Papiss Cissé

[Guest bimpy474]

I dont think Cisse will recapture his previous form, and probably needs a change of scenery to do so. That being said i think Pardew and shunting Cisse out wide to play Shola up top is when his form dropped. Not saying Pardew is directly responsible, but Cisse is a confidence player and to see someone like Shola constantly played ahead of you, to the point you're played on the right wing, and seen as poorer in that position than a player of Shola's ability. Well it cant do your confidence much good.

 

And now it's catch 22, Pardew doesn't trust him enough to play well so doesn't play him, and Cisse cant regain any confidence because he's not playing. Best he got elsewhere to get games to get that confidence back.

 

His form had dropped since at least a few months before that ridiculous experiment, which was one of the probable causes. He didn't want to keep Papiss up top as we were suffering due partly to his lack of goals, but didn't want to drop him to the bench to prevent his confidence being shot altogether/hoping he would score a goal or two from out wide to recapture his confidence/form.

 

Well that was something Pardew misses a lot, when a players form dips you rest him. Then bring him back in. Pardew's lack of rotation is appalling at times and it mustn't do the players good when their form does dip. That said players have to take responsibility too, be it Cisse or whoever.

 

Not to be to critical of Cisse but his application has been awful. I think we have got the point where Pardew doesn't trust and wont play him now, and Pap knows it so his confidence wont be regained under Pardew imo.

[Gallowgate Toon]

Was Cisse's last start against Cardiff? He played well in that game, iirc.

[Unbelievable]

His form dropped the second we put Ba's needs before his and the team went to s***.

 

Coincidentally, Ba's form dropped when he was shunted out wide to accomodate our shiney new number 9. Ba then asked/demanded (who knows?) to be played centrally and we went 4-4-2. Ba went back to performing like he did previously, Cisse's form took a sharp dive. Everything else is history. I find it quite staggering that there are still people pointing at Ba requesting to be played in his best position or Cisse being requested to play a grand total of four matches out wide when he had been firing blanks for months playing centrally for Cisse's ongoing lack of form a full season and a half later. Maybe, just maybe, Cisse is not the superman he appeared to be for that great couple of months where everything he tried turned into gold, or he would have been able to get himself into some semblance of form by now..

[Tooj]

Ba missed a few chances but his form didn't drop as he was very good playing that role on the left.

[Ronaldo]

The team was better before things were needlessly switched. That's all I give a damn about.

[Nobody]

Ba missed a few chances but his form didn't drop as he was very good playing that role on the left.

It's the best I've seen us play for years. We all thought we were going places if Pardew were to stick with it. Of course, ad soon as we had a poor game, he scrapped it.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Ba isn't a selfish player in terms of team-play and work-rate.

 

Yes he is. His legs have gone by 65 minutes even when he doesn't particularly exert himself and you seldom see him passing the ball in the final third if there's a possibility to shoot. Which is why Mourinho wants nowt to do with him.

 

Hell of a player in some respects but he's someone to put in the team to feed off scraps and play as an individual up top.

 

Can't remember Ba like that for us like. He could be greedy in terms of shots at goal and not passing when he should but in general he worked hard for the team and linked up play well in the main. He got greedier the more isolated he become which was a common theme under Pardew towards the end of games, losing or winning.

 

I agree about feeding of scraps and playing as an individual, he was very good at that but he showed he could function in a, well, a functioning side, even when not scoring.

[Unbelievable]

Ba missed a few chances but his form didn't drop as he was very good playing that role on the left.

 

I wouldn't say he was very good; he certainly didn't look anything like a natural wide player. He was decent, and he helped the team out for half a season by playing out of position. People give him stick for not wanting to continue playing out wide long term, but I don't think he was ever a good enough wide player long term, and I fully understand his desire to play in his natural position, especially since he had been scoring for fun before being asked to play out wide to accomodate Cisse. I guess you could question his application to the club by not wanting to continue to play out wide, but I think it shows character to make a case for yourself and then subsequently deliver. I wouldn't mind seeing the same self confidence and determination from Papiss Cisse in this rotten run of form myself.

[sempuki]

Was Cisse's last start against Cardiff? He played well in that game, iirc.

Apart from his goal he was poor in my opinion.

[Unbelievable]

The team was better before things were needlessly switched. That's all I give a damn about.

 

I understand that from a fan's perspective, but surely you can see it from a player's perspective. He had been asked, and (reluctantly) agreed to place the interest of the team above his own. When the season had ended the club could go out and look for an out and out left winger if they wanted to. Why should Demba Ba, a natural striker at the height of his game, not be completely entitled to request to be played in his best position in the new season?

[Gallowgate Toon]

Was Cisse's last start against Cardiff? He played well in that game, iirc.

Apart from his goal he was poor in my opinion.

 

Sorry, should have said league start!

[Unbelievable]

Ba isn't a selfish player in terms of team-play and work-rate.

 

Yes he is. His legs have gone by 65 minutes even when he doesn't particularly exert himself and you seldom see him passing the ball in the final third if there's a possibility to shoot. Which is why Mourinho wants nowt to do with him.

 

Hell of a player in some respects but he's someone to put in the team to feed off scraps and play as an individual up top.

 

Can't remember Ba like that for us like. He could be greedy in terms of shots at goal and not passing when he should but in general he worked hard for the team and linked up play well in the main. He got greedier the more isolated he become which was a common theme under Pardew towards the end of games, losing or winning.

 

I agree about feeding of scraps and playing as an individual, he was very good at that but he showed he could function in a, well, a functioning side, even when not scoring.

 

His (Ba's) best games arguably came when he wasn't played up top on his own as Ronaldo suggests, but in a 4-4-2 besides such luminaries as Shola and Best.

[LV]

Ba isn't a selfish player in terms of team-play and work-rate.

 

Yes he is. His legs have gone by 65 minutes even when he doesn't particularly exert himself and you seldom see him passing the ball in the final third if there's a possibility to shoot. Which is why Mourinho wants nowt to do with him.

 

Hell of a player in some respects but he's someone to put in the team to feed off scraps and play as an individual up top.

 

Can't remember Ba like that for us like. He could be greedy in terms of shots at goal and not passing when he should but in general he worked hard for the team and linked up play well in the main. He got greedier the more isolated he become which was a common theme under Pardew towards the end of games, losing or winning.

 

I agree about feeding of scraps and playing as an individual, he was very good at that but he showed he could function in a, well, a functioning side, even when not scoring.

 

His (Ba's) best games arguably came when he wasn't played up top on his own as Ronaldo suggests, but in a 4-4-2 besides such luminaries as Shola and Best.

 

Agree with this like. Ba was great at getting on the end of knockdowns and flick-ons.

[Mole_Toonfan]

Ronaldo is right in the sense if you have Ben Arfa a ball dominant player who likes to make things happen, Remy another player who likes to drive at the back 4 you need a striker who is very good at holding the ball up, playing the lone role by himself and bring others into play.

 

For all Ba's strengths i don't think those are things where he was particularly brilliant at.

 

Not like Pardew would play Ben Arfa and Remy on the wings ever again mind.

 

 

[Unbelievable]

Ronaldo is right in the sense if you have Ben Arfa a ball dominant player who likes to make things happen, Remy another player who likes to drive at the back 4 you need a striker who is very good at holding the ball up, playing the lone role by himself and bring others into play.

 

For all Ba's strengths i don't think those are things where he was particularly brilliant at.

 

Not like Pardew would play Ben Arfa and Remy on the wings ever again mind.

 

 

 

That's not what he said though, or I wouldn't have disagreed. He said unselfish, which is a load of rubbish.

[Mole_Toonfan]

Well unselfish and bringing players into the game goes hand in hand tbf..... if you were a selfish player you would be less likely to do so.

[Unbelievable]

Well unselfish and bringing players into the game goes hand in hand tbf..... if you were a selfish player you would be less likely to do so.

 

Not really. I would want a striker capable of bringing others into play but confident enough to consider himself the main man for scoring goals, hence I don't mind a but of greed in front of goal. To me, bringing others into play is something that happens in the build up of attacks, further away from goal..

[Mole_Toonfan]

Well unselfish and bringing players into the game goes hand in hand tbf..... if you were a selfish player you would be less likely to do so.

 

Not really. I would want a striker capable of bringing others into play but confident enough to consider himself the main man for scoring goals, hence I don't mind a but of greed in front of goal. To me, bringing others into play is something that happens in the build up of attacks, further away from goal..

 

I agree, its kind of a must to have both really.... above all else its a big reason why Shola is so shit i would say he's very unselfish but doesn't have the confidence to do anything with it.

 

Problem is these players with the confidence to score and selflessly play for the team cost lots of money and we all know that Ashley won't fund it.

 

Our best bet is hoping we get De Jong on loan and he comes good really..... oh well.

[Cajun]

Not sure how Ba apparently played so well out wide, barely scoring, not bringing his team mates into play and having a shit touch on top of being a greedy bastard. What was he doing well?

[Ronaldo]

Well unselfish and bringing players into the game goes hand in hand tbf..... if you were a selfish player you would be less likely to do so.

 

Not really. I would want a striker capable of bringing others into play but confident enough to consider himself the main man for scoring goals, hence I don't mind a but of greed in front of goal. To me, bringing others into play is something that happens in the build up of attacks, further away from goal..

 

So unselfish = not confident in front of goal?

 

Give up and stop being daft, man. I'm right, Mole's right, you're wrong.

[Dave]

@lee_ryder

Besiktas coach Özen on Cisse bid: "The question is if Newcastle would be willing to let him go and if Cissé would want to play in Turkey."

[Mr. Snrub]

@lee_ryder

Besiktas coach Özen on Cisse bid: "The question is if Newcastle would be willing to let him go and if Cissé would want to play in Turkey."

 

Yep, definitely questions that would need to be asked if a Turkish team wanted to sign Papiss Cisse.

[Unbelievable]

Well unselfish and bringing players into the game goes hand in hand tbf..... if you were a selfish player you would be less likely to do so.

 

Not really. I would want a striker capable of bringing others into play but confident enough to consider himself the main man for scoring goals, hence I don't mind a but of greed in front of goal. To me, bringing others into play is something that happens in the build up of attacks, further away from goal..

 

So unselfish = not confident in front of goal?

 

Give up and stop being daft, man. I'm right, Mole's right, you're wrong.

 

Right and wrong? Really Ronaldo?

 

Maybe you would care to explain what you meant by "if you're playing three up top you need an unselfish player in the middle", because from where I'm sitting that sounds like a load of utter and complete rubbish. Then you proceed to bring Ba into the equation as not being that type of player and say he's only useful feeding of scraps on his own up top, which you should know is not how he has best performed for us, as I seem to remember you saying in the past he was best used playing of a bigger striker doing the dirty work. Honestly, your argument seems to be all over the place on this..

[Disco]

Given our 2 other strikers (generous to Shola tbf) won't be here currently next season it'd be lunacy to sell him given our struggles to move players from the verge to over the line.

[r0cafella]

Given our 2 other strikers (generous to Shola tbf) won't be here currently next season it'd be lunacy to sell him given our struggles to move players from the verge to over the line.

 

I don't rate Cisse at all but this is true.

 

Unless we can get two strikers in and convince Remy to stay then we must keep hold of Cisse.