Alan Pardew

[Mick]

I'll have a go then.

 

 

Moving to 4-4-2 at the begining of this season... Attempt to accommodate two proven, potent attacking threats  We did that at the end of the previous season when we went 4-3-3 and played hte best football we have under Pardew.  He didn't need to try and re-invent the wheel with such disastrous effect.  By reverting to 4-4-2 we’ve turned a player who was on close to a goal a game in to one who relies on his arse for goals and we’ve lost 50% of our proven goal scorers.

Bypassing midfield... Unfortunate result of not playing very well in the process The result of not playing well or the reason we're not playing well?

Cisse is better on the wing than through the middle... Better on the wing if he's struggling for form while Ba is banging them in, arguably.  Cisse was banging them in before we changed the way that we play, we moved Cisse for Ba and the result is that we have a player who isn't scoring and have lost the other one.  I have no doubt that if Ba had played on the left he'd still be here because Chelsea whouldn't have been interested in him.

Shola up front is a good idea... Hmmm yeah

Cabaye is a better footballer when the ball is launched over his head... See 'bypassing the midfield' See bypassing the midfield

Jonas is going to perform during a match when everybody can see that he's not doing it... He did it before. Understandable you'd stick with him through a bad patch?  I'm not sure how you define a bad patch, he's been poor for most of the season.

Williamson is good enough to play half the season in central defence... He was good enough to do it last year He wasn't good enough last year and that's why we needed a replacement in the summer.

Spending 4 out of 5 days a week on defence is improving performances....not sure where you get that so won't comment Carver said that Pardew workked on the defence for 4 days and he worked on the attack for the other day.

We should restrict a Championship team for 70 minutes before trying to get something from the game... Think the idea was not to injure or ban any more first teamers. Many on here clearly agreed that was the priority  It's not the first time he's come out with that shit, doing it against a Championship team is worse then when he does it in the Premiership, which is bad enough.

Virtually playing 2 teams a week then complaining that we have no continuity

Virtually playing 2 teams a week then complain that our players are tired... The real pisser with midweek games is lack of preparation time and being deprived of the ability to focus as a group on the upcoming league match. Rotating your side does little to assuage that

 

 

 

I'm playing Devil's advocate to a certain extent, motivated by what I see as hysterical, blinkered pessimism in some quarters. I think if your opinion is that Pardew (or pretty much any professional manager with very rare exceptions) is an absolutely hopeless numbskull incapable of basic footballing observations, the likelihood is that you're completely wrong and that there is a little more to the situation than you think.

 

Of course you're playing devils advocate Are you Pardew or the clubs spin doctor?  Just to make my position clear, I think Pardew is clueless, what that makes me to you doesn't make the slightest difference.  The fact that you appear to be either sucked in by the shite the manager spouts or you're happy with the current performance of the club is mind boggling.  Football is a competitive sport and this season we've gone massively backwards.  I can't work out the thought process which would lead anybody to be satisfied.

[Guest tollemache]

So the only options are:

 

1. Run the club tight as f*** like Mike Ashley.

2. Run the club irresponsible as f*** like Freddy Shepherd.

 

Righto.

 

No. It comes down to whether you think Ashley is being tight as fuck, or merely sensible. "Tight as fuck" shouldn't come into it anyway; the club makes enough money to compete and if Ashley is running it responsibly within that budget, we will do ok.

[Guest bimpy474]

Totally agree about set pieces btw... I mean... Bring in a set piece coach if you need to. It's just weird how careless we are there

 

I find it baffling that a manager who has been in the game as player and boss for so long, is so inept at sorting them out. Completely baffled.

[Guest tollemache]

I'll have a go then.

 

 

Moving to 4-4-2 at the begining of this season... Attempt to accommodate two proven, potent attacking threats  We did that at the end of the previous season when we went 4-3-3 and played hte best football we have under Pardew.  He didn't need to try and re-invent the wheel with such disastrous effect.  By reverting to 4-4-2 we’ve turned a player who was on close to a goal a game in to one who relies on his arse for goals and we’ve lost 50% of our proven goal scorers.

Bypassing midfield... Unfortunate result of not playing very well in the process The result of not playing well or the reason we're not playing well?

Cisse is better on the wing than through the middle... Better on the wing if he's struggling for form while Ba is banging them in, arguably.  Cisse was banging them in before we changed the way that we play, we moved Cisse for Ba and the result is that we have a player who isn't scoring and have lost the other one.  I have no doubt that if Ba had played on the left he'd still be here because Chelsea whouldn't have been interested in him.

Shola up front is a good idea... Hmmm yeah

Cabaye is a better footballer when the ball is launched over his head... See 'bypassing the midfield' See bypassing the midfield

Jonas is going to perform during a match when everybody can see that he's not doing it... He did it before. Understandable you'd stick with him through a bad patch?  I'm not sure how you define a bad patch, he's been poor for most of the season.

Williamson is good enough to play half the season in central defence... He was good enough to do it last year He wasn't good enough last year and that's why we needed a replacement in the summer.

Spending 4 out of 5 days a week on defence is improving performances....not sure where you get that so won't comment Carver said that Pardew workked on the defence for 4 days and he worked on the attack for the other day.

We should restrict a Championship team for 70 minutes before trying to get something from the game... Think the idea was not to injure or ban any more first teamers. Many on here clearly agreed that was the priority  It's not the first time he's come out with that s***, doing it against a Championship team is worse then when he does it in the Premiership, which is bad enough.

Virtually playing 2 teams a week then complaining that we have no continuity

Virtually playing 2 teams a week then complain that our players are tired... The real pisser with midweek games is lack of preparation time and being deprived of the ability to focus as a group on the upcoming league match. Rotating your side does little to assuage that

 

 

 

I'm playing Devil's advocate to a certain extent, motivated by what I see as hysterical, blinkered pessimism in some quarters. I think if your opinion is that Pardew (or pretty much any professional manager with very rare exceptions) is an absolutely hopeless numbskull incapable of basic footballing observations, the likelihood is that you're completely wrong and that there is a little more to the situation than you think.

 

Of course you're playing devils advocate Are you Pardew or the clubs spin doctor?  Just to make my position clear, I think Pardew is clueless, what that makes me to you doesn't make the slightest difference.  The fact that you appear to be either sucked in by the s**** the manager spouts or you're happy with the current performance of the club is mind boggling.  Football is a competitive sport and this season we've gone massively backwards.  I can't work out the thought process which would lead anybody to be satisfied.

 

It's easy, I just think about periods of time of longer than half a season. Longer than one season even! Imagine!

[Guest bimpy474]

I'll have a go then.

 

 

Moving to 4-4-2 at the begining of this season... Attempt to accommodate two proven, potent attacking threats  We did that at the end of the previous season when we went 4-3-3 and played hte best football we have under Pardew.  He didn't need to try and re-invent the wheel with such disastrous effect.  By reverting to 4-4-2 we’ve turned a player who was on close to a goal a game in to one who relies on his arse for goals and we’ve lost 50% of our proven goal scorers.

Bypassing midfield... Unfortunate result of not playing very well in the process The result of not playing well or the reason we're not playing well?

Cisse is better on the wing than through the middle... Better on the wing if he's struggling for form while Ba is banging them in, arguably.  Cisse was banging them in before we changed the way that we play, we moved Cisse for Ba and the result is that we have a player who isn't scoring and have lost the other one.  I have no doubt that if Ba had played on the left he'd still be here because Chelsea whouldn't have been interested in him.

Shola up front is a good idea... Hmmm yeah

Cabaye is a better footballer when the ball is launched over his head... See 'bypassing the midfield' See bypassing the midfield

Jonas is going to perform during a match when everybody can see that he's not doing it... He did it before. Understandable you'd stick with him through a bad patch?  I'm not sure how you define a bad patch, he's been poor for most of the season.

Williamson is good enough to play half the season in central defence... He was good enough to do it last year He wasn't good enough last year and that's why we needed a replacement in the summer.

Spending 4 out of 5 days a week on defence is improving performances....not sure where you get that so won't comment Carver said that Pardew workked on the defence for 4 days and he worked on the attack for the other day.

We should restrict a Championship team for 70 minutes before trying to get something from the game... Think the idea was not to injure or ban any more first teamers. Many on here clearly agreed that was the priority  It's not the first time he's come out with that shit, doing it against a Championship team is worse then when he does it in the Premiership, which is bad enough.

Virtually playing 2 teams a week then complaining that we have no continuity

Virtually playing 2 teams a week then complain that our players are tired... The real pisser with midweek games is lack of preparation time and being deprived of the ability to focus as a group on the upcoming league match. Rotating your side does little to assuage that

 

 

 

I'm playing Devil's advocate to a certain extent, motivated by what I see as hysterical, blinkered pessimism in some quarters. I think if your opinion is that Pardew (or pretty much any professional manager with very rare exceptions) is an absolutely hopeless numbskull incapable of basic footballing observations, the likelihood is that you're completely wrong and that there is a little more to the situation than you think.

 

Of course you're playing devils advocate Are you Pardew or the clubs spin doctor?  Just to make my position clear, I think Pardew is clueless, what that makes me to you doesn't make the slightest difference.  The fact that you appear to be either sucked in by the shite the manager spouts or you're happy with the current performance of the club is mind boggling.  Football is a competitive sport and this season we've gone massively backwards.  I can't work out the thought process which would lead anybody to be satisfied.

 

[Jack Flash]

So I suppose I'd tend to back Ian W to an extent. Perhaps go a little further and speculate, to the possible agreement of Interpolic, that it is possible that all of this stems from something as trivial as a debate over whether or not to accommodate Demba Ba. I think a couple of injuries and a nagging issue or two like that really can be enough to tip a team over the edge. And when those couple of injuries include the two key creative reference points in your side... Problems.

 

As you'll possibly have noticed by now, I'm a lot more pro-Ashley and pro-Pardew than most because I see signs of what I think is exactly the right way to run a football club emerging after years of embarrassing Shepherd madness, and I'm loath to write that prospect off until the grim death because it is exactly what the club has been crying out for for a long, long time. I'll forgive a run of shitty form, a dud transfer window, a bit of hoofball, a baffling decision and even a slightly uninspirational manager quite happily if it means we end up a soundly-run, upwardly mobile outfit in a few years and I can see it happening. Look at the calibre of our best XI for Christ's sake. If we somehow get it wrong and go down I'll be heartbroken because it will most likely be ripped apart but I think if you can't see that this administration is our best chance for ages at being a proper club you need your head checking. Whatever they're doing wrong, they're doing a lot right. I'm waffling and my pint is getting warm so cheers

 

Yeah me too. But we have an owner that just don´t care about the success, and a manager that just isn´t good enough to take us to the top. That makes it all even more frustrating because I agree that in many ways we do have a good structure. We would just need a owner that would care a little bit more, and a manager that is a little bit better.

 

Who put the structure in place? The owner. Why? Because he wants his club to do well as a business. What is the best way, and arguably the only way, to bring that about? If the club is successful.

 

Regardless of whether or not Ashley gives a flying f*** about the football (and reputedly he does), he's not only heavily incentivised to make us a successful club, he's taken all of the steps towards that that you say you appreciate. In this case, saying that the structure is great apart from the owner makes no sense.

 

Ashley etc need to learn how to strike a balance between business sense and football sense. It's pointless having a well run business financially if it can't compete in the marketplace. It'd be a massive step forward for us if they could do that.

 

We just bought France's first choice right back? In what sense are we not competing in the marketplace? If you mean we're not splashing the same cash as clubs in stronger positions than us, not paying whatever it takes to get our targets, then you do not want the best for the club and you should consider lobbying for the return of effing Freddie Shepherd

 

We've just lost our top scorer? The point is we're only "splashing" the cash other teams give us and, as that's dried up considerably since the Carroll money has been spent, our incoming transfers have been minimal.

 

Business sense + football sense pls

[Darth Crooks]

So the only options are:

 

1. Run the club tight as fuck like Mike Ashley.

2. Run the club irresponsible as fuck like Freddy Shepherd.

 

Righto.

 

Piffling over 500,000-1 million over Mariappa and Debuchy in the last couple of windows for instance, could've arguably cost us valuable squad strength. I think everone understands the merits of a more austere model than those before but let's not pretend he's regularly keeping the squad in the ost healthy of positions as best he can. He's a businessman (of acumen) who has seen value in owning a football club financially and being as frugal as he can.

[Guest tollemache]

Your idea of football sense seems to be "spending more money" then. And we wouldn't have had that top scorer had it not been for the clause under which he left, so to interpret that in terms of lack of ambition is daft. Clearly we'd have kept him if it had been possible.

[ATB]

I don´t even think we have used all of the "Carroll-money".

[Jack Flash]

Your idea of football sense seems to be "spending more money" then. And we wouldn't have had that top scorer had it not been for the clause under which he left, so to interpret that in terms of lack of ambition is daft. Clearly we'd have kept him if it had been possible.

 

"Spend money when it will greatly benefit us" yes. Like last Summer when we could have pushed on and aimed higher with some ambition and a modest outlay. But we're 15th and in a relegation fight now but the balance sheet looks healthy so who cares?

 

I realise we're going in circles here so if you can't see the middle ground that Dave is pointing out then you're on the payroll.

[Guest malandro]

I'll have a go then.

 

 

Moving to 4-4-2 at the begining of this season... Attempt to accommodate two proven, potent attacking threats  We did that at the end of the previous season when we went 4-3-3 and played hte best football we have under Pardew.  He didn't need to try and re-invent the wheel with such disastrous effect.  By reverting to 4-4-2 we’ve turned a player who was on close to a goal a game in to one who relies on his arse for goals and we’ve lost 50% of our proven goal scorers.

Bypassing midfield... Unfortunate result of not playing very well in the process The result of not playing well or the reason we're not playing well?

Cisse is better on the wing than through the middle... Better on the wing if he's struggling for form while Ba is banging them in, arguably.  Cisse was banging them in before we changed the way that we play, we moved Cisse for Ba and the result is that we have a player who isn't scoring and have lost the other one.  I have no doubt that if Ba had played on the left he'd still be here because Chelsea whouldn't have been interested in him.

Shola up front is a good idea... Hmmm yeah

Cabaye is a better footballer when the ball is launched over his head... See 'bypassing the midfield' See bypassing the midfield

Jonas is going to perform during a match when everybody can see that he's not doing it... He did it before. Understandable you'd stick with him through a bad patch?  I'm not sure how you define a bad patch, he's been poor for most of the season.

Williamson is good enough to play half the season in central defence... He was good enough to do it last year He wasn't good enough last year and that's why we needed a replacement in the summer.

Spending 4 out of 5 days a week on defence is improving performances....not sure where you get that so won't comment Carver said that Pardew workked on the defence for 4 days and he worked on the attack for the other day.

We should restrict a Championship team for 70 minutes before trying to get something from the game... Think the idea was not to injure or ban any more first teamers. Many on here clearly agreed that was the priority  It's not the first time he's come out with that s***, doing it against a Championship team is worse then when he does it in the Premiership, which is bad enough.

Virtually playing 2 teams a week then complaining that we have no continuity

Virtually playing 2 teams a week then complain that our players are tired... The real pisser with midweek games is lack of preparation time and being deprived of the ability to focus as a group on the upcoming league match. Rotating your side does little to assuage that

 

 

 

I'm playing Devil's advocate to a certain extent, motivated by what I see as hysterical, blinkered pessimism in some quarters. I think if your opinion is that Pardew (or pretty much any professional manager with very rare exceptions) is an absolutely hopeless numbskull incapable of basic footballing observations, the likelihood is that you're completely wrong and that there is a little more to the situation than you think.

 

Of course you're playing devils advocate Are you Pardew or the clubs spin doctor?  Just to make my position clear, I think Pardew is clueless, what that makes me to you doesn't make the slightest difference.  The fact that you appear to be either sucked in by the s**** the manager spouts or you're happy with the current performance of the club is mind boggling.  Football is a competitive sport and this season we've gone massively backwards.  I can't work out the thought process which would lead anybody to be satisfied.

 

It's easy, I just think about periods of time of longer than half a season. Longer than one season even! Imagine!

 

What like five seasons? How far have we moved on since MA took over.

 

Lower in the league - yes.

Significantly more debt - yes

Doing better in the cups - no

Attendances up - no

 

[Darth Crooks]

Your idea of football sense seems to be "spending more money" then. And we wouldn't have had that top scorer had it not been for the clause under which he left, so to interpret that in terms of lack of ambition is daft. Clearly we'd have kept him if it had been possible.

 

Yes; but only to an extent and when appropriate. I find it hard to believe that the majority of the Caroll money has been spent to the degree that's its had a truly effective impact. I don't see how you can set your sights at top ten, finish comfortably in the top 6 and not see that as a platform to invest. Not by daft amounts and stupid contracts a la Shepherd but just by showing a more assertive stance on transfer activity.

 

 

 

[Mick]

So I suppose I'd tend to back Ian W to an extent. Perhaps go a little further and speculate, to the possible agreement of Interpolic, that it is possible that all of this stems from something as trivial as a debate over whether or not to accommodate Demba Ba. I think a couple of injuries and a nagging issue or two like that really can be enough to tip a team over the edge. And when those couple of injuries include the two key creative reference points in your side... Problems.

 

As you'll possibly have noticed by now, I'm a lot more pro-Ashley and pro-Pardew than most because I see signs of what I think is exactly the right way to run a football club emerging after years of embarrassing Shepherd madness, and I'm loath to write that prospect off until the grim death because it is exactly what the club has been crying out for for a long, long time. I'll forgive a run of shitty form, a dud transfer window, a bit of hoofball, a baffling decision and even a slightly uninspirational manager quite happily if it means we end up a soundly-run, upwardly mobile outfit in a few years and I can see it happening. Look at the calibre of our best XI for Christ's sake. If we somehow get it wrong and go down I'll be heartbroken because it will most likely be ripped apart but I think if you can't see that this administration is our best chance for ages at being a proper club you need your head checking. Whatever they're doing wrong, they're doing a lot right. I'm waffling and my pint is getting warm so cheers

 

More spin without foundation.  Ashley has run the club in at least an embarrassing way as Shepherd did, the headlines since Ashley bought the club have been at least as bad as the headlines before.

[Dave]

So the only options are:

 

1. Run the club tight as f*** like Mike Ashley.

2. Run the club irresponsible as f*** like Freddy Shepherd.

 

Righto.

 

No. It comes down to whether you think Ashley is being tight as fuck, or merely sensible. "Tight as fuck" shouldn't come into it anyway; the club makes enough money to compete and if Ashley is running it responsibly within that budget, we will do ok.

 

Here's a question. If our scouting team are so talented and the considerations the club take when deciding to invest in a player so bulletproof, why don't the club trust them enough to put up the requisite money in the transfer market?

 

We allegedly wanted Debuchy, a centre half and a striker in the summer, but wouldn't spend the money required to get any of them. As a direct result of this (and the manager agrees) we're two points above the relegation zone over halfway through the season, after finishing 5th last time out.

 

I genuinely believed the Cisse signing was a sign that we were prepared to move in the right direction. Not simply because he cost more, but because we were already doing well. The summer showed once again that they value money in the bank over results on the pitch. It's the same reason that we're willing to jeopardise up to nine massively important points in January by continuing to play Williamson when he's not been good enough all season, and continuing to go without a replacement for our top scorer who's been widely expected to leave for months thanks to a clause we had no control over.

[Guest bimpy474]

Your idea of football sense seems to be "spending more money" then. And we wouldn't have had that top scorer had it not been for the clause under which he left, so to interpret that in terms of lack of ambition is daft. Clearly we'd have kept him if it had been possible.

 

Yes; but only to an extent and when appropriate. I find it hard to believe that the majority of the Caroll money has been spent to the degree that's its had a truly effective impact. I don't see how you can set your sights at top ten, finish comfortably in the top 6 and not see that as a platform to invest. Not by daft amounts and stupid contracts a la Shepherd but just by showing a more assertive stance on transfer activity.

 

 

 

 

And what makes even less sense is, the new TV deal comes in effect next season. If there was ever a time to invest in the team to ensure progress, then last summer was it.

[Darth Crooks]

The way the name change was handled smacks of disregard for the fans and best for the football/club side of things; and cheap promotion of his own interests.

[Guest bimpy474]

did everyone catch the "Cabaye will be like a new signing" from Pardew?!

 

Its gone beyond ludicrous now. Its full blown farce

 

Tbf a lot of managers use that term, cliche central that like.

[Guest tollemache]

Your idea of football sense seems to be "spending more money" then. And we wouldn't have had that top scorer had it not been for the clause under which he left, so to interpret that in terms of lack of ambition is daft. Clearly we'd have kept him if it had been possible.

 

Yes; but only to an extent and when appropriate. I find it hard to believe that the majority of the Caroll money has been spent to the degree that's its had a truly effective impact. I don't see how you can set your sights at top ten, finish comfortably in the top 6 and not see that as a platform to invest. Not by daft amounts and stupid contracts a la Shepherd but just by showing a more assertive stance on transfer activity.

 

That's exactly what you don't do, surely? Because you know you've overachieved and can't really bank on sustaining a serious assault on the top 4

[Mick]

 

 

It's easy, I just think about periods of time of longer than half a season. Longer than one season even! Imagine!

 

You can't see into the future, can you? 

[Dave]

I feel a Portsmouth or Leeds United citation in the air.

[johnnypd]

tollemache's the one who thought Souness had the right idea as NUFC manager and it only went wrong because he was unlucky with injuries.

 

That's good enough reason to completely disregard anything else he has to say on football matters. Sorry. 

[Mick]

 

We just bought France's first choice right back? In what sense are we not competing in the marketplace? If you mean we're not splashing the same cash as clubs in stronger positions than us, not paying whatever it takes to get our targets, then you do not want the best for the club and you should consider lobbying for the return of effing Freddie Shepherd

 

We needed Debuchy in the summer, we also needed a forward and centre half, not getting those players has contributed to our current position and because of that has cost us money.  Sometimes you have to speculate to accumulate and we've failed miserably at that this season.

 

We’ve even lost the player we tried to base our team selection around. 

[Guest tollemache]

So the only options are:

 

1. Run the club tight as f*** like Mike Ashley.

2. Run the club irresponsible as f*** like Freddy Shepherd.

 

Righto.

 

No. It comes down to whether you think Ashley is being tight as f***, or merely sensible. "Tight as f***" shouldn't come into it anyway; the club makes enough money to compete and if Ashley is running it responsibly within that budget, we will do ok.

 

Here's a question. If our scouting team are so talented and the considerations the club take when deciding to invest in a player so bulletproof, why don't the club trust them enough to put up the requisite money in the transfer market?

 

We allegedly wanted Debuchy, a centre half and a striker in the summer, but wouldn't spend the money required to get any of them. As a direct result of this (and the manager agrees) we're two points above the relegation zone over halfway through the season, after finishing 5th last time out.

 

I genuinely believed the Cisse signing was a sign that we were prepared to move in the right direction. Not simply because he cost more, but because we were already doing well. The summer showed once again that they value money in the bank over results on the pitch. It's the same reason that we're willing to jeopardise up to nine massively important points in January by continuing to play Williamson when he's not been good enough all season, and continuing to go without a replacement for our top scorer who's been widely expected to leave for months thanks to a clause we had no control over.

 

Depends what you mean by the requisite money, as opposed to too much money. They backed the scouting department by going in for him.

 

Again, the right direction in your book just seems to be spending more money. And how many million do you think you'd recommend lashing out on getting a centre half over the line right now, to play in these three January games?

[Guest tollemache]

tollemache's the one who thought Souness had the right idea as NUFC manager and it only went wrong because he was unlucky with injuries.

 

That's good enough reason to completely disregard anything else he has to say on football matters. Sorry. 

 

I said I felt sorry for him because his plan A looked great for 20 minutes and it was heartbreaking the way injuries fucked it straight away, never to be seen again. Didn't say he didn't do anything else wrong!

[Dave]

So you didn't read it. Okay, never mind.