Dokko Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Unless we get an offer too good to turn down for Obertan I'd keep him, he'd be effective in Europe and cup games while making a decent sub coming on against tired legs. If he's happy in that role and the offer isn't great I don't see the point in selling him, don't forget we sold Routledge and replaced him with someone with the exact same faults. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Tomorrow's Journal carries quotes from Pardew praising Bigi and seemingly saying signings like that are the way forward. Not sure it has any real significance like. If Bigi turns out to be the business (and the reports are looking OK) then I'd say that kind of signing would indeed be the way forward, insofar as it was a cheap buy, you get to mould the player from a young age and they can be bedded into the first team at their own pace. I suspect that'll ultimately be the model for us going forward (interesting topic actually). At the minute we are building (have mostly built) a very strong first eleven and have added some promising back up this summer. Not all are going to make it (as is the case in football in general) but I think with the advent of a much more switched on scouting system we'll find more of these players will make the grade than in previous years. The future of football in the model we "appear" to be working towards is, youth, youth, youth. Bring in young, talented kids and school them yourself. It'll take years to get right and we've balled up in the Academy thing, but I really see this as the way forward both in a football and business sense. Thoughts? We do seem to be heading back to the days of SBR with lots of promising youngsters being signed (Milner, Ambrose, Bellamy, Bramble, Jenas, N'Zogbia, attempting to sign Bent etc..). We (fans) seem to be more scared to give these players a chance now than we were then (from memory). I know some of those mentioned in the SBR days were pretty big money signings so it is a little different but still has a familiar feel with what we are doing now. From that list I would say all players were useful to us, I have no doubt missed off a number of howlers but it would be nice/exciting to turn back to those days. Although many/all might not be ready to be thrown in yet the likes of Vuckic, Tavernier, Bigi, Good (based on the comments during the radio interview), Abeid, Sammy and Ferguson all interest me a lot. I am a bit of a footballing paedo mind, always get excited by the youth, just call me Wenger. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
juniatmoko Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Even Sammy or Ferguson on pitch look better than Obertan that's how bad he is.... sell him ASAP! while got chance Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketsbaia Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Once we buy 3 or 4 players, I'm all for selling Obertan. But definitely not until then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 In general we sell before we buy, I'd be happy for Obertan to go like, get some money while we can. I genuinely think he's absolutely shite and I'm not even sure he'd need to be replaced. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanSkÃrare Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 With Marveaux back I don't think we'll miss Obertan. Marv, Hatem, Sammy and Jonas will do the business on the wings, even Ryan Taylor and Shane Ferguson can step in if needed. I'd definately sell him if we can get close to the £3m we paid for him. Hopefully selling him means there is something incoming just round the corner. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Obertan's one player we can sell who wouldn't need replacing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_69 Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Tomorrow's Journal carries quotes from Pardew praising Bigi and seemingly saying signings like that are the way forward. Not sure it has any real significance like. If Bigi turns out to be the business (and the reports are looking OK) then I'd say that kind of signing would indeed be the way forward, insofar as it was a cheap buy, you get to mould the player from a young age and they can be bedded into the first team at their own pace. I suspect that'll ultimately be the model for us going forward (interesting topic actually). At the minute we are building (have mostly built) a very strong first eleven and have added some promising back up this summer. Not all are going to make it (as is the case in football in general) but I think with the advent of a much more switched on scouting system we'll find more of these players will make the grade than in previous years. The future of football in the model we "appear" to be working towards is, youth, youth, youth. Bring in young, talented kids and school them yourself. It'll take years to get right and we've balled up in the Academy thing, but I really see this as the way forward both in a football and business sense. Thoughts? We do seem to be heading back to the days of SBR with lots of promising youngsters being signed (Milner, Ambrose, Bellamy, Bramble, Jenas, N'Zogbia, attempting to sign Bent etc..). We (fans) seem to be more scared to give these players a chance now than we were then (from memory). I know some of those mentioned in the SBR days were pretty big money signings so it is a little different but still has a familiar feel with what we are doing now. From that list I would say all players were useful to us, I have no doubt missed off a number of howlers but it would be nice/exciting to turn back to those days. Although many/all might not be ready to be thrown in yet the likes of Vuckic, Tavernier, Bigi, Good (based on the comments during the radio interview), Abeid, Sammy and Ferguson all interest me a lot. I am a bit of a footballing paedo mind, always get excited by the youth, just call me Wenger. The difference now is that we seem to be doing our homework with regards to players' temperaments. Under SBR we signed a lot of very talented wankers, which ultimately resulted in chaos. With Obertan I guess it has to come down to whether the coaches think he still has room to learn and develop. Last season's performances were not good enough by a long shot but if we think we can improve him then he's worth keeping. The fact that Fergy was prepared to let him go at the age of 22 doesn't bode well though - he's generally a pretty good judge of a player's potential Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohmelads Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Obertan relies too much on his physical attributes to mask poor technique and decision making. He's more an athlete than a Premier League footballer. His pace can be a weapon off the bench against tired legs but there are loads of similar wingers out there, such as Routledge as someone already mentioned. These kinds of players have a good game once in a blue moon and you think they have turned a corner, only for them to return to form. I think if we're serious about challenging top 6 again we'd be better to cut our losses but only if we can find a better replacement. He would need to be replaced because with Marveaux's injury record and Jonas's lack of goals/assists we could do with another winger. If anything happens to Ben Arfa we could run into problems with creativity. So for that reason I would try and find a better winger than Obertan to give us that extra option. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Disagree about Obertan, his technique is pretty good. I think his problems are mainly mental - basically confidence related. He thinks too much IMO, and doesn't manage to get 'in the zone' where things happen instinctively. He often slows down and tries to trick his man when he should burst into space etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Five o Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Disagree about Obertan, his technique is pretty good. I think his problems are mainly mental - basically confidence related. He thinks too much IMO, and doesn't manage to get 'in the zone' where things happen instinctively. He often slows down and tries to trick his man when he should burst into space etc. Spot on, my thoughts exactly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Also, 23 is no age. Yes, many players are class by his age, but others are also yet to mature. Hopefully he's one of the latter, he hasn't really played much football either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
midds Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 I think Obertan could be very useful in the European games this season when he might get a bit more time and space than he does in league games. He's more use to us than an extra couple of million in the bank. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Swift Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Yup. Unless we're getting close to 5m for him then he'll be useful as a squad player. You don't want to play Ben Arfa against shit teams in the Europa League. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Newcastle United play down link with Yanga-Mbiwa ChronicleLive - 41 minutes ago Newcastle United play down link with Yanga-Mbiwa. by Lee Ryder ... NEWCASTLE United were today cool about talk linking them with Mapou Yanga-Mbiwa. http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/newcastle-united/nufc-news/2012/08/08/newcastle-united-play-down-link-with-yanga-mbiwa-72703-31573507/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokko Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Disagree about Obertan, his technique is pretty good. I think his problems are mainly mental - basically confidence related. He thinks too much IMO, and doesn't manage to get 'in the zone' where things happen instinctively. He often slows down and tries to trick his man when he should burst into space etc. He lacks confidence but it's based completely on his decision making on the pitch. He needs to start making the right decisions and if he does confidence will come in himself, us and the players around him. Confidence is a by-product coming off his poor decision making, I don't know if he can change. For me he's a bit like Titus bramble, perfect physically for his position, good technique for his position and now and then has a good game, but doesn't learn, adapt or improve his game from a tactical point of view therefore never realises his potential. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanSkÃrare Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Voetbal International saying us and CSKA Moscow are going for Ola Toivonen. No thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Voetbal International saying us and CSKA Moscow are going for Ola Toivonen. No thanks. Why? would be a decent 3rd striker no? Not like we are looking for him to start every game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohmelads Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Disagree about Obertan, his technique is pretty good. I think his problems are mainly mental - basically confidence related. He thinks too much IMO, and doesn't manage to get 'in the zone' where things happen instinctively. He often slows down and tries to trick his man when he should burst into space etc. He lacks confidence but it's based completely on his decision making on the pitch. He needs to start making the right decisions and if he does confidence will come in himself, us and the players around him. Confidence is a by-product coming off his poor decision making, I don't know if he can change. For me he's a bit like Titus bramble, perfect physically for his position, good technique for his position and now and then has a good game, but doesn't learn, adapt or improve his game from a tactical point of view therefore never realises his potential. Yes this is his biggest problem. Decision making and awareness is a huge part of football, it's instinctive and while you improve with regular games, he tends to make the wrong decisions most of the time. He'll pass it too early or release it too late, he'll run into blind alleys then stop and try to beat his man from a standing position. At 23 he is still learning but he shouldn't be making such basic errors. Regular football will sharpen his game but do we really want to give him that? Having said all that, we shouldn't sell without a better replacement lined up. He can run with or without the ball at pace which can cause problems for teams and his workrate is also good. There is no point banking a couple million with no replacement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ads Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Disagree about selling Obertan for £3m. Such a frustrating player but obviously a very talented one who seems to suffer from a huge lack of confidence. I just think rather than sprinting past an opponent and then turning back and laying it off for whoever is behind him, he needs to be attacking the full back, making them back off or attempt a challenge because he's quick enough to beat most defenders to a knock past. He took his goal well last night, shifted it and ran onto it and fired it across the keeper, decent finish and hopefully a sign of things to come. Having said that, I'd be fucking mortified if he got many starts like... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Flash Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 obviously a very talented one He isn't. Take away his speed/athleticism and he's barely even a footballer. Happens a lot these days. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest icemanblue Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Aye, made it all the way to the very top tier of football on pace alone. No hint of talent of footballing technique. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Flash Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Aye, made it all the way to the very top tier of football on pace alone. No hint of talent of footballing technique. "made it all the way to the very top tier of football" aye. He is, at most, average. And that's largely due to his pace. Anything I've seen which suggests otherwise is often followed up by 5 examples of me being right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
juniatmoko Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 If we cant convert Obertan into a striker we might as well as selling him.. he has no any other attribute except pace for being a winger or midfielder (no vision, no trickery. lack of confidence, less technique, lack of guile & determination, less intelligence for being in central line of the pitch).... (think he is canny as 4th choice striker tho.. got good shot plus speed to beat offside trap) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliottman Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 If we cant convert Obertan into a striker we might as well as selling him.. he has no any other attribute except pace for being a winger or midfielder (no vision, no trickery. lack of confidence, less technique, lack of guile & determination, less intelligence for being in central line of the pitch).... (think he is canny as 4th choice striker tho.. got good shot plus speed to beat offside trap) He blantantly does have trickery, he just doesnt know how to use it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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