samag Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Anyway I'm just desperately hoping Pardew is brave and doesn't step away from the setup and passing philosophy that has been much more present recently. To be fair to him he did that at Arsenal when I was expecting him to abandon it after shipping four at Old Trafford, but letting in another seven is something else entirely. It's to his credit that he's trying something different, but results aren't really improving. I'd much rather he stick with the principle of going after teams than trying to keep the ball in the air though, even if it takes a while longer to see the rewards. I agree, if we can find some defenders in January i think we be ok. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 That's why we tried to sign Douglas (to supercede Williamson) and Debuchy (to supercede Simpson). It didn't happen. So there's no argument over what the club needs because the owner clearly agrees with you. It's just a question of the extent to which you splash the cash and I'm less inclined than most to deduce from the fact that we missed out on those two that we necessarily lack ambition, or that anyone is necessarily acting against the club's best long-term interests. We didn't try hard enough then did we, and at this time it's cost the club potentially £7,500,000 in prize money. Also, the loss of not bringing in the two players we required will probably have a knock on effect and make it even more difficuilt to bring in the type of player that we want. It's easier to bring somebody into a team who have just finished 5th than it is to bring players into a 15th placed team. Yep. It might prove to have been a cock-up long term. It might mean we end up slackening our transfer policy and being a little bit more willing to push the boat out. What it doesn't mean is that the owner doesn't know what he's doing. At worst it was a cock-up and our policy needs to be tweaked. At best it's a sign that we actually have a policy, which is a relief after the Shepherd days and will serve us a lot better than his approach did in the long run. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 That's why we tried to sign Douglas (to supercede Williamson) and Debuchy (to supercede Simpson). It didn't happen. So there's no argument over what the club needs because the owner clearly agrees with you. It's just a question of the extent to which you splash the cash and I'm less inclined than most to deduce from the fact that we missed out on those two that we necessarily lack ambition, or that anyone is necessarily acting against the club's best long-term interests. We didn't try hard enough then did we, and at this time it's cost the club potentially £7,500,000 in prize money. Also, the loss of not bringing in the two players we required will probably have a knock on effect and make it even more difficuilt to bring in the type of player that we want. It's easier to bring somebody into a team who have just finished 5th than it is to bring players into a 15th placed team. Yep. It might prove to have been a cock-up long term. It might mean we end up slackening our transfer policy and being a little bit more willing to push the boat out. What it doesn't mean is that the owner doesn't know what he's doing. At worst it was a cock-up and our policy needs to be tweaked. At best it's a sign that we actually have a policy, which is a relief after the Shepherd days and will serve us a lot better than his approach did in the long run. no, it means he's a gambler which we always knew...his gamble was to set his prices and not move on them based on the understanding that simpson and williamson (in particular) would have another decent season the gamble failed, badly Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Any transfer policy short of giving your manager a blank cheque represents a gamble of sorts. There will always be an element of stick-or-twist. Possibly this gamble didn't pay off, but that doesn't necessarily mean applying the same policy for the next 5 years wouldn't see us end up with a good team and in profit. I think it probably does go down as a slip but to read some of the posts on here you'd have thought it was symptomatic of some kind of chronic lack of ambition, which I just don't see. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 jesus dude, after promotion he gambled like shit and it paid off with us finishing 5th...people are understandably pissed off that the same gamble has seen us not push on from that but face a relegation battle what the policy suggests to me is that if rigidly adhered to as it was last summer is that we'll more than likely make little progress over the length of time you're talking about, there will be ups and downs but ultimately we'll end up without the great team you speculate 'cause ashley will never pay for it football presents opportunities to clubs at certain times, we've probably just missed one imo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sicko2ndbest Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 jesus dude, after promotion he gambled like s*** and it paid off with us finishing 5th...people are understandably p*ssed off that the same gamble has seen us not push on from that but face a relegation battle what the policy suggests to me is that if rigidly adhered to as it was last summer is that we'll more than likely make little progress over the length of time you're talking about, there will be ups and downs but ultimately we'll end up without the great team you speculate 'cause ashley will never pay for it football presents opportunities to clubs at certain times, we've probably just missed one imo Wouldn't say 'missed' necessarily but this window is crucial Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beezeri Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Anyway I'm just desperately hoping Pardew is brave and doesn't step away from the setup and passing philosophy that has been much more present recently. To be fair to him he did that at Arsenal when I was expecting him to abandon it after shipping four at Old Trafford, but letting in another seven is something else entirely. It's to his credit that he's trying something different, but results aren't really improving. I'd much rather he stick with the principle of going after teams than trying to keep the ball in the air though, even if it takes a while longer to see the rewards. I agree, if we can find some defenders in January i think we be ok. We had the same defensive line last season and we did okay. It's the midfield which doesn't do their defensive job at all and especially Tiote I think. He keeps losing possession constantly in very dangerous areas. Can't really imagine some top clubs would be willing to pay over 15 million for him not that long ago. He's nothing but a liability at the moment! It seems that Pardew has realized that we can't defend so he has chosen to go all out attack tactics in recent matches which might be entertaining but doesn't change anything. WTF is Cisse being played at wide right? It will get better when we get Cabaye back and Tiote off the pitch(unless he won't drop his horrible playmaking efforts). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlin Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 That's why we tried to sign Douglas (to supercede Williamson) and Debuchy (to supercede Simpson). It didn't happen. So there's no argument over what the club needs because the owner clearly agrees with you. It's just a question of the extent to which you splash the cash and I'm less inclined than most to deduce from the fact that we missed out on those two that we necessarily lack ambition, or that anyone is necessarily acting against the club's best long-term interests. We didn't try hard enough then did we, and at this time it's cost the club potentially £7,500,000 in prize money. Also, the loss of not bringing in the two players we required will probably have a knock on effect and make it even more difficuilt to bring in the type of player that we want. It's easier to bring somebody into a team who have just finished 5th than it is to bring players into a 15th placed team. Yep. It might prove to have been a cock-up long term. It might mean we end up slackening our transfer policy and being a little bit more willing to push the boat out. What it doesn't mean is that the owner doesn't know what he's doing. At worst it was a cock-up and our policy needs to be tweaked. At best it's a sign that we actually have a policy, which is a relief after the Shepherd days and will serve us a lot better than his approach did in the long run. no, it means he's a gambler which we always knew...his gamble was to set his prices and not move on them based on the understanding that simpson and williamson (in particular) would have another decent season the gamble failed, badly It isn't the first time he has gambled and failed either...both with NUFC and in his oen financial dealings a few years ago... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 That's why we tried to sign Douglas (to supercede Williamson) and Debuchy (to supercede Simpson). It didn't happen. So there's no argument over what the club needs because the owner clearly agrees with you. It's just a question of the extent to which you splash the cash and I'm less inclined than most to deduce from the fact that we missed out on those two that we necessarily lack ambition, or that anyone is necessarily acting against the club's best long-term interests. We didn't try hard enough then did we, and at this time it's cost the club potentially £7,500,000 in prize money. Also, the loss of not bringing in the two players we required will probably have a knock on effect and make it even more difficuilt to bring in the type of player that we want. It's easier to bring somebody into a team who have just finished 5th than it is to bring players into a 15th placed team. Yep. It might prove to have been a cock-up long term. It might mean we end up slackening our transfer policy and being a little bit more willing to push the boat out. What it doesn't mean is that the owner doesn't know what he's doing. At worst it was a cock-up and our policy needs to be tweaked. At best it's a sign that we actually have a policy, which is a relief after the Shepherd days and will serve us a lot better than his approach did in the long run. no, it means he's a gambler which we always knew...his gamble was to set his prices and not move on them based on the understanding that simpson and williamson (in particular) would have another decent season the gamble failed, badly It isn't the first time he has gambled and failed either...both with NUFC and in his oen financial dealings a few years ago... well, obviously Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 The idea isn't that Ashley pays for it, it's that the club does. Which is fine. What I'm seeing here - lapping it up when we overachieve and then going mental and attacking the club hierarchy at the first loss of momentum - isn't really support in my book. It's the mentality of a casual consumer who expects to be satisfied at all times or he rejects the product. I'll be quick to have a go if I see Ashley pointing the club in the wrong direction but I'm certainly not going to have a go over an unlucky transfer window, in the context of the progress we've made in the last two seasons. Perhaps it would've been better had we finished 10th last season, because the level of expectation I'm seeing now is more or less back to Shepherd-era levels. One of the best things about going down and coming back up was that it represented a reality check, with a general acceptance that the club would now have to rebuild for the future. They did, and did it very quickly indeed with a host of great signings, and now it's as though it never happened. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 i like how this dummy berates me for speculating about transfer values in the window yet confidently spouts that the window was "unlucky" and he knows we were "trying" to sign players it just didn't work out... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 The news stories identifying our targets and reporting on our efforts to get them were the giveaway. Unlike you I'm not relying on a command of precise figures. All I need to know to have a salient point is that we made concerted attempts to sign a centre half and a right back, and there's plenty of evidence for that in the public domain. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 The news stories identifying our targets and reporting on our efforts to get them were the giveaway. Unlike you I'm not relying on a command of precise figures. All I need to know to have a salient point is that we made concerted attempts to sign a centre half and a right back, and there's plenty of evidence for that in the public domain. so were the vague transfer fees i quoted and was told was mere speculation...you're basing everything on paper talk then, so you know fuck all like the rest of us therefore don't be talking like it's fact that you know what the clubs intentions were lest we forget they have a tricky relationship with honesty Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 I'm not taking the club's word for it - those transfer targets were very widely reported. See the Debuchy thread which seems to have made a comeback just now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliottman Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Well, now that those fixtures are out the way, looking at Januarys fixtures, its make or break. Everton Brighton Norwich Reading Villa With Anita, Cabaye, Taylor, HBA (Hopefully) and surely a couple of additions, we can only hope for a good Month. I do think that when we get some numbers back we'll start winning games. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Attack those teams, like we have recently and I can see us doing really well in those fixtures. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cp40 Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 If cant get 6 points from that- that we deserve to be relegated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 If cant get 6 points from that- that we deserve to be relegated. doubt we'll get any points at brighton. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Five o Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Well, now that those fixtures are out the way, looking at Januarys fixtures, its make or break. Everton Brighton Norwich Reading Villa With Anita, Cabaye, Taylor, HBA (Hopefully) and surely a couple of additions, we can only hope for a good Month. I do think that when we get some numbers back we'll start winning games. Have to gain some momentum in jan. And just push on from there. Forget about Nov/Dec. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cp40 Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 If cant get 6 points from that- that we deserve to be relegated. doubt we'll get any points at brighton. you never do in the FA cup, thats why i said 6 instead of 8-or9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG32 Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 The idea isn't that Ashley pays for it, it's that the club does. Which is fine. What I'm seeing here - lapping it up when we overachieve and then going mental and attacking the club hierarchy at the first loss of momentum - isn't really support in my book. It's the mentality of a casual consumer who expects to be satisfied at all times or he rejects the product. I'll be quick to have a go if I see Ashley pointing the club in the wrong direction but I'm certainly not going to have a go over an unlucky transfer window, in the context of the progress we've made in the last two seasons. Perhaps it would've been better had we finished 10th last season, because the level of expectation I'm seeing now is more or less back to Shepherd-era levels. One of the best things about going down and coming back up was that it represented a reality check, with a general acceptance that the club would now have to rebuild for the future. They did, and did it very quickly indeed with a host of great signings, and now it's as though it never happened. Its a football forum, its bipolar. I think deep everyone knows we have done well and respect it but we are having a tough period and fear our prem status. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Flash Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Was dearly hoping he'd been sacked before I got home Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Think everything he's said post-game has been very fair. Apparently he even acknowledged the poor subs? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 He needs results and they have to come soon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Eggenberger Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Think everything he's said post-game has been very fair. Apparently he even acknowledged the poor subs? Ultimately its a results business this, and switching from laughable to merely fair excuses doesnt float for long either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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