Alan Pardew

[ExiledGeordie]

 

I'm far from saying Pardew is blameless

[Mick]

 

 

When we played well, Willi would have the ball collected from him ( he even managed to mess that up sometimes ) by Cabaye or Ben arfa, they would carry it forward or play a pass our lesser players mess up most weeks instead of hoofing it. We try it with Toite but he messes around on the ball and we loose it, so we by pass him too now. The only player that collects it successfully from the defence is Anita but he can`t do that all game long. Simpson used to allow Ben Arfa to collect it too once he ran foward and realised he is actually s***. Now Simpson would pass it to an equally s*** player resulting in it going backwards. We have a poor defense and a midfield incapable of playing anything other than a 5 yard backward pass.

 

Two current players and one former player seems to think the manager is responsible for our "direct style" of play.

[TRon]

Tbh, I can't complain about the recruitment strategy. We've got some f***ing great players and for peanuts too. The problem atm, as I see it, lies squarely with Pardew and his failure to integrate these individuals into a decent footballing side. At the end of the day, I don't think anyone can argue otherwise that we need a talented manager to manage this club - not just a man that can deliver results on the pitch, but someone that can 'manage' the owners as well.

 

Really? I think it's fundamentally flawed. The manager doesn't have enough input and the players aren't being bought for what they can bring to the team but what they can bring as a financial asset.

 

Example: Pardew clearly wanted to play 4-4-2 this season, our only signing was a midfielder who can only play in a central three.

 

This is a good point Wullie, but in a perfect world would you rather we signed players to suit Pardewball or got rid of the manager and got somebody who knows how to use Anita, Cabaye, Ben Arfa, Marveaux etc?

 

Do you really need to ask me that?

 

But then you're just as likely to end up with a situation where New 4-3-3 Manager is bought a classic right winger who likes to cross and gets his boots covered in chalk just because he had a low release clause, and he still won't have a centre half because there weren't any going cheap.

 

Fine, but take that to the Ashley thread. In this one I really would like to discuss Pardew and what he's producing with what's at his disposal. Are you saying he didn't have enough money and squad strength made available to him to beat Brighton twice for two years running?

 

Am I saying that?

 

Er... no.

 

well what are you saying?

 

Exactly what I said, that the recruitment strategy is fundamentally flawed.

 

So are you complaining about the players we've bought in this recruitment strategy? Which ones would you rather we had not recruited?

 

 

 

I'd rather we'd recruited a centre half and a right back before this month but we were too penny pinching. We could have the best manager in the world in place but he'd still have been having to manage with Williamson and Simpson all season.

 

But we got beat today by a manager with players far worse than Simpson or Williamson. Which superstar did the Brighton manager have to call on? I won't mention his name because it obviously offends too many people here, but I doubt his chairman spends any more than ours.

 

Yeah I think the issue stretches a bit further than today tbh.

 

Pardew's clearly doing an appalling job because being in a relegation battle, no away wins etc etc is shameful but don't kid yourself that with the players we've had missing (and more importantly, the players who've been forced to step in), the magnificent Gus Poyet - 9th in the laughable Championship, 4 home wins out of 13 games, that's less than Pardew btw - would have us battling for the Champions League spots. He beat Pardew last season too, then finished 10th. Woo! Get him in.

 

I don't watch championship football and both times I saw Brighton play were against Newcastle in the FA Cup. Both times, I was surprised by the quality of the football played by this championship club with average players and thought Poyet could radically change the nufc style of play with the footballers at his disposal.

So, I agree with Tron, Poyet, why not ?

 

 

Poyet isn't popular among the fans because of his association with Dennis Wise is the main reason, although I suspect there's one or two others. I'm not a huge fan of him as a person myself but given our lack of football knowledge in the boardroom I think he might be a safe choice. From what I saw watching Brighton he provides many of the things missing from our current team despite not having good quality footballers at his disposal:

 

1) Passing football

2) Good movement off the ball

3) Good team shape

4) Defensive discipline

 

 

[Rebellious]

I'd say its a fair bet that while will have made mistakes if he'd filled the positions he wanted at the beginning of the season we wouldn't be where we are in the table now.

 

so what specific tactical mitigation(s) has pardew come up with in the last 5 months to cover 2 shit players out of 11 in his team then?  that's what he's paid for and is the sign of a good manager is it not, succeeding in the face of adversity

 

all i can see that he does is throw the same players in week in week out hoping something changes

 

I don`t think no one is claiming he is a world class manager. We have too many weak links to be fair, 2 shit players out of 11, thats a stretch. I would say more like half the team most of this season. I think when we only had 2 shit players in the 11 is about the only time we have actually picked up points, soon as its more than is when we loose. 2 shit players is enough anyway, it takes 1 shit player to cost us a goal and turn a draw into a loss or to loose 1-0.

 

Is there anyway of finding out how many of williamsons clearences actually set up an oppossing teams attacks and how many set up one of ours ? I`m willing to put money on it being something like 10-1.  Most games its 13 against 10 what with Williamson and the refs decisons we have had this year.

[mrmojorisin75]

most of our better players were available at the start of the season, pardew managed them badly and bled points when he shouldn't have done, now the injury crisis has bit and he's paying for that

 

after 10-15 games we should never have been in the position we were

[maze]

I find it amazing that people still support Pardew, I really do and the support for him is bordering on ignorance at this stage.  Even last season when we finished 5th we had problems and I was suspicious of him but got fooled in the 2nd half of the season when he stumbled on a winning formula which actually had us playing a decent style of play.

 

The alarm bells were ringing before we’d even kicked a ball this season when once again, the prick was going on about playing Demba Ba through the middle, even though our best football had been played with him wide left.

 

What was obvious to most in the summer was that we needed to upgrade Simpson and Williamson and that didn’t happen so we all, or most of us knew where our problems were going to come from.  We knew we’d have a central defender who was as weak as p*ss, we knew we would offer no threat from the right and we knew that we would be scruffy up front, again.

 

Last season we got away with a lot because of the easy start that we had, that start had us playing against teams which we could beat and that built of a bit of confidence throughout the squad and that confidence carried us through games where we didn’t perform in yet were still able to get results from.

 

This season, we’ve started off with a formation which most people knew wouldn’t suit the type of players that we had.  We’ve started off playing a direct style of play which meant that we didn’t build up any type of in game style, we just hooped it.  Hoofing it has meant that more often than not we’ve gifted the opposition the possession and we’ve paid for it.  This is the football that Pardew wants and it doesn’t work.

 

The injuries which he's now using to base his excuses around are even more worrying because they show that we've got very little coming through behind our starting 11 and that is shocking.  I think it's also safe to say that the turgid s**** we're serving up with our starting 11 seems to be the same s*** that is being coached at other levels.  None of our younger players look as if they know what to do and that's not down to them, they aren’t getting the required coaching to allow them to come into the first team without looking like aliens.

 

If we keep him and scrape enough points to see us safe we’ll be in exactly the same position next season because that’s what he’s about.  Nothing will change and we’ll be watching s*** football and we’ll be watching a style of play that suits nobody but the manager.

 

Unfortunately if we do sack him, we’re relying on two people who haven’t got a clue what is needed to replace him and that is frightening.  It’s frightening but I would still give it a go in the hope that even those morons could make a right decision, even if only by luck.

 

The way I see it is that we’re relying on luck either way, we’re relying on luck to stay up and we’re relying on luck to bring in a good manager.

 

If we’re lucky and stay up with Pardew, we’re in for more of the same.  If we’re lucky and get a good manager we’ll at least have something to look forward to in the future and that’s better than what we have now.

 

Good post, Mike. Just to add to your comments about Simpsons and Williamson, and the need for upgrades. I litterally went like  when they (Pardew/Ashley/Llambas) claimed that no matter what selling club they approched it was difficult agreeing a fair price... the "right price".(i.e. Debuchy).

 

I mean, what the fuck do they expect other clubs to do? Sell their Tiote's, Cabaye's, Cisse's and so on to us for peanuts. Of course others were painfully aware of the ridiculous low fees we'd gotten Cabaye and Tiote for. There were lots of media forcus on Newcastle, the scout network etc.

 

The thing is, Pardew/Ashley/Llambas should have ignored that and strengthened the side. If they trust Carr's judgement, then why does it matter weather you pay £5, £6 or even £7 million if that player ensures that you build on previous achievements?

 

It's beyond me, and I don't buy in to their lies.  I think Kevin Keegan sums it up perfectly in the interview in my signature.

[Mick]

 

 

I don`t think no one is claiming he is a world class manager. We have too many weak links to be fair, 2 s*** players out of 11, thats a stretch. I would say more like half the team most of this season. I think when we only had 2 s*** players in the 11 is about the only time we have actually picked up points, soon as its more than is when we loose. 2 s*** players is enough anyway, it takes 1 s*** player to cost us a goal and turn a draw into a loss or to loose 1-0.

 

Is there anyway of finding out how many of williamsons clearences actually set up an oppossing teams attacks and how many set up one of ours ? I`m willing to put money on it being something like 10-1.  Most games its 13 against 10 what with Williamson and the refs decisons we have had this year.

 

Why do you blame Williamson for us playing long ball when 3 players think it's Pardew?  If it's down to Williamson, why does Pardew do nothing about it?  I'm sure you've claimed that you run or have run a business, do/did you just let anybody do what they want or do you manage them?

[mrmojorisin75]

if long ball was down to simpson and williamson then the team should be coached to play out of defence without using them, it's not fuckin hard

[Varadi]

 

If we played how we did against Stoke, Man Utd , Arsenal and Everton with better players than Willo, Simpson and Perch do you not think we would have got points ? I do. You could put them in a Barca side and it would all turn to s*** with any manager in charge. If you want to blame someone blame MA for allowing us to go another season with them as first choice players. Added to what I have already listed as possible reasons for our poor points return and there you have your reason.

 

Remember when Willi thought he was Ben arfa for a few games and tried to play it out of defence ? The whole stadium collective s*** themselves and held there breath. Theres your reason for us now hoofing it. How many times have we said Simpson can`t cross or tackle ? Perch is too short to be CB cover. Sammy is going backwards. Every thread lately goes in to detail on how s*** most of our un-injured players are, yet its all Pardews fault we are loosing.

 

Do you seriously think our players want to just hoof the ball?  And, if they do, why does the manager not stop them from just hoofing it?

 

I think that was kind of the point he was making - the manager can say "look Danny and Mike, I want us to play incisive passing football so when you get the ball can you please pass it first time in a precise manner to a nearby player wearing the same colour shirt" If Danny and Mike prove incapable of doing this, what is your next choice?

[Mick]

 

 

I think that was kind of the point he was making - the manager can say "look Danny and Mike, I want us to play incisive passing football so when you get the ball can you please pass it first time in a precise manner to a nearby player wearing the same colour shirt" If Danny and Mike prove incapable of doing this, what is your next choice?

 

If a player doesn't do what he's told you don't play them and if it wasn't down to the manager, why did Ben Arfa, Ba and Cabaye who regularly attend training think it was down to the manager?

[Rebellious]

 

If we played how we did against Stoke, Man Utd , Arsenal and Everton with better players than Willo, Simpson and Perch do you not think we would have got points ? I do. You could put them in a Barca side and it would all turn to s*** with any manager in charge. If you want to blame someone blame MA for allowing us to go another season with them as first choice players. Added to what I have already listed as possible reasons for our poor points return and there you have your reason.

 

Remember when Willi thought he was Ben arfa for a few games and tried to play it out of defence ? The whole stadium collective s*** themselves and held there breath. Theres your reason for us now hoofing it. How many times have we said Simpson can`t cross or tackle ? Perch is too short to be CB cover. Sammy is going backwards. Every thread lately goes in to detail on how s*** most of our un-injured players are, yet its all Pardews fault we are loosing.

 

Do you seriously think our players want to just hoof the ball?  And, if they do, why does the manager not stop them from just hoofing it?

 

I think that was kind of the point he was making - the manager can say "look Danny and Mike, I want us to play incisive passing football so when you get the ball can you please pass it first time in a precise manner to a nearby player wearing the same colour shirt" If Danny and Mike prove incapable of doing this, what is your next choice?

 

Thanks, thats what i`m trying to get at. I also mention Tiote having trouble with this and Jonas this year too. Even Bigi who we have had to rely on so much has been guilty of trying but miss placing 3-4 passes a match.

[thenige]

I certainly don't feel Pardew is blameless, far from it. Everyone could see Shola was utter gash yesterday except seemingly him, but I think getting rid of him would be a recipe for disaster. Especially some of the names being banded about like Di Matteo and Poyet. I do think both managers have potential and prefer overall a better style of football (Di Matteo's Barca exploits excepted), but they've been allowed to do things their way, especially in Poyet's case who has dramatically overhauled his squad.

 

Di Matteo failed at West Brom and got an incredibly strong Chelsea team into a poor run which cost him his job as it was made clear he was never first choice. Every manager seemingly has his ups and downs (except Souness, all down). We had the ups last year from Pardew in regards to clean sheets and final position, now we're clearly on the down. At least give Pardew this window and the preceeding few months to get it right. Getting rid now would most certainly make us that 'laughing stock' some of our fans fear we already are.

[Varadi]

 

 

I think that was kind of the point he was making - the manager can say "look Danny and Mike, I want us to play incisive passing football so when you get the ball can you please pass it first time in a precise manner to a nearby player wearing the same colour shirt" If Danny and Mike prove incapable of doing this, what is your next choice?

 

If a player doesn't do what he's told you don't play them and if it wasn't down to the manager, why did Ben Arfa, Ba and Cabaye who regularly attend training think it was down to the manager?

 

I agree, you don't play them. So, who plays instead?

 

Didn't know about the Ba, HBA and Cabaye thing - where's that from?

[mrmojorisin75]

At least give Pardew this window and the preceeding few months to get it right. Getting rid now would most certainly make us that 'laughing stock' some of our fans fear we already are.

 

there is nothing whatsoever been shown to suggest he has the ability to turn this slide around though, he's mis-managed good players the whole season so the idea is to let him have some more good players is it?

[Rebellious]

 

 

I think that was kind of the point he was making - the manager can say "look Danny and Mike, I want us to play incisive passing football so when you get the ball can you please pass it first time in a precise manner to a nearby player wearing the same colour shirt" If Danny and Mike prove incapable of doing this, what is your next choice?

 

If a player doesn't do what he's told you don't play them and if it wasn't down to the manager, why did Ben Arfa, Ba and Cabaye who regularly attend training think it was down to the manager?

 

Who do you play there instead ? Is it Pardews fault we have no one to play instead of Williamson, we have tried Perch, Raylor, Tavernier and Simpson there, none of them have made any improvement.  Your reply would be valid if Pardew persisted with these players whilst keeping Debuchy and Taylor on the bench and lets be honest Taylor is still not the answer.

 

[Guest bimpy474]

I certainly don't feel Pardew is blameless, far from it. Everyone could see Shola was utter gash yesterday except seemingly him, but I think getting rid of him would be a recipe for disaster. Especially some of the names being banded about like Di Matteo and Poyet. I do think both managers have potential and prefer overall a better style of football (Di Matteo's Barca exploits excepted), but they've been allowed to do things their way, especially in Poyet's case who ha dramatically overhauled his squad.

 

Di Matteo failed at West Brom and got an incredibly strong Chelsea team into a poor run which cost him his job. Every manager seemingly has his ups and downs (except Souness, all down). We had the ups last year from Pardew in regards to clean sheets and final position, now we're clearly on the down. At least give Pardew this window and the preceeding few months to get it right. Getting rid now would most certainly make us that 'laughing stock' some of our fans fear we already are.

 

All of what you say is fair enough, but if we were playing decent football and getting beat, i'm willing to accept the ups and downs.

 

We are playing as worse as i can remember, with a manager who is a defeatist as you can get. It's not just about the results, its the woeful chances we barely make, the ridiculous set penises, which he deserves the sack for, in coming up with absolutely nothing in 2 years of being manager, complete joke of a manager where they are concerned.

 

His tactics and formations with the players he has beggar belief. He isn't good enough and never will be. I hope i'm proven wrong as the club will be doing well and thats all that matters to me,

[TRon]

 

 

I think that was kind of the point he was making - the manager can say "look Danny and Mike, I want us to play incisive passing football so when you get the ball can you please pass it first time in a precise manner to a nearby player wearing the same colour shirt" If Danny and Mike prove incapable of doing this, what is your next choice?

 

If a player doesn't do what he's told you don't play them and if it wasn't down to the manager, why did Ben Arfa, Ba and Cabaye who regularly attend training think it was down to the manager?

 

Who do you play there instead ? Is it Pardews fault we have no one to play instead of Williamson, we have tried Perch, Raylor, Tavernier and Simpson there, none of them have made any improvement.  Your reply would be valid if Pardew persisted with these players whilst keeping Debuchy and Taylor on the bench and lets be honest Taylor is still not the answer.

 

 

Do you have any idea how Poyet managed to get Brighton playing passing football despite having footballers who are Championship standard?

[Rebellious]

At least give Pardew this window and the preceeding few months to get it right. Getting rid now would most certainly make us that 'laughing stock' some of our fans fear we already are.

 

there is nothing whatsoever been shown to suggest he has the ability to turn this slide around though, he's mis-managed good players the whole season so the idea is to let him have some more good players is it?

 

I think he has turned it around from Stoke onwards, the results just havn`t reflected it due to all sorts of different reasons, most of them being individual errors, but then his hands have been tied as he can`t drop anyone if it means replacing them with someone just as bad.

[Zach]

At least give Pardew this window and the preceeding few months to get it right. Getting rid now would most certainly make us that 'laughing stock' some of our fans fear we already are.

 

there is nothing whatsoever been shown to suggest he has the ability to turn this slide around though, he's mis-managed good players the whole season so the idea is to let him have some more good players is it?

 

I think he has turned it around from Stoke onwards, the results just havn`t reflected it due to all sorts of different reasons, most of them being individual errors, but then his hands have been tied as he can`t drop anyone if it means replacing them with someone just as bad.

 

The results have been poor because our defending has been shocking (aswell as other things). In my opinion that's down to Pardew first and foremost.

[Rebellious]

I certainly don't feel Pardew is blameless, far from it. Everyone could see Shola was utter gash yesterday except seemingly him, but I think getting rid of him would be a recipe for disaster. Especially some of the names being banded about like Di Matteo and Poyet. I do think both managers have potential and prefer overall a better style of football (Di Matteo's Barca exploits excepted), but they've been allowed to do things their way, especially in Poyet's case who ha dramatically overhauled his squad.

 

Di Matteo failed at West Brom and got an incredibly strong Chelsea team into a poor run which cost him his job. Every manager seemingly has his ups and downs (except Souness, all down). We had the ups last year from Pardew in regards to clean sheets and final position, now we're clearly on the down. At least give Pardew this window and the preceeding few months to get it right. Getting rid now would most certainly make us that 'laughing stock' some of our fans fear we already are.

 

All of what you say is fair enough, but if we were playing decent football and getting beat, i'm willing to accept the ups and downs.

 

We are playing as worse as i can remember, with a manager who is a defeatist as you can get. It's not just about the results, its the woeful chances we barely make, the ridiculous set penises, which he deserves the sack for, in coming up with absolutely nothing in 2 years of being manager, complete joke of a manager where they are concerned.

 

His tactics and formations with the players he has beggar belief. He isn't good enough and never will be. I hope i'm proven wrong as the club will be doing well and thats all that matters to me,

 

The stats prove different. Against Arsenal we made 11 shots with a higher accruacy than Arsenal. Against Man Utd both teams had 15 shots, our accruacy was higher again. Against Qpr we had 21 shots against there 4. Against Man city 17 shots each. I could go on. It suggests to me we have the worst defence on the day.

[Guest bimpy474]

I certainly don't feel Pardew is blameless, far from it. Everyone could see Shola was utter gash yesterday except seemingly him, but I think getting rid of him would be a recipe for disaster. Especially some of the names being banded about like Di Matteo and Poyet. I do think both managers have potential and prefer overall a better style of football (Di Matteo's Barca exploits excepted), but they've been allowed to do things their way, especially in Poyet's case who ha dramatically overhauled his squad.

 

Di Matteo failed at West Brom and got an incredibly strong Chelsea team into a poor run which cost him his job. Every manager seemingly has his ups and downs (except Souness, all down). We had the ups last year from Pardew in regards to clean sheets and final position, now we're clearly on the down. At least give Pardew this window and the preceeding few months to get it right. Getting rid now would most certainly make us that 'laughing stock' some of our fans fear we already are.

 

All of what you say is fair enough, but if we were playing decent football and getting beat, i'm willing to accept the ups and downs.

 

We are playing as worse as i can remember, with a manager who is a defeatist as you can get. It's not just about the results, its the woeful chances we barely make, the ridiculous set penises, which he deserves the sack for, in coming up with absolutely nothing in 2 years of being manager, complete joke of a manager where they are concerned.

 

His tactics and formations with the players he has beggar belief. He isn't good enough and never will be. I hope i'm proven wrong as the club will be doing well and thats all that matters to me,

 

The stats prove different. Against Arsenal we made 11 shots with a higher accruacy than Arsenal. Against Man Utd both teams had 15 shots, our accruacy was higher again. Against Qpr we had 21 shots against there 4. Against Man city 17 shots each. I could go on. It suggests to me we have the worst defence on the day.

 

Stats mean feck all, most of those shots were from outside the box and straight at the GK or just plain poor efforts. The Man Utd and Arsenal games did show an improvement going forward but the defence well....

 

I go with my eyes and i'm watching a team that has no pattern of play, a lack of movement that's laughable, set peices that are embarrassing and as an opposition are easy to deal with. Every time we have a free kick anywhere near the halfway line i just die a little watching our GK come forward to hoof it 50 yards, see set peices for why i die a little.

 

I hate long ball and if you are going to use stats, then these are great aren't they, we are the team that has used the most long balls and the least short passes. Crap football isn't what i like to see.

[TRon]

Brighton played better football despite having Championship players.

 

Keep ignoring it.

[Guest bimpy474]

Brighton played better football despite having Championship players.

 

Keep ignoring it.

 

100% spot on  ......head buried in sand will not work.

[sparkzter]

Brighton played better football despite having Championship players.

 

Keep ignoring it.

 

this exactly

[Dave]

When the injured players come back into the side I'm sure results will be better. If they're not, I'm sure it will be because they're rusty.

 

The point is that yesterday isn't representative of every game this season, far from it. Most of the time there have been two or three of his first choice eleven out, and that's not extraordinary at all.

 

The players he has to pick from is a significant problem, but not the whole story by any means. If it was, that in itself would be a hugely damning indictment on Pardew's ability. It's effectively saying that he can't cope with the kind of injury and suspension problems that every other manager barring three or four has to.