Alan Pardew

[Guest bimpy474]

"I don't think there's a problem with the playing style"

 

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/newcastle-united/nufc-news/2013/01/10/nufc-boss-pardew-insists-he-can-handle-the-heat-72703-32578736/

 

What a fucking clueless idiotic numbnut. Wonder why i'm so worried about us.

[mrmojorisin75]

sat with a glass half full mate who won't have anything said about pardew (believes it's all down to injuries and squad depth), he wheeled out a piece of paper and pen and started showing me formations, how we've got good depth in certain areas and how with a couple of signings we will be decent next season...the formation he'd play etc.

 

i was shaking with rage because he was right, it looks great on paper, but on the piece of paper he failed to draw the fact that pardew is the only manager in the known universe who would play shola and that our players are clearly not coached to play together in any kind of attacking sense

 

he was all ready to make excuses for norwich and when we looked at it we could be fielding: krul, debuchy, perch, colo, santon, bigi, anita, marveaux, obertan, cisse + 1 more who for me would be campbell (intentionally left out willo and shola)

 

that team on paper should be able to go to norwich and beat them, but i'd be willing to bet that most of us here wouldn't raise an eyebrow if we go there, concede within a few minutes and capitulate to a 4-0 loss

 

that's where pardew has taken us

 

 

[Parky]

Norwich will play us off the park. Can't see anything else hapenning.

[Lush Vlad]

Shola did play when he was on during that match tbf.  Though Williamson ahead of Saylor.

 

Not quite sure why I am sticking up for him here, but hadn't Taylor only just returned from injury?  Also, Cisse had started the season terribly and he was probably hoping Shola was going to be the mackem slayer once again.

[Guest bimpy474]

sat with a glass half full mate who won't have anything said about pardew (believes it's all down to injuries and squad depth), he wheeled out a piece of paper and pen and started showing me formations, how we've got good depth in certain areas and how with a couple of signings we will be decent next season...the formation he'd play etc.

 

i was shaking with rage because he was right, it looks great on paper, but on the piece of paper he failed to draw the fact that pardew is the only manager in the known universe who would play shola and that our players are clearly not coached to play together in any kind of attacking sense

 

he was all ready to make excuses for norwich and when we looked at it we could be fielding: krul, debuchy, perch, colo, santon, bigi, anita, marveaux, obertan, cisse + 1 more who for me would be campbell (intentionally left out willo and shola)

 

that team on paper should be able to go to norwich and beat them, but i'd be willing to bet that most of us here wouldn't raise an eyebrow if we go there, concede within a few minutes and capitulate to a 4-0 loss

 

that's where pardew has taken us

 

 

 

[Guest bimpy474]

Shola did play when he was on during that match tbf.  Though Williamson ahead of Saylor.

 

Not quite sure why I am sticking up for him here, but hadn't Taylor only just returned from injury?  Also, Cisse had started the season terribly and he was probably hoping Shola was going to be the mackem slayer once again.

 

Didn't Sky and others try to make out Saylor was dropped because of the "i'll never play for Sunderland" story Saylor did in a paper.

[Parky]

Without Hatem our attacking ideas are basically hit and miss and would have been worse if Marveux hadn't stepped up a gear. There simply is little cohesion or drilling in our attacking play apart from the usual things all sides do in autopilot.

[Disco]

Shola did play when he was on during that match tbf.  Though Williamson ahead of Saylor.

 

Not quite sure why I am sticking up for him here, but hadn't Taylor only just returned from injury?  Also, Cisse had started the season terribly and he was probably hoping Shola was going to be the mackem slayer once again.

 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Without Hatem our attacking ideas are basically hit and miss and would have been worse if Marveux hadn't stepped up a gear. There simply is little cohesion or drilling in our attacking play apart from the usual things all sides do in autopilot.

 

And without Cabaye, which is very important.

[afar]

sat with a glass half full mate who won't have anything said about pardew (believes it's all down to injuries and squad depth), he wheeled out a piece of paper and pen and started showing me formations, how we've got good depth in certain areas and how with a couple of signings we will be decent next season...the formation he'd play etc.

 

i was shaking with rage because he was right, it looks great on paper, but on the piece of paper he failed to draw the fact that pardew is the only manager in the known universe who would play shola and that our players are clearly not coached to play together in any kind of attacking sense

 

he was all ready to make excuses for norwich and when we looked at it we could be fielding: krul, debuchy, perch, colo, santon, bigi, anita, marveaux, obertan, cisse + 1 more who for me would be campbell (intentionally left out willo and shola)

 

that team on paper should be able to go to norwich and beat them, but i'd be willing to bet that most of us here wouldn't raise an eyebrow if we go there, concede within a few minutes and capitulate to a 4-0 loss

 

that's where pardew has taken us

 

 

 

Spot on, on paper we should be fine, even with the injuries we have, picking up 7 to 9 points from these next 3 games on paper should be no problem, however Pardew has taken us to a place where that scenario seems highly far fetched and getting one win and two losses is the most likely outcome.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I see what you're saying, but losses breed losses and lower confidence as well. Players who 'should be fine on paper' can start to look terrible when they're on a really bad run. Obviously it's Pardew's job to turn it around like.

[ATB]

I see what you're saying, but losses breed losses and lower confidence as well. Players who 'should be fine on paper' can start to look terrible when they're on a really bad run. Obviously it's Pardew's job to turn it around like.

 

It really doesn´t help that he every single week, pre- and post matches, talk about getting back injured players..

[afar]

I see what you're saying, but losses breed losses and lower confidence as well. Players who 'should be fine on paper' can start to look terrible when they're on a really bad run. Obviously it's Pardew's job to turn it around like.

 

It really doesn´t help that he every single week, pre- and post matches, talk about getting back injured players..

 

Exactly, it's like saying to the players he's picking in place of his "better players" that they are crap but we have to put them out there, further damaging their confidence.

[TRon]

 

 

First, the part in bold is completely untrue.

 

Second, the manger has access to more information than any of us will ever be privy to. When he makes selections that seem crazy to us it may just be because there are other reasons we're not aware of. Regardless of whether he's incompetent relative to others in his trade, Alan Pardew knows infinitely more about football, tactics, and the personality, form, and physical state of every single one of our players than all of us. So when doesn't do something that seems obvious perhaps it's not as obvious as you think.

 

(That said, the manager also has the weakness of being personally connected to the situation, which means he may make bad decisions based on things like personalities, friendships, or pride. I often find that it's much easier to explain puzzling tactical decisions in these terms rather than "he's an idiot.")

 

Can you think of some examples of what information Pardew has that we don't, which might suggest that any of the following is a good idea when everybody else can see it failing during an actual match:

 

Moving to 4-4-2 at the begining of this season.

Bypassing midfield.

Cisse is better on the wing than through the middle.

Shola up front is a good idea.

Cabaye is a better footballer when the ball is launched over his head.

Jonas is going to perform during a match when everybody can see that he's not doing it.

Williamson is good enough to play half the season in central defence.

Spending 4 out of 5 days a week on defence is improving performances.

We should restrict a Championship team for 70 minutes before trying to get something from the game.

Virtually playing 2 teams a week then complaining that we have no continuity.

Virtually playing 2 teams a week then complain that out players are tired.

 

I know I've cherry picked a few examples but the list could go on and on and on.  We are where we are for a reason and the main reason is that this season, Pardew hasn't been up to the job.

 

You've claimed that "Alan Pardew knows infinitely more about football, tactics, and the personality, form, and physical state of every single one of our players than all of us."

 

I've seen nothing at all to suggest that he knows any more about football, tactics, form and physical state of our players than your average fan.  Our game play and results suggest that he hasn't got a clue and I would think that most fans could have come up with a more effective plan than Pardew has, especially this season.

 

Basically, he is an idiot.

 

We can bring in new players and they will give Pardew more options but he's had options for most of the season and more often than not he's got them wrong.  As far as I'm concerned the biggest improvement we could get this season would be to get rid of him and bring in somebody with fresh ideas, somebody who can get the best out of the players he has at his disposal.

 

The only way Pardew will be a success here is if he stumbles across something that works and actually sticks to it because I have absolutely no faith in him devising a style of play of his own that works.

 

I don’t even think our transfer policy has held us back with him because he doesn’t know how to get the best out of what he’s got.

 

Brutal but pretty close to the mark.

[Guest tollemache]

I'll have a go then.

 

 

Moving to 4-4-2 at the begining of this season... Attempt to accommodate two proven, potent attacking threats

Bypassing midfield... Unfortunate result of not playing very well in the process

Cisse is better on the wing than through the middle... Better on the wing if he's struggling for form while Ba is banging them in, arguably.

Shola up front is a good idea... Hmmm yeah

Cabaye is a better footballer when the ball is launched over his head... See 'bypassing the midfield'

Jonas is going to perform during a match when everybody can see that he's not doing it... He did it before. Understandable you'd stick with him through a bad patch?

Williamson is good enough to play half the season in central defence... He was good enough to do it last year

Spending 4 out of 5 days a week on defence is improving performances....not sure where you get that so won't comment

We should restrict a Championship team for 70 minutes before trying to get something from the game... Think the idea was not to injure or ban any more first teamers. Many on here clearly agreed that was the priority

 

Virtually playing 2 teams a week then complaining that we have no continuity

Virtually playing 2 teams a week then complain that out players are tired... The real pisser with midweek games is lack of preparation time and being deprived of the ability to focus as a group on the upcoming league match. Rotating your side does little to assuage that

 

 

 

I'm playing Devil's advocate to a certain extent, motivated by what I see as hysterical, blinkered pessimism in some quarters. I think if your opinion is that Pardew (or pretty much any professional manager with very rare exceptions) is an absolutely hopeless numbskull incapable of basic footballing observations, the likelihood is that you're completely wrong and that there is a little more to the situation than you think.

[TaylorJ_01]

It's the constant mid-game formation changes that annoy me the most. I just don't understand it. The players have enough to concentrate on without switching positions/responsibilities around 3 times a game. Opposition players are constantly being left unmarked and we're getting destroyed, especially by the better teams. He has so little faith in anything other than lumping it at the moment

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I'll have a go then.

 

 

Moving to 4-4-2 at the begining of this season... Attempt to accommodate two proven, potent attacking threats

Bypassing midfield... Unfortunate result of not playing very well in the process

Cisse is better on the wing than through the middle... Better on the wing if he's struggling for form while Ba is banging them in, arguably.

Shola up front is a good idea... Hmmm yeah

Cabaye is a better footballer when the ball is launched over his head... See 'bypassing the midfield'

Jonas is going to perform during a match when everybody can see that he's not doing it... He did it before. Understandable you'd stick with him through a bad patch?

Williamson is good enough to play half the season in central defence... He was good enough to do it last year

Spending 4 out of 5 days a week on defence is improving performances....not sure where you get that so won't comment

We should restrict a Championship team for 70 minutes before trying to get something from the game... Think the idea was not to injure or ban any more first teamers. Many on here clearly agreed that was the priority

 

Virtually playing 2 teams a week then complaining that we have no continuity

Virtually playing 2 teams a week then complain that out players are tired... The real pisser with midweek games is lack of preparation time and being deprived of the ability to focus as a group on the upcoming league match. Rotating your side does little to assuage that

 

 

 

I'm playing Devil's advocate to a certain extent, motivated by what I see as hysterical, blinkered pessimism in some quarters. I think if your opinion is that Pardew (or pretty much any professional manager with very rare exceptions) is an absolutely hopeless numbskull incapable of basic footballing observations, the likelihood is that you're completely wrong and that there is a little more to the situation than you think.

 

This is basically what I've been trying to say for weeks. Ironically last season taught me that I maybe don't know as much as I thought about football management!

 

Some of the stuff we criticised, like the management of HBA, actually turned out to be pretty good. It could all have been luck obviously, and it's tempting to conclude that during tough times.

 

I'm hoping these next three games and a signing or two will give us a boost. I'm convinced a lot of our problems are down to shattered confidence and the general losing rut you get into.

[NG32]

I'll have a go then.

 

 

Moving to 4-4-2 at the begining of this season... Attempt to accommodate two proven, potent attacking threats

Bypassing midfield... Unfortunate result of not playing very well in the process

Cisse is better on the wing than through the middle... Better on the wing if he's struggling for form while Ba is banging them in, arguably.

Shola up front is a good idea... Hmmm yeah

Cabaye is a better footballer when the ball is launched over his head... See 'bypassing the midfield'

Jonas is going to perform during a match when everybody can see that he's not doing it... He did it before. Understandable you'd stick with him through a bad patch?

Williamson is good enough to play half the season in central defence... He was good enough to do it last year

Spending 4 out of 5 days a week on defence is improving performances....not sure where you get that so won't comment

We should restrict a Championship team for 70 minutes before trying to get something from the game... Think the idea was not to injure or ban any more first teamers. Many on here clearly agreed that was the priority

 

Virtually playing 2 teams a week then complaining that we have no continuity

Virtually playing 2 teams a week then complain that out players are tired... The real pisser with midweek games is lack of preparation time and being deprived of the ability to focus as a group on the upcoming league match. Rotating your side does little to assuage that

 

 

 

I'm playing Devil's advocate to a certain extent, motivated by what I see as hysterical, blinkered pessimism in some quarters. I think if your opinion is that Pardew (or pretty much any professional manager with very rare exceptions) is an absolutely hopeless numbskull incapable of basic footballing observations, the likelihood is that you're completely wrong and that there is a little more to the situation than you think.

 

Whats the "more to it " situation Tolle?

[Guest tollemache]

Not being a footballing professional or someone closely involved with the team I, like you, can only guess.

[Guest tollemache]

I've seen enough apparently useless football sides, enough bad patches, enough freak runs of form and enough players go from godlike talent to apparent Parkinson's though, to know that at the top level it can be a lot harder than it would seem to perform really well, and that confidence plays an enormous role.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

We all know what it's like to turn up for a football match just knowing you're going to get beat. And how hard it is to get out of that mindset.

[Jack Flash]

I've seen enough apparently useless football sides, enough bad patches, enough freak runs of form and enough players go from godlike talent to apparent Parkinson's though, to know that at the top level it can be a lot harder than it would seem to perform really well, and that confidence plays an enormous role.

 

This is definitely a big part of the problem. For all the talk of "just play 4-3-3!" and "just move Cisse inside!" it's just not that simple when the players are feeling like a dehydrated dog staring at an Arabian puddle.

 

The biggest problem I have with Pardew is that this has been going on for months and I have no faith at all in him turning the confidence/morale issue around. He couldn't at other clubs and it's looking like he can't here.

[Hanshithispantz]

It's the constant mid-game formation changes that annoy me the most. I just don't understand it. The players have enough to concentrate on without switching positions/responsibilities around 3 times a game. Opposition players are constantly being left unmarked and we're getting destroyed, especially by the better teams. He has so little faith in anything other than lumping it at the moment

It's been said many times, but it really is so weird how rigid he is in everything he does, even continuing to lump Cisse out on the wing just because that's where he's been training to play for the 3 days leading up to the Everton game, but anywhere between 25 - 60 minutes in every game he decides to throw caution to the wind and starts changing everything around.

 

I think he's displaying the early signs of dementia.

[Guest tollemache]

So I suppose I'd tend to back Ian W to an extent. Perhaps go a little further and speculate, to the possible agreement of Interpolic, that it is possible that all of this stems from something as trivial as a debate over whether or not to accommodate Demba Ba. I think a couple of injuries and a nagging issue or two like that really can be enough to tip a team over the edge. And when those couple of injuries include the two key creative reference points in your side... Problems.

 

As you'll possibly have noticed by now, I'm a lot more pro-Ashley and pro-Pardew than most because I see signs of what I think is exactly the right way to run a football club emerging after years of embarrassing Shepherd madness, and I'm loath to write that prospect off until the grim death because it is exactly what the club has been crying out for for a long, long time. I'll forgive a run of shitty form, a dud transfer window, a bit of hoofball, a baffling decision and even a slightly uninspirational manager quite happily if it means we end up a soundly-run, upwardly mobile outfit in a few years and I can see it happening. Look at the calibre of our best XI for Christ's sake. If we somehow get it wrong and go down I'll be heartbroken because it will most likely be ripped apart but I think if you can't see that this administration is our best chance for ages at being a proper club you need your head checking. Whatever they're doing wrong, they're doing a lot right. I'm waffling and my pint is getting warm so cheers

[ATB]

So I suppose I'd tend to back Ian W to an extent. Perhaps go a little further and speculate, to the possible agreement of Interpolic, that it is possible that all of this stems from something as trivial as a debate over whether or not to accommodate Demba Ba. I think a couple of injuries and a nagging issue or two like that really can be enough to tip a team over the edge. And when those couple of injuries include the two key creative reference points in your side... Problems.

 

As you'll possibly have noticed by now, I'm a lot more pro-Ashley and pro-Pardew than most because I see signs of what I think is exactly the right way to run a football club emerging after years of embarrassing Shepherd madness, and I'm loath to write that prospect off until the grim death because it is exactly what the club has been crying out for for a long, long time. I'll forgive a run of shitty form, a dud transfer window, a bit of hoofball, a baffling decision and even a slightly uninspirational manager quite happily if it means we end up a soundly-run, upwardly mobile outfit in a few years and I can see it happening. Look at the calibre of our best XI for Christ's sake. If we somehow get it wrong and go down I'll be heartbroken because it will most likely be ripped apart but I think if you can't see that this administration is our best chance for ages at being a proper club you need your head checking. Whatever they're doing wrong, they're doing a lot right. I'm waffling and my pint is getting warm so cheers

 

Yeah me too. But we have an owner that just don´t care about the success, and a manager that just isn´t good enough to take us to the top. That makes it all even more frustrating because I agree that in many ways we do have a good structure. We would just need a owner that would care a little bit more, and a manager that is a little bit better.