Skirge Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 I think a clear cut wage structure is better than an actual cap, give those on a lower wage something to aim for. NOT performance related structure, that can only lead to bas feelings as there will always be a difference of opinion on how a player has performed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MW Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 dunno why they seem to be taking so long to offer contracts. collocini should have been nailed down an extra couple years as soon as he got the captaincy, we're most likely gunna lose him either next summer or on a free in 2 cos i doubt he'll sign now Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Roger Kint Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 How many PL clubs manage to have wages under ours yet finish above us? The Boltons, Fulhams, Stokes of this world seen to do ok on small wages. A cap is fine as long as you get the right people in, something we havent been great at for years. See M Owen for proof Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stottie Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Haven't got a f***ing clue about Ba or Cabeye but Cab is going to have to pull his balls out the way he is being talked up by some. Suggestions he's going to be better than Nolan are going to be interesting when we check our goal count from midfield. You're right in that goals from midfield needs to be considered but a good few of Nolan's came with him in an advanced role as a kind of second striker off Carroll. I seriously doubt we'd have got the same goals from him in the coming season. Pissi didn't make that fateful statement for nothing! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicago_shearer Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 It doesn't interest me at all, and I think it's genuinely weird how seriously people take speculation about wages, fees, budgets etc. It's as if there is some consolation trophy for being bad at football but fiscally responsible. Play good football and win. That is the one expectation. If Ashley can meet it with free transfers, good for him. He hasnt so far. I don't personally feel any better about a fiscally responsible wage cap or the club's profit margin. Don't buy a top tier football club if you can't afford it, and dont buy any business if you can't afford to assume it's debt. This bullshit about a club being run "the right way" seems to be a polite way of refusing to make Premiership standard investment. Which probably wouldn't bother me, if he found a clever way to get the same results for less money. But very few clubs seem to manage that. Crap about agents fees and operating costs might be interesting if I was shareholder in the company, but I'm a supporter of the club. There is a different metric for success, and you don't win any points for a balanced budget. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Great post Chicago. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pata Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 The moment we lose Colo because of this is already breaking my heart. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UV Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 How many PL clubs manage to have wages under ours yet finish above us? The Boltons, Fulhams, Stokes of this world seen to do ok on small wages. A cap is fine as long as you get the right people in, something we havent been great at for years. See M Owen for proof The answer to your first question is not many, and then not for more than a season or two when their better players or over achieving manager are lured away to clubs who can offer them more. The point is moot anyway as our wages are on a par with all those clubs these days. Our revenues are still a fair bit higher, but they're catching up, or rather we're dropping back into the pack, and will continue to do so as long as paying off Ashley's loan is the main objective and "doing ok" is the footballing ambition. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revolution Number 9 Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 I don't get it, people are never satisfied. This one thing Ashley has done is maybe the only thing I support. It's one of the few good things. The club can't run on borrowed money. So we have to get the wage down. Barton had/has a massive wage we can't afford if we want decent players all over the pitch and in debt. It's just not possible. Do you guys think he's worth 1.5 of ben arfa, or Ba, Cabaye or any of our new top earners? I agree with this, but at the same time there needs to be investment in terms of players brought in. We can't go into every season with a paper-thin squad and shite backup. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishmael Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Pleased to see the majority of voters have shown some sense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishmael Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 It doesn't interest me at all, and I think it's genuinely weird how seriously people take speculation about wages, fees, budgets etc. It's as if there is some consolation trophy for being bad at football but fiscally responsible. Play good football and win. That is the one expectation. If Ashley can meet it with free transfers, good for him. He hasnt so far. I don't personally feel any better about a fiscally responsible wage cap or the club's profit margin. Don't buy a top tier football club if you can't afford it, and dont buy any business if you can't afford to assume it's debt. This bullshit about a club being run "the right way" seems to be a polite way of refusing to make Premiership standard investment. Which probably wouldn't bother me, if he found a clever way to get the same results for less money. But very few clubs seem to manage that. Crap about agents fees and operating costs might be interesting if I was shareholder in the company, but I'm a supporter of the club. There is a different metric for success, and you don't win any points for a balanced budget. So what, we chose to ignore the financial side of the game, except we don't... According to your post we have to, as fans, demand some sort of fantasy 'Premiership standard investment'? Laughable really. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishmael Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Also, comical how you chose to openly state that you're willing to ignore substantial footballing costs in your last paragraph. Again, because we're fans and fans don't have to worry about such real life matters? It all adds up you know... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 It doesn't interest me at all, and I think it's genuinely weird how seriously people take speculation about wages, fees, budgets etc. It's as if there is some consolation trophy for being bad at football but fiscally responsible. Play good football and win. That is the one expectation. If Ashley can meet it with free transfers, good for him. He hasnt so far. I don't personally feel any better about a fiscally responsible wage cap or the club's profit margin. Don't buy a top tier football club if you can't afford it, and dont buy any business if you can't afford to assume it's debt. This bullshit about a club being run "the right way" seems to be a polite way of refusing to make Premiership standard investment. Which probably wouldn't bother me, if he found a clever way to get the same results for less money. But very few clubs seem to manage that. Crap about agents fees and operating costs might be interesting if I was shareholder in the company, but I'm a supporter of the club. There is a different metric for success, and you don't win any points for a balanced budget. Pop onto a Portsmouth or Leeds message board and tell them not to worry about how their club is run. IMO I find it weird how anyone could not be interested in how the club is being run. If you aren't bothered, why not just turn up on a Saturday and enjoy the match, it's pointless to discuss anything beyond that. And why be bothered about how much we're spending? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishmael Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 and yet, Dave will sit there supporting such pig headed posters spouting ignorance. All rather baffling. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 What's your sudden problem with me like? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishmael Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Nothing personal, please don't think that. I just think you're completely wrong about this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colocho Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 What happens when Tiote or Ben Arfa want a wage rise, which would take their wages over the cap? They will be sold? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishmael Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Maybe when they want a rise we will be in a position to offer them it? Obviously, if they feel they have outgrown our wage structure then we'd have to sell them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colocho Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Maybe when they want a rise we will be in a position to offer them it? Obviously, if they feel they have outgrown our wage structure then we'd have to sell them. Can't see the cap increasing anytime soon. So, no matter how important players like Ben Arfa, or Tiote may become, when they want more cash, they'll simply have to get it elsewhere? That's a really flawed concept if you ask me. One of the many reasons I was critical of the club's decision to hand Tiote a six-year deal in February. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 I just realised that original question was about NUFC's wage cap, and not the principle of wage caps in football generally. Therefore I can see how I looked like a dick for suggesting it should be lower! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicago_shearer Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 It doesn't interest me at all, and I think it's genuinely weird how seriously people take speculation about wages, fees, budgets etc. It's as if there is some consolation trophy for being bad at football but fiscally responsible. Play good football and win. That is the one expectation. If Ashley can meet it with free transfers, good for him. He hasnt so far. I don't personally feel any better about a fiscally responsible wage cap or the club's profit margin. Don't buy a top tier football club if you can't afford it, and dont buy any business if you can't afford to assume it's debt. This bullshit about a club being run "the right way" seems to be a polite way of refusing to make Premiership standard investment. Which probably wouldn't bother me, if he found a clever way to get the same results for less money. But very few clubs seem to manage that. Crap about agents fees and operating costs might be interesting if I was shareholder in the company, but I'm a supporter of the club. There is a different metric for success, and you don't win any points for a balanced budget. Pop onto a Portsmouth or Leeds message board and tell them not to worry about how their club is run. IMO I find it weird how anyone could not be interested in how the club is being run. If you aren't bothered, why not just turn up on a Saturday and enjoy the match, it's pointless to discuss anything beyond that. And why be bothered about how much we're spending? Of course I don't want the club to go bankrupt. But Portsmouth and Leeds aren't the only examples you could use. You could have said Man United and Arsenal who must have a billion pounds of debt between them. My point is that it isn't relevant to a supporter. How he structures his business is up to him and I'll eat my words if he's managed to sell our way to improvement, but the only winner in a profitable club is Mike Ashley unless that accompanies better results and better football. Otherwise I don't see any of it. I don't even get to marvel at our balance sheet, because it's his private business. We don't get any additional points for signing a player on 32k a week as opposed to a player on 85k a week. If Tiote's transfer fee had been double, would he be less enjoyable as a player? If Alan Shearer had been a free transfer instead of the most expensive player of his day, would his performances have been more satisfying because someone you don't know paid less? Tabloid gossip about the wage bill and a "well run club" (because well run clubs don't carry debt...) just seems like a very poor alternative to having a successful club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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