Massadio Haïdara

[Pata]

First of all, Haidara is very good from the two games I've seen of him. happy for him to give h a taste of premier league match.

 

Second of all, Santon is definitely a good player but I don't see him as a great defender but more of a winger who likes to provide assisted and go for a goal himself sometimes. I read somewhere where it said that he actually started as a striker when he was much younger. I don't know how he ended up ad a RB but you can see he likes to play up the field. I wouldn't mind seeing him in place of Jonas.

 

 

Most talented players are played at attacking positions when they are kids. No one is going to put their best player to play as fullback.

[Zero]

I disagree. The full back must have at least "fair" ball playing ability that will not disrupt the team's offense. Simpson / Debuchy is the best example.  Not to suggest Santon is preferred over Haidara but if the priority is "a good defender" over anything else then Simpson would be preferred over Debuchy which is obviously not the case.

 

 

You see, I disagree. Debuchy is at least as solid defensively as Danny when he's only 3 months into his PL career. He'll get better.

 

For me, the only reason why Cole is still #1 at LB for England is because he's superb defensively.

 

He is not. While i agree he may get better, so far he is worse than Danny in terms of defense. Of course Debuchy is a much better player and must be our 1st choice right back. No doubt.

 

Cole is superb at both offense and defense.  His overlap was devastating when he's on his prime.

[Pata]

IMO there's no way Simpson is better defensively than Debuchy.

[Guest bimpy474]

IMO there's no way Simpson is better defensively than Debuchy.

 

Totally correct, Debuchy is better at everything.

[Guest TC_16]

For me, the only reason why Cole is still #1 at LB for England is because he's superb defensively.

 

That's usually why defenders are picked like.

[The College Dropout]

I disagree. The full back must have at least "fair" ball playing ability that will not disrupt the team's offense. Simpson / Debuchy is the best example.  Not to suggest Santon is preferred over Haidara but if the priority is "a good defender" over anything else then Simpson would be preferred over Debuchy which is obviously not the case.

 

 

You see, I disagree. Debuchy is at least as solid defensively as Danny when he's only 3 months into his PL career. He'll get better.

 

For me, the only reason why Cole is still #1 at LB for England is because he's superb defensively.

 

He is not. While i agree he may get better, so far he is worse than Danny in terms of defense. Of course Debuchy is a much better player and must be our 1st choice right back. No doubt.

 

Cole is superb at both offense and defense.  His overlap was devastating when he's on his prime.

 

I'm talking about now. Baines is better in attack, Cashley better in defence. Cashley gets the nod.

 

Fundamentally I disagree with you. 95% of top fullbacks are great defensively. At the highest level you would play the better defensive fullback 90% of the time.

[The College Dropout]

For me, the only reason why Cole is still #1 at LB for England is because he's superb defensively.

 

That's usually why defenders are picked like.

 

 

Please go through the threads of our other fullbacks. People have told me fullback is 50% defence 50% attack

[Mole_Toonfan]

The only time Debuchy looked poor in defense was against Villa, other than that i think he's been quite dominant in most games.

 

Against Swansea he basically owned the entire flank, looking great offensively but also not giving Swansea a sniff defensively.

[Guest TC_16]

The only time Debuchy looked poor in defense was against Villa, other than that i think he's been quite dominant in most games.

 

Against Swansea he basically owned the entire flank, looking great offensively but also not giving Swansea a sniff defensively.

 

Didn't he let Routledge stick the cross in for the winner?

[Hanshithispantz]

It's daft to suggest that a fullback is either 50-50 defence/attack OR should be picked picked primarily for defensive qualities. It depends entirely on the team and their style of play.

 

Ultimately though any side looking to play football on the front foot would take a full back who can attack over one who can defend (a modicum of defensive ability is obviously a given).

[The College Dropout]

How many top fullbacks are poor defensively? How many top sides carry a poor defensive fullback?

 

Unless he's absolutely amazing going forward, it's not good enough. Let's take away Barca from the examples, they have 70% of the ball. Most team are much close to 50/50.

 

If there's no quality option, most teams will go for an Arbeloa/Abidal or a ball playing CB like Ivanovic/Ramos rather than a Cicinho.

[Tiresias]

Debuchey is better than Simpson defensively because he will not give the ball away endlessly with silly hoofs out of the stadium, or trying to pass it badly. I am unconvinced he is poorer defensively in terms of tracking wingers too.

 

Santon definitely needs a rest, he's very young and played a lot of games. I think first half of the season he had improved his defensive work a lot personally compared to last season, he's just dropped off and I'd be for giving Haidara a chance and let Santon rest off. Doesn't mean I rate Haidara more, haven't seen enough of him, I really rate Santon, but he is young still, not got the stamina yet for a full season going at full pelt imo.

[Andymc1]

How many top fullbacks are poor defensively? How many top sides carry a poor defensive fullback?

 

Unless he's absolutely amazing going forward, it's not good enough. Let's take away Barca from the examples, they have 70% of the ball. Most team are much close to 50/50.

 

If there's no quality option, most teams will go for an Arbeloa/Abidal or a ball playing CB like Ivanovic/Ramos rather than a Cicinho.

 

[Hanshithispantz]

None of those players are poor going forward though so it's pretty irrelevant. The wouldn't want to play a Cicinho just as they wouldn't want to play a Tony Hibbert (I know which one they would choose given the choice though).

 

Arguably the best fullbacks in the world at the minute are hardly noted for their defensive ability, are they?

[Mole_Toonfan]

Cicinho is just bad full stop tbf, just like Andre Santos etc etc he can't attack or defend he's just crap.

 

Also most CL teams will prefer aggressive fullbacks who contribute offensively to defensively solid who offer little going forward these days.

 

Bayern have Alaba and Lahm, Dortmund has Piszczek and Schmelzer, Milan have two offensively minded fullbacks too i could go on and on with this.

 

Obviously you have to be able to defend but if your not offering enough offensively you are nothing at the top level nowadays.

 

Even Madrid while they have Arbeloa now they are screaming for a new RB who overlap and support the attack, ask any Madrid fan and they will all say the same things.... lack width to break down deep defenses and need a new RB.

 

One of the most startling differences i noticed between Bayern and Arsenal, was Bayern's fullbacks they gave the team so many more offensive options and overlapped at will when Ribery and Muller went inside. Arsenal had Sagna and Vermealen so were forced to go through the middle at all times and was easy for Bayern to defend.

 

 

 

 

 

[Hanshithispantz]

The current fullbacks for the top 7 sides in the Premiership...

 

Evra, Rafael, Zabaleta, Clichy, Walker, Ekotto, Ivanovic, Cole, Sagna, Monreal, Baines, Coleman, Johnson, Enrique

 

You could say 3, at a push 4 of those players are selected for their defensive ability.

[Mole_Toonfan]

Even players like Enrique, Zabaleta, Ivanovic, Cole etc etc who are strong defensively offer a lot to their teams from an offensive point of view.

 

If you can't attack at this level as shown with Simpson you just stop your teams attacks in its tracks.

 

Its quite important to have fullbacks who are able to maintain the flow and pressure of attacks so you can pin teams back.

 

You can't maintain pressure if you have fullbacks who can't give extra offensive prowess and if you can't maintain pressure you can't control games and i you can't control games then your defense will be under pressure.

 

I like good old fashioned defenders as much as the next guy but you need to be able to attack too, which is why i'm waiting to see what Haidara is capable of offensively but judging him fully as a player.

[The College Dropout]

Mole - all the names you listed work hard defensively. They can all defend very well.

 

hans - only Walker, Clichy, Baines & Coleman on that list are questionable defensively. The rest are meant to be rock solid defensively.

 

Everton rarely keep clean sheets. The others a weaknesses in their sides.

[The College Dropout]

Even players like Enrique, Zabaleta, Ivanovic, Cole etc etc who are strong defensively offer a lot to their teams from an offensive point of view.

 

If you can't attack at this level as shown with Simpson you just stop your teams attacks in its tracks.

 

Its quite important to have fullbacks who are able to maintain the flow and pressure of attacks so you can pin teams back.

 

You can't maintain pressure if you have fullbacks who can't give extra offensive prowess and if you can't maintain pressure you can't control games and i you can't control games then your defense will be under pressure.

 

I like good old fashioned defenders as much as the next guy but you need to be able to attack too, which is why i'm waiting to see what Haidara is capable of offensively but judging him fully as a player.

 

Yes it is important to attack. My point is, fundamentally a fullback must be able to defend. When they're young they must work hard on this side of the game if it does not come naturally.

 

Before SAF trusted that Rafael could defend at the level needed, he would play CB's in that position in big games.

 

Madrid could easily play an attacking midfielder at RB. A Valencia type player who they could shoe-horn at RB but no, until they can find the full package - they are going with the defender first.

[Mole_Toonfan]

Yes it is important to attack. My point is, fundamentally a fullback must be able to defend.

 

I agree with that, when you used the Arbeloa comparison i got a bit confused because he can't attack

 

Pretty sure if a RB who do what Marcelo or Coentrao do came available they would snap him up pretty quickly.

[Hanshithispantz]

Even players like Enrique, Zabaleta, Ivanovic, Cole etc etc who are strong defensively offer a lot to their teams from an offensive point of view.

 

If you can't attack at this level as shown with Simpson you just stop your teams attacks in its tracks.

 

Its quite important to have fullbacks who are able to maintain the flow and pressure of attacks so you can pin teams back.

 

You can't maintain pressure if you have fullbacks who can't give extra offensive prowess and if you can't maintain pressure you can't control games and i you can't control games then your defense will be under pressure.

 

I like good old fashioned defenders as much as the next guy but you need to be able to attack too, which is why i'm waiting to see what Haidara is capable of offensively but judging him fully as a player.

 

Yes it is important to attack. My point is, fundamentally a fullback must be able to defend. When they're young they must work hard on this side of the game if it does not come naturally.

 

Before SAF trusted that Rafael could defend at the level needed, he would play CB's in that position in big games.

 

Madrid could easily play an attacking midfielder at RB. A Valencia type player who they could shoe-horn at RB but no, until they can find the full package - they are going with the defender first.

So your point is that teams will play a defensive player at fullback instead of a midfielder during an injury crisis, not that a fullbacks is 50-50 attack and defend?

[Hanshithispantz]

Yes it is important to attack. My point is, fundamentally a fullback must be able to defend.

 

I agree with that, when you used the Arbeloa comparison i got a bit confused because he can't attack

 

Pretty sure if a RB who do what Marcelo or Coentrao do came available they would snap him up pretty quickly.

He didn't though until that post

 

Of course a fullback should be able to defend ffs, nobody is suggesting that you can just stick a right forward at right back and expect him to do a job

 

If all a fullback can do is defend and then hoof the ball, he's a poor fullback. If all a fullback can do is attack but cannot defend in any shape of form, he's a winger... Any half decent fullback should be able to both attack and defend effectively, both are equally as important to the side as the other.

[Mole_Toonfan]

Yes it is important to attack. My point is, fundamentally a fullback must be able to defend.

 

I agree with that, when you used the Arbeloa comparison i got a bit confused because he can't attack

 

Pretty sure if a RB who do what Marcelo or Coentrao do came available they would snap him up pretty quickly.

He didn't though until that post

 

Of course a fullback should be able to defend ffs, nobody is suggesting that you can just stick a right forward at right back and expect him to do a job

 

If all a fullback can do is defend and then hoof the ball, he's a poor fullback. If all a fullback can do is attack but cannot defend in any shape of form, he's a winger... Any half decent fullback should be able to both attack and defend effectively, both are equally as important to the side as the other.

 

[Amir_9]

Pretty sure we will see him against Anzhi again and if he puts in another good performance I'd like to see him start against Wigan.

[EthiGeordie]

Amazing again. Needs to start games...