Football's greatest - where does Lionel Messi rank?

[mrmojorisin75]

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/pete-jenson-whos-the-daddy-now-cristiano-ronaldo-has-surely-seized-the-ballon-dor-from-lionel-messi-8952907.html

[The College Dropout]

Ronaldo may well be able to win games almost single-handedly for his country and against most of La Liga but at the very top level like champions league semi-finals etc you need more than that. The best team will more times than not beat the team that has the best player.

 

this sums up why messi has beat ronaldo so often for the awards tbh, ronaldo is a goal machine but you get the feeling if the goals dry up he's done for, with messi you know if he isn't scoring goals he's got the ability to dictate games at the very highest level

I would say a lot of people under-rate Christiano.

 

And the quoted is BS based on mystique. During his reign as the best in the world, Messi has been the difference, the goal machine. Dictating games while Busquets, Xavi and Iniesta have been playing? Nah.

 

People say things like that based on little evidence that they've seen from their own eyes.

[mrmojorisin75]

Ronaldo may well be able to win games almost single-handedly for his country and against most of La Liga but at the very top level like champions league semi-finals etc you need more than that. The best team will more times than not beat the team that has the best player.

 

this sums up why messi has beat ronaldo so often for the awards tbh, ronaldo is a goal machine but you get the feeling if the goals dry up he's done for, with messi you know if he isn't scoring goals he's got the ability to dictate games at the very highest level

I would say a lot of people under-rate Christiano.

 

And the quoted is BS based on mystique. During his reign as the best in the world, Messi has been the difference, the goal machine. Dictating games while Busquets, Xavi and Iniesta have been playing? Nah.

 

People say things like that based on little evidence that they've seen from their own eyes.

 

can you fucking read?

[BrettNUFC]

Ronaldo may well be able to win games almost single-handedly for his country and against most of La Liga but at the very top level like champions league semi-finals etc you need more than that. The best team will more times than not beat the team that has the best player.

 

this sums up why messi has beat ronaldo so often for the awards tbh, ronaldo is a goal machine but you get the feeling if the goals dry up he's done for, with messi you know if he isn't scoring goals he's got the ability to dictate games at the very highest level

I would say a lot of people under-rate Christiano.

 

And the quoted is BS based on mystique. During his reign as the best in the world, Messi has been the difference, the goal machine. Dictating games while Busquets, Xavi and Iniesta have been playing? Nah.

 

People say things like that based on little evidence that they've seen from their own eyes.

 

can you f***ing read?

 

To be fair, you said 'if the (Ronaldo) goals dry up he's done for' which is quite absurd to think Ronaldo only scores and doesn't do anything else.

[mrmojorisin75]

i did say that, but that's not what TCD was even referring to brett...i'll rephrase for then; "you get the feeling if the goals dry up he'll have much less of an impact overall"...i certainly do, i do not feel this with messi whatsover

 

better?  fucking hate having to spell things out like that, jesus, what did you think i meant that if he had a bad scoring run that'd be ronaldo on the scrapheap and sacked?  make the leap man

[Guest icemanblue]

Calm down, man.

[BrettNUFC]

i did say that, but that's not what TCD was even referring to brett...i'll rephrase for then; "you get the feeling if the goals dry up he'll have much less of an impact overall"...i certainly do, i do not feel this with messi whatsover

 

better?  f***ing hate having to spell things out like that, jesus, what did you think i meant that if he had a bad scoring run that'd be ronaldo on the scrapheap and sacked?  make the leap man

 

Well, not really better, it's still a load of horse cack what you're saying. Take someone’s goals away from them and they'll have less impact, hardly rocket science that. However say they did both stop scoring, they both would still be highly effective in their teams and still outstanding players because their attributes aren't just tailor made to just score goals, they have many other aspects to their game.

[Guest taps01]

i did say that, but that's not what TCD was even referring to brett...i'll rephrase for then; "you get the feeling if the goals dry up he'll have much less of an impact overall"...i certainly do, i do not feel this with messi whatsover

 

better?  f***ing hate having to spell things out like that, jesus, what did you think i meant that if he had a bad scoring run that'd be ronaldo on the scrapheap and sacked?  make the leap man

 

Jeez of course he will have less of an impact if the goals dry up...stating the obvious there! 

[mrmojorisin75]

Calm down, man.

 

i can't

 

everything needs to be explained down to the tiniest degree, it's killing me

[Tooj]

The only difference between Ronaldo and Messi is aesthetics and of course personal choice. They are both great great players, head and shoulders above everyone else. Ribery is a good player but that's about it. He is not on a level with Ronaldo, full stop.

 

You should stop posting about foreign footballers man. 

[Tooj]

So angry reading so many opinions in this thread. I don't think I could handle joining the discussion. Some people are still criminally underrating Cristiano Ronaldo. It's baffling.

 

In what way? I don't think anybody is doubting what a phenomenal footballer he is/possibly the greatest athlete to have ever played the game too.

[mrmojorisin75]

i did say that, but that's not what TCD was even referring to brett...i'll rephrase for then; "you get the feeling if the goals dry up he'll have much less of an impact overall"...i certainly do, i do not feel this with messi whatsover

 

better?  f***ing hate having to spell things out like that, jesus, what did you think i meant that if he had a bad scoring run that'd be ronaldo on the scrapheap and sacked?  make the leap man

 

Jeez of course he will have less of an impact if the goals dry up...stating the obvious there! 

 

i'm fucking out, this is clearly a wind up (which is succeeding)

[Flip]

So angry reading so many opinions in this thread. I don't think I could handle joining the discussion. Some people are still criminally underrating Cristiano Ronaldo. It's baffling.

 

Please enlighten us, I don't think anyone on here has clled CRonaldo anything less than the 2nd best footballer in the world, so please tell me how people are criminally underrating him?

 

What annoys me is the fact that people like you, the CRonaldo fan boys, are starting to say he MUST win it after he scored 4 goals in 2 games against Sweden and are putting him in the top echelon with the likes of Pele (who as a 21 year old scored 5 against Benfica over two legs in the intercontinental cup which was considered the biggest club game in the world). 4 GOALS AGAINST MIKAEL ANTONSSON AND PER NILSSON, I'm pretty sure Sweden would've gone through if it wasn't for those two also tbf.

[Flip]

i did say that, but that's not what TCD was even referring to brett...i'll rephrase for then; "you get the feeling if the goals dry up he'll have much less of an impact overall"...i certainly do, i do not feel this with messi whatsover

 

better?  f***ing hate having to spell things out like that, jesus, what did you think i meant that if he had a bad scoring run that'd be ronaldo on the scrapheap and sacked?  make the leap man

 

Well, not really better, it's still a load of horse cack what you're saying. Take someone’s goals away from them and they'll have less impact, hardly rocket science that. However say they did both stop scoring, they both would still be highly effective in their teams and still outstanding players because their attributes aren't just tailor made to just score goals, they have many other aspects to their game.

 

I think it's a fair comment to say that he does far less than Messi does. Messi scores more (except beginning of this season but I've already posted that they're actually not even far off) and Messi contributes more to general play in terms of creating chances, holding on to the ball. Just for the sake of it, what does Ronaldo do that he's great at except the obvious ones? Does he press high up the pitch constantly? Does he provide cover to Marcelo/Coentrao? Does he win ball back? Does he create a lot of chances out of nothing for his teammates?

 

I'm asking because so many seem to watch him week in week out.

 

 

[Beren]

So angry reading so many opinions in this thread. I don't think I could handle joining the discussion. Some people are still criminally underrating Cristiano Ronaldo. It's baffling.

 

Please enlighten us, I don't think anyone on here has clled CRonaldo anything less than the 2nd best footballer in the world, so please tell me how people are criminally underrating him?

 

What annoys me is the fact that people like you, the CRonaldo fan boys, are starting to say he MUST win it after he scored 4 goals in 2 games against Sweden and are putting him in the top echelon with the likes of Pele (who as a 21 year old scored 5 against Benfica over two legs in the intercontinental cup which was considered the biggest club game in the world). 4 GOALS AGAINST MIKAEL ANTONSSON AND PER NILSSON, I'm pretty sure Sweden would've gone through if it wasn't for those two also tbf.

 

Putting words in people's mouths to suit your argument there, Felipao.

[Flip]

So angry reading so many opinions in this thread. I don't think I could handle joining the discussion. Some people are still criminally underrating Cristiano Ronaldo. It's baffling.

 

Please enlighten us, I don't think anyone on here has clled CRonaldo anything less than the 2nd best footballer in the world, so please tell me how people are criminally underrating him?

 

What annoys me is the fact that people like you, the CRonaldo fan boys, are starting to say he MUST win it after he scored 4 goals in 2 games against Sweden and are putting him in the top echelon with the likes of Pele (who as a 21 year old scored 5 against Benfica over two legs in the intercontinental cup which was considered the biggest club game in the world). 4 GOALS AGAINST MIKAEL ANTONSSON AND PER NILSSON, I'm pretty sure Sweden would've gone through if it wasn't for those two also tbf.

 

Putting words in people's mouths to suit your argument there, Felipao.

 

How is that?

 

Is it just me or has the media turned around and said he must win it now? Isn't this exactly what has happened? Hasn't FIFA prolonged the voting-time? Hasn't this thread all the sudden become much more frequented after that game tuesday night?

[Guest icemanblue]

Nobody, not one single person, has said 'he MUST win it after he scored 4 goals in 2 games against Sweden'. It's become a discussion point because of the furore in the media, and the subsequent re-opening of voting by FIFA.

[The College Dropout]

i did say that, but that's not what TCD was even referring to brett...i'll rephrase for then; "you get the feeling if the goals dry up he'll have much less of an impact overall"...i certainly do, i do not feel this with messi whatsover

 

better?  f***ing hate having to spell things out like that, jesus, what did you think i meant that if he had a bad scoring run that'd be ronaldo on the scrapheap and sacked?  make the leap man

 

yeah if the goals dry up for Messi he wouldn't be the best in the world either. I don't see your point at all. "He would dominate games" or some other tosh. There's little evidence for that.

[Beren]

It's a lovely way to cap the year off, for sure, dragging your generally poor team into the World Cup Finals kicking and screaming on your back, and its shone a greater spotlight on his claim in the eyes of the media, but to childishly label posters as "fanboys" because they believe he should win it is barely worth responding to - many of whom thought he should win it before the second leg vs Sweden, myself included.

 

I don't give a fuck about who FIFA directly or indirectly lobby to win the thing FWIW, and I don't know why anyone would pay attention to them any more than they would to Paul Merson or some other know-nothing media expert.

 

As a separate point, to me it seems like a futile exercise to bang on and deride Per Nilsson etc. Are you going to similarly find out who was at fault for all the rest of Cronaldo's goals? Will they not count either then? I suppose you should do the same for Messi, Ribery and any other contender you feel appropriate. Truth is, players are justifiaby shit scared of these types of players and make more mistakes than they will against your bog standard crap forwards, but that fear is earnt and you can't disregard the profits yielded from that fear!

[Flip]

Nobody, not one single person, has said 'he MUST win it after he scored 4 goals in 2 games against Sweden'. It's become a discussion point because of the furore in the media, and the subsequent re-opening of voting by FIFA.

 

I didn't mean that people have said that he must win it BECAUSE he scored 4 in 2 against Sweden, but world media has really started to bring fire into it after he did it. Just a week ago the bookies all had Ribery as a favourite to win it, now all of the sudden Ronaldo is favourite. People think that after those four goals he should be a sure thing to it, while Messi gets no recognition at all for helping Argentina past a qualifiers much easier than Ronaldo did in a much harder games.

 

I seriously wouldn't be pissed if Ronaldo won it, because it's closer than it's been for years, but to say people criminally underrate someone who no one considers less than 2nd best in the world and to say that Ronaldo has been so much better in 2013 is astonishing. If anything Messi won the league in 2013, is sitting top in 2013, won the golden boot in 2013 in La Liga scoring 12 goals more than Cristiano (add two assists more and two penalties less in less playing time), who also in the CL scored only 4 less despite playing 400 minutes less as well. He also won his SA WC qualifier group which is much harder to do with than to beat teams like Russia (who finished above them).

 

[BrettNUFC]

i did say that, but that's not what TCD was even referring to brett...i'll rephrase for then; "you get the feeling if the goals dry up he'll have much less of an impact overall"...i certainly do, i do not feel this with messi whatsover

 

better?  f***ing hate having to spell things out like that, jesus, what did you think i meant that if he had a bad scoring run that'd be ronaldo on the scrapheap and sacked?  make the leap man

 

Well, not really better, it's still a load of horse cack what you're saying. Take someone’s goals away from them and they'll have less impact, hardly rocket science that. However say they did both stop scoring, they both would still be highly effective in their teams and still outstanding players because their attributes aren't just tailor made to just score goals, they have many other aspects to their game.

 

I think it's a fair comment to say that he does far less than Messi does. Messi scores more (except beginning of this season but I've already posted that they're actually not even far off) and Messi contributes more to general play in terms of creating chances, holding on to the ball. Just for the sake of it, what does Ronaldo do that he's great at except the obvious ones? Does he press high up the pitch constantly? Does he provide cover to Marcelo/Coentrao? Does he win ball back? Does he create a lot of chances out of nothing for his teammates?

 

I'm asking because so many seem to watch him week in week out.

 

Well do i pretty much watch the Sky games over La Liga the majority of weeks and Ronaldo simply doesn't just score. Pressing depends on teams style of play, so yes and no. Yes he doesn't track back and defend but neither does Messi, they both use their energy very well and play in bursts. Both are very capable of losing the ball but then winning it back again. Both create chances out of nowhere.

 

I'm not here to argue who is better of the two, imo Messi on top form is a clear winner and for me the greatest but i'm not accepting take Ronaldo's goals away and suddenly his impact on games diminishes, he's more than capable of creating things out of nowhere for team mates. Difference is Ronaldo is a lot more selfish than Messi when it comes to his team mates imo.

 

Both of their respective clubs play a different style of football which enhances Messi’s credentials of a team player because Barca are based on so much possession play. You rarely see Messi pick it up, beat a man then strike from 25 yards, that’s not how Barca work. So a 10 pass move ending with a neat one-two resulting in messi through on goal and scoring looks a lot better than Ronaldo skipping past a man to get his half a yard then firing into the top corner from 25 yards. They both have their freedom of the team but use it in different ways. To think with Ronaldo’s attributes and skill set that if he couldn’t score, his impact would decrease dramatically, is still baffling however.

[SiLvOR]

It's a lovely way to cap the year off, for sure, dragging your generally poor team into the World Cup Finals kicking and screaming on your back, and its shone a greater spotlight on his claim in the eyes of the media, but to childishly label posters as "fanboys" because they believe he should win it is barely worth responding to - many of whom thought he should win it before the second leg vs Sweden, myself included.

 

I don't give a fuck about who FIFA directly or indirectly lobby to win the thing FWIW, and I don't know why anyone would pay attention to them any more than they would to Paul Merson or some other know-nothing media expert.

 

As a separate point, to me it seems like a futile exercise to bang on and deride Per Nilsson etc. Are you going to similarly find out who was at fault for all the rest of Cronaldo's goals? Will they not count either then? I suppose you should do the same for Messi, Ribery and any other contender you feel appropriate. Truth is, players are justifiaby shit scared of these types of players and make more mistakes than they will against your bog standard crap forwards, but that fear is earnt and you can't disregard the profits yielded from that fear!

 

Top post. Agree with everything said.

[Flip]

It's a lovely way to cap the year off, for sure, dragging your generally poor team into the World Cup Finals kicking and screaming on your back, and its shone a greater spotlight on his claim in the eyes of the media, but to childishly label posters as "fanboys" because they believe he should win it is barely worth responding to - many of whom thought he should win it before the second leg vs Sweden, myself included.

 

I don't give a f*** about who FIFA directly or indirectly lobby to win the thing FWIW, and I don't know why anyone would pay attention to them any more than they would to Paul Merson or some other know-nothing media expert.

 

As a separate point, to me it seems like a futile exercise to bang on and deride Per Nilsson etc. Are you going to similarly find out who was at fault for all the rest of Cronaldo's goals? Will they not count either then? I suppose you should do the same for Messi, Ribery and any other contender you feel appropriate. Truth is, players are justifiaby s*** scared of these types of players and make more mistakes than they will against your bog standard crap forwards, but that fear is earnt and you can't disregard the profits yielded from that fear!

 

Well a lot of people outside of this forum were having their doubts now it's a sure thing that Ronaldo should win it, or it's criminal. I maybe used the word fanboys childlishly and I apologize. My point still stands. To call that generally poor is also quite a twisted view, they're inconsistent, not generally poor. If you watch enough of Portugal you would see that their problem is up top, with Ronaldo - Striker - Nani, cohesion is terrible and Ronaldo's a third of that.

[Flip]

i did say that, but that's not what TCD was even referring to brett...i'll rephrase for then; "you get the feeling if the goals dry up he'll have much less of an impact overall"...i certainly do, i do not feel this with messi whatsover

 

better?  f***ing hate having to spell things out like that, jesus, what did you think i meant that if he had a bad scoring run that'd be ronaldo on the scrapheap and sacked?  make the leap man

 

Well, not really better, it's still a load of horse cack what you're saying. Take someone’s goals away from them and they'll have less impact, hardly rocket science that. However say they did both stop scoring, they both would still be highly effective in their teams and still outstanding players because their attributes aren't just tailor made to just score goals, they have many other aspects to their game.

 

I think it's a fair comment to say that he does far less than Messi does. Messi scores more (except beginning of this season but I've already posted that they're actually not even far off) and Messi contributes more to general play in terms of creating chances, holding on to the ball. Just for the sake of it, what does Ronaldo do that he's great at except the obvious ones? Does he press high up the pitch constantly? Does he provide cover to Marcelo/Coentrao? Does he win ball back? Does he create a lot of chances out of nothing for his teammates?

 

I'm asking because so many seem to watch him week in week out.

 

Well do i pretty much watch the Sky games over La Liga the majority of weeks and Ronaldo simply doesn't just score. Pressing depends on teams style of play, so yes and no. Yes he doesn't track back and defend but neither does Messi, they both use their energy very well and play in bursts. Both are very capable of losing the ball but then winning it back again. Both create chances out of nowhere.

 

I'm not here to argue who is better of the two, imo Messi on top form is a clear winner and for me the greatest but i'm not accepting take Ronaldo's goals away and suddenly his impact on games diminishes, he's more than capable of creating things out of nowhere for team mates. Difference is Ronaldo is a lot more selfish than Messi when it comes to his team mates imo.

 

Both of their respective clubs play a different style of football which enhances Messi’s credentials of a team player because Barca are based on so much possession play. You rarely see Messi pick it up, beat a man then strike from 25 yards, that’s not how Barca work. So a 10 pass move ending with a neat one-two resulting in messi through on goal and scoring looks a lot better than Ronaldo skipping past a man to get his half a yard then firing into the top corner from 25 yards. They both have their freedom of the team but use it in different ways. To think with Ronaldo’s attributes and skill set that if he couldn’t score, his impact would decrease dramatically, is still baffling however.

 

Fair enough, although I've seen Messi take on, two or three and then hit it from 25 yards so yes it does happen. I think it would be good for everyone involved that Ronaldo wins this, I just don't buy this crap that he's underrated if it he doesn't or that FIFA is bought or that it's a popularity contest.

 

I enjoy seeing Ronaldo for the fact that he is such a direct player, you always know where he is going when he has the ball, which sometimes is a big problem when it comes to bigger games against better teams.

[Beren]

'Generally poor' is a bit strong, agreed.