Guest bimpy474 Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 In hindsight Wonga should really have quietly said to the club they were okay with Cisse wearing a shirt without a badge. If Cisse leaves on the back of it, it's hardly going to improve their image and the whole business has given them more negative publicity they could have done without. Might have been that the talks have been with just the club and Cisse, i'm hoping your point is the next step. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ujpest doza Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 In hindsight Wonga should really have quietly said to the club they were okay with Cisse wearing a shirt without a badge. If Cisse leaves on the back of it, it's hardly going to improve their image and the whole business has given them more negative publicity they could have done without. Except of course both they and Ashley see all publicity as good publicity. It's a nonsense. He plays in the Barclays League He wore a Virgin Money Shirt. He likes gambling in casinos He sits smoking shisha pipes in a scruffy cafe. It's a conveniant excuse to engineer either a move or a big pay rise. I wonder if he invests his massive pay packet in ISA's and High Interest Offshore Bank Accounts as well? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raconteur Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Fuck selling him tbh. He's a good player and we got him at a reasonable price. We can sensibly resolve this without selling him The only way we will sell him is if we get his full market value. Say what you like about Ashley but he won't ever be taken for a mug in the transfer market. But at what point does Ashley decide paying Cisse wages without him playing is worse than copping a hit of a few million on a transfer fee? And before anyone suggests NOT paying Cisse (i.e. continuously fining him for refusing to play), just image how that might play out in the court of public opinion... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdckelly Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Fuck selling him tbh. He's a good player and we got him at a reasonable price. We can sensibly resolve this without selling him The only way we will sell him is if we get his full market value. Say what you like about Ashley but he won't ever be taken for a mug in the transfer market. But at what point does Ashley decide paying Cisse wages without him playing is worse than copping a hit of a few million on a transfer fee? And before anyone suggests NOT paying Cisse (i.e. continuously fining him for refusing to play), just image how that might play out in the court of public opinion... they'd be within their rights to since by refusing to play he's in breach of contract, can't expect to get the massive wages he gets without actually doing your job Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRD Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Highly doubt Cisse is gonna get his way on this. The board seems to work very closely with Wonga over their sponsorship, logos plastered on every available space on clothing, those 'feel-go' SD logo removal and gate-gate. And we know how ruthless/stubborn Ashley can be when he wants his way. The only way it's going to happen is that Wonga pulls off another feel-good stunt again. But then, if they wanted to do so they wouldn't have taken til now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 In hindsight Wonga should really have quietly said to the club they were okay with Cisse wearing a shirt without a badge. If Cisse leaves on the back of it, it's hardly going to improve their image and the whole business has given them more negative publicity they could have done without. But then again, if that were the case, they'd want you to reduce the money they were paying for the sponsorship as a result of it. I actually don't think Wonga would go for that anyway - if there is a Newcastle match on telly, and people are asking "why is that striker the only one not wearing the sponsor's logo", it's like a nationally televised reminder of how Wonga are unacceptable to a lot of people. I don't think this is a situation which would be easy to fix in any way other than selling the player concerned - even though it's mental to find yourselves in that situation. Then Cisse's replacement had better start banging in the goals, because you don't want to be seen by the Newcastle fans as the sponsors who sold a star for their own purposes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 No chance are Wonga not going to allow our main striker to not wear their sponsor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NobbyOhNobby Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 I think that is the point though. Wonga are the final nail, the step too far, etc etc. It's far easier to justify having a high street bank logo on your shirt as opposed to Wonga/Money Shop or some other payday loan company. It's just a step too far, and I'm finding it really hard to criticise Cissé as I'm definitely not going to purchase any paraphernalia with Wonga emblazoned across it, and their sponsorship is one of the reasons I've cancelled my season ticket. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 No chance are Wonga not going to allow our main striker to not wear their sponsor. Hmmm...I'm still trying to work out what that means when it's unraveled. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raconteur Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Fuck selling him tbh. He's a good player and we got him at a reasonable price. We can sensibly resolve this without selling him The only way we will sell him is if we get his full market value. Say what you like about Ashley but he won't ever be taken for a mug in the transfer market. But at what point does Ashley decide paying Cisse wages without him playing is worse than copping a hit of a few million on a transfer fee? And before anyone suggests NOT paying Cisse (i.e. continuously fining him for refusing to play), just image how that might play out in the court of public opinion... they'd be within their rights to since by refusing to play he's in breach of contract, can't expect to get the massive wages he gets without actually doing your job Are you sure about that? Personally, I think a good lawyer might make a decent case that an employer cannot take action against an employee for making a moral stand, especially when they had no input in the decision-making process that led to the morally objectionable outcome. I'm not taking a side here, and I don't know how UK industrial relations legislation works, but I'm certain a good lawyer could make a good case, and all the while Ashley is paying squillions in legal fees while the case is being played out in the courts and in the media. I don't believe it's as cut and dried as you have suggested. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimburst Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Oh god, if Cisse doesn't give in soon then he's gone no matter what, I reckon. Ashley won't like what he's seeing, and we'll get Darren Bent in for 8m and he'll be our main striker Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Oh for the halcyon days when sponsorship deals helped buy strikers for the club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Nobbyohnobby. Wonga are pussycats compared to Barclays whom he has no objection to. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 No chance are Wonga not going to allow our main striker to not wear their sponsor. Hmmm...I'm still trying to work out what that means when it's unraveled. I can only see 1 option at the moment, Cisse is sold. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Oh god, if Cisse doesn't give in soon then he's gone no matter what, I reckon. Ashley won't like what he's seeing, and we'll get Darren Bent in for 8m and he'll be our main striker I'm not against Bent coming here, but if it's to replace Cisse he'll be under tremendous pressure. I'm not sure that's the atmosphere he'll want to arrive in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 No matter the religious or moral implications, Wonga is a fucking awful shirt sponsor, tacky and cheap which can basically be applied to our entire brand ATM Personally speaking, I don't like having Wonga associated with our club but had just about resigned myself to it. If we start losing players as a result though I will be pissed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
relámpago blanco Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Fuck selling him tbh. He's a good player and we got him at a reasonable price. We can sensibly resolve this without selling him The only way we will sell him is if we get his full market value. Say what you like about Ashley but he won't ever be taken for a mug in the transfer market. But at what point does Ashley decide paying Cisse wages without him playing is worse than copping a hit of a few million on a transfer fee? And before anyone suggests NOT paying Cisse (i.e. continuously fining him for refusing to play), just image how that might play out in the court of public opinion... they'd be within their rights to since by refusing to play he's in breach of contract, can't expect to get the massive wages he gets without actually doing your job Are you sure about that? Personally, I think a good lawyer might make a decent case that an employer cannot take action against an employee for making a moral stand, especially when they had no input in the decision-making process that led to the morally objectionable outcome. I'm not taking a side here, and I don't know how UK industrial relations legislation works, but I'm certain a good lawyer could make a good case, and all the while Ashley is paying squillions in legal fees while the case is being played out in the courts and in the media. I don't believe it's as cut and dried as you have suggested. It's fairly straight forward it's illegal to force anyone to do anything at work that goes against their religious beliefs. If they aren't careful Cisse could piss off for free as they are in breach of employment law ergo in breach of contract. Meaning Cisse should be able to just leave without a fee if he chooses to. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 It won't go to court. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Gorilla.....that's a myth and has been proved loads of times. Sunday trading for example. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Didn't British Airways win a case against a Cabin Staff wearing a cross necklace? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 It could have worked out better like. I mean, Wonga are a shite brand and horrible company, but it's not like we did anything actually wrong having them as sponsor. You can't really get into a situation where you're consulting the religious beliefs of your players about commercial decisions. (Not that I disagree with Cisse's stance necessarily) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 This is going back to the sponsorship deal itself. The fact that Wonga were the best sponsorship for the club says quite a bit about how businesses view us commercially. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shays Given Tim Flowers Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 It could have worked out better like. I mean, Wonga are a s**** brand and horrible company, but it's not like we did anything actually wrong having them as sponsor. You can't really get into a situation where you're consulting the religious beliefs of your players about commercial decisions. (Not that I disagree with Cisse's stance necessarily) Well no you could have anybody you like Sponsor you. If this was happening to another club however I would be enjoying the some what Karmic angle in play here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 This is going back to the sponsorship deal itself. The fact that Wonga were the best sponsorship for the club says quite a bit about how businesses view us commercially. Yup. Companies will see us as tacky as fuck and you can't blame them for that. Everybody says what a great businessman Ashley is yet he's been terrible for us on the commercial side of things. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
matta Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 We have a shitstorm around us attracting easily avoidable shit like this. No doubt this will affect us greatly this summer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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