Mick Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 Hopefully we won't be saying that after next season. With a bit of luck we'll be talking about how well our new manager has us playing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanj Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 I still think people are too quick to dismiss talk of him being sacked. It might not be likely right now but if Ashley's proved anything it's that he's unpredictable. I would've said it was virtually impossible a couple of weeks ago but you've got to think at some point they'll figure out that he's not getting the most out of Ashley's investment. Player values will have dropped compared to last season too. You just can't sustain the 'model' under these circumstances. Yep. The "model" probably also includes player and club value increasing. The players aren't performing, therefore their valuations are decreasing and the position our club is in at the moment in the table is harming value. He's a business man and he'll see that 100%. Now if he continues to think only like a strict businessman he'll then weigh the options of the cost of sacking AP and his backroom team vs. the cost of what another season of having to buy hims players to help him out of trouble and/or the decreasing values of purple players who were supposed/could have been moved on for a hefty profit that have digressed under AP's stewardship. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattoon Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 Surely flirting so close to relegation and some embarrassing results, not least of which against our biggest rivals for bragging rights and a minimum expectation of a top 8 finish is enough to bury him?! Agreed its no good sacking him so close to the end of the season whilst being dangerously close to relegation, I think Ashley will have learnt from last time that management changes in this predicament can have serious adverse effects. Once we're safe, we should bin him, there are NO excuses for this season, especially after the purchases made in January, plus even the thickest of football fans can see our players are going backwards in quality at an alarming rate! Even the newest additions such as Sissoko, who looked a beast when he joined is looking jaded, unskilled and disinterested. Rant over, just sick of the shit performances, lack of cohesion, tactics, movement, pressing and marking and sick to death of the constant stream of bullshit we get fed after every match!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 Surely flirting so close to relegation and some embarrassing results, not least of which against our biggest rivals for bragging rights and a minimum expectation of a top 8 finish is enough to bury him?! Agreed its no good sacking him so close to the end of the season whilst being dangerously close to relegation, I think Ashley will have learnt from last time that management changes in this predicament can have serious adverse effects. Once we're safe, we should bin him, there are NO excuses for this season, especially after the purchases made in January, plus even the thickest of football fans can see our players are going backwards in quality at an alarming rate! Even the newest additions such as Sissoko, who looked a beast when he joined is looking jaded, unskilled and disinterested. Rant over, just sick of the shit performances, lack of cohesion, tactics, movement, pressing and marking and sick to death of the constant stream of bullshit we get fed after every match!! Good post. Ironically enough given the opinions on here I think one of the things they'd have to contend with if they binned him is fan discontent. Not that I think they give a shit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BrightonMag Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 I'm resigned to him staying, which begs the question as to whether he can win anyone around from this position? If he can would it be the first time in recent history that a manager has done it? At a big club? Probably. The problem is they're never given the chance to. How many big clubs have hung on to a manager after a bad half or whole season. Famously, Man Utd (although I can't remember how bad it was) Maybe Moyes? If we were playing well and in the top 5 come October people would soon be Ok wouldn't they? I'm as frustrated by his tactics as anyone, but maybe he can learn.... OK, that was devil's advocate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG32 Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 Im fancying a bit of Poyet at this moment in time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 Surely flirting so close to relegation and some embarrassing results, not least of which against our biggest rivals for bragging rights and a minimum expectation of a top 8 finish is enough to bury him?! Agreed its no good sacking him so close to the end of the season whilst being dangerously close to relegation, I think Ashley will have learnt from last time that management changes in this predicament can have serious adverse effects. Once we're safe, we should bin him, there are NO excuses for this season, especially after the purchases made in January, plus even the thickest of football fans can see our players are going backwards in quality at an alarming rate! Even the newest additions such as Sissoko, who looked a beast when he joined is looking jaded, unskilled and disinterested. Rant over, just sick of the shit performances, lack of cohesion, tactics, movement, pressing and marking and sick to death of the constant stream of bullshit we get fed after every match!! "You can't keep changing your manager if he has a bad run - it doesn't make any sense at all. We just want to break that mould in football. Eight years... this is where we've got to be." It's not going to happen. Not yet, anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattoon Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 Surely flirting so close to relegation and some embarrassing results, not least of which against our biggest rivals for bragging rights and a minimum expectation of a top 8 finish is enough to bury him?! Agreed its no good sacking him so close to the end of the season whilst being dangerously close to relegation, I think Ashley will have learnt from last time that management changes in this predicament can have serious adverse effects. Once we're safe, we should bin him, there are NO excuses for this season, especially after the purchases made in January, plus even the thickest of football fans can see our players are going backwards in quality at an alarming rate! Even the newest additions such as Sissoko, who looked a beast when he joined is looking jaded, unskilled and disinterested. Rant over, just sick of the s*** performances, lack of cohesion, tactics, movement, pressing and marking and sick to death of the constant stream of bullshit we get fed after every match!! Good post. Ironically enough given the opinions on here I think one of the things they'd have to contend with if they binned him is fan discontent. Not that I think they give a s***. It's essential that if we do replace him, we replace him well. Ashley has shown he doesn't give a toss who he upsets if he thinks he's making the right decision. Rightly or wrongly we have a reputation for getting on our managers back and I think in some way that has affected people's opinion on Pardew, the constant drilling of the idealism of stability is also a factor. Even taking the above into account though, we're in a rut and Pardew hasn't the tactical nous to bring us out and utilise the strengths of our players, we have one of the strongest midfields in the league on paper but we're being out battled and outplayed by teams of Sunderlands ilk. We're 2 strikers away from having one of the strongest sides I've ever seen in black and white, we're a long way away from that on the pitch and the buck has to stop with Pardew. How do you think we would fair with this team under the late Sir Bobby, so is our current predicament acceptable? I'd say not! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 What makes you think that isn't the general Llambias guff Dave, I'm genuinely interested. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 What makes you think that isn't the general Llambias guff Dave, I'm genuinely interested. Dunno. I suppose I think it's pretty genuine that they believe in the current set up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattoon Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 Like I said, I think it's the general opinion that stability breeds success, I.e Alex Ferguson et al and I also think that given what happened with him historically may lead to Pardew being given more time yet. Agreed stability does bring a modecum of success, you can see that with teams like Arsenal and Man U but would anyone put Pardew on an equal footing with Wenger or Ferguson? You need a decent manager as well as stability. Chelsea and Man City have a history of removing managers due to a few bad results, and in that sense I agree, they've had some amazing managers they've binned because they've only won one trophy that season, now that's insane. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 I've almost completely detached myself from football since the Sunderland game. Having constantly championed the idea of keeping Pardew, I think I'm safely in the 'he's got to go' camp now. When I look at it, I had a bit of faith that he could turn it around - but the main reason for my wanting to keep him was that I didn't believe we could get anyone better. But we're beyond that now. Obviously it will have been discussed to death, but that match was utterly deplorable and resembles a defining point in Pardew's career here. The implications of that result are too great to support him any more, and that's beyond the fact it was a defeat to our biggest rivals. It was an astonishingly poor performance in every single way, to a seriously inferior football team in terms of squad personnel; the fitness, motivation, tactics and general performance was/is as bad as I've ever seen. The way these footballers are being wasted beggars belief. That was the proof of the pudding for me, we will only continue to go backwards under him - he's lost every scrap of faith from me. The only thing that has kept our heads above water is the sheer fact we've got an abundance of top 6 players. He should not be our manager next season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattoon Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 That is exactly where I am right now Yorkie, after January and seeing our players coming back there was a glimmer of hope he could turn it around and I was happy to persevere but after THAT display on Sunday he's completely lost me. It's taken me until now to come back on here and articulate how I feel without filling the page with obseneties! How can a manager not enjoy any sort of success with this crop of players? I've a feeling he'll get at the very least until Christmas but if he's to be replaced we need to give someone a full preseason to get us going again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 Cajun and now Yorkie! The sith grow powerful... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG32 Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 I've almost completely detached myself from football since the Sunderland game. Having constantly championed the idea of keeping Pardew, I think I'm safely in the 'he's got to go' camp now. When I look at it, I had a bit of faith that he could turn it around - but the main reason for my wanting to keep him was that I didn't believe we could get anyone better. But we're beyond that now. Obviously it will have been discussed to death, but that match was utterly deplorable and resembles a defining point in Pardew's career here. The implications of that result are too great to support him any more, and that's beyond the fact it was a defeat to our biggest rivals. It was an astonishingly poor performance in every single way, to a seriously inferior football team in terms of squad personnel; the fitness, motivation, tactics and general performance was/is as bad as I've ever seen. The way these footballers are being wasted beggars belief. That was the proof of the pudding for me, we will only continue to go backwards under him - he's lost every scrap of faith from me. The only thing that has kept our heads above water is the sheer fact we've got an abundance of top 6 players. He should not be our manager next season. Reading at home was my tipping point, the Sunderland game was confirmation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 Cajun and now Yorkie! The sith grow powerful... He's indefensible after that. Gimp... agreed. Reading was the closest I'd come to wanting him out but that result was a catalyst for a resurgence, and I'd still point to that game as the game that 'saved' us - even if we only sneak survival by a point. As you say, the Mackems game has just confirmed it. We're going nowhere with him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beren Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 What would the price actually be overall if we sack Pardew and bring in a new man, compen, contracts etc? I'm guessing it would safely be under £5m? Pardew's pay-off is a year of his contract. So even though the headlines all screamed out about stability due to his eight year deal, in reality it's more like a one year rolling contract. The (alleged?) one-year payout aside, do you think the Ashley regime would be too prideful to sack him having issued an eight-year deal though? I know they're not overly concerned with the desires of/stick from fans, but it'd make them look a bit silly to sack him having issued such a contract (though the silly thing was actually issuing the contract in the first place). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattoon Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 I don't profess to be any kind of footballing expert, however I do understand the basic principals of pass and move, pressing the ball and man/zonal marking, all tactics that seem to elude Pardew. Here's one for the twitter thread, Football 101 by Alan Pardew. Inexcusable! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_R Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 Pardew just never learns. Every match it's: - defensive, rigid formations - Attack with no more than 3-4 men at a time - Keep the defence back. We never push the defence up to compress play. We never have 6 men attacking at once like all the good teams do. We're predictable, awful to watch and lack any movement or creativity at all. Pardew is yet again pinning his hopes on Ben Arfa coming back and doing the work of 3 forwards so we carry a threat without sacrificing his precious defensive borefest setup. It's sickening to think that we're so reliant on HBA being in the side just to look competent in attack, rather than looking competent without him and looking excellent when he's fit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistle17 Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 He's very lucky to still be in the job considering Sunday's quite frankly unforgivable result. A lot of managers before him would have gone for that. I don't see what he's done to prove he deserves to stay on. People forget how woeful we were at times last season, too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deputy Dawg UK Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 i said in another thread i was pretty close to him on Sunday after the game..i made a comment and thought Woodman was going to slaughter me..AP did appear to be upset/concerned after the game but am not sure if he really understood the impact...i had had a few and maybe should not have said what i did ( Considering where i was) but felt I should let him know the reality Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 Reading was my lowest point too, I thought we wouldn't bounce back from that but we (sort of) did. Sunderland was appalling obviously. I've said before that I wouldn't shed a tear if he was sacked, and he's done a lot things I disagree with. But my desire for another managerial circus is also minimal, so I would allow his achievements of last season to buy him another crack at starting afresh next year. Obviously if last season hadn't happened then it would be very easy to say he should be given the chop immediately. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alberto2005 Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 Can't believe how naive I was after seeing the first half vs villa. I thought we were gonna be class from then on. How wrong I was Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG32 Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 i said in another thread i was pretty close to him on Sunday after the game..i made a comment and thought Woodman was going to slaughter me..AP did appear to be upset/concerned after the game but am not sure if he really understood the impact...i had had a few and maybe should not have said what i did ( Considering where i was) but felt I should let him know the reality What did you shout? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG32 Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 Pardew just never learns. Every match it's: - defensive, rigid formations - Attack with no more than 3-4 men at a time - Keep the defence back. We never push the defence up to compress play. We never have 6 men attacking at once like all the good teams do. We're predictable, awful to watch and lack any movement or creativity at all. Pardew is yet again pinning his hopes on Ben Arfa coming back and doing the work of 3 forwards so we carry a threat without sacrificing his precious defensive borefest setup. It's sickening to think that we're so reliant on HBA being in the side just to look competent in attack, rather than looking competent without him and looking excellent when he's fit. Sticks with a defensive style of play but his side keep conceding goals, we have done this all season. Why stick with it for nearly 38 games when it clearly wasn't working after 15 games? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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