idiot Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 2 goals in two CL finals against ManU, 4 goals in a single game against Arsenal... I think he's fine to be frank. Chelsea 2009 is the only tie against an English team where he hasn't scored since he became a starter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fugazi Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 8 goals against English teams, in about 10 matches. I think... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishmael Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 I thought it was worse than that. Fair enough. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guinness_fiend Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 2 goals in two CL finals against ManU, 4 goals in a single game against Arsenal... I think he's fine to be frank. Chelsea 2009 is the only tie against an English team where he hasn't scored since he became a starter. He's not too shabby, like. And just because he doesn't score many against Italian teams doesn't make him any less effective. As I mentioned above, he is not Cronaldo - he gives more to Barca than just goals, which is exactly why everyone fauns over him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fugazi Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 I thought it was worse than that. Fair enough. Obviously that one game against Arsenal helps his stats a lot like. I remember him being class against Man Utd at Old Trafford, when Scholes scored that screamer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 He's a ridiculously good player, think a lot of the problems people have was identified think on football weekly, he doesn't have that wild fantasy element, like perhaps ronaldinho had or whatever where they'd do or try completely bonkers ridiculous feats and it wouldn't quite make sense. Messi is different, he just routinely is brilliant, but without flair I suppose. Arguably makes him better but also makes him a touch more boring. These players also tend to be characters, and while everything I hear about Messi is that he's a lovely humble guy...erm that's oddly disappointing, like discovering david bowie drinks tea or something. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guinness_fiend Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 He's a ridiculously good player, think a lot of the problems people have was identified think on football weekly, he doesn't have that wild fantasy element, like perhaps ronaldinho had or whatever where they'd do or try completely bonkers ridiculous feats and it wouldn't quite make sense. Messi is different, he just routinely is brilliant, but without flair I suppose. Arguably makes him better but also makes him a touch more boring. These players also tend to be characters, and while everything I hear about Messi is that he's a lovely humble guy...erm that's oddly disappointing, like discovering david bowie drinks tea or something. Brilliant! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Village Idiot Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Messi "without flair"? Ronaldinho was more about the tricks, certainly, but Messi produces ridiculous stuff game in game out. And David Bowie probably drinks tea especially blended for him by 20 Sumatran virgins or something. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 I know he does, but he does make it all seem more normal, may just be about how often he does it, but sometimes it's the mad failed stuff that charms, whereas with messi think very little of what he does is showboating or not actually helping him score. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Village Idiot Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 I see what you mean, Ronaldinho was infuriating/wanktastic on equal parts in that regard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Anyway this thread does seem to be forgetting joe cole is better than messi according to the mighty Gerrard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 He's a ridiculously good player, think a lot of the problems people have was identified think on football weekly, he doesn't have that wild fantasy element, like perhaps ronaldinho had or whatever where they'd do or try completely bonkers ridiculous feats and it wouldn't quite make sense. Messi is different, he just routinely is brilliant, but without flair I suppose. Arguably makes him better but also makes him a touch more boring. These players also tend to be characters, and while everything I hear about Messi is that he's a lovely humble guy...erm that's oddly disappointing, like discovering david bowie drinks tea or something. Brilliant! The lack of flamboyance in his character is part of what makes him exceptional. Unlike a lot of talented players, his concentration is total, he doesn't argue with refs, get angry with opponents, criticise team-mates, get disheartened, sulk or show off. He is totally absorbed in the game. Apparently he is very shy. In his early time at Barca, he asked if he could get changed away from the dressing room. It wasn't anything to do with his manhood - he genuinely found it difficult to face a roomful of noisy strangers. I doubt whether he'd move from Barca, where he feels protected, and this aspect of his character may explain his form when he's playing for Argentina. This element of self-containment is apparent in his play. He doesn't get distracted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 I can't recall which game is the 7th, probably one from when he was coming through I guess. The record is 2/3/1 He also got a couple assists in those. reads very much like you'd expect the stats to between the best footballing team of their generation and italian teams....messi's personal stats also reflect this too clearly Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Village Idiot Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Anyway this thread does seem to be forgetting joe cole is better than messi according to the mighty Gerrard Ah yes, one of my favorite press clips of all time, together with the "Best players in the world (and Xavi)" Mail headline after the 2008 Ballon d'Or. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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