Skirge Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Save arguments pushes Demba and Cisse a little wider meaning they can drift wide or drift in depending on what side play is building but also can play facing goal instead of with their backs to it. ------Perch----------Anita --------------Marv -----Cisse------------Demba----- Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 look i believe for what its worth (f*** all) that Ba is playing up top simply because of Pardew's short sighted reliance on cheap stats. He see Cisse not scoring much, off form, therefore he can't play upfront on his own. Thus no Ba out on the left, Ba must play upfront. It's that simple, I don't believe he scared of Ba and his agent throwing another strop. He's scared the goals will dry up if Ba is not playing upfront. Doesn't explain why we played 2 up front for most of the season until the last few games. You can't be this stupid. it explains perfectly why he played them both uptop, becuase he's scared of losing the goal threat of Ba. WBA (A) 3-1 Liverpool (H) 2-0 Swansea (A) 2-0 Bolton (H) 2-0 Stoke (H) 3-0 Playing 433 (or a variation on it) with Cisse central and Ba on the left - 15 points, 12 goals scored, 1 goal conceded. I doubt Pardew cares who scores the goals. If you think Ba hasn't had a word and that hasn't influenced Pardew then you're... well you're very naive, ironically enough. i think you are misunderstanding what im saying, i dont doubt Ba has made his displeasure about playing out wide, im saying its up to pardew to put him out wide if he wants to., its down to him. A good manager can do that. Well clearly he has a choice, however the choices he's making are very clearly based on the wishes of one player. They're both to blame. However, your original post says that we're only playing this way due to Pardew's tactical cluelessness and it's nothing to do with a fear of upsetting Ba, so you're basically completely changing your story and accusing me of not understanding your point now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimburst Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 They have both played the majority of this season in the centre and Cisse has looked toothless (I have to stress I love Cisse, feel like I am putting him down just to defend Ba but I really do like him). I don't think Cisse would have taken his chances if we lined up like last season, he is just going through a dip in form and thankfully we didn't move Ba out wide where he looked just as poor in front of goal because we would be REALLY struggling if we had. Cisse's never played in a 442, to be fair. He looks far less suited to it than Ba, maybe because Ba is a better player? Who knows. "thankfully we didn't move Ba out wide where he looked just as poor in front of goal" I don't get this, you're agreeing we're treating Cisse poorly? Like I said, we're not playing well offensively, maybe we could change it up a little see if we can help our world class, 10 million pound signing instead of stringing him out on the wing. I didn't say we were treating Cisse poorly I said he was playing poorly, we aren't scoring many and thankfully we haven't marginalised the only player who currently looks capable of scoring his fair share of goals. Ah man, I can't see how you can't see we're just totally fucking Cisse just so Ba can score goals. Cisse looks shit because he's on the wing. How will he ever prove he's good enough to play up front if he never gets to do so? I want both of them in the team playing well, we'll not get that without changing something, namely the formation or the players in that formation. Cisse shouldn't be on the right, he's god awful there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 They have both played the majority of this season in the centre and Cisse has looked toothless (I have to stress I love Cisse, feel like I am putting him down just to defend Ba but I really do like him). I don't think Cisse would have taken his chances if we lined up like last season, he is just going through a dip in form and thankfully we didn't move Ba out wide where he looked just as poor in front of goal because we would be REALLY struggling if we had. Cisse's never played in a 442, to be fair. He looks far less suited to it than Ba, maybe because Ba is a better player? Who knows. "thankfully we didn't move Ba out wide where he looked just as poor in front of goal" I don't get this, you're agreeing we're treating Cisse poorly? Like I said, we're not playing well offensively, maybe we could change it up a little see if we can help our world class, 10 million pound signing instead of stringing him out on the wing. I didn't say we were treating Cisse poorly I said he was playing poorly, we aren't scoring many and thankfully we haven't marginalised the only player who currently looks capable of scoring his fair share of goals. Ah man, I can't see how you can't see we're just totally fucking Cisse just so Ba can score goals. Cisse looks shit because he's on the wing. How will he ever prove he's good enough to play up front if he never gets to do so? I want both of them in the team playing well, we'll not get that without changing something, namely the formation or the players in that formation. Cisse shouldn't be on the right, he's god awful there. We are 18 games into the season, why are people talking like Cisse has played the whole season on the wing? He has played a very small percentage there after struggling to score in his natural position. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hatem garrincha Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 WBA (A) 3-1 Liverpool (H) 2-0 Swansea (A) 2-0 Bolton (H) 2-0 Stoke (H) 3-0 Thanks for the reminder. This run of games is the only period I saw some football from Nufc under Pardew. The best proof of the possibility to play well and positively and to win games. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 They have both played the majority of this season in the centre and Cisse has looked toothless (I have to stress I love Cisse, feel like I am putting him down just to defend Ba but I really do like him). I don't think Cisse would have taken his chances if we lined up like last season, he is just going through a dip in form and thankfully we didn't move Ba out wide where he looked just as poor in front of goal because we would be REALLY struggling if we had. Cisse's never played in a 442, to be fair. He looks far less suited to it than Ba, maybe because Ba is a better player? Who knows. "thankfully we didn't move Ba out wide where he looked just as poor in front of goal" I don't get this, you're agreeing we're treating Cisse poorly? Like I said, we're not playing well offensively, maybe we could change it up a little see if we can help our world class, 10 million pound signing instead of stringing him out on the wing. I didn't say we were treating Cisse poorly I said he was playing poorly, we aren't scoring many and thankfully we haven't marginalised the only player who currently looks capable of scoring his fair share of goals. At the end of the day moving one of them out wide if going to limit their chances, I would rather it be the one who isn't scoring than the one who is. I would rather it be the one who made his name playing there and scoring loads of goals in that position in Germany and at West Ham rather than the one who has never played there and looks totally unsuited to it, despite his best efforts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 They have both played the majority of this season in the centre and Cisse has looked toothless (I have to stress I love Cisse, feel like I am putting him down just to defend Ba but I really do like him). I don't think Cisse would have taken his chances if we lined up like last season, he is just going through a dip in form and thankfully we didn't move Ba out wide where he looked just as poor in front of goal because we would be REALLY struggling if we had. Cisse's never played in a 442, to be fair. He looks far less suited to it than Ba, maybe because Ba is a better player? Who knows. "thankfully we didn't move Ba out wide where he looked just as poor in front of goal" I don't get this, you're agreeing we're treating Cisse poorly? Like I said, we're not playing well offensively, maybe we could change it up a little see if we can help our world class, 10 million pound signing instead of stringing him out on the wing. I didn't say we were treating Cisse poorly I said he was playing poorly, we aren't scoring many and thankfully we haven't marginalised the only player who currently looks capable of scoring his fair share of goals. Ah man, I can't see how you can't see we're just totally fucking Cisse just so Ba can score goals. Cisse looks shit because he's on the wing. How will he ever prove he's good enough to play up front if he never gets to do so? I want both of them in the team playing well, we'll not get that without changing something, namely the formation or the players in that formation. Cisse shouldn't be on the right, he's god awful there. We are 18 games into the season, why are people talking like Cisse has played the whole season on the wing? He has played a very small percentage there after struggling to score in his natural position. We tend to hoof the ball constantly when we play 442, don't ask me why but we just do. Not saying that this service is entirely suitable for Ba either but it's totally unsuitable for Cisse and Ba is more likely to create something for himself. Suppose what I'm getting at is that Cisse hasn't had the chance to play central in a front 3, a position in which he excelled last season. FWIW I don't think Cisse's been as bad on the wing as is being made out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlelunchbox Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 look i believe for what its worth (f*** all) that Ba is playing up top simply because of Pardew's short sighted reliance on cheap stats. He see Cisse not scoring much, off form, therefore he can't play upfront on his own. Thus no Ba out on the left, Ba must play upfront. It's that simple, I don't believe he scared of Ba and his agent throwing another strop. He's scared the goals will dry up if Ba is not playing upfront. Doesn't explain why we played 2 up front for most of the season until the last few games. You can't be this stupid. it explains perfectly why he played them both uptop, becuase he's scared of losing the goal threat of Ba. WBA (A) 3-1 Liverpool (H) 2-0 Swansea (A) 2-0 Bolton (H) 2-0 Stoke (H) 3-0 Playing 433 (or a variation on it) with Cisse central and Ba on the left - 15 points, 12 goals scored, 1 goal conceded. I doubt Pardew cares who scores the goals. If you think Ba hasn't had a word and that hasn't influenced Pardew then you're... well you're very naive, ironically enough. i think you are misunderstanding what im saying, i dont doubt Ba has made his displeasure about playing out wide, im saying its up to pardew to put him out wide if he wants to., its down to him. A good manager can do that. Well clearly he has a choice, however the choices he's making are very clearly based on the wishes of one player. They're both to blame. However, your original post says that we're only playing this way due to Pardew's tactical cluelessness and it's nothing to do with a fear of upsetting Ba, so you're basically completely changing your story and accusing me of not understanding your point now. no no, im saying is even if Ba and Pardew has some type of agreement to play him out top, Pardew will break it at some point and not honor that. He would not hesitate to to play Ba outwide once his goals dries up. I am certain of that. Once Ba stop scoring in a succession of games Ba will be flung out on the wings when Pardew decides to play 4-5-1 / 4-3-3 , just like he did to Cisse. Im saying here is this situation is less about player power and more about the ineptitude of the manager. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 They have both played the majority of this season in the centre and Cisse has looked toothless (I have to stress I love Cisse, feel like I am putting him down just to defend Ba but I really do like him). I don't think Cisse would have taken his chances if we lined up like last season, he is just going through a dip in form and thankfully we didn't move Ba out wide where he looked just as poor in front of goal because we would be REALLY struggling if we had. Cisse's never played in a 442, to be fair. He looks far less suited to it than Ba, maybe because Ba is a better player? Who knows. "thankfully we didn't move Ba out wide where he looked just as poor in front of goal" I don't get this, you're agreeing we're treating Cisse poorly? Like I said, we're not playing well offensively, maybe we could change it up a little see if we can help our world class, 10 million pound signing instead of stringing him out on the wing. I didn't say we were treating Cisse poorly I said he was playing poorly, we aren't scoring many and thankfully we haven't marginalised the only player who currently looks capable of scoring his fair share of goals. At the end of the day moving one of them out wide if going to limit their chances, I would rather it be the one who isn't scoring than the one who is. I would rather it be the one who made his name playing there and scoring loads of goals in that position in Germany and at West Ham. Can't say I saw much of Ba before he came to England but there must be a reason he 'kicked off' about playing central. The reason normally spouted is he likes the glory of scoring goals but if he has played the majority of his career in that position it's strange that he wants to move central given he has such a good career record Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimburst Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Whey I just want to see Cisse back to his best Jon, what do you have against that Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 They have both played the majority of this season in the centre and Cisse has looked toothless (I have to stress I love Cisse, feel like I am putting him down just to defend Ba but I really do like him). I don't think Cisse would have taken his chances if we lined up like last season, he is just going through a dip in form and thankfully we didn't move Ba out wide where he looked just as poor in front of goal because we would be REALLY struggling if we had. Cisse's never played in a 442, to be fair. He looks far less suited to it than Ba, maybe because Ba is a better player? Who knows. "thankfully we didn't move Ba out wide where he looked just as poor in front of goal" I don't get this, you're agreeing we're treating Cisse poorly? Like I said, we're not playing well offensively, maybe we could change it up a little see if we can help our world class, 10 million pound signing instead of stringing him out on the wing. I didn't say we were treating Cisse poorly I said he was playing poorly, we aren't scoring many and thankfully we haven't marginalised the only player who currently looks capable of scoring his fair share of goals. Ah man, I can't see how you can't see we're just totally fucking Cisse just so Ba can score goals. Cisse looks shit because he's on the wing. How will he ever prove he's good enough to play up front if he never gets to do so? I want both of them in the team playing well, we'll not get that without changing something, namely the formation or the players in that formation. Cisse shouldn't be on the right, he's god awful there. We are 18 games into the season, why are people talking like Cisse has played the whole season on the wing? He has played a very small percentage there after struggling to score in his natural position. We tend to hoof the ball constantly when we play 442, don't ask me why but we just do. Not saying that this service is entirely suitable for Ba either but it's totally unsuitable for Cisse and Ba is more likely to create something for himself. Suppose what I'm getting at is that Cisse hasn't had the chance to play central in a front 3, a position in which he excelled last season. FWIW I don't think Cisse's been as bad on the wing as is being made out. appreciate good reasoning rather than petty insults (not directed at you at all btw, just nice to read replies that make me think), I am just not confident to move our only player scoring on a consistent basis on the hope someone else will find their form. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 They have both played the majority of this season in the centre and Cisse has looked toothless (I have to stress I love Cisse, feel like I am putting him down just to defend Ba but I really do like him). I don't think Cisse would have taken his chances if we lined up like last season, he is just going through a dip in form and thankfully we didn't move Ba out wide where he looked just as poor in front of goal because we would be REALLY struggling if we had. Cisse's never played in a 442, to be fair. He looks far less suited to it than Ba, maybe because Ba is a better player? Who knows. "thankfully we didn't move Ba out wide where he looked just as poor in front of goal" I don't get this, you're agreeing we're treating Cisse poorly? Like I said, we're not playing well offensively, maybe we could change it up a little see if we can help our world class, 10 million pound signing instead of stringing him out on the wing. I didn't say we were treating Cisse poorly I said he was playing poorly, we aren't scoring many and thankfully we haven't marginalised the only player who currently looks capable of scoring his fair share of goals. At the end of the day moving one of them out wide if going to limit their chances, I would rather it be the one who isn't scoring than the one who is. I would rather it be the one who made his name playing there and scoring loads of goals in that position in Germany and at West Ham. Can't say I saw much of Ba before he came to England but there must be a reason he 'kicked off' about playing central. The reason normally spouted is he likes the glory of scoring goals but if he has played the majority of his career in that position it's strange that he wants to move central given he has such a good career record I think it came after we signed Cisse who banged in loads from that central role whilst Ba scored non once he was pushed left I however think this was more down to an ACON hangover and not where he was played. Ba is a very talented player and not a one trick pony, he could play left of a front three and easily be a superb performer but I don't think he feels he can do it there after what went on last season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimburst Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 They have both played the majority of this season in the centre and Cisse has looked toothless (I have to stress I love Cisse, feel like I am putting him down just to defend Ba but I really do like him). I don't think Cisse would have taken his chances if we lined up like last season, he is just going through a dip in form and thankfully we didn't move Ba out wide where he looked just as poor in front of goal because we would be REALLY struggling if we had. Cisse's never played in a 442, to be fair. He looks far less suited to it than Ba, maybe because Ba is a better player? Who knows. "thankfully we didn't move Ba out wide where he looked just as poor in front of goal" I don't get this, you're agreeing we're treating Cisse poorly? Like I said, we're not playing well offensively, maybe we could change it up a little see if we can help our world class, 10 million pound signing instead of stringing him out on the wing. I didn't say we were treating Cisse poorly I said he was playing poorly, we aren't scoring many and thankfully we haven't marginalised the only player who currently looks capable of scoring his fair share of goals. Ah man, I can't see how you can't see we're just totally fucking Cisse just so Ba can score goals. Cisse looks shit because he's on the wing. How will he ever prove he's good enough to play up front if he never gets to do so? I want both of them in the team playing well, we'll not get that without changing something, namely the formation or the players in that formation. Cisse shouldn't be on the right, he's god awful there. We are 18 games into the season, why are people talking like Cisse has played the whole season on the wing? He has played a very small percentage there after struggling to score in his natural position. We tend to hoof the ball constantly when we play 442, don't ask me why but we just do. Not saying that this service is entirely suitable for Ba either but it's totally unsuitable for Cisse and Ba is more likely to create something for himself. Suppose what I'm getting at is that Cisse hasn't had the chance to play central in a front 3, a position in which he excelled last season. FWIW I don't think Cisse's been as bad on the wing as is being made out. appreciate good reasoning rather than petty insults (not directed at you at all btw, just nice to read replies that make me think), I am just not confident to move our only player scoring on a consistent basis on the hope someone else will find their form. Fuck you then, man. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Fuck you then, man. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeletor Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 They have both played the majority of this season in the centre and Cisse has looked toothless (I have to stress I love Cisse, feel like I am putting him down just to defend Ba but I really do like him). I don't think Cisse would have taken his chances if we lined up like last season, he is just going through a dip in form and thankfully we didn't move Ba out wide where he looked just as poor in front of goal because we would be REALLY struggling if we had. Cisse's never played in a 442, to be fair. He looks far less suited to it than Ba, maybe because Ba is a better player? Who knows. "thankfully we didn't move Ba out wide where he looked just as poor in front of goal" I don't get this, you're agreeing we're treating Cisse poorly? Like I said, we're not playing well offensively, maybe we could change it up a little see if we can help our world class, 10 million pound signing instead of stringing him out on the wing. I didn't say we were treating Cisse poorly I said he was playing poorly, we aren't scoring many and thankfully we haven't marginalised the only player who currently looks capable of scoring his fair share of goals. Ah man, I can't see how you can't see we're just totally fucking Cisse just so Ba can score goals. Cisse looks shit because he's on the wing. How will he ever prove he's good enough to play up front if he never gets to do so? I want both of them in the team playing well, we'll not get that without changing something, namely the formation or the players in that formation. Cisse shouldn't be on the right, he's god awful there. We are 18 games into the season, why are people talking like Cisse has played the whole season on the wing? He has played a very small percentage there after struggling to score in his natural position. We tend to hoof the ball constantly when we play 442, don't ask me why but we just do. Not saying that this service is entirely suitable for Ba either but it's totally unsuitable for Cisse and Ba is more likely to create something for himself. Suppose what I'm getting at is that Cisse hasn't had the chance to play central in a front 3, a position in which he excelled last season. FWIW I don't think Cisse's been as bad on the wing as is being made out. appreciate good reasoning rather than petty insults (not directed at you at all btw, just nice to read replies that make me think), I am just not confident to move our only player scoring on a consistent basis on the hope someone else will find their form. Out of interest, if you don't believe moving Cisse to the centre will rekindle his goal scoring then why do you think Ba will stop scoring if he's moved wider? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Whey I just want to see Cisse back to his best Jon, what do you have against that Nothing, as ironic as it is we talk about Ba doing what is best for the team but in the same context we can't afford to bend over backwards trying to do what's best for Cisse. We can't change the formation based on what worked for a few games last season, Ba is scoring, Cisse isn't. We are in poor form enough as it is, hoping Cisse finds that form again is too much of a gamble at this time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 They have both played the majority of this season in the centre and Cisse has looked toothless (I have to stress I love Cisse, feel like I am putting him down just to defend Ba but I really do like him). I don't think Cisse would have taken his chances if we lined up like last season, he is just going through a dip in form and thankfully we didn't move Ba out wide where he looked just as poor in front of goal because we would be REALLY struggling if we had. Cisse's never played in a 442, to be fair. He looks far less suited to it than Ba, maybe because Ba is a better player? Who knows. "thankfully we didn't move Ba out wide where he looked just as poor in front of goal" I don't get this, you're agreeing we're treating Cisse poorly? Like I said, we're not playing well offensively, maybe we could change it up a little see if we can help our world class, 10 million pound signing instead of stringing him out on the wing. I didn't say we were treating Cisse poorly I said he was playing poorly, we aren't scoring many and thankfully we haven't marginalised the only player who currently looks capable of scoring his fair share of goals. Ah man, I can't see how you can't see we're just totally fucking Cisse just so Ba can score goals. Cisse looks shit because he's on the wing. How will he ever prove he's good enough to play up front if he never gets to do so? I want both of them in the team playing well, we'll not get that without changing something, namely the formation or the players in that formation. Cisse shouldn't be on the right, he's god awful there. We are 18 games into the season, why are people talking like Cisse has played the whole season on the wing? He has played a very small percentage there after struggling to score in his natural position. We tend to hoof the ball constantly when we play 442, don't ask me why but we just do. Not saying that this service is entirely suitable for Ba either but it's totally unsuitable for Cisse and Ba is more likely to create something for himself. Suppose what I'm getting at is that Cisse hasn't had the chance to play central in a front 3, a position in which he excelled last season. FWIW I don't think Cisse's been as bad on the wing as is being made out. appreciate good reasoning rather than petty insults (not directed at you at all btw, just nice to read replies that make me think), I am just not confident to move our only player scoring on a consistent basis on the hope someone else will find their form. Out of interest, if you don't believe moving Cisse to the centre will rekindle his goal scoring then why do you think Ba will stop scoring if he's moved wider? Because Ba went through a massive drought with us there last season. I have said many times if Cisse was scoring I wouldn't be so concerned but as he isn't I am concerned about moving our only goalscorer into a position he didn't score from before. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimburst Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 It probably is a gamble, but we're just so fucking shit I'd just like to see something different. Ba feeding off scraps and shooting from half way at least a couple of times a match really irritates me. I also find Cisse a much more likeable footballer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 They have both played the majority of this season in the centre and Cisse has looked toothless (I have to stress I love Cisse, feel like I am putting him down just to defend Ba but I really do like him). I don't think Cisse would have taken his chances if we lined up like last season, he is just going through a dip in form and thankfully we didn't move Ba out wide where he looked just as poor in front of goal because we would be REALLY struggling if we had. Cisse's never played in a 442, to be fair. He looks far less suited to it than Ba, maybe because Ba is a better player? Who knows. "thankfully we didn't move Ba out wide where he looked just as poor in front of goal" I don't get this, you're agreeing we're treating Cisse poorly? Like I said, we're not playing well offensively, maybe we could change it up a little see if we can help our world class, 10 million pound signing instead of stringing him out on the wing. I didn't say we were treating Cisse poorly I said he was playing poorly, we aren't scoring many and thankfully we haven't marginalised the only player who currently looks capable of scoring his fair share of goals. Ah man, I can't see how you can't see we're just totally fucking Cisse just so Ba can score goals. Cisse looks shit because he's on the wing. How will he ever prove he's good enough to play up front if he never gets to do so? I want both of them in the team playing well, we'll not get that without changing something, namely the formation or the players in that formation. Cisse shouldn't be on the right, he's god awful there. We are 18 games into the season, why are people talking like Cisse has played the whole season on the wing? He has played a very small percentage there after struggling to score in his natural position. We tend to hoof the ball constantly when we play 442, don't ask me why but we just do. Not saying that this service is entirely suitable for Ba either but it's totally unsuitable for Cisse and Ba is more likely to create something for himself. Suppose what I'm getting at is that Cisse hasn't had the chance to play central in a front 3, a position in which he excelled last season. FWIW I don't think Cisse's been as bad on the wing as is being made out. appreciate good reasoning rather than petty insults (not directed at you at all btw, just nice to read replies that make me think), I am just not confident to move our only player scoring on a consistent basis on the hope someone else will find their form. Fuck you then, man. I didn't mean you either I just sometimes read posts opposing my argument that really make me think and appreciate the fact they aren't 'fucking Cajun, again with this shit!1'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeletor Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 They have both played the majority of this season in the centre and Cisse has looked toothless (I have to stress I love Cisse, feel like I am putting him down just to defend Ba but I really do like him). I don't think Cisse would have taken his chances if we lined up like last season, he is just going through a dip in form and thankfully we didn't move Ba out wide where he looked just as poor in front of goal because we would be REALLY struggling if we had. Cisse's never played in a 442, to be fair. He looks far less suited to it than Ba, maybe because Ba is a better player? Who knows. "thankfully we didn't move Ba out wide where he looked just as poor in front of goal" I don't get this, you're agreeing we're treating Cisse poorly? Like I said, we're not playing well offensively, maybe we could change it up a little see if we can help our world class, 10 million pound signing instead of stringing him out on the wing. I didn't say we were treating Cisse poorly I said he was playing poorly, we aren't scoring many and thankfully we haven't marginalised the only player who currently looks capable of scoring his fair share of goals. Ah man, I can't see how you can't see we're just totally fucking Cisse just so Ba can score goals. Cisse looks shit because he's on the wing. How will he ever prove he's good enough to play up front if he never gets to do so? I want both of them in the team playing well, we'll not get that without changing something, namely the formation or the players in that formation. Cisse shouldn't be on the right, he's god awful there. We are 18 games into the season, why are people talking like Cisse has played the whole season on the wing? He has played a very small percentage there after struggling to score in his natural position. We tend to hoof the ball constantly when we play 442, don't ask me why but we just do. Not saying that this service is entirely suitable for Ba either but it's totally unsuitable for Cisse and Ba is more likely to create something for himself. Suppose what I'm getting at is that Cisse hasn't had the chance to play central in a front 3, a position in which he excelled last season. FWIW I don't think Cisse's been as bad on the wing as is being made out. appreciate good reasoning rather than petty insults (not directed at you at all btw, just nice to read replies that make me think), I am just not confident to move our only player scoring on a consistent basis on the hope someone else will find their form. Out of interest, if you don't believe moving Cisse to the centre will rekindle his goal scoring then why do you think Ba will stop scoring if he's moved wider? Because Ba went through a massive drought with us there last season. I have said many times if Cisse was scoring I wouldn't be so concerned but as he isn't I am concerned about moving our only goalscorer into a position he didn't score from before. And Cisse went on a shit hot goal scoring run. Surely if you believe Ba will stop scoring based on previous evidence it's reasonable to believe Cisse will pick up his goal scoring form again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 FWIW, if you're going to play Cisse wide, surely it makes sense to play as Ba does wide, narrow and on the left with the opportunity to cut inside and shoot with his natural foot. Instead we're playing him: a) on the right, so his only option is to cross and b) ridiculously wide, like right on the touchline, so again, it's cross or nothing. He looks like he wears white boots, I think it's just all the fucking chalk he must have on them from running up and down the line all game Never seen anything so fucking ludicrous. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Whey I just want to see Cisse back to his best Jon, what do you have against that Nothing, as ironic as it is we talk about Ba doing what is best for the team but in the same context we can't afford to bend over backwards trying to do what's best for Cisse. We can't change the formation based on what worked for a few games last season, Ba is scoring, Cisse isn't. We are in poor form enough as it is, hoping Cisse finds that form again is too much of a gamble at this time. Not sure it constitutes a gamble given that every time Cisse's played centrally in a 3 he's done the business and we've functioned well as a team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 They have both played the majority of this season in the centre and Cisse has looked toothless (I have to stress I love Cisse, feel like I am putting him down just to defend Ba but I really do like him). I don't think Cisse would have taken his chances if we lined up like last season, he is just going through a dip in form and thankfully we didn't move Ba out wide where he looked just as poor in front of goal because we would be REALLY struggling if we had. Cisse's never played in a 442, to be fair. He looks far less suited to it than Ba, maybe because Ba is a better player? Who knows. "thankfully we didn't move Ba out wide where he looked just as poor in front of goal" I don't get this, you're agreeing we're treating Cisse poorly? Like I said, we're not playing well offensively, maybe we could change it up a little see if we can help our world class, 10 million pound signing instead of stringing him out on the wing. I didn't say we were treating Cisse poorly I said he was playing poorly, we aren't scoring many and thankfully we haven't marginalised the only player who currently looks capable of scoring his fair share of goals. Ah man, I can't see how you can't see we're just totally fucking Cisse just so Ba can score goals. Cisse looks shit because he's on the wing. How will he ever prove he's good enough to play up front if he never gets to do so? I want both of them in the team playing well, we'll not get that without changing something, namely the formation or the players in that formation. Cisse shouldn't be on the right, he's god awful there. We are 18 games into the season, why are people talking like Cisse has played the whole season on the wing? He has played a very small percentage there after struggling to score in his natural position. We tend to hoof the ball constantly when we play 442, don't ask me why but we just do. Not saying that this service is entirely suitable for Ba either but it's totally unsuitable for Cisse and Ba is more likely to create something for himself. Suppose what I'm getting at is that Cisse hasn't had the chance to play central in a front 3, a position in which he excelled last season. FWIW I don't think Cisse's been as bad on the wing as is being made out. appreciate good reasoning rather than petty insults (not directed at you at all btw, just nice to read replies that make me think), I am just not confident to move our only player scoring on a consistent basis on the hope someone else will find their form. Out of interest, if you don't believe moving Cisse to the centre will rekindle his goal scoring then why do you think Ba will stop scoring if he's moved wider? Because Ba went through a massive drought with us there last season. I have said many times if Cisse was scoring I wouldn't be so concerned but as he isn't I am concerned about moving our only goalscorer into a position he didn't score from before. And Cisse went on a shit hot goal scoring run. Surely if you believe Ba will stop scoring based on previous evidence it's reasonable to believe Cisse will pick up his goal scoring form again. Not really, it's not as if Cisse has been out on the wing all season. He has had the chances Ba had but Ba is the one putting them away while Cisse has one (one kicked off him yadda, yadda). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 They have both played the majority of this season in the centre and Cisse has looked toothless (I have to stress I love Cisse, feel like I am putting him down just to defend Ba but I really do like him). I don't think Cisse would have taken his chances if we lined up like last season, he is just going through a dip in form and thankfully we didn't move Ba out wide where he looked just as poor in front of goal because we would be REALLY struggling if we had. Cisse's never played in a 442, to be fair. He looks far less suited to it than Ba, maybe because Ba is a better player? Who knows. "thankfully we didn't move Ba out wide where he looked just as poor in front of goal" I don't get this, you're agreeing we're treating Cisse poorly? Like I said, we're not playing well offensively, maybe we could change it up a little see if we can help our world class, 10 million pound signing instead of stringing him out on the wing. I didn't say we were treating Cisse poorly I said he was playing poorly, we aren't scoring many and thankfully we haven't marginalised the only player who currently looks capable of scoring his fair share of goals. Ah man, I can't see how you can't see we're just totally fucking Cisse just so Ba can score goals. Cisse looks shit because he's on the wing. How will he ever prove he's good enough to play up front if he never gets to do so? I want both of them in the team playing well, we'll not get that without changing something, namely the formation or the players in that formation. Cisse shouldn't be on the right, he's god awful there. We are 18 games into the season, why are people talking like Cisse has played the whole season on the wing? He has played a very small percentage there after struggling to score in his natural position. We tend to hoof the ball constantly when we play 442, don't ask me why but we just do. Not saying that this service is entirely suitable for Ba either but it's totally unsuitable for Cisse and Ba is more likely to create something for himself. Suppose what I'm getting at is that Cisse hasn't had the chance to play central in a front 3, a position in which he excelled last season. FWIW I don't think Cisse's been as bad on the wing as is being made out. appreciate good reasoning rather than petty insults (not directed at you at all btw, just nice to read replies that make me think), I am just not confident to move our only player scoring on a consistent basis on the hope someone else will find their form. Out of interest, if you don't believe moving Cisse to the centre will rekindle his goal scoring then why do you think Ba will stop scoring if he's moved wider? Because Ba went through a massive drought with us there last season. I have said many times if Cisse was scoring I wouldn't be so concerned but as he isn't I am concerned about moving our only goalscorer into a position he didn't score from before. Cisse's confidence is shot as was Ba's 2nd half last season, strikers want to score goals so Ba see's playing left as a threat to that for him. If we play 4-3-3 (and we should) that can have only one central striker, I don't envy Pards for having this dilemma I just wish he would try it and let Demba see he can be a great player still playing left of a front three. Sir Bobby would have fixed this issue in no time, I just hope Pards can find a way he can fix it too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Whey I just want to see Cisse back to his best Jon, what do you have against that Nothing, as ironic as it is we talk about Ba doing what is best for the team but in the same context we can't afford to bend over backwards trying to do what's best for Cisse. We can't change the formation based on what worked for a few games last season, Ba is scoring, Cisse isn't. We are in poor form enough as it is, hoping Cisse finds that form again is too much of a gamble at this time. Not sure it constitutes a gamble given that every time Cisse's played centrally in a 3 he's done the business and we've functioned well as a team. Do you honestly believe he has performed to the best of his ability this season? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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