Alan Pardew

[Toonpack]

We've played utterly s*** and won in must win games before and they've gained no confidence from it.

 

How can you get any confidence from being thoroughly outplayed for 45 minutes by a team of kids who've just been beaten over two legs by Bradford City and were recently beaten 4-0 at home by bloody Wigan. You can be pleased at dragging yourself over the line against Man United but not this Villa side.

 

I know a win was the most important thing, but we've heard it all before after West Brom, QPR etc, "now we can kick on" - we never do. Last night gives us nowt to go into Chelsea feeling particularly positive about,  it will just enhance the fear if we take the lead, but beating them 4-0 would have done us the world of good.

 

Utter Utter Utter Garbage

 

We held on after being under the cosh, having gifted them a goal - if Simpson had done what Debuchy did he'd be getting crucified on here, Krul actually made some saves for once. We won away from home, Cabaye and Sissoko were excellent until they tired.

 

We won after a team came back at us, previously a team scores and we fold, this time we didn't.

 

Laugahable !!, when we lose it's Pardew's fault, when we win it's despite Pardew.

 

WE WON A GAME, AWAY FROM HOME, NO LESS !!!

 

If winning 4-0 is your benchmark of acceptability, you may as well pack in and start watching basketball.

 

Confidence is an incremental thing and I'll quite happily take some scraped results whilst it builds.

 

Either you have as much comprehension of tactical changes as Pardew has or you never actually watched the second half.

 

Oh I'm sorry, I didn't realise you were a professional coach, which club do you work for ??

 

BTW - Yes we were poor second half, but we hung on, Debuchy doesn't have a brainfart and they would have fizzled out. Them scoring early combined with our lack of confidence meant we were on the back foot. Agree with the changes or not - we held on, and we won, ergo the substitutions worked.

 

Do you have a problem with people passing an opinion that doesn't go along with yours ?

What makes YOU think you are in a position to use your pathetic attempt at sarcasm by

asking another poster if they were a qualified coach ?

 

You lost any credibility when you started quoting Talksh--e - those people are living adverts for the lousy standard of the UK media, and as for the BBC...doesn't that stand for the Biased Broadcasting Corp ?

 

IF you want to judge any situation properly, you try to get as much info about it as possible....you claim that you want to give Pardew time - have you studied his record with his previous clubs ? Has it occurred to you that there may JUST be a pattern there...?

 

If you are a Pardew fan that's fine....just don't expect the rest of us to take the sort of crap you are dishing out in his defence if we disagree - and the percentages of voters who either have lost faith with him or didn't have much in the first place far outweighs those with opinions like yours.

 

You can freely discuss your views about the majority when you meet with those who think like you in a telephone box.....

 

I'm not particulalry, that's the problem with you zealots, it's one or the other, or black or white even, as I said earlier the truth is somewhere inbetween.

 

Changing managers willy-nilly has never done anyone any good as we well know, I am of a mind to try something different, like allowing a lot more rope before hanging anyone.

[bealios]

It's difficult to try and retain a balanced view when we have looked dreadful at some points this season. But we also looked dreadful at certain points last season, at least as bad as this season. However when you're in the top 6 and scraping wins, with the odd excellent performance (Man Utd, Liverpool etc.) then people tend to worry about it less.

 

So far this season we have had the Euro games to contend with, the terrible summer transfer window, injuries to key players (Cabaye, Ben Arfa, Taylor), the Ba situation to deal with (and by that I mean accommodating his wishes at the expense of Cisse in the hope he would re-sign in the summer), the recent Colocinni situation (which I think has affected his form a little over the season), and a serious drop in form by some squad players who managed to do a competent job last year even though they are not fan favourites (Williamson, Shola, Jonas).

 

Is that bad management, or is that something outside of Pardew's control? We can't just ignore it and say it has no affect, it must do.

 

Has Pardew become a bad manager over the summer? Has he been "found out"? I doubt it, and to suggest that he has also suggests that last season he had an element of tactical genius which other managers couldn't work out, but now they have. Hardly likely is it?

 

You might say he was lucky last year, that the team performed well in spite of Pardew. Seems a bit unfair, to suggest that if we do well then its the players dragging  us along despite Pardew, and if we do badly its due to Pardew and not the players.

 

The most likely answer is probably the lease interesting - Pardew is not a terrible manager and he is not the best manager in the league. We overperformed last year, and the joy of finishing 5th tends to erase the memory of some dreadful performances, and some lucky scraped wins. How many points did Ryan Taylor win us? Move forward a season, throw in a load of Euro games, and squad depth becomes a hell of a lot more important. Add to that a drop in form of the sorts of players who make up the squad depth, then you can see how it can start to affect performances. It would take a top top manager to take that scenario and turn it into a season the fans would be pleased with, and Pardew is not one of those managers. However, very few of those managers exist, and those that do are not coming to Newcastle in the near future.

 

Michael Laudrup is the current hot name in management. How do you think he will do if he is still at Swansea next year, they are likely to be in Europe, and lets just assume they have the same lack of strengthening we had this year, and the same issues to deal with. I've seen nothing to suggest that he would cope any better than Pardew, and I would say the same about most managers in this league, perhaps Moyes and Ferguson aside.

 

When you're p*ssed off with the manager it is always easy to point to specific perceived tactical errors that do not work out. Sending Shola on last night and taking Perch off looked like a bad decision in hindsight. However with Shola on a good day (as was the case at some points last season) it sometimes worked well, and he defends corners well and if he holds the ball up properly it takes pressure off the midfield and defence. However, he didn't do that job well last night, so it will go down as a bad decision.

 

Trying to give a balanced view probably comes across as relatively Pro-Pardew, which I'm not. I just think that unless you bag a really top drawer manager then the best you can hope for is a manager who is reasonably competent and that the players want to play for, and Pardew would fit that bill.

This post should be made into its own thread and stuck at the top of the forum.

 

well said. Agree with most...but the shola sub, come on! no excuses. He did fine as a sub last season for 5-10 minutes. He has been really really poor this season and sometimes like yesterday the task asked of him is very difficult to do. How cant pardew see that. If he came on for the last 5-10 minutes and was put in our own box to defend set pieces i could understand. But he cant run and takes away our chances of counter attacking.

 

It would have been much better to pack the midfield, keep cisse central - not on the wing. Then we could have been a threat on the counter with cisse and for example anita running at them.

 

With cisse out wide and shola on top we do not have anything and that is one of the main reasons why we were such under pressure.

 

Point I was trying to make with the last bit is that sticking a player on up front who can hold the ball up and relieve pressure on the midfield and defence when you're under a bit of pressure is a perfectly acceptable tactic adopted by many managers who don't manage the top 3 team, often with success. Problem is that we have nobody who can do that except Shola, and Shola just doesn't seem to have it this season for any more than a 15 minute cameo, and was not replaced in the summer by someone who can. Pardew obviously formed the view that Shola at least attempting to hold the ball up was better than the alternative, which is to not have that outlet and be vulnerable to constant pressure from a resurgent Villa at home with the crowd behind them and an away side low on confidence. Turned out Shola was ineffective, so it didn't work out (although lets not forget we came away with three points).

 

I actually think DL/MA have Carroll earmarked for that holding striker role in the medium term, and there is a reluctance to spend any serious money on replacing Shola until Carroll's long term future is decided. I might be wrong, but I think all of our striking targets so far has been the pacey forward types, and not a genuine ball holding target man.

[taxfree]

'Man Manipulator'.

 

Even his plus points are being made into negatives.

 

He is fucking terrrible, mate. Clueless. He's a slick charmer, and that's it.

[Guest neesy111]

Aye your right sorry, because being positive towards your team who have just won and who are fighting like fuck is shit support.

 

And because Villa have been beaten by lower league teams, they were going to show absolutely nothing here and roll over despite getting a foothold with 40 minutes still to play. Aye shit, forgot football was that simple.

 

I think Fifa on the x-box is teaching a generation that, as a rule, the team with the highest rating should always dominate teams with lower ratings, and it's unforgiveable when that doesn't pan out.

 

These games are still struggling to recreate chaos.

 

[Guest Dontooner]

Like I said earlier, nothing wrong with sitting deeper to counter opposition team's speed, but it's how you bring the ball out that differentiates the football teams from the cloggers.

Man United do not sit deep to close up shop, they retain possession to do that. What a laugh to compare Pardew to Fergie or Mourihno.

Tron illustrates it very clearly above different managers will have a substantial effect on the team. We just have bad manager. After watching Brighton even i rate Poyet higher than Pardew, how the teams bring the ball out from being deep and keeping on to it, makes a real difference in terms of results and points collected as well.

[Stuy_O]

The fact that people are still defending him, when we are in a relegation battle, and just scraped past a team that got beat by bradford and millwall, with the squad we have

 

 

Villa were never just going to lie there and let us f*** them up the arse, did you think or expect the villa match was gonner be a walk in the park?

 

We've been s*** most of the season, then you expect us to hand villa a damn good beating away from home.

 

I think you need to lower your expectations a little.

 

I didn't have high expectations which is exactly my  point. If you read what I actually wrote, I'm saying its a f***ing disgrace that we are in this position with the squad that we have. Seem to remember Wigan turning them over 4-0?

 

Villa beat Liverpool 1-3.

 

Thats football

[buzza]

Folks, why do players suddenly panic on the ball in the second half and stop moving and creating options... Do you honestly think the manager says "hoof it out" boys, even a sunday leaguer has more nous than that, we are talking Professionals here...

Pressure, confidence and other team's momentum make that difference to our play. I think if we get a couple more wins we will start to play like everyone wants...

[buzza]

sorry, a couple more performances... better!

[Wullie]

"That's football" would be it happening once. When it happens over and over and over, you cannot possibly say that it's just football. Otherwise why bother with a manager at all if the results will simply happen without managers affecting them?

[Guest icemanblue]

'Man Manipulator'.

 

Even his plus points are being made into negatives.

 

He is fucking terrrible, mate. Clueless. He's a slick charmer, and that's it.

 

In your opinion.

[Lotus]

Tbf, Villa's first 10 minutes or so after the break were frightening. They were really on fire. I think quite a few teams would have struggled with that.

Pardew's subs didn't really help, Shola can't hold a ball up nor chase down defenders. If Obertan would have been on the bench then he may have used him instead, try to hit them on the break. What we really needed to do last night was counter attack and players we didn't have available, HBA, Marveaux and, yes, even Obertan would have been good for that.

No idea why he left Jonas on, he did nothing. Sometimes i think Pardew judges a play more on character than ability.

[Wullie]

Of course he tells them to kick it long ffs. Why else would he send Shola on? You're hardly going to send him on to pass and move.

 

Use your eyes instead of trying to apply logic to the decisions of a man who plays Cisse on the right wing.

[taxfree]

Folks, why do players suddenly panic on the ball in the second half and stop moving and creating options... Do you honestly think the manager says "hoof it out" boys, even a sunday leaguer has more nous than that, we are talking Professionals here...

Pressure, confidence and other team's momentum make that difference to our play. I think if we get a couple more wins we will start to play like everyone wants...

 

We've done it so many times that it's not a coincidense. Pardew is clearly setting us up to defend the lead, with every single player, except Shola, behind the ball. Of course, that just invites pressure.

 

Also, what Steve Stone said a while ago...

 

Pardew is a tactical mess which has it base in him being a f***ing coward.

[Lotus]

Folks, why do players suddenly panic on the ball in the second half and stop moving and creating options... Do you honestly think the manager says "hoof it out" boys, even a sunday leaguer has more nous than that, we are talking Professionals here...

Pressure, confidence and other team's momentum make that difference to our play. I think if we get a couple more wins we will start to play like everyone wants...

 

We've done it so many times that it's not a coincidense. Pardew is clearly setting us up to defend the lead, with every fucling player, except Shola, behind the ball. Of course, that just invites pressure.

 

Also, what Steve Stone said a while ago...

Pardew is a tactical mess which has it base in him being a f***ing coward.

 

When did Steve Stone say that?

[Wullie]

I cannot believe that the same people who have been claiming all season that Simpson and Williamson were to blame for us going long are now still trying to claim it's the players to blame.

[Hughesy]

Pardew absolutely does tell the players to retreat and defend the lead. That is obvious from watching his team for two years. This idea that it keeps happening out of his control is laughable.

 

Out of interest, do you think he tells them to retreat and hold onto the lead and play possession football or does he tell them to retreat and hold onto the lead by panicking and hoofing the ball to the opposition?

Both, when stress is slightly applied and we are in the lead or holding out for a drawn, we will sit deep and the players will drop dribbling forward. Just watch the last 20 games again. in the second half our players stop dribbling up the field and choose to hold positions. Its exactly why we start hoofing it. GO watch the Game stop being muppets of Pardew when you guys dont actually watch it properly.

 

Sitting deep and not dribbling in itself is not a tactical flaw.  Plenty of teams can effectively close a game out by retaining possession and not taking risks.

 

 

Nothing wrong with sitting deep in itself, I agree. It's a great opportunity to hit teams on the break if you set your team out right to take avdantage of the opposition throwing everyone forward. But you need to pass the ball out when you get possession, not thump it 70 yds down the pitch in the direction of 6'5 substitute striker.

 

Well - I agree entirely with that.  Lumping the ball upfield is brainless and self-defeating - especially when Shola had no-one within 20 yards of him to even play the ball to.  What I am trying to gauge is whether people think that Pardew actually tells them to do this or it is the reaction of a team that is low on confidence, desperate to get a win and was under severe pressure.

 

I just don't believe that Pardew actually instructs them to hoof it upfield whenever they have the ball.

 

What else are they going to do when you bring on Shola then ask your centre forwards to drop onto the right wing? I don't want to labour this point because I'm sick of making it. I just don't see any evidence that we've ever planned how to bring the ball out of defence in Pardew's time here. Let's hope now he's got his quality players he'll be able to develop it.

 

We still had another 10 players on the pitch other than Shola...!  It's not like you suddenly have to abandon all rational thought just because we've got a tall striker on the pitch.  They had plenty of options every time they had the ball.

[Guest neesy111]

Folks, why do players suddenly panic on the ball in the second half and stop moving and creating options... Do you honestly think the manager says "hoof it out" boys, even a sunday leaguer has more nous than that, we are talking Professionals here...

Pressure, confidence and other team's momentum make that difference to our play. I think if we get a couple more wins we will start to play like everyone wants...

 

We've done it so many times that it's not a coincidense. Pardew is clearly setting us up to defend the lead, with every fucling player, except Shola, behind the ball. Of course, that just invites pressure.

 

Also, what Steve Stone said a while ago...

Pardew is a tactical mess which has it base in him being a f***ing coward.

 

When did Steve Stone say that?

 

After the Swansea game at home.

[buzza]

Is he still with Newcastle or has he gone? Doubt you would publicly say that about your boss tbh...

[TRon]

It's difficult to try and retain a balanced view when we have looked dreadful at some points this season. But we also looked dreadful at certain points last season, at least as bad as this season. However when you're in the top 6 and scraping wins, with the odd excellent performance (Man Utd, Liverpool etc.) then people tend to worry about it less.

 

So far this season we have had the Euro games to contend with, the terrible summer transfer window, injuries to key players (Cabaye, Ben Arfa, Taylor), the Ba situation to deal with (and by that I mean accommodating his wishes at the expense of Cisse in the hope he would re-sign in the summer), the recent Colocinni situation (which I think has affected his form a little over the season), and a serious drop in form by some squad players who managed to do a competent job last year even though they are not fan favourites (Williamson, Shola, Jonas).

 

Is that bad management, or is that something outside of Pardew's control? We can't just ignore it and say it has no affect, it must do.

 

Has Pardew become a bad manager over the summer? Has he been "found out"? I doubt it, and to suggest that he has also suggests that last season he had an element of tactical genius which other managers couldn't work out, but now they have. Hardly likely is it?

 

You might say he was lucky last year, that the team performed well in spite of Pardew. Seems a bit unfair, to suggest that if we do well then its the players dragging  us along despite Pardew, and if we do badly its due to Pardew and not the players.

 

The most likely answer is probably the lease interesting - Pardew is not a terrible manager and he is not the best manager in the league. We overperformed last year, and the joy of finishing 5th tends to erase the memory of some dreadful performances, and some lucky scraped wins. How many points did Ryan Taylor win us? Move forward a season, throw in a load of Euro games, and squad depth becomes a hell of a lot more important. Add to that a drop in form of the sorts of players who make up the squad depth, then you can see how it can start to affect performances. It would take a top top manager to take that scenario and turn it into a season the fans would be pleased with, and Pardew is not one of those managers. However, very few of those managers exist, and those that do are not coming to Newcastle in the near future.

 

Michael Laudrup is the current hot name in management. How do you think he will do if he is still at Swansea next year, they are likely to be in Europe, and lets just assume they have the same lack of strengthening we had this year, and the same issues to deal with. I've seen nothing to suggest that he would cope any better than Pardew, and I would say the same about most managers in this league, perhaps Moyes and Ferguson aside.

 

When you're p*ssed off with the manager it is always easy to point to specific perceived tactical errors that do not work out. Sending Shola on last night and taking Perch off looked like a bad decision in hindsight. However with Shola on a good day (as was the case at some points last season) it sometimes worked well, and he defends corners well and if he holds the ball up properly it takes pressure off the midfield and defence. However, he didn't do that job well last night, so it will go down as a bad decision.

 

Trying to give a balanced view probably comes across as relatively Pro-Pardew, which I'm not. I just think that unless you bag a really top drawer manager then the best you can hope for is a manager who is reasonably competent and that the players want to play for, and Pardew would fit that bill.

This post should be made into its own thread and stuck at the top of the forum.

 

well said. Agree with most...but the shola sub, come on! no excuses. He did fine as a sub last season for 5-10 minutes. He has been really really poor this season and sometimes like yesterday the task asked of him is very difficult to do. How cant pardew see that. If he came on for the last 5-10 minutes and was put in our own box to defend set pieces i could understand. But he cant run and takes away our chances of counter attacking.

 

It would have been much better to pack the midfield, keep cisse central - not on the wing. Then we could have been a threat on the counter with cisse and for example anita running at them.

 

With cisse out wide and shola on top we do not have anything and that is one of the main reasons why we were such under pressure.

 

Point I was trying to make with the last bit is that sticking a player on up front who can hold the ball up and relieve pressure on the midfield and defence when you're under a bit of pressure is a perfectly acceptable tactic adopted by many managers who don't manage the top 3 team, often with success. Problem is that we have nobody who can do that except Shola, and Shola just doesn't seem to have it this season for any more than a 15 minute cameo, and was not replaced in the summer by someone who can. Pardew obviously formed the view that Shola at least attempting to hold the ball up was better than the alternative, which is to not have that outlet and be vulnerable to constant pressure from a resurgent Villa at home with the crowd behind them and an away side low on confidence. Turned out Shola was ineffective, so it didn't work out (although lets not forget we came away with three points).

 

I actually think DL/MA have Carroll earmarked for that holding striker role in the medium term, and there is a reluctance to spend any serious money on replacing Shola until Carroll's long term future is decided. I might be wrong, but I think all of our striking targets so far has been the pacey forward types, and not a genuine ball holding target man.

 

I can understand we might need a target man, but I hope to God it's not Carroll we've got in mind. Might be an idea to keep the ball on the deck and see if Cisse can't be used better in that role.

[Stuy_O]

The fact that people are still defending him, when we are in a relegation battle, and just scraped past a team that got beat by bradford and millwall, with the squad we have

 

 

Villa were never just going to lie there and let us f*** them up the arse, did you think or expect the villa match was gonner be a walk in the park?

 

We've been s*** most of the season, then you expect us to hand villa a damn good beating away from home.

 

I think you need to lower your expectations a little.

 

 

I didn't have high expectations which is exactly my  point. If you read what I actually wrote, I'm saying its a f***ing disgrace that we are in this position with the squad that we have. Seem to remember Wigan turning them over 4-0?

 

Villa beat Liverpool 1-3.

 

Thats football

 

 

Fair enough but it doesn't make my point any less valid. There is no way that we should be in this position with the squad we have. I'm astonished people are finding ways to spin this, when its glaring that the management, the tactics, the style of play is f***ing dreadful

 

Your earlier post suggested you thought we would go to Villa yesterday and coast to victory, simply because they are on a rotten run. Come on. Every away fixture in that division is hard.

 

Was never ever going to be like that, of course we have better players but when your fighting at the bottom against teams near you that argument becomes somewhat redundant. Yesterday was about character and it's to the players immense credit they got the points.

 

It's not really acceptable we are where no, and a number of developments have led to our predicament, (yes, Pardew's tactics being one), but he's got new players in, his captain is staying and Cabaye is looking very good, all positive signs. Most crucially aswell, the spirit has somehow remained intact. It's cast iron fact it would have evaporated with other managers.

 

 

 

[taxfree]

jesus. I haven't said what he said. Although maybe indirectly. My phone is a mess so cba looking for the actual quotes.

[Hughesy]

Of course he tells them to kick it long ffs. Why else would he send Shola on? You're hardly going to send him on to pass and move.

 

Use your eyes instead of trying to apply logic to the decisions of a man who plays Cisse on the right wing.

 

I am sure he tells them to use Shola as an outball to relieve some pressure.  The problem being that even if you had Shearer up there, you still need to give him a ball he can control and then give him options.  I very very much doubt he tells them to play it to him at every opportunity.

[Stuy_O]

I cannot believe that the same people who have been claiming all season that Simpson and Williamson were to blame for us going long are now still trying to claim it's the players to blame.

 

Well that's an interesting one, would we have held on had Williamson been playing?

[TRon]

Pardew absolutely does tell the players to retreat and defend the lead. That is obvious from watching his team for two years. This idea that it keeps happening out of his control is laughable.

 

Out of interest, do you think he tells them to retreat and hold onto the lead and play possession football or does he tell them to retreat and hold onto the lead by panicking and hoofing the ball to the opposition?

Both, when stress is slightly applied and we are in the lead or holding out for a drawn, we will sit deep and the players will drop dribbling forward. Just watch the last 20 games again. in the second half our players stop dribbling up the field and choose to hold positions. Its exactly why we start hoofing it. GO watch the Game stop being muppets of Pardew when you guys dont actually watch it properly.

 

Sitting deep and not dribbling in itself is not a tactical flaw.  Plenty of teams can effectively close a game out by retaining possession and not taking risks.

 

 

Nothing wrong with sitting deep in itself, I agree. It's a great opportunity to hit teams on the break if you set your team out right to take avdantage of the opposition throwing everyone forward. But you need to pass the ball out when you get possession, not thump it 70 yds down the pitch in the direction of 6'5 substitute striker.

 

Well - I agree entirely with that.  Lumping the ball upfield is brainless and self-defeating - especially when Shola had no-one within 20 yards of him to even play the ball to.  What I am trying to gauge is whether people think that Pardew actually tells them to do this or it is the reaction of a team that is low on confidence, desperate to get a win and was under severe pressure.

 

I just don't believe that Pardew actually instructs them to hoof it upfield whenever they have the ball.

 

What else are they going to do when you bring on Shola then ask your centre forwards to drop onto the right wing? I don't want to labour this point because I'm sick of making it. I just don't see any evidence that we've ever planned how to bring the ball out of defence in Pardew's time here. Let's hope now he's got his quality players he'll be able to develop it.

 

We still had another 10 players on the pitch other than Shola...!  It's not like you suddenly have to abandon all rational thought just because we've got a tall striker on the pitch.  They had plenty of options every time they had the ball.

 

Like pass to Cisse on the wing? Come off it man, like Wullie said, if it was one game you might have a point.

[The College Dropout]

You can here Pardew all game on the TV. He doesn't encourage us to push up when we are deep in our own half in the 70th minute.