Demba Ba (now retired)

[Jayson]

Wigans goals came from wide areas bar the 4th, specifically because we played 4-3-3 & they exploited it.

 

Quality of opposition & midfield strength obviously comes into it. The best sides arent going to be easily outplayed by us & our defence is more vunerable if that isnt happening with 4-3-3.

[ponsaelius]

For me, none of our players are suited to the 4-4-2.

 

Ben Arfa is not suited to playing wide in it, Jonas isn't productive enough as an orthadox wide man, Ba and Cisse don't seem to gel as a partnership and both are very poor at recieving the long-balls and holding up play. Cabaye looks far more effective when pushed forward from midfield.

 

When Marveaux gets back he's the kind of playe who can drift and play in and around forwards. He's got good crossing technique but he really doesn't strike me as a flying winger.

[ponsaelius]

Wigans goals came from wide areas bar the 4th, specifically because we played 4-3-3 & they exploited it.

 

Quality of opposition & midfield strength obviously comes into it. The best sides arent going to be easily outplayed by us & our defence is more vunerable if that isnt happening with 4-3-3.

 

3rd and fourth goals we were playing 3-5-2.

[madras]

Wigans goals came from wide areas bar the 4th, specifically because we played 4-3-3 & they exploited it.

 

Quality of opposition & midfield strength obviously comes into it. The best sides arent going to be easily outplayed by us & our defence is more vunerable if that isnt happening with 4-3-3.

did we play 4-3-3 v wigan. it's one of those games where we tried to be too fluid and instead defended like jelly and i really didn't have a clue what the plan was, which often happens when we go a goal behind.

[Mole_Toonfan]

For me, none of our players are suited to the 4-4-2.

 

Ben Arfa is not suited to playing wide in it, Jonas isn't productive enough as an orthadox wide man, Ba and Cisse don't seem to gel as a partnership and both are very poor at recieving the long-balls and holding up play. Cabaye looks far more effective when pushed forward from midfield.

 

When Marveaux gets back he's the kind of playe who can drift and play in and around forwards. He's got good crossing technique but he really doesn't strike me as a flying winger.

 

also to me Marveaux is a much as a winger as Silva is they strike me in style atleast as very similar players...

 

And yh the 3rd and 4th goals we were playing 3-5-2 and the first two were defensive errors ( Williamson and Colo)

[Jayson]

Theyre not intended to be suited towards 4-4-2 in an attacking sense when we play the best sides. 4-4-2 is the reason we got results for most of the season playing dodgy attacking football. We're very hard to score against & our strikers are class. Its been that simple.

[madras]

Theyre not intended to be suited towards 4-4-2 in an attacking sense when we play the best sides. 4-4-2 is the reason we got results for most of the season playing dodgy attacking football. We're very hard to score against & our strikers are class. Its been that simple.

if you want to look at it like that we've played 4-5-1 nearly all season when out of possession.

[Mole_Toonfan]

Theyre not intended to be suited towards 4-4-2 in an attacking sense when we play the best sides. 4-4-2 is the reason we got results for most of the season playing dodgy attacking football. We're very hard to score against & our strikers are class. Its been that simple.

 

First half of the season yes but we are a different team now..... we use to pump it up to Best or Shola and Ba would feed off any knockdowns or flicks.....

 

Now we are built around Ben Arfa, Cisse, Cabaye etc etc and those players dont fit 4-4-2 it is designed for kick and run football ( there was more subtlety to it than that but point remains) technical players like the ones we have in the team now are not suited to the gameplan.

[Jayson]

Yes but against the best attackers, Pardew is more concerned with covering our defence than choosing a formation that makes us our most efficient going forwards. The balance is in their favour otherwise, due to the standard of our defence even if our attack is better than theirs.

[madras]

Yes but against the best attackers, Pardew is more concerned with covering our defence than choosing a formation that makes us our most efficient going forwards. The balance is in their favour otherwise, due to the standard of our defence even if our attack is better than theirs.

either way it's a 4-5-1 defensivly when out of possession.

[Jayson]

I aint disagreeing with ya. This started because i was saying we didnt leave 4-3-3 due to Demba Ba throwing a strop, its because Pardew thinks it makes us harder to score against. Next season hopefully we'll stay 4-3-3 with a stronger defence anyway.

[madras]

I aint disagreeing with ya. This started because i was saying we didnt leave 4-3-3 due to Demba Ba throwing a strop, its because Pardew thinks it makes us harder to score against. Next season hopefully we'll stay 4-3-3 with a stronger defence anyway.

we seem to have a pretty similar defence regardless of the formation, it's when in possession that the differences appear.

[Jayson]

Just that we play more long ball stuff, so we can keep men behind the ball making us harder to score against

[madras]

Just that we play more long ball stuff, so we can keep men behind the ball making us harder to score against

alternativly we give the ball away more making us easier to score against.

[Jayson]

Nah, id say we've seen it doesnt if you defend well. Not as much as having space exposed by good players anyway.

[madras]

Nah, id say we've seen it doesnt if you defend well. Not as much as having space exposed by good players anyway.

we've already said regardless of whether we play 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 it;s basically a 4-5-1 when out of possession or variation thereof, be it the swansea style with cabaye pushing on and the forwrds dropping deeper as some other form, it's still the some basic format regardless of how we line up when in possession.

[alpal78]

Nah, id say we've seen it doesnt if you defend well. Not as much as having space exposed by good players anyway.

we've already said regardless of whether we play 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 it;s basically a 4-5-1 when out of possession or variation thereof, be it the swansea style with cabaye pushing on and the forwrds dropping deeper as some other form, it's still the some basic format regardless of how we line up when in possession.

 

You're probably right bout the 451 when we don't have the ball but you're missing the transition from attack to defense. Pardew thinks (whether he is right or wrong is another issue) that 442 makes us more solid because when we do loose the ball (through playing hoof ball), it's easy to go 451 (all we need is for one striker to drop into midfield). When we play 433, it takes more time to transition into the 451 especially as we usually have more players committed going forward and strong teams can exploit this time lag. This is not to say that Pardew is right or that I like the 442 (I don't), but that reverting to 442 has nothing to do with Ba which some seems to be implying and are using as a basis to say that we're better off without him.

[madras]

Nah, id say we've seen it doesnt if you defend well. Not as much as having space exposed by good players anyway.

we've already said regardless of whether we play 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 it;s basically a 4-5-1 when out of possession or variation thereof, be it the swansea style with cabaye pushing on and the forwrds dropping deeper as some other form, it's still the some basic format regardless of how we line up when in possession.

 

You're probably right bout the 451 when we don't have the ball but you're missing the transition from attack to defense. Pardew thinks (whether he is right or wrong is another issue) that 442 makes us more solid because when we do loose the ball (through playing hoof ball), it's easy to go 451 (all we need is for one striker to drop into midfield). When we play 433, it takes more time to transition into the 451 especially as we usually have more players committed going forward and strong teams can exploit this time lag. This is not to say that Pardew is right or that I like the 442 (I don't), but that reverting to 442 has nothing to do with Ba which some seems to be implying and are using as a basis to say that we're better off without him.

i dont think hoof ball (which i don't think we played nearly as much as some make out) had any effect defensivly. lets face it when a move breaks down we may have 4 up, could be 5 or even 6 so the idea that in a certain formation it takes longer to get back is moot or did we just lump it up and stand back waiting for our gallant front two to fight it out with the opposition 6 ?

 

defensivle we've tucked into a 451 all season at various depths and with diffring people doing the  'point' work....always think though, ther besdt way to stop therm scoring is if we have the ball and 442 lumping it with our personnel wont help. as it stands we should be a 433 pass, move quick break (WBA away) team, away with a best/shola option at home if need be!!!, then an all over team at home, pressurining and quick on the break.

[alpal78]

Nah, id say we've seen it doesnt if you defend well. Not as much as having space exposed by good players anyway.

we've already said regardless of whether we play 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 it;s basically a 4-5-1 when out of possession or variation thereof, be it the swansea style with cabaye pushing on and the forwrds dropping deeper as some other form, it's still the some basic format regardless of how we line up when in possession.

 

You're probably right bout the 451 when we don't have the ball but you're missing the transition from attack to defense. Pardew thinks (whether he is right or wrong is another issue) that 442 makes us more solid because when we do loose the ball (through playing hoof ball), it's easy to go 451 (all we need is for one striker to drop into midfield). When we play 433, it takes more time to transition into the 451 especially as we usually have more players committed going forward and strong teams can exploit this time lag. This is not to say that Pardew is right or that I like the 442 (I don't), but that reverting to 442 has nothing to do with Ba which some seems to be implying and are using as a basis to say that we're better off without him.

i dont think hoof ball (which i don't think we played nearly as much as some make out) had any effect defensivly. lets face it when a move breaks down we may have 4 up, could be 5 or even 6 so the idea that in a certain formation it takes longer to get back is moot or did we just lump it up and stand back waiting for our gallant front two to fight it out with the opposition 6 ?

 

defensivle we've tucked into a 451 all season at various depths and with diffring people doing the  'point' work....always think though, ther besdt way to stop therm scoring is if we have the ball and 442 lumping it with our personnel wont help. as it stands we should be a 433 pass, move quick break (WBA away) team, away with a best/shola option at home if need be!!!, then an all over team at home, pressurining and quick on the break.

 

Madras, you're still missing the point, I'm with you and yes I don't support 442 or the hoofball tactics for the same reason that you don't. BUT what I am saying is that this what Pardew believes in and that is why he changes to 442 against better teams and that has nothing to do with Ba. Don't argue with me, go convince Pardew.

[Dan Gleebals]

Ba is an easy target for the media with his escape clause.  Combine that with a dip in form since Cisse arrived and they have a story.

 

Ok, he might not like that role particularly and too an extent the jury is out on the best formation still. 

 

I hope he does not go and for me, I don’t think he will.  Looking at the top 4, City would not go for him, nor would manure, if RVP leaves, maybe Arsenal will and if Tottenham conclude the rumoured approaches, they will not either.

 

Personally, I would get him signed on a better deal with no clause and put an end to it. I say that with some caution as I would not necessarily want this at the expense of a new striker that I think we need to cover the two of them for ACN.

 

[KDT]

Demba Ba ‏ @dembabafoot

What a great season we had. I'll miss sjp and the atmosphere for few weeks. Cant wait to step back on the pitch and feel the noise again...

[LesPaul]

HE WANTS TO STAY!!!!

[Hughesy]

I still don't think there are many clubs out there who would take a risk on him to be honest.

[aussiemag]

I still don't think there are many clubs out there who would take a risk on him to be honest.

 

To be honest it could be a blessing that his form dropped towards the end of the season, as it will keep the big clubs away from him.

[STM]

Sounds positive but I won't hold my breath just yet. Largely because I'm a negative bastard.

 

Na it's good stuff, noone ever doubted you Demba