AlanSkÃrare Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Well, at least we're more entertaining for the neutral viewers.. In all seriousness, whilst we look a damn sight more dangerous and attractive going forward in a 433/451 for some reason we also are considerably more vulnerable defensively, despite what some people say. Personally I think it is worth persevering with as a tactical setup (although not with a striker shoehorned in a wide position), but for it to work long term it needs better defenders first and foremost, Tiote (or defensive midfield replacement) to focus on his defensive role and hard working wide players that track back when the opposition full back likes to get forward. It's not just a matter of simply organising the frontline differently, it requires a transformation to our entire team dynamics. For all the flack Pardew gets lately, I think he has been badly let down by Ashley & co this summer in terms of not getting the defensive reinforcements he wanted and has massively overachieved last season, mainly thanks to giving our mediocre defenders as much protection as possible. It may have been negative, but at least it was effective. Discuss. I think playing like we did in the first half yesterday is what this philosophy/approach/system/whatever should be all about. Defending through possession. We need to stand better prepared for counter-attacks, something we haven't been exposed to that much over the past season or two because of our defensive and considerably deeper set-up. The problems of keeping a coherent defensive line has been exsposed, with only Coloccini capable of thinking in that dimension. However, we also need quicker players. Anita in midfield is closing down and shutting down space for his opponent really well, in the same manner we used to see Cheick do last season. His role in this system has to be the out-and-out ball winner, sitting in front of the back four and protecting them without any restrictions. His performance yesterday was so different from the one he gave us last season at the Emirates, and the season before. He ate them alive on those occasions, looks like he's being held back by this "don't get booked" stuff. This system needs to be kept, we have the players to play it going forward. We need to learn another defensive approach and the players need to gain more experience while we need players more comfortable on the ball. These past games have given me hope about Pardew again. Like Dave said in another thread, I'm absolutely scared to death that he'll reflect upon these games as games where we were too exposed and now revert back to the old formation and system. But he spoke about having to control possession better to move forward and how we need new players in order to do that. Clearly wasn't given them, even though Anita fits in perfect. Someone like Debuchy and a proper ball playing more physical player to step in along Coloccini would be a start. I'm not saying Mats Hummels, but someone like him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Phil K Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Should we prepare ourselves for another defensive humiliation with Pardew's "Traffic Cone Defence" routine ? That said, maybe a traffic cone would be better than Simpson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colos Short and Curlies Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 4-3-3 or a variation of is our most potent formation, but it does naturally result in the front 3 and attacking midfielder 15-20 yards further upfield putting pressure on the 2 more defensive midfielders and defence. When you have a natural CF playing in a wide position this is exagerated more down his side as he's less likely to be tracking back effectively (see Cisse for the 4th (?) goal (Walcott's second)). Then you also have the issue of Tiote trying to be a complete CM and not just a shield in front of the back 4, its no wonder our RB's lack of positioning and CH's lack of pace is exposed. Debuchy and a pacey CH would help no doubt, as will the return of Ben Arfa on the right, but our midfield 3 still need sorting. Can Tiote revert back to last season's destroyer? Has Anita got the stamina to be the box to box midfielder? Can you play Anita, Cabaye, Marv and Ben Arfa in the same team? Krul Debuchy - Colo - Pacey CH - Santon Tiote Anita Cabaye Ben Arfa Marv Ba/Cisse Is the best we can hope for after Jan, but despite our numbers in CM, I still think we are one box to box CM and a left forward away from having the right personnel to compete with the top 5/6 teams with this formation. We need about 10 new players to play 4-4-2 effectively though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeletor Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Have to agree with the pacey centre half thing. Pardew loves a high line but currently all of our defenders are too slow to recover if they get the offside trap wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 So would Remy ideally be left of Cisse in a 4-3-3 or just up top with him in a 4-4-2? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottledDog Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 So would Remy ideally be left of Cisse in a 4-3-3 or just up top with him in a 4-4-2? http://dudespaper.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/dudebeeper.jpg Whatever works man, whatever works. /Stiflers line up looks the sexy though. Krul Debuchy Taylor Colo Santon Tiote Anita Ben Arfa Cabaye Remy Cisse Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 1 GK 2 CB's 2 Attacking FB's 1 Anchor man The rest just do what you like Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussiemag Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Krul Debuchy. New CB. Colo. Santon Tiote Cabaye. Marveaux HBA. Cisse. Remy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Quick question: how clueless do you have to be to omit Vurnon Anita from our strongest XI based on what we've seen this season? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussiemag Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Quick question: how clueless do you have to be to omit Vurnon Anita from our strongest XI based on what we've seen this season? Was tough ... But I like Marv .. Still think Anita needs a little longer to fully adapt. Anita will be class though... How can anyone be accused of being clueless on a topic as subjective as a fantasy football lineup? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gbs Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Krul Debuchy. New CB. Colo. Santon Tiote Cabaye. Marveaux HBA. Cisse. Remy :thup: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagten Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Krul Debuchy. New CB. Colo. Santon Anita Cabaye. Marveaux HBA. Cisse. Remy FYP Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Quick question: how clueless do you have to be to omit Vurnon Anita from our strongest XI based on what we've seen this season? Was tough ... But I like Marv .. Still think Anita needs a little longer to fully adapt. Anita will be class though... How can anyone be accused of being clueless on a topic as subjective as a fantasy football lineup? I've just seen the same from a few people aside from yourself and find it frustrating. Marveaux has been good, but I remain unconvinced that he's done enough to be an automatic starter. He's a cracking option from the bench/first port of call should any of the midfielders/wide players get injured though. Anita was bought for "significant" money in the summer, has steadily been improving since arriving and was arguably our best player in a poor November/December period. He looks like he'll be a good complement to Cabaye and Tiote in the middle of the park should we ever have them all available again at the same time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussiemag Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Quick question: how clueless do you have to be to omit Vurnon Anita from our strongest XI based on what we've seen this season? I think it depends on where you see Cabaye playing. I think Cabaye offers enough defensively to allow a more creative midfielder to open things up for our forwards (Marveaux). But it's more horses for courses. Against the better sides I would play Anita. But my lineup was directed at a team that would attack the weaker sides. Was tough ... But I like Marv .. Still think Anita needs a little longer to fully adapt. Anita will be class though... How can anyone be accused of being clueless on a topic as subjective as a fantasy football lineup? I've just seen the same from a few people aside from yourself and find it frustrating. Marveaux has been good, but I remain unconvinced that he's done enough to be an automatic starter. He's a cracking option from the bench/first port of call should any of the midfielders/wide players get injured though. Anita was bought for "significant" money in the summer, has steadily been improving since arriving and was arguably our best player in a poor November/December period. He looks like he'll be a good complement to Cabaye and Tiote in the middle of the park should we ever have them all available again at the same time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan_Taylor Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 4-3-3 Remy Cisse HBA 4-4-Hoof to Cisse and Remy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 I don't think Marveaux will start when everyone is available, but considering he can play Left or Right of the attack and AM behind the striker he will play plenty IMO. I expect this when everyone is available..... Krul Debuchy New CB Colo Santon Tiote Anita Cabaye HBA Cisse Remy As said before i would look at getting someone like Sissoko in as he could drive the team forward as well as being a physical presence and replace or provide serious competition to Tiote as quite frankly he doesn't deserve to start based on this season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlelunchbox Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 442 does not automatically equate to hoof ball. You can play any formation and still play hoof ball, it depends on what the manager wants. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeletor Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 We still haven't got the wingers to play 4-4-2 effectively. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlelunchbox Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 I don't think Marveaux will start when everyone is available, but considering he can play Left or Right of the attack and AM behind the striker he will play plenty IMO. I expect this when everyone is available..... Krul Debuchy New CB Colo Santon Tiote Anita Cabaye HBA Cisse Remy As said before i would look at getting someone like Sissoko in as he could drive the team forward as well as being a physical presence and replace or provide serious competition to Tiote as quite frankly he doesn't deserve to start based on this season. I think it will look more like this in Pardew world Debuchy Saylor Colo Santon Hba. Tiote. Anita. Remy Cabaye Cisse Pardew won't start the wide men that far forward. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 442 does not automatically equate to hoof ball. You can play any formation and still play hoof ball, it depends on what the manager wants. Spot on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeletor Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 I don't think Marveaux will start when everyone is available, but considering he can play Left or Right of the attack and AM behind the striker he will play plenty IMO. I expect this when everyone is available..... Krul Debuchy New CB Colo Santon Tiote Anita Cabaye HBA Cisse Remy As said before i would look at getting someone like Sissoko in as he could drive the team forward as well as being a physical presence and replace or provide serious competition to Tiote as quite frankly he doesn't deserve to start based on this season. I think it will look more like this in Pardew world Debuchy Saylor Colo Santon Hba. Tiote. Anita. Cisse Cabaye Remy Pardew won't start the wide men that far forward. FYP Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlelunchbox Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 I don't think Marveaux will start when everyone is available, but considering he can play Left or Right of the attack and AM behind the striker he will play plenty IMO. I expect this when everyone is available..... Krul Debuchy New CB Colo Santon Tiote Anita Cabaye HBA Cisse Remy As said before i would look at getting someone like Sissoko in as he could drive the team forward as well as being a physical presence and replace or provide serious competition to Tiote as quite frankly he doesn't deserve to start based on this season. I think it will look more like this in Pardew world Debuchy Saylor Colo Santon Hba. Tiote. Anita. Cisse Cabaye Remy Pardew won't start the wide men that far forward. FYP Lol that would not surprise me, it's those type of tactics that Pardew does which gets the fans completely riled. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 I don't think Marveaux will start when everyone is available, but considering he can play Left or Right of the attack and AM behind the striker he will play plenty IMO. I expect this when everyone is available..... Krul Debuchy New CB Colo Santon Tiote Anita Cabaye HBA Cisse Remy As said before i would look at getting someone like Sissoko in as he could drive the team forward as well as being a physical presence and replace or provide serious competition to Tiote as quite frankly he doesn't deserve to start based on this season. I think it will look more like this in Pardew world Debuchy Saylor Colo Santon Hba. Tiote. Anita. Remy Cabaye Cisse Pardew won't start the wide men that far forward. Aye the positions were not meant to be realistic, just giving an idea how i think we would line up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 We still haven't got the wingers to play 4-4-2 effectively. Especially if Remy (right footed) plays on the left and HBA (left footed) plays on the right. They'll both be dangerous cutting in for goals, but the service to Cisse isn't likely to improve that much. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan_Taylor Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Everyone fit and available. Krul Debuchy Colo Saylor Santon Tiote Cabaye Anita Remy Cisse HBA Cabaye in a deep lying play maker roll. Tiote breaking play up (and fuck all else) and Anita playing box-to-box. Short sharp service into bombing on fullbacks and wide men. Service to Cisse from potentially 6 sources. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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