ponsaelius Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Torres was a great goalscorer but certainly isn't and never has been a wonderful footballer. Not having that like. Up until the last World Cup Torres was a fucking brilliant footballer. One of the best strikers in the world in his first 3 seasons at Liverpool and wasn't just because of goalscoring. Even at Atletico he was never prolific infront of goal, but his ability and all round play was there for all to see. His allround game has never been great. He's terrible with his back to goal, never created for others and in Spain he was routinely criticised for poor decision making. He was skillful, powerful and a phenomenal front to goal finisher (for 2 seasons) at Liverpool but to say he was a brilliant allround player is just not true. Now he's unable to be effective at what he used to do he looks like a fish out of water trying to drop deep and link up play. He was a brilliant footballer in the sense that he was a world class goalscorer for 2 years (it's difficult to argue he isn't when he's scoring 30 goals a season) but he's never been an allround player. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuy_O Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Rafa Benitez leaving played a part in him leaving aswell I reckon, seemed to be a strong connection between player and manager. I still think he'd have benefited from just holding on till the summer, but he had his reasons obviously. To conclude then, I still think Torres is a good player, not finished, probably at the wrong club, and I almost certainly would not swap Cisse for him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Torres was a great goalscorer but certainly isn't and never has been a wonderful footballer. Not having that like. Up until the last World Cup Torres was a fucking brilliant footballer. One of the best strikers in the world in his first 3 seasons at Liverpool and wasn't just because of goalscoring. Even at Atletico he was never prolific infront of goal, but his ability and all round play was there for all to see. Yeah, there's some extreme pieces of revisionism going on here. The only revisionism is taking a small sample as his definitive level. Was never prolific in Spain, has been patchy for the national team his whole career - a couple of years top class - now it's been over two years of absolute rubbish. This is a 28 year old who's been playing top level football for a decade, but been top class for less than half of it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Shaun Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 http://i.imgur.com/dCSRU.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 I'd rather have a retired Dean Ashton up front for us than Torres. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuy_O Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 I thought he was pretty good at Atletico. Newly promoted at the time (I think?), captain , young man with a decent goal return. Its only really been since he moved to London that his club career has gone downhill...... imo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Fuck it, I'd rather have Colins John than Torres. Cronky is usually bang on the money regarding his opinions, I can only hope the heat has got to him today... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Recoba Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Would you swap Coloccini for Rio Ferdinand? I would. That's another transfer rumour in the press worth talking about. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beren Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Yeah, there's some extreme pieces of revisionism going on here. I'm not sure how Torres got derailed, but there were injury problems and then IIRC he was fed up with the political situation at Anfield, felt the club was going nowhere, and wanted out. I don't think he was giving his all in that final season, as if to hasten a move, much to his discredit. Trouble is, it's not so easy to then instantly turn on your best form like you were flicking a switch. The move to Chelsea was problematic from the start, because he and Drogba were never going to be an ideal combination, and Drogba was a difficult hombre to shift. As it is, he's walking out of Stamford Bridge, head held high, at the time of his choosing. I gather Torres is a very shy character who has difficulty in imposing himself. I think he needs support and he sank without trace in the Chelsea dressing room. It's interesting that he's now found his voice, like some confidence has returned. I wouldn't be surprised if he has a really good Euro and attracts some big money interest. My understanding was that Spain had won World Cup and Euros medals without him having hardly played any football, so he wanted to win play and win trophies at club level - which he felt he couldn't do with Liverpool (rightly enough). That seems congruous with his latest quotes, where he's happy to have played some part in the CL triumph (and I think he did very well when he came on FWIW) but wants to be a starter going forward. Seems a little unfair to suggest he doesn't create for others btw - he can, and does. He can use the channels pretty well, and his delivery is Shearer-esque at times. His hold-up player over the course of the season has been poor (there's no getting away from that) but it had definitely improved towards the end of the season. Think he'll stay with Chelsea and continue on the path to proving his doubters wrong personally. Time will tell. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beren Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Back on track: which of our targets could see their value inflate due to the Euros? Would be good to get those wrapped up so we're not priced out on the back of a combination of one big tournament and lazy scouts Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Any coincidence that Torres has been playing regularly at the top level since his teens, whereas Drogba didn't make it to the top till relatively late on and is still putting in top drawer performances and hasn't really lost any of his physical attributes despite being in his 30s? Not really..... the reason Torres decline is so drastic because he relied almost exclusively on his pace and ability to get in behind opposition defences which is why he was so effective in this league.... That was my point though, he's lost his pace when he's supposedly at the peak age for a footballer, yet this hasn't happened to Drogba like it has Torres. Whereas Torres despite being younger than Drogba has been playing at a higher level for longer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Desperate for Nut to tell us who we're linked with in France now, you've all ruined this thread, helmets. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Yeah, there's some extreme pieces of revisionism going on here. I'm not sure how Torres got derailed, but there were injury problems and then IIRC he was fed up with the political situation at Anfield, felt the club was going nowhere, and wanted out. I don't think he was giving his all in that final season, as if to hasten a move, much to his discredit. Trouble is, it's not so easy to then instantly turn on your best form like you were flicking a switch. The move to Chelsea was problematic from the start, because he and Drogba were never going to be an ideal combination, and Drogba was a difficult hombre to shift. As it is, he's walking out of Stamford Bridge, head held high, at the time of his choosing. I gather Torres is a very shy character who has difficulty in imposing himself. I think he needs support and he sank without trace in the Chelsea dressing room. It's interesting that he's now found his voice, like some confidence has returned. I wouldn't be surprised if he has a really good Euro and attracts some big money interest. My understanding was that Spain had won World Cup and Euros medals without him having hardly played any football, so he wanted to win play and win trophies at club level - which he felt he couldn't do with Liverpool (rightly enough). That seems congruous with his latest quotes, where he's happy to have played some part in the CL triumph (and I think he did very well when he came on FWIW) but wants to be a starter going forward. Seems a little unfair to suggest he doesn't create for others btw - he can, and does. He can use the channels pretty well, and his delivery is Shearer-esque at times. His hold-up player over the course of the season has been poor (there's no getting away from that) but it had definitely improved towards the end of the season. Think he'll stay with Chelsea and continue on the path to proving his doubters wrong personally. Time will tell. His record in terms of creating for others, with direct assists, is poor throughout his entire career. Rubbish in fact. Are you basing his Shearer-esque crossing on his one for Mata's volley, because genuinely apart from that (which the press spent about a week wanking over) I can't remember him ever doing it well in his whole time in England. He's started creating paradoxically more since he went to Chelsea simply because he spends more time deeper or out wide due to his natural game deserting him. He's not very good at it though, never has been. Nor has he ever been good back to goal. Back on track: which of our targets could see their value inflate due to the Euros? Would be good to get those wrapped up so we're not priced out on the back of a combination of one big tournament and lazy scouts Debuchy and Yanga-Mbiwa out of those linked to. Pieters is out injured and Douglas isn't involved in the Dutch set-up yet. Can't think of anybody else. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Desperate for Nut to tell us who we're linked with in France now, you've all ruined this thread, helmets. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Desperate for Nut to tell us who we're linked with in France now, you've all ruined this thread, helmets. Blame Cronky and the rest of the Torres fanboys who can't deal with their player being crap. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdckelly Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 are there any actual rumours atm, been oddly quiet on that front so far Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 are there any actual rumours atm, been oddly quiet on that front so far That means things are happening. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Think we signed 3 players when I was on holiday last year so you will need to wait a couple of weeks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMc Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Keeps getting said that we will do little of any significance until after the euros Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Aye. Then again there was also a quote from Pardew saying he would like to do business before the Euros. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beren Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Yeah, there's some extreme pieces of revisionism going on here. I'm not sure how Torres got derailed, but there were injury problems and then IIRC he was fed up with the political situation at Anfield, felt the club was going nowhere, and wanted out. I don't think he was giving his all in that final season, as if to hasten a move, much to his discredit. Trouble is, it's not so easy to then instantly turn on your best form like you were flicking a switch. The move to Chelsea was problematic from the start, because he and Drogba were never going to be an ideal combination, and Drogba was a difficult hombre to shift. As it is, he's walking out of Stamford Bridge, head held high, at the time of his choosing. I gather Torres is a very shy character who has difficulty in imposing himself. I think he needs support and he sank without trace in the Chelsea dressing room. It's interesting that he's now found his voice, like some confidence has returned. I wouldn't be surprised if he has a really good Euro and attracts some big money interest. My understanding was that Spain had won World Cup and Euros medals without him having hardly played any football, so he wanted to win play and win trophies at club level - which he felt he couldn't do with Liverpool (rightly enough). That seems congruous with his latest quotes, where he's happy to have played some part in the CL triumph (and I think he did very well when he came on FWIW) but wants to be a starter going forward. Seems a little unfair to suggest he doesn't create for others btw - he can, and does. He can use the channels pretty well, and his delivery is Shearer-esque at times. His hold-up player over the course of the season has been poor (there's no getting away from that) but it had definitely improved towards the end of the season. Think he'll stay with Chelsea and continue on the path to proving his doubters wrong personally. Time will tell. His record in terms of creating for others, with direct assists, is poor throughout his entire career. Rubbish in fact. Are you basing his Shearer-esque crossing on his one for Mata's volley, because genuinely apart from that (which the press spent about a week wanking over) I can't remember him ever doing it well in his whole time in England. He's started creating paradoxically more since he went to Chelsea simply because he spends more time deeper or out wide due to his natural game deserting him. He's not very good at it though, never has been. Nor has he ever been good back to goal. No, he's put in a lot of good balls. There was a really nice one in the CL final actually (which came to nothing) from the right flank. They've not been converted as spectacularly as Mata's volley though, so little wonder they haven't picked up as much attention. Without his fleet of foot, he's not very good with his back to goal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 I dont expect things to pick up yet, the window isnt even open yet for one things will pick up across the board not just for us when it does.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belfast Mags Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Question? What has all this Torres talk got to do with our transfer rumours again? I'm lost here Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Question? What has all this Torres talk got to do with our transfer rumours again? I'm lost here Cronky said if he was offered the chance he'd swap Cisse for Torres. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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