Alan Pardew

[Benwell Lad]

Hindu was one of those trying to defend the transfer window we had so its not surprising.

 

You do make me laugh, good sir. I never defended the transfer window. Just didn't think it was quite the disaster that you and some others made it out to be (mind you, you make everything out to be a disaster). I was as disappointed as anyone when we failed to get a RB in.

 

Seriously I´m not surprised at all to read that. I can´t believe how some can try to talk away this. Hopefully we can play better (I doubt that) but until now we hasen´t.

 

Hasn´t fell this unexcited to watch us play in years. Lost all confidence whats so ever with Pardew and that we can bring decent football.

 

Top 8th. I would that that immediately!

 

Hilarious Can't quite believe there are NUFC fans who are actually thinking this way. You don't sit behind me at the match do you (East Stand, close to the Gallowgate), because there's an uber negative noob there who expresses his desire to see Pardew sacked whenever we play a game where we haven't scored in the first half.

 

(apologies if this is a whoosh)

 

Don't worry HT, he's not. Just comes on here with negative wind ups and never said one thing which would indicate he's a Newcastle fan.

Sit behind you ?  I doubt if he's ever been anywhere near SJP.

[Guest Tyson]

I know it's already been alluded to. Cisse is non-factor in open play now, looks unmotivated. At his best Cisse is not a marauding dribbler, he's not an atypical African forward when working the wide channels. He'll beat you his his one-touch link-up play and smarts off-the-ball (when there is midfield movement around him).

 

<B>We should look to offload him in Jan & replace him with a lump up forward, while his stock is still high. I don't think he's cut-out for target-man (back-to-goal) useage, physically & mentally. The current brand of football, under Pards, is a far cry from what i saw of Freiburg last year(even when they caught at the wrong end of the table). It must be a shock to the system, for Cisse, football culture-wise - from the priorities layed out on the training paddock, to the strategy implemented on game-day.</B>

 

 

So you are taking into account the first six games of this season, but ignoring out style of play in the last 8 games of last season?

 

You seem to forget his opening performances (prior to the switch to the fluid 433), where some posters suggested that Shola should start. The motivation to impress a new new gaffer was there, the physicality needed to play back-to-goal wasn't. Over time it has to have an impact on individual morale, and we saw this with Jenas (under Souness, a new gaffer) where proper footballers are required to scrap-it-out & kick the shit out of the opposition.

 

Compare Cisse's individual performance & work-rate out wide (against West Brom away) during that hot-spell of form last year. We were a different beast away from home (fluid counterattacking football, commiting numbers forward through the middle) and Pardew's mentality & philosophy was in stark contrast to what is on display now, especially on the road. And most of Cisse's damage was inflicted away from home. Cisse wasn't just the only one flourishing during Pards' all-too-brief epiphany last season - Cabaye being an obvious candidate.

 

Honeymoon period for Cisse is now over. The initial excitement which accompanies a big move, and Freiburg-to-NUFC (to the EPL) is an obvious step-up. That's now in the past, along with his rich vein of form last season. He's had an entire pre-season to absorb a gameplan & overall philosophy which is clearly at odds with the methodical & technical approach seen in Germany, and it's a far cry in comparison with the philosophy on display (as alluded to) when Pards finally released the shackles last year (and ended in the wake of as Parky says 'the fallout from Wigan').

 

Over the long haul, with all the initial excitment out of the way, Cisse isn't cut-out for the current gameplan. His first-up efforts last year provided a sneak preview to what i'm seeing now. Right now looking at the current list, with the ball-playing ability in mind (minus Willo, and Simpson) Pards is trying to shove a square plug into a round hole. This said Cisse is arguably the most vulnerable to failure (of the entire lot) if there isn't a substantial shift in Pards' regression back to type.

 

 

[Guest Tyson]

We are essentially a long ball side and have been the whole time Pard8 has been here and there is no talking around that. The instructions are pretty clear when anyone in mf or def gets the ball - 9/10 it's hit long. The odd short one is when they give it to Hatem or Santon runs down the wing with it. No point in dressing it up any other way.

 

It's not really about the lack of movement either as it's pretty clear to me players are told to hold positions or get told off..The CM pairing are rarely in and around the box. Cabaye and Tiote often take hopeless slashes at the ball from 35 yards out instead of moving forward with it through passing interchanges. It really is torture.

 

This is compounded by the fact we have wide players playing on their wrong foot so can't cross from the byline and have to come inside and there is a lack of real pace in the side on the wings or otherwise. We have literally survived on world class finishing and and Hatem being unstopppable on his day, not much else. Krul kept us in many games last year as we rode our luck. That might be running out now.

 

The percentage game can only take you so far and we genuinely suprised many sides last year who now study us more closely and will redoble their efforts this year. Some games this year already I've seen 3 defenders close down Hatem.

 

There was that period last year (fluid 433, counterattacking football with midfield movement) where i think Pards went against his cautious long-ball philosophy (based on field position, no possession retention/build-up play in 2/3rds of the pitch) in a bid to turn around what was a stale run-of-form mid-season.

 

I think the Wigan result, where they aggressively pressed our short passing game (coming out of our own half) and hit us hard in quick transition, has seen Pards return to type. The first twenty minutes at Wigan has emerged as something of a deal-breaker, for a manager who looked to be evolving in accordance with the players available. How often have we we committed midfield numbers forward (particularly through the middle, & early) on the counter, in the wake of Wigan. Our incohesive footy, with the calibre of attacking talent available, is no different to Allardyce's as per his best years at Bolton, which placed a heavy reliance snatching results thanks to individual moments of brilliance (from the likes of Okocha, and Youri D) in the final third of the pitch.

 

Just a point about last year, and the aformentioned hot-spell of results last year which turned out to be difference maker between '8th & thereabouts - but still good enough for the board' and a surprise run at the CL spots. Off-the-ball, with Cabaye playing slightly more advanced in an attacking sense, he frequently snuck into the danger areas around the box. Looked a different player, dangerous & motivated - looked as though he was enjoying himself. Whereas there's disinterested look about him, as the game passes him by, when used in that deep midfield line of two with The Hump Ball Corner (of Willo, Simpson & GK) bypassing him for the most of the game.

 

My final comment is better suited to Dropout's football philosophy thread. But from the appropriation of training time allocated to each aspect of the game (ie. most of the preparation devoted to defensive schemes) to what is clearly a long-ball strategy come matchday, the weekly routine must be demotivating workplace environement for the team's pure ball-players. Too many ball-players on our books, and Pards' 'up and, at 'em' long-ball philosophy will wear thin.

 

We have played 4-3-3 this season, 2nd half v Spurs so that would indicate Pardew is aware of its merits if 4-4-2 isnt working. We did have both Cabaye & Tiote that day though, which we havent had since (which is a huge factor i think people are underplaying in favor of discussing tactics). So perhaps he doesnt trust using it without those two. Certainly though both strikers seem to be at their best through the middle & you dont advance their understanding or ability to play there together by not giving it time to click. If Cabaye has Tiote behind him, he might be able to help them. Again, we havent seen this properly yet.

 

Reactionary & negative management ie. not grabbing a game by the throat, from the outset, as seen last year .

[sugoinufc]

                  krul

 

 

new rb    taylor    colo      santon

 

                 

                  tiote

 

          cabaye    anita

 

Arfa                          new Lw - speedy, tricky and goal getter ala arfa.

 

                  cisse/ba

 

hope pards will aim for something like this.

[Wisdom Body]

I think the stat in that table that best reflects what's seen on the pitch is the "short passes" one, not the "long balls" one. We aren't doing too well in that column either... We generally haven't been fluid to watch under Pardew, and unless it's to see what piece of skill Demba, Papiss or Ben Arfa can conjure, I can't imagine many neutrals scrambling to watch our games.

 

I think one of the problems Pardew has is that he basically seems to have very little say in transfer policy, and that our main buying strategy is "who can we get for cheap?"

 

Hence he's got a squad of players that don't really fit into any particular system or style of play. We constantly chop and change. Sometimes it's 4-4-2, sometimes it's 4-5-1, sometimes it's 4-3-3, sometimes it's 4-2-3-1. Sometimes Ba's up front, sometimes he's a left sided wide forward. Perch is a full back, now he's a central midfielder, now he's a centre half. Anita's a central midfielder, now he's a full back. Jonas has played right, left, centrally, full back, Ben Arfa's played up front, left, right, centrally. Ryan Taylor's played just about everywhere but up front and in goal. Pardew likes to play a direct 4-4-2 but most of our players don't.

 

What position does Sammy Ameobi play if he comes into our team? Marveaux? Ferguson? Gosling? Vuckic? I honestly haven't got the first clue what the best/main position is of half of our players.

 

Versatility's fine but we seem to ask it from nearly every player in the squad because as a club, we don't seem to have any real idea of how we should be playing. Wenger never buys a player that he doesn't think will be able to play the way he wants to play. Pardew doesn't have that luxury. He gets what he's given and then has to shoehorn it all into a working unit. No wonder we look all over the place and have no cohesion. Plan B? We've not really come up with Plan A yet.

 

It's an important point this one. Probably the reason why I've never been that crazy about our transfer policy or vaunted scouting network

 

I definitely wouldn't say we have one of the strongest teams in the league like I've read elsewhere here, in fact in terms of overall squad strength, I'd say we're in mid-table. His cons have been well highlighted, but this is probably where Pardew's strongest pro comes from: the fact we've generally surpassed our and other's expectations under him. People usually talk about how he has improved our defence, but I don't see him as any defensive aficionado. The improved defence comes from a team-wide increase in tactical discipline, work-rate, professionalism and general mental strength ; I can't remember a NUFC team that has ground out as many narrow wins as this one. He has to demonstrate that he possesses qualities beyond these as a step towards us making further progress under him.

[colinmk]

I think the stat in that table that best reflects what's seen on the pitch is the "short passes" one, not the "long balls" one. We aren't doing too well in that column either... We generally haven't been fluid to watch under Pardew, and unless it's to see what piece of skill Demba, Papiss or Ben Arfa can conjure, I can't imagine many neutrals scrambling to watch our games.

 

I think one of the problems Pardew has is that he basically seems to have very little say in transfer policy, and that our main buying strategy is "who can we get for cheap?"

 

Hence he's got a squad of players that don't really fit into any particular system or style of play. We constantly chop and change. Sometimes it's 4-4-2, sometimes it's 4-5-1, sometimes it's 4-3-3, sometimes it's 4-2-3-1. Sometimes Ba's up front, sometimes he's a left sided wide forward. Perch is a full back, now he's a central midfielder, now he's a centre half. Anita's a central midfielder, now he's a full back. Jonas has played right, left, centrally, full back, Ben Arfa's played up front, left, right, centrally. Ryan Taylor's played just about everywhere but up front and in goal. Pardew likes to play a direct 4-4-2 but most of our players don't.

 

What position does Sammy Ameobi play if he comes into our team? Marveaux? Ferguson? Gosling? Vuckic? I honestly haven't got the first clue what the best/main position is of half of our players.

 

Versatility's fine but we seem to ask it from nearly every player in the squad because as a club, we don't seem to have any real idea of how we should be playing. Wenger never buys a player that he doesn't think will be able to play the way he wants to play. Pardew doesn't have that luxury. He gets what he's given and then has to shoehorn it all into a working unit. No wonder we look all over the place and have no cohesion. Plan B? We've not really come up with Plan A yet.

 

It's an important point this one. Probably the reason why I've never been that crazy about our transfer policy or vaunted scouting network

 

I definitely wouldn't say we have one of the strongest teams in the league like I've read elsewhere here, in fact in terms of overall squad strength, I'd say we're in mid-table. His cons have been well highlighted, but this is probably where Pardew's strongest pro comes from: the fact we've generally surpassed our and other's expectations under him. People usually talk about how he has improved our defence, but I don't see him as any defensive aficionado. The improved defence comes from a team-wide increase in tactical discipline, work-rate, professionalism and general mental strength ; I can't remember a NUFC team that has ground out as many narrow wins as this one. He has to demonstrate that he possesses qualities beyond these as a step towards us making further progress under him.

 

Not squad but our first eleven when fit is very strong. Arguably a top six one anyway.

[TRon]

We are essentially a long ball side and have been the whole time Pard8 has been here and there is no talking around that. The instructions are pretty clear when anyone in mf or def gets the ball - 9/10 it's hit long. The odd short one is when they give it to Hatem or Santon runs down the wing with it. No point in dressing it up any other way.

 

It's not really about the lack of movement either as it's pretty clear to me players are told to hold positions or get told off..The CM pairing are rarely in and around the box. Cabaye and Tiote often take hopeless slashes at the ball from 35 yards out instead of moving forward with it through passing interchanges. It really is torture.

 

This is compounded by the fact we have wide players playing on their wrong foot so can't cross from the byline and have to come inside and there is a lack of real pace in the side on the wings or otherwise. We have literally survived on world class finishing and and Hatem being unstopppable on his day, not much else. Krul kept us in many games last year as we rode our luck. That might be running out now.

 

The percentage game can only take you so far and we genuinely suprised many sides last year who now study us more closely and will redoble their efforts this year. Some games this year already I've seen 3 defenders close down Hatem.

 

Excellent post Parky. I think Pardew has tried to play more fluid formations, but the problem is he doesn't really believe in it, so if we get a setback he's always in a rush to revert to what he knows best, which is long ball football. I think this might be the season that we start to lose some of our better players if we don't make the transition in style to take us up a notch. Players like Cabaye aren't really built for the style we play and well though he's done, I can see him and a few others getting fed up with the lack of football we play. No one minded last season when the results kept coming but if they don't it will be a different story. Not that it will be seen as a massive problem by the club because they won't mind selling players who become unhappy.

[Parky]

Played a nice 433 today with Cisse and Shola moving around and Obertan in good places to counter. The 3 man mf worked a treat. I wonder if he will keep it?

[Guest bimpy474]

Played a nice 433 today with Cisse and Shola moving around and Obertan in good places to counter. The 3 man mf worked a treat. I wonder if he will keep it?

 

We didn't play 4-3-3 for most of that game. Started it and finished it but the goals came playing 4-4-2 ish.

[Parky]

Played a nice 433 today with Cisse and Shola moving around and Obertan in good places to counter. The 3 man mf worked a treat. I wonder if he will keep it?

 

We didn't play 4-3-3 for most of that game. Started it and finished it but the goals came playing 4-4-2 ish.

 

It wasn't a rigid 442 at all. It was a 433 ish..

[Guest bimpy474]

Played a nice 433 today with Cisse and Shola moving around and Obertan in good places to counter. The 3 man mf worked a treat. I wonder if he will keep it?

 

We didn't play 4-3-3 for most of that game. Started it and finished it but the goals came playing 4-4-2 ish.

 

It wasn't a rigid 442 at all. It was a 433 ish..

 

We started 4-3-3 but switched to 4-4-1-1 and then when Gosling came on we went back to 4-3-3.

 

But even when we did switch it was still much more free roaming than usual, i just hope Pardew gives the players that freedom in the league, where he seems to make us much more rigid.

[lovejoy]

Had a blinder tonight. Perfect night for him.

[Conjo]

Wonder how the stats for short and long passes were today.

[Jayson]

Played a nice 433 today with Cisse and Shola moving around and Obertan in good places to counter. The 3 man mf worked a treat. I wonder if he will keep it?

 

It worked because we had Cabaye+Tiote, the same two we had the last time he used it v spurs. All this was ignored for the masses of intellectual debate over negative management. He may use it again, its likely that he'll try to get Ba + Cisse clicking as a pair id imagine. They havent yet had Cabaye playing freely due to Tiote's influence to create for them.

[Dave]

Missed the game, sounds like a great result really. Need to keep Tiote & Cabaye fit.

[Jayson]

Whats your point?

[Dave]

You missed the game, yet feel qualified to comment on how we played.

[Mick]

Pardew got it spot on tonight, late on in the game Cisse was starting to slowly head towards our goal as he was looking for the ball with 3 defenders around him, Pardew was screaming at him and telling to get further forward.  He did and 3 defenders went with him and they even dropped a couple of midfielders between the defenders and our midfield which meant they were less of a threat going forward because they didn't have the numbers.

[Jayson]

You missed the game, but feel qualified to comment on how we played.

 

Because i suggested it worked due to Tiote's influence? Not the biggest logical jump when everyones praising Cabayes attacking performance is it really. I would've thought it regardless, seeing as ive been stating it for the last week or so while everyone moaned.

[Dave]

'Suggested'.

[littlelunchbox]

i think we are just going to keep playing turgid type of football in the prem until we are near mathematically safe then pardew will unleash the chains off the players ankles.  much like last season.

[Jayson]

I bet you dont disagree though huh

[Jayson]

i think we are just going to keep playing turgid type of football in the prem until we are near mathematically safe then pardew will unleash the chains off the players ankles.  much like last season.

 

Aye definately. Useless manager trying to hold us back and that.

[Dave]

Looking forward to your player ratings.

[Jayson]

Jayson 10

Dave 0

 

littlelunchbox -4*