Alan Pardew

[Guest BooBoo]

When it comes to the much trumpeted 433, whilst we got results with it, the only times we looked a good footballing side with was WBA away and Stoke home. Maybe the second half of the Liverpool game. Other matches like Swansea and Bolton during that run were fairly tepid performances with reliance on moments of magic.

[Mick]

The gap between our forwards and the rest of the team when we break is embarrassing.

[Disco]

Just out of curiosity what are people's "bare minimum" expectations this year? Would people accept a slump in the league position if it meant better football?

 

I think I said top 8 and a decent run in the EL and anything less would be disappointing. Whilst things are poor tonight, I still think we'll achieve that. We won't get back into Europe though.

 

I think I had us down for 8th but I'd accept lower if it meant reaching the latter stages of the UEFA/FA Cup.

 

We're going to end up paying for a summer of missed chances pretty predictably.

[littlelunchbox]

When it comes to the much trumpeted 433, whilst we got results with it, the only times we looked a good footballing side with was WBA away and Stoke home. Maybe the second half of the Liverpool game. Other matches like Swansea and Bolton during that run were fairly tepid performances with reliance on moments of magic.

 

look we tried 4-5-1/4-3-3  whatever you want to call it, 4-4-2 we tried in abundance.  We were shyt in all of them.

 

its not about formations anymore its about the same players being in these formations and what they instructed to do/can't do. 

[Mistle17]

And another thing that fucks me right off with him is his reluctance to try anything new- mainly because he doesn't have a fucking pair. When he does (finally) put something into action (i.e 4-3-3, or not playing Danny Simpson etc) and it isn't a raging success instantly he won't do it again. He seems to deem it ineffective and wont do it again. It's so, so frustrating and yet another sign of how out of his depth he is. At least with someone like Brendan Rodgers he's sticking to what he believes in, despite initial lack of success.

 

But it's all good, apparently we want to control the midfield and play like Barcelona, whilst we've also been working really hard on set pieces and making sure the other team worries about us. But it just hasn't happened yet because the chances just didn't go in today even though the players tried really, really hard in kicking it as far as they could for 90 minutes........ 

[Guest bimpy474]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20196343

 

BBC interview.

[Guest BooBoo]

When it comes to the much trumpeted 433, whilst we got results with it, the only times we looked a good footballing side with was WBA away and Stoke home. Maybe the second half of the Liverpool game. Other matches like Swansea and Bolton during that run were fairly tepid performances with reliance on moments of magic.

 

look we tried 4-5-1/4-3-3  whatever you want to call it, 4-4-2 we tried in abundance.  We were shyt in all of them.

 

its not about formations anymore its about the same players being in these formations and what they instructed to do/can't do. 

 

Yes I agree. People think 433 is the answer which I'm not sure; our issues go much deeper than formation. For me it's the team mentality which is "dont get beat" as opposed to "win the game!" that's off not the set up.

[JH]

- He persists with a flat, rigid 4-4-2 when we don't have the personnel for that formation.

- We play better with the ball on the ground - so we constantly hoof it.

- Ba and Cisse can't play in a forward two - so we constantly hoof it to them.

- HBA, Ba and Cisse spent 80% of the game facing their own goalkeeper

- Our set pieces are awful, and I'm not just saying that. The taker, the setup, the constantly knock to Williamson - it's all rubbish

- We have two wingers and two fullbacks bombing down the wings, sending crosses in, only for them to go over the forward's head - again, that happened at least 6 times today.

- He sends on Obertan because he has 'the pace', then the fucker doesn't even use it!

- Constantly chopping and changing the side (albeit some through injury/suspension) but we shouldn't be make 9 changes between Thursday and Sunday.

 

Overall, we haven't put in a convincing performance all season, our heads look down and it's up to him to start earning that eight year contract.

[Guest bimpy474]

When it comes to the much trumpeted 433, whilst we got results with it, the only times we looked a good footballing side with was WBA away and Stoke home. Maybe the second half of the Liverpool game. Other matches like Swansea and Bolton during that run were fairly tepid performances with reliance on moments of magic.

 

look we tried 4-5-1/4-3-3  whatever you want to call it, 4-4-2 we tried in abundance.  We were shyt in all of them.

 

its not about formations anymore its about the same players being in these formations and what they instructed to do/can't do. 

 

Yes I agree. People think 433 is the answer which I'm not sure; our issues go much deeper than formation. For me it's the team mentality which is "dont get beat" as opposed to "win the game!" that's off not the set up.

 

I actually dont think he sets-up to not lose, i think we are just so poor going forward that it looks that way. Added to the fact we surrender possession so much it just looks so negative.

[The College Dropout]

said this before but there's only us & QPR who play a flat 4-4-2 in the PL.

[Jagten]

4-4-2 is fine, but you need movement from pretty much everyone bar the CBs. We are not moving into space, resulting in a s*** long ball.

No, it's not. It's incredibly challenging to form passing triangles and subsequently keep the ball - something Pardew has spoken about extensively.

 

Yeah, that's why you need movement. Wide men coming inside, Forwards dropping deep, Fullbacks overlapping. Midfielders pushing forward. It's not rocket science.

 

Most of all you need a f***ing plan, regardless of the formation you decide to go with. We've got no plan whatsoever.

Clearly what we're doing could be done much better, but 4-3-3 still remains the ideal solution.

 

I'm not totally convinced Pardew is capable of what is required, TBH.

[Mistle17]

And the mackems.

[Guest palnese]

4-4-2 is fine, but you need movement from pretty much everyone bar the CBs. We are not moving into space, resulting in a s*** long ball.

No, it's not. It's incredibly challenging to form passing triangles and subsequently keep the ball - something Pardew has spoken about extensively.

 

Yeah, that's why you need movement. Wide men coming inside, Forwards dropping deep, Fullbacks overlapping. Midfielders pushing forward. It's not rocket science.

 

Most of all you need a f***ing plan, regardless of the formation you decide to go with. We've got no plan whatsoever.

Clearly what we're doing could be done much better, but 4-3-3 still remains the ideal solution.

 

I'm not totally convinced Pardew is capable of what is required, TBH.

 

Agreed.

[Weezertron]

'If we scored I think we would have won' - I fucking hate this line he peddles every week.

[TRC]

- He persists with a flat, rigid 4-4-2 when we don't have the personnel for that formation.

- We play better with the ball on the ground - so we constantly hoof it.

- Ba and Cisse can't play in a forward two - so we constantly hoof it to them.

- HBA, Ba and Cisse spent 80% of the game facing their own goalkeeper

- Our set pieces are awful, and I'm not just saying that. The taker, the setup, the constantly knock to Williamson - it's all rubbish

- We have two wingers and two fullbacks bombing down the wings, sending crosses in, only for them to go over the forward's head - again, that happened at least 6 times today.

- He sends on Obertan because he has 'the pace', then the f***er doesn't even use it!

- Constantly chopping and changing the side (albeit some through injury/suspension) but we shouldn't be make 9 changes between Thursday and Sunday.

 

Overall, we haven't put in a convincing performance all season, our heads look down and it's up to him to start earning that eight year contract.

 

end of thread.

[Guest neesy111]

'If we scored I think we would have won' - I fucking hate this line he peddles every week.

 

Sounds like Martin O'Neill with that excuse.

[Guest palnese]

I'll be 33 years old when his contract is up. I'll probably look like I'm 63

[The College Dropout]

And the mackems.

 

Yep. Our problems are bigger than a formation. Our general passing and movement is terrible but the fact remains, 4-4-2 is redundant in this league.

 

We have loads of games. Sit Cisse on the bench for league games and try something else.

[nufc4eva]

He has us playing utter shit. Instead of not playing long ball he brings Shola on. It's absolutely dreadful tactics and nothing to do with Europe or players. Every time we boot the ball we lose it, what's the fucking point

[TRon]

And another thing that fucks me right off with him is his reluctance to try anything new- mainly because he doesn't have a fucking pair. When he does (finally) put something into action (i.e 4-3-3, or not playing Danny Simpson etc) and it isn't a raging success instantly he won't do it again. He seems to deem it ineffective and wont do it again. It's so, so frustrating and yet another sign of how out of his depth he is. At least with someone like Brendan Rodgers he's sticking to what he believes in, despite initial lack of success.

 

But it's all good, apparently we want to control the midfield and play like Barcelona, whilst we've also been working really hard on set pieces and making sure the other team worries about us. But it just hasn't happened yet because the chances just didn't go in today even though the players tried really, really hard in kicking it as far as they could for 90 minutes........ 

 

I said that months ago in the Liverpool thread. Now Rogers might still turn out to be a bad manager, but the football he's producing is the right way to play IF you want to become a successful side. His basic football philosophy is sound, whereas Pardew's looks antiquated. Sorry but you can only get so far with that approach.

[Mistle17]

And another thing that f***s me right off with him is his reluctance to try anything new- mainly because he doesn't have a f***ing pair. When he does (finally) put something into action (i.e 4-3-3, or not playing Danny Simpson etc) and it isn't a raging success instantly he won't do it again. He seems to deem it ineffective and wont do it again. It's so, so frustrating and yet another sign of how out of his depth he is. At least with someone like Brendan Rodgers he's sticking to what he believes in, despite initial lack of success.

 

But it's all good, apparently we want to control the midfield and play like Barcelona, whilst we've also been working really hard on set pieces and making sure the other team worries about us. But it just hasn't happened yet because the chances just didn't go in today even though the players tried really, really hard in kicking it as far as they could for 90 minutes........ 

 

I said that months ago in the Liverpool thread. Now Rogers might still turn out to be a bad manager, but the football he's producing is the right way to play IF you want to become a successful side. His basic football philosophy is sound, whereas Pardew's looks antiquated. Sorry but you can only get so far with that approach.

 

I agree. I honestly wouldn't mind if we were set up as a team who are well organised and very hard to break down, but live to hit teams on the counter attack- releasing Ben Arfa, Cabaye, Ba and Cisse. Or having someone like West Ham did today in Diame. I'd be more than happy with that. But what we have is a completely disjointed 4-4-2 (it doesn't even look like a formation most of the time) where the players will punt the ball up the pitch as if getting it to cross the half way line is considered an attack.

 

Why do we have to go a goal down to be able to conjure an attack together? Why?!! Its totally inexcusable! And I'm beyond sick of it.

[The College Dropout]

Most worrying thing is the way we started. Not just the 4-4-2 but that slow, cautious start we always seem to have. I'd love us to start aggresively and look to score an early goal the way Man Utd. did to us. We always like to "feel" our way into games and it's BS.

 

We should be looking to kill games against the likes of WHU within an hour.

[toon25]

It's also a mentality thing, I feel. We've seemed to excel in previous seasons/situations when the media etc have written us off. This year there's an expectation that we're going to do well. Whether that's Pardew's fault for not installing in the players that 'siege mentality' I'm not sure, but he needs to do much more to fire up the squad before a game. The way we've started more or less all games so far this season is nothing short of farcical.

[Sifu]

So what can you say about Alan Pardew?

 

Well, imo, he's a brilliant man manager and does handle the media rather effectively. Tactically though (the most important aspect of any manager), he's a very overcautious man, much to our detriment really. It can be argued a flat 4-4-2 is Pardew's way of "playing it safe" and counteracting the opposition (ie. the aim of being defensively solid) - he used it quite a bit last season and to an extent it did "work" and this is probably why he's persisting with it. It's evident that he primarily works on the defensive side of our game with the attacking side most likely being left on the back burner until a few/couple days before the day of the game - this is somewhat supported by the fact that we don't seem to have many ideas when we do attack during a game - it's usually the case that we pass it to Ben Arfa and let him do something magical/out-of-this-world. Not the right approach at all if you ask me.

 

From what I've seen this season, our standard approach seems to be that of letting the opposition attack us for 20 minutes before we actually do something of note in their half - if this is Pardew's plan of "lulling them into a false sense of security", then again, that is not the right approach to adopt. When we do get into the game, we do show glimpses of doing something good but our shape and lack of movement means that we ultimately do nothing of note in the final third. This again is down to the limitations of the flat 4-4-2. The 4-4-2 vs 4-3-3 argument has been done to death so I won't go into it in depth about it but what I will say is that 4-3-3 gets the best out of the players we have at our disposal whilst the 4-4-2 restricts them. 4-4-2 can be a good system btw but only with players who are suited to it, ie. natural wingers - something we don't have. Admittedly, there will be times when a cautious approach will be key to coming out on top of a game but there is a need for flexibility.

 

Are the players inculpable? Not really, some of our players have been underperforming (messrs Tiote and Cissé for me) in comparison to their outings last season. Our reliance on limited players such as Simpson and Williamson was always going to go up to a point where it was going to detriment us rather than benefit us - don't get me wrong they are players who are capable of putting in a decent shift when called upon but ultimately if we are to progress, we can't be seeing their names on the teamsheet week in, week out. You could put that down to failings from the powers above - I do appreciate their approach of not giving in to silly money demands from other clubs but there does come a point where you have to bite the bullet and offer that extra million pounds - it can reap benefits in the long run. Pardew has been let down in the summer, he did make it clear that he wanted 2/3 new first teamers in but nothing materialised.

 

There have been worrying signs for the last three months now (which Pardew has acknowledged tbf) and thus far, they haven't really been addressed - there have been glimpses of improvement imo but they only ever happen for about 5/10 minutes in a game. Something does want to come out but we shy away from it time after time. I still trust Pardew btw, the things he did last season are more than enough evidence to me that he can get us playing in a way that is great to watch - my overly optimistic mind tells me that he will get things clicking eventually. However, it's an undeniable fact that his current tactics have been p*ss poor and he needs to sort it out and fast. His overcautious (and what appears to be his only) approach (score first, defend for the rest of the game) is a hindrance. It's now really time for him to properly earn his money. Howay Alan, time to "live a little".

[AlanSkÃrare]

Need a drastic change in his ideas on how to use the players. This sort of result: we'll have more of them if we don't start playing to our strengths.