Alan Pardew

[Dave]

I know the overall play was poor, to say the least. But just so much went against us today. And I know this a massively over simplistic view but:

 

- Debuchy's unlucky injury leading to that defensive shuffle didn't help - almost led directly to the goal. Haidara really didn't look ready to come on, thought he looked very suspect defensively while he was on. Way too much space to get that cross in.

 

- The tackle, need I say more? With the way Wigan are set up, going down to ten men means a total change of system. More so that other sides. You know how it is with horror injuries, sometimes players react well and it adds a bit of impetus. Today went the other way and went into our shells a bit.

 

- And their goal just shouldn't of stood. Would be a very diffent mood on here if it was 1-1.

 

I'm not a massive Pardew fan by any means, but today I don't want too be too harsh on him. Tbh, given the the manner in which the decisions went us I am pretty surprised with the outbursts on here. Although maybe I shouldn't be...

 

 

Only thing I disagree on is about there being a different mood if we'd got a point. I thought we were rubbish, a point would have been a bonus but wouldn't have made the performance any better. That's my entire argument.

[Parky]

I know the overall play was poor, to say the least. But just so much went against us today. And I know this a massively over simplistic view but:

 

- Debuchy's unlucky injury leading to that defensive shuffle didn't help - almost led directly to the goal. Haidara really didn't look ready to come on, thought he looked very suspect defensively while he was on. Way too much space to get that cross in.

 

- The tackle, need I say more? With the way Wigan are set up, going down to ten men means a total change of system. More so that other sides. You know how it is with horror injuries, sometimes players react well and it adds a bit of impetus. Today went the other way and went into our shells a bit.

 

- And their goal just shouldn't of stood. Would be a very diffent mood on here if it was 1-1.

 

I'm not a massive Pardew fan by any means, but today I don't want too be too harsh on him. Tbh, given the the manner in which the decisions went us I am pretty surprised with the outbursts on here. Although maybe I shouldn't be...

 

 

The criticism of Pard is well documented going back 2 years and nothing much has changed. It's not really results based, rather performance and general nous based. His football brain is shockingly limited, there is no polite way of putting it.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

I know the overall play was poor, to say the least. But just so much went against us today. And I know this a massively over simplistic view but:

 

- Debuchy's unlucky injury leading to that defensive shuffle didn't help - almost led directly to the goal. Haidara really didn't look ready to come on, thought he looked very suspect defensively while he was on. Way too much space to get that cross in.

 

- The tackle, need I say more? With the way Wigan are set up, going down to ten men means a total change of system. More so that other sides. You know how it is with horror injuries, sometimes players react well and it adds a bit of impetus. Today went the other way and went into our shells a bit.

 

- And their goal just shouldn't of stood. Would be a very diffent mood on here if it was 1-1.

 

I'm not a massive Pardew fan by any means, but today I don't want too be too harsh on him. Tbh, given the the manner in which the decisions went us I am pretty surprised with the outbursts on here. Although maybe I shouldn't be...

 

 

And yet in the second half, Santon had the run of that right flank and did actually score from there so although losing Debuchy was a blow, it wasn't a huge blow. If anything it certainly helped Santon/our right side. The biggest blow was whenever we were on the ball which for long periods we were on it quite a lot, we simply didn't have anything in our game from an attacking perspective to really get at them and to turn all of that possession/time on the ball into shots/chances and with it goals.

 

And then off the ball... well we were a mess. I blame that on Pardew. He should have put Anita on and not Perch. Him and Tiote kept getting in each other's way and the two were far too deep. If he was asking Jonas to fill in at LB the midfield was surely crying out for Anita and not Perch? That way Tiote could have moved further up field and at least in Anita we would have had someone capable at passing. Perch and Tiote constantly gave away cheap possession, deep into our own half which meant they would have runners advanced on our back-four far too often. Wigan actually squandered a lot of forward play themselves. A more precise and clinical side would have punished us massively.

[Guest Dontooner]

Winning a game would turn their moods , they only care for the results , we have been poor for the season and the reference is to the performances.

We are at times terrible to watch.

[GeordieT]

The criticism of Pard is well documented going back 2 years and nothing much has changed. It's not really results based, rather performance and general nous based. His football brain is shockingly limited, there is no polite way of putting it.

 

I know and I think most people have had their eyes well and truly opened this season.

 

I know the overall play was poor, to say the least. But just so much went against us today. And I know this a massively over simplistic view but:

 

- Debuchy's unlucky injury leading to that defensive shuffle didn't help - almost led directly to the goal. Haidara really didn't look ready to come on, thought he looked very suspect defensively while he was on. Way too much space to get that cross in.

 

- The tackle, need I say more? With the way Wigan are set up, going down to ten men means a total change of system. More so that other sides. You know how it is with horror injuries, sometimes players react well and it adds a bit of impetus. Today went the other way and went into our shells a bit.

 

- And their goal just shouldn't of stood. Would be a very diffent mood on here if it was 1-1.

 

I'm not a massive Pardew fan by any means, but today I don't want too be too harsh on him. Tbh, given the the manner in which the decisions went us I am pretty surprised with the outbursts on here. Although maybe I shouldn't be...

 

 

Only thing I disagree on is about there being a different mood if we'd got a point. I thought we were rubbish, a point would have been a bonus but wouldn't have made the performance any better. That's my entire argument.

 

No of course, it would have been a relief. But I think the venom in people's posts directed at Pardew is harsh given the circumstances. He is to blame for an awful lot this season, but I won't hold this result against him.

[Foluwashola]

It remains to be seen whether the players Pardew has received are actually as world class as everyone claims. Have seen both brilliance and bollocks from Sissoko and YMB so far. Obviously I haven't seen as much French football as the clever c***s on here, but nevermind.

 

Just seems as if some 'fans' were eager for a result like today so they could add it to their anti-Pards artillery. We weren't our best today, but the ref was absolutely woeful and we were without key players. Nay need for hissy fits.

 

 

 

LOL. Or maybe people find it ludicrous that we are hovering over the relegation zone, despite the fact we have one of the best squads we've had in years, while being served up absolutely tactically horrendous dross. Just a thought. Contrary just for the sake of it. Laughable

 

This get reeled out so often with so little evidence. We were probably without our 4 most proven players today like, but we should still be expected to DESTROY the puny Wigan despite the refereeing horror show.

 

I often wish this place was more representative of the majority of fans. Unfortunately it continues to be a breeding ground for reactionary keyboard mentalists.

 

 

[Dave]

As I've said a few times in this thread, I'm perfectly prepared to accept this shitstorm of a season if the club and manager learn from it. I'd like to think next year isn't going to be determined purely by how fortunate we are with transfer negotiations and injuries though.

[Darth Crooks]

As I've said a few times in this thread, I'm perfectly prepared to accept this shitstorm of a season if the club and manager learn from it. I'd like to think next year isn't going to be determined purely by how fortunate we are with transfer negotiations and injuries though.

 

Agreed.

[Si]

As I've said a few times in this thread, I'm perfectly prepared to accept this shitstorm of a season if the club and manager learn from it. I'd like to think next year isn't going to be determined purely by how fortunate we are with transfer negotiations and injuries though.

 

Agreed.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

It remains to be seen whether the players Pardew has received are actually as world class as everyone claims. Have seen both brilliance and bollocks from Sissoko and YMB so far. Obviously I haven't seen as much French football as the clever c***s on here, but nevermind.

 

Just seems as if some 'fans' were eager for a result like today so they could add it to their anti-Pards artillery. We weren't our best today, but the ref was absolutely woeful and we were without key players. Nay need for hissy fits.

 

 

 

LOL. Or maybe people find it ludicrous that we are hovering over the relegation zone, despite the fact we have one of the best squads we've had in years, while being served up absolutely tactically horrendous dross. Just a thought. Contrary just for the sake of it. Laughable

 

This get reeled out so often with so little evidence. We were probably without our 4 most proven players today like, but we should still be expected to DESTROY the puny Wigan despite the refereeing horror show.

 

I often wish this place was more representative of the majority of fans. Unfortunately it continues to be a breeding ground for reactionary keyboard mentalists.

 

 

 

Again you are f***ing blind to what people are pissing and moaning about. PERFORMANCE not f***ing RESULT. That's what people are p*ssed off about, the way we f***ing play. Whether we have our best side out or not we generally play bad or look an average side yet we clearly have the players to be a good side.

 

f*** that tackle, the handball and the loss, we put in yet another p*ss poor performance as a team. That's why we are down where we are not because of injuries, poor refereeing decisions or fixture congestion all excuses trotted out as to why we play shite. No, its because of the way we play as a team. We play s**** and have done all season and even for large parts of last season. And that's Pardew's fault. Anyone who disagrees or wants to use an excuse to why we play so s*** is a f***ing retarded idiot to be honest. Stevie Wonder can see we are s*** at this round ball game thing man. Wigan looked like a Ferrari at times compared to us, the lousy f***ing Rover.

[Dave]

Keep it civil please.

[Parky]

I really don't know what Pards gets out of his tactics apart from a bit of safety (but even the goals against is ridiculous). Earlier in the thread someone was saying even the new players will go to shit after a few months of Pardball and I can hoenstly see that happenning.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Keep it civil please.

 

Fuck off

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nah you're right, just riles me how people can't seem to read what people are saying.

[Beren]

I'm not massively displeased with anything Pardew did today (ie. today in isolation). Thought his team selection was fine and it was one of the occasions were we started out of the blocks pretty quickly (a phenomena I can count on my hands this season) for which he deserves credit. His pre-match comments about revenge for last season impressed me also.

 

The injury to Debuchy really threw us, and encouraged them. They also got a goal off some horrible "defending" from Santon.

 

I can certainly understand the viewpoint that it was enough to derail us/encourage them, and to an extent I'd agree, but I do think that in a moment like that (and the subsequent injury to Haidara), it really exposes a team's true level - insofar as they revert to what they know/are comfortable with - their default setting, if you will.

 

Under Pardew, their default setting hasn't been very good if we're honest. It's been a scatter-shot, supremely optimistic "strategy" of playing in Ba, then Cisse early. It's an attack which is comprised of straight lines which at all times point forwards, and at all times are easily telegraphed by opposing defences - if not always dealt with.

 

Sometimes, the quality of the balls played is enough to let these passes come off - but the balance of probabilities is generally stacked against us when we try to break down a team like this. The additions of Gouffran and Sissoko have added new attacking qualities which have been very encouraging - attacking midfielders/wing-forwards who can run at defences with pace and power. The past few games these runs have begun to operate in straight lines too, sadly. I hope it isn't too indicative of things to come.

 

I think some fans are happy to see us run/graft and that's fine for them - what will be, will be. Some days you will get the rub of the green, others you won't. There is only so much can that be done, basically. Other fans, I think, are frustrated with the misuse/unfulfilled potential of our resources, and that's where all this aggro/hostility towards between the two sides emanates from.

 

I fall into the latter category. I want us to win/be successful/play good football. Others are IMO overly-concerned with other fans thinking they are deluded for believing there is more we can achieve than squeezing a top 10 finish here and there. I'm convinced our squad can do more, I'm convinced better football can be eked from the squad and I believe better results will follow if/when this is done. I won't be happy until it does, and I'm sure that will wind a lot of other posters up This is not my intention. I don't think Pardew can get us playing good football, that's all.

 

I don't understand the rationale/evidence behind any assertion to the contrary, based on what we have seen in his managerial career so far (here or elsewhere).

[colinmk]

Top post Beren, sums up my thoughts about today and the bigger picture.

[Dr Venkman]

But for a second shocking referee decision, we'd have got a point today. A results that many of those complaining said they'd accept before the game. His much maligned subs changed the game in our favour.

 

It was, however, a largely shite performance against a fresher team, who move the ball about well. It's probably our first truly 'bad' performance since Villa away. If you can't accept that a team will have bad games (especially on the back of a hard fought game three days previously), and feel it should cost a manager his job. Well, there's not much hope for you.

 

Regardless of the result or performance, he'll be panned by the usual crowd.

 

And excused by the usual crowd. He shouldn't lose his job for having a bad game, he should lose his job because the team plays like shit more often than not.

[wormy]

I really don't know what Pards gets out of his tactics apart from a bit of safety (but even the goals against is ridiculous). Earlier in the thread someone was saying even the new players will go to shit after a few months of Pardball and I can hoenstly see that happenning.

 

It's upsetting watching quality players with good movement and drive get dragged down. It's no mystery why players beginning their career with us are looking the best players. Pardew hasn't coached their ability out of them yet.

 

Shit referee or not, we weren't good enough today. And it's been a recurring theme all season. We can piss and moan all we like about McManaman's 'challenge', the fact of the matter is it was still 11 vs 11 and with our injuries we should still be competing against Wigan. But instead we played like we have done all season. No gameplan going forward, gifting the initiative to Wigan with our utterly useless 'passing style'.

[Tiotes Witch Doctor]

I'm not massively displeased with anything Pardew did today (ie. today in isolation). Thought his team selection was fine and it was one of the occasions were we started out of the blocks pretty quickly (a phenomena I can count on my hands this season) for which he deserves credit. His pre-match comments about revenge for last season impressed me also.

 

The injury to Debuchy really threw us, and encouraged them. They also got a goal off some horrible "defending" from Santon.

 

I can certainly understand the viewpoint that it was enough to derail us/encourage them, and to an extent I'd agree, but I do think that in a moment like that (and the subsequent injury to Haidara), it really exposes a team's true level - insofar as they revert to what they know/are comfortable with - their default setting, if you will.

 

Under Pardew, their default setting hasn't been very good if we're honest. It's been a scatter-shot, supremely optimistic "strategy" of playing in Ba, then Cisse early. It's an attack which is comprised of straight lines which at all times point forwards, and at all times are easily telegraphed by opposing defences - if not always dealt with.

 

Sometimes, the quality of the balls played is enough to let these passes come off - but the balance of probabilities is generally stacked against us when we try to break down a team like this. The additions of Gouffran and Sissoko have added new attacking qualities which have been very encouraging - attacking midfielders/wing-forwards who can run at defences with pace and power. The past few games these runs have begun to operate in straight lines too, sadly. I hope it isn't too indicative of things to come.

 

I think some fans are happy to see us run/graft and that's fine for them - what will be, will be. Some days you will get the rub of the green, others you won't. There is only so much can that be done, basically. Other fans, I think, are frustrated with the misuse/unfulfilled potential of our resources, and that's where all this aggro/hostility towards between the two sides emanates from.

 

I fall into the latter category. I want us to win/be successful/play good football. Others are IMO overly-concerned with other fans thinking they are deluded for believing there is more we can achieve than squeezing a top 10 finish here and there. I'm convinced our squad can do more, I'm convinced better football can be eked from the squad and I believe better results will follow if/when this is done. I won't be happy until it does, and I'm sure that will wind a lot of other posters up This is not my intention. I don't think Pardew can get us playing good football, that's all.

 

I don't understand the rationale/evidence behind any assertion to the contrary, based on what we have seen in his managerial career so far (here or elsewhere).

 

One of the best posts I've ever read on this forum in my long lurking history.

 

Absolutely spot on and sums up my thoughts, only a lot more eloquently 

[Darth Crooks]

I really don't know what Pards gets out of his tactics apart from a bit of safety (but even the goals against is ridiculous). Earlier in the thread someone was saying even the new players will go to shit after a few months of Pardball and I can hoenstly see that happenning.

 

They are coaching to keep shape and contain wth little movement and rask taking. The other night Jonas was stood regularly between our two centre halves waiting for their players to run at them. Adam Cambell came on and instead of being on the shoulder of their last man was sat deep wathcing the runs of ther right back. Against ten fucking men. People say what a good team they were and what a great result and they would be right. But blimey did we make hard work of it.

 

That was the one cross that was of any use and the man who can do it stuck it away. Given the opportunity. We are so dour and inhibited that when the fates stac against us like this with piss poor decisions; it only ever goes one way. I was a massive factor no doubt but we don't do ourselves any favours.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

I really don't know what Pards gets out of his tactics apart from a bit of safety (but even the goals against is ridiculous). Earlier in the thread someone was saying even the new players will go to s*** after a few months of Pardball and I can hoenstly see that happenning.

 

When Pardew sits down and analysis this performance this will be his thoughts...

 

"Well the lads worked really hard, we had a tough week and we was robbed of not only two of our full-backs but also their winning goal was a hand-ball and they should have been down to 10 men. If the ref had done his job, we would have went on not to lose that game and maybe with a bit of magic even win it as Pappis has been dangerous of late and is in good form."

 

Then he'll go into training and work on defending and talk about shape, tracking back, pressing, winning those loose balls, getting it forward early, hoping Cisse scores a belter, Cabaye get a chance on the edge of the box with a free-kick or Mousa breaks free from deep etc. etc.

 

There is no game plan, no system, no nothing.

 

Today, Marveux whips in a cross to no-one. The camera pans to Pardew who starts writing down some tactical bull s*** for a minute or so. What the f***? Honestly. What possesses someone to reach for the notebook when a player whips in a s*** cross? He's a fraud man.

[Dr Venkman]

HTT comes out with the same guff every game, regardless of the result. If we've won, people laugh and post memes. If we've lost, they all agree.

 

Deflection and straw men, take a break.

[Guest Dontooner]

I really don't know what Pards gets out of his tactics apart from a bit of safety (but even the goals against is ridiculous). Earlier in the thread someone was saying even the new players will go to s*** after a few months of Pardball and I can hoenstly see that happenning.

He is already aggressively applying those changes now, pure frustration to see talented players play like shit and do well internationally. What a joke

[Guest icemanblue]

HTT comes out with the same guff every game, regardless of the result. If we've won, people laugh and post memes. If we've lost, they all agree.

 

Deflection and straw men, take a break.

 

The fuck you on about, like? It's a post made in isolation to everything else.

 

'Take a break', man. Honestly.

[Dr Venkman]

The argument about results vs performances is an interesting one. Ideally you want both, after that results obviously come first. Last season I'd say our results were better than the performances. This season clearly neither have been good enough. It seems though that for some people results are pretty much all that matter, which puzzles me. I watch and go to the matches to see enterprising, entertaining football and hopefully for us to win. Stoke are above us in the table and yet surely nobody would want Tony Pulis in charge, or Sam Allardyce again.

 

We were robbed of a point today, but that doesn't mean the performance was good enough.

 

I don't see anybody arguing that he performance today was in any way 'good'. It was what it was, a tired, disjointed performance, owing to a physically demanding game three days previously and a freakish succession of injuries.

 

What have all our other shit results this season been down to then? Are they all down to other factors? At what point does the talent of the manager start to overcome these factors or do we actually need a season like the last one where everything goes our way (bar one or two decisions) for us to have a good season? (or even a decent season?)

[Foluwashola]

I'm not massively displeased with anything Pardew did today (ie. today in isolation). Thought his team selection was fine and it was one of the occasions were we started out of the blocks pretty quickly (a phenomena I can count on my hands this season) for which he deserves credit. His pre-match comments about revenge for last season impressed me also.

 

The injury to Debuchy really threw us, and encouraged them. They also got a goal off some horrible "defending" from Santon.

 

I can certainly understand the viewpoint that it was enough to derail us/encourage them, and to an extent I'd agree, but I do think that in a moment like that (and the subsequent injury to Haidara), it really exposes a team's true level - insofar as they revert to what they know/are comfortable with - their default setting, if you will.

 

Under Pardew, their default setting hasn't been very good if we're honest. It's been a scatter-shot, supremely optimistic "strategy" of playing in Ba, then Cisse early. It's an attack which is comprised of straight lines which at all times point forwards, and at all times are easily telegraphed by opposing defences - if not always dealt with.

 

Sometimes, the quality of the balls played is enough to let these passes come off - but the balance of probabilities is generally stacked against us when we try to break down a team like this. The additions of Gouffran and Sissoko have added new attacking qualities which have been very encouraging - attacking midfielders/wing-forwards who can run at defences with pace and power. The past few games these runs have begun to operate in straight lines too, sadly. I hope it isn't too indicative of things to come.

 

I think some fans are happy to see us run/graft and that's fine for them - what will be, will be. Some days you will get the rub of the green, others you won't. There is only so much can that be done, basically. Other fans, I think, are frustrated with the misuse/unfulfilled potential of our resources, and that's where all this aggro/hostility towards between the two sides emanates from.

 

I fall into the latter category. I want us to win/be successful/play good football. Others are IMO overly-concerned with other fans thinking they are deluded for believing there is more we can achieve than squeezing a top 10 finish here and there. I'm convinced our squad can do more, I'm convinced better football can be eked from the squad and I believe better results will follow if/when this is done. I won't be happy until it does, and I'm sure that will wind a lot of other posters up This is not my intention. I don't think Pardew can get us playing good football, that's all.

 

I don't understand the rationale/evidence behind any assertion to the contrary, based on what we have seen in his managerial career so far (here or elsewhere).

 

Such outrageous ideological bollocks. Also seem to have created an imaginary fanbase that is only concerned with 'graft'.

 

Had too many beers to deliver an opposing viewpoint succinctly, but aye, rubbish.