BrettNUFC Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Never have I seen someone who has delivered for us so well in the past be rounded on by so many people in such a harsh way. Jose Enrique Jose was criticised in his first season, after that can't remember anyone rounding on him, lots of players have had poor starts then picked up their form, that was nothing new. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 This guys career is probably over. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettNUFC Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 This guys career is probably over. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shays Given Tim Flowers Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 He has 48 top flight league goals. His first great top flight season came in 2010. For comparison - Darren Bent has 100. Torres 153. Cisse's career record was great from 2010-2012 but it was nothing to shout home about before and after. His supposed impressive career stats are a myth. http://pauladandrea.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/brokenrecord.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG32 Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 I wonder what "pardew" does to help "coach" cisse through this bad patch. seems to me our forwards are put on the pitch with no plan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 This guys career is probably over. In all seriousness though, I watch the guy now, and I can't understand how he was previously so good, as he's struggling so badly at the minute. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawK Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Never have I seen someone who has delivered for us so well in the past be rounded on by so many people in such a harsh way. Jose Enrique Jose was criticised in his first season, after that can't remember anyone rounding on him, lots of players have had poor starts then picked up their form, that was nothing new. I've perhaps listed him out of context, as I meant the fan reaction when he demanded to leave due to the lack of ambition the board was showing. Not really to do with his on-field form at all really. Point taken ^_^ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 We have a better shape when he's in the team because last time he wasn't Pardew stupidly played Remy centrally instead of on the wing where a) he's much more effective and b) we have nobody else who can do what he does, while centrally we also have Cisse and Gouffran. As far as I am concerned, even ignoring the goal fraught, there is nothing Cisse can do in our build up play that Gouffran can't, so for now it should be the latter until Cisse sorts himself out. Completely agree, the problem with Everton was ( or one of many problems) our entire front 3 was messed about with to the point their were all out of position. Remy who was CF should have been LW, HBA who was LW should have been RW and Gouffran who was RW should have been CF. Having one out of position is ok but all 3 is moronic and asking for trouble as well obviously being majorly imbalanced. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattoon Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Cisse isn't, or has ever been a class forward, he is however a decent one. We were spoilt with his rich vein of luck, but though he's not as good as he showed then, he sure as hell not as bad as he looks now. Pardew clearly doesn't know what to do with him and how to get him out of this slump, therefor the best option right now is to drop him and give Gouffran his run in that spot. Let him earn his place back in the squad and maybe he'll get the kick up the arse he obviously needs. He'll come good again, I feel it may need a new manager for him to do so though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Rich vein of luck Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mosstef Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 This guys career is probably over. In all seriousness though, I watch the guy now, and I can't understand how he was previously so good, as he's struggling so badly at the minute. That first run of games for us . He was so impressive. I seriously thought we have one of the best strikers in the world on our hands at that time! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanji Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 He was so confident in a team that was flying high in the table. There were a ton of "factors" outside of himself that were in everyone's favor. He hit those brilliant first time goals but he also had some clinical finishes vs Liverpool (back post header across the keeper & taking his time to finish the 2nd). It's like the summer after just completely ruined him, as he's not looked the same since. I haven't a clue why, and I won't blame it on being played out wide or something, he just looks 1/2 the player he was when he first came, just looks unsure of himself and we've given him every chance in the world to get out of it, but he just clearly doesn't look like he's going to any time soon. The one plus I have is that Cardiff was the first time he actually was getting into the positions to attempt shots or whatever on goal in ages, generally he just looks like he's wandering around the pitch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG32 Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Pardew has ruined him, just like he is trying to ruin everyone else. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest icemanblue Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Pardew has ruined him, just like he is trying to ruin everyone else. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG32 Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 :lol: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 I think he can still have a decent season, it's just dependent on Cabaye at the minute. His movement is still good, it's just 'selfish' in the sense that he only really makes a dash when he sees an opportunity for a goal. Cabaye seems to be the only one that can spot anything for him with any regularity, we need to see more of the combination play that led to Remy's second on Saturday. Giving him consistent chances is going to be key, we have the odd game where he gets an opportunity or two but it's often followed by games where he gets nothing, that's not going to build confidence. For the calls that we need a striker that can do much more and link the side, it's a very short-termist view. Our wing play is a massive issue, a bigger problem than who starts through the middle, we're forcing the need to have a great all-round striker because of it. There are few like Ba who can feed off scraps so well, we simply must improve our wide service first and foremost. Hatem needs to re-find the creativity he had at the back end of 11/12. Edit: See the Fulham game for what we need to do. Cisse hit the bar after Ben Arfa hit an early cross, it's one of the only times we've done that this season. Crossing seems like a last resort for our lot, as a consequence, it's often slow, predictable and allows defenders to regroup. I think our wide service must be one of the worst in the league. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 We don't have much cover on the wings, but Ben Arfa and Remy are more than good enough. I don't see them as the cause for our main striker's goal draught unless you think is Papiss Cisse United FC instead of Newcastle United FC. I also disagree that it would be very difficult to find a more 'rounded' striker to pair them with, or even somebody with useful attributes that would bring out the best of our other attacking players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Remy and Ben Arfa are good players, no doubt, but what wing play do they really provide? Do we have any wide players that have good, varied delivery? Remy's hit the byline once and Ben Arfa's put in 2 decent crosses all season, that's not enough for the central striker. Debuchy's alright but Santon is incredibly predictable, he never goes on the outside and seldom provides an early ball. I'm not saying we couldn't get somebody that would suit them better, either. I'm saying it's short-termist to try and find the person that does tie it all together when we should be looking to make our attacking play far more varied. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Remy and Ben Arfa are good players, no doubt, but what wing play do they really provide? Do we have any wide players that have good, varied delivery? Remy's hit the byline once and Ben Arfa's put in 2 decent crosses all season, that's not enough for the central striker. Debuchy's alright but Santon is incredibly predictable, he never goes on the outside and seldom provides an early ball. I'm not saying we couldn't get somebody that would suit them better, either. I'm saying it's short-termist to try and find the person that does tie it all together when we should be looking to make our attacking play far more varied. They may not provide a flurry of crosses from the byline, but I don't believe that would be the way to get Cisse going again either; he's not exactly Andy Carroll when it comes to the physical battle with centre backs or Michael Owen when it comes to movement in the box to be in the right place at the right time. What Ben Arfa and Remy do provide is plenty of pace, movement and good shooting from out wide and out of the box. To do that effectively the ball needs to stick up top, preferably with a striker who can also create chances for himself and others around him. Is Papiss Cisse that type of striker? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Ben Arfa certainly needs to step up on the creativity front. We've already got Remy to act as the second striker in our forward trio, we're lacking the creativity and service part. HBA certainly has the ability to provide good crossing and inventive passing but he's been far too focused on going it alone this season, we've seen he can do it but it has to be better than it has been. Pardew we spot on in that Fulham game, he was slowing us down, lo and behold he creates 2 very good chances in that second half. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Remy and Ben Arfa are good players, no doubt, but what wing play do they really provide? Do we have any wide players that have good, varied delivery? Remy's hit the byline once and Ben Arfa's put in 2 decent crosses all season, that's not enough for the central striker. Debuchy's alright but Santon is incredibly predictable, he never goes on the outside and seldom provides an early ball. I'm not saying we couldn't get somebody that would suit them better, either. I'm saying it's short-termist to try and find the person that does tie it all together when we should be looking to make our attacking play far more varied. They may not provide a flurry of crosses from the byline, but I don't believe that would be the way to get Cisse going again either; he's not exactly Andy Carroll when it comes to the physical battle with centre backs or Michael Owen when it comes to movement in the box to be in the right place at the right time. What Ben Arfa and Remy do provide is plenty of pace, movement and good shooting from out wide and out of the box. To do that effectively the ball needs to stick up top, preferably with a striker who can also create chances for himself and others around him. Is Papiss Cisse that type of striker? It's not about being physical though. If you put in an early ball or play it in at speed, then it's not a physical battle, it's about that movement and mental reaction to get you that advantage. Look at Hernandez for example. We just have no variety and play with little width. Cisse scored from quite a few crosses in 2011/2012. A striker that makes chances for himself and others is a great one, are we honestly going to pick one of them up? Of course I'd prefer it if we could, but we won't. Cisse is still good and it's useless not playing to his game, it's not as if what he needs is complex either, it's just basic wide man stuff. You're advocating having little balance to our side, relying on 3 players to do it all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Ben Arfa certainly needs to step up on the creativity front. We've already got Remy to act as the second striker in our forward trio, we're lacking the creativity and service part. HBA certainly has the ability to provide good crossing and inventive passing but he's been far too focused on going it alone this season, we've seen he can do it but it has to be better than it has been. Pardew we spot on in that Fulham game, he was slowing us down, lo and behold he creates 2 very good chances in that second half. Can't believe you're seriously suggesting Ben Arfa's lack of creativity is to blame for Cisse's lack of goals. Maybe it would help if Cisse could hold the ball up for him so he could move higher up the pitch and make intelligent runs behind the defense without being offside every now and then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Ben Arfa certainly needs to step up on the creativity front. We've already got Remy to act as the second striker in our forward trio, we're lacking the creativity and service part. HBA certainly has the ability to provide good crossing and inventive passing but he's been far too focused on going it alone this season, we've seen he can do it but it has to be better than it has been. Pardew we spot on in that Fulham game, he was slowing us down, lo and behold he creates 2 very good chances in that second half. Can't believe you're seriously suggesting Ben Arfa's lack of creativity is to blame for Cisse's lack of goals. Maybe it would help if Cisse could hold the ball up for him so he could move higher up the pitch and make intelligent runs behind the defense without being offside every now and then. Of course he's a part of it, he's meant to be our most creative outlet It's not just him mind, it's the full backs as well. This isn't me saying Cisse's doing well or anything, he's not playing great at all but there are problems with our style. Bringing in a striker that can hold the ball up would be useful but you have to look bigger than that if you want to make an attacking unit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 I'm not sure why you'd want Ben Arfa and Remy to play the same, as well. It just makes us easy to defend against when all of our play involves being narrow and moving inside. Man U have thrived off width for years, they had the unpredictability of playing through the middle and out wide, we're not good enough to just do the former. It's no surprise that someone like Hernandez has got goals in his limited opportunities, they make space for each other by stretching other teams' defences out, so when crosses come in, there are gaps for strikers to exploit. That and they put a variety of crosses in. In short, Cisse is not the answer for us in the long run but inhibiting ourselves by encouraging playing in a very one-dimensional style is a bigger problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 http://socksonanoctopus.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/DZlmaql.gif Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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