A sad day

[brummie]

Spurs are always going to make more money per head by virtue of the fact they're in London. They're not making it because they sell more food and drink to those 36k punters, they're making it because their tickets are significantly more expensive and so are their corporate packages (which they can sell far easier).

 

I honestly don't think it is possible to compete for the title without an artificial source of huge amounts of money. It doesn't really matter how much you generate yourselves, if someone comes along like the Man City people, then you're just not going to be able to match them.

 

Look at Arsenal, one of the most profitable clubs in the world, and they can't compete at the top level. They've become the Wigan of the CL places.

 

I think a lot of owners have realised it's not worth it now. They can invest tens of millions of pounds of their own money, and for what? to finish 8th instead of 10th? Where is the incentive for anyone (who isnt Man City rich or Abrahmovich rich and Abrahmovich crazy) to invest that sort of extra money in someone like Everton?

 

What are they ultimately trying to do? Get into the Champions League? And then what? How much more money do you need to invest to compete well in the CL and to stay in it?

 

It must be great to be one of the mentally monied clubs these days, but if I were Ashley or Lerner or Coates or whichever club owner, I wouldn't be pouring huge amounts of my own money into a club, either, because however much you put in, it is almost certainly not going to be enough.

 

Money has been hugely important in the English game for years now, that's not new, but I do think that the really, really big changing point was when out of nowhere, the Man City owners appeared and took the spending to a whole new level. That was the point at which having a billionaire owner wasn't enough, you now needed a multi-billionaire.

 

agree of course brummie, i brought these figures up to show the difference between the market spurs (for example) are operating in and our own (and yours, i'd guess).

 

there's nothing to say we cant attack the top 4/5 spots, last season showed that, but if and when it happens it should be recognised for the achievement it is rather than seen as things being put right "finally" in spite of having laurel and hardy running the club

 

It's sad, isn't it, when you look at the degree to which fourth place and above is the new silverware.

 

I understand it all, but it's really so depressing.

 

Look at Wenger's sheer relief at managing to keep Arsenal in the top four. If a club like Arsenal are that way, then really, it's all very sad indeed.

 

I am so, so glad I am lucky enough to be old enough to have seen my team win the title and the EC, because anyone born only a few years after me is never going to have the chance to see Villa do that in their lifetimes, barring some sort of source of vast amounts of free money pouring investment into the club.

[Ryan_Taylor]

I'm not sure what my issue is with football, but I find my self feeling very apathetic towards it all. My club are seemingly happy to not even bother trying to win a cup or to compete with 10 of the teams in the league. The rest of the league are seemingly competing for 5th. The national team are a joke with no sign of change on the horizon. I'm not at all sure what it is I'm supposed to be enjoying anymore. I barely enjoy playing anymore either.

 

have you tried drugs?  passes the time, you might like em

 

[merlin]

None of the top clubs have to resort to cheap tickets in order to fill their stadiums - yes..?

 

Because they win stuff. We almost got relegated and finished with the 3rd highest average attendance so they're doing something right.

 

 

 

Also, what does he mean by top clubs? Man United sell out every week but then they've got lines of snap happy Asian chappies (forgive me oldtype) queuing for tickets week after week, similar for Liverpool just replace Asian with Irish. The London clubs seem quite secure, but then they have absolutely mammoth fanbases right on their doorstep. Every other club in the league is either playing week on week with an indeterminate number of empty seats in their ground or are looking at ways to get fans through the door.

 

Anyone who criticises a club for making it affordable to supporters to get through the turnstiles and watch their team, especially in this financial climate, is a pillock.

 

Anyone who thinks clubs fill their stadiums for any other reason than that they are successful is the REAL pillock

 

http://espnfc.com/stats/attendance/_/league/eng.1/barclays-premier-league

 

3rd in that table and almost relegated in the real table. Odd.

 

Did you actually read the full content of my post re NUFC..? We had finished 5th in the previous season, qualified for Europe and people had no expectation that the team would play as badly.

 

Also, a large number of ST holders had bought tickets for 3 seasons - they aren't going to chuck them away until they've had the majority of use from them...also, wait and see what happens if we have another season like the last one.

 

Your figures don't prove a thing over the long term - Liverpool and Spurs - to mention but 2 clubs - intend to either extend or rebuild their stadiums to a bigger capacity and then we'll see how our attendances stand up if we remain also-rans whilst they challenge for Top 4/Cups.

We could easily fill a stadium of 75,000 - just as SJH wanted to build at Leazes Park in 1995 - were we to be competing at the top level rather than being mid-table johnny-come-latelys and losing in the FA Cup 3rd round to the likes of Brighton in successive years...

[Jack Flash]

None of the top clubs have to resort to cheap tickets in order to fill their stadiums - yes..?

 

Because they win stuff. We almost got relegated and finished with the 3rd highest average attendance so they're doing something right.

 

 

 

Also, what does he mean by top clubs? Man United sell out every week but then they've got lines of snap happy Asian chappies (forgive me oldtype) queuing for tickets week after week, similar for Liverpool just replace Asian with Irish. The London clubs seem quite secure, but then they have absolutely mammoth fanbases right on their doorstep. Every other club in the league is either playing week on week with an indeterminate number of empty seats in their ground or are looking at ways to get fans through the door.

 

Anyone who criticises a club for making it affordable to supporters to get through the turnstiles and watch their team, especially in this financial climate, is a pillock.

 

Anyone who thinks clubs fill their stadiums for any other reason than that they are successful is the REAL pillock

 

http://espnfc.com/stats/attendance/_/league/eng.1/barclays-premier-league

 

3rd in that table and almost relegated in the real table. Odd.

 

Did you actually read the full content of my post re NUFC..? We had finished 5th in the previous season, qualified for Europe and people had no expectation that the team would play as badly.

 

Also, a large number of ST holders had bought tickets for 3 seasons - they aren't going to chuck them away until they've had the majority of use from them...also, wait and see what happens if we have another season like the last one.

 

Your figures don't prove a thing over the long term - Liverpool and Spurs - to mention but 2 clubs - intend to either extend or rebuild their stadiums to a bigger capacity and then we'll see how our attendances stand up if we remain also-rans whilst they challenge for Top 4/Cups.

We could easily fill a stadium of 75,000 - just as SJH wanted to build at Leazes Park in 1995 - were we to be competing at the top level rather than being mid-table johnny-come-latelys and losing in the FA Cup 3rd round to the likes of Brighton in successive years...

 

Our average attendances are always excellent for (very often) no reason. We got 48,750 the year we went down, 43,384 in the Championship and 47,718 our first year back. How many clubs would get those numbers in those circumstances? How many clubs would still be selling out 52,000 seats in a relegation fight? None imo.

 

We've got absolutely zero to play for and to look forward to next year and it'll still be mostly full.

[merlin]

Good post HTT but you've taken it too far. Ashley won't splash the cash to push us right to the top, that's true. But I think it's a conclusion too far to say we didn't want to finish fifth or that we don't want to achieve success because it will raise expectations.

 

I'm pretty sure Ashley wants as much success as he can possibly get. He just won't risk a load more of his own money to get it.

 

I agree we have massive potential, but the landscape of football has changed. Our strategy could feasibly see us competing up the top end, around 5th-8th for example. But to break the CL places you really need to spend beyond your means these days. You might think we should, but I can't really argue for this race to see who can spend the most money they don't have. Some clubs are lucky to have owners who don't mind propping everything up with their personal wealth or the wealth of their company/country.

 

I think people are reading too much into the decision to keep Pardew. It doesn't mean Ashley will accept 4th bottom forever. That doesn't seem to fit with his personality or his style of doing business at all. Aye, Sports Direct is cheap and nasty, but it's also massively successful and makes a tonne of money.

 

We're also assembling a squad of absolutely excellent young players, possibly the best we've had in recent times.

 

We should be having a proper go at a cup trophy though, that's one thing I would definitely change.

 

 

 

I agree with the piece about the Cups, but then, who in their right mind wouldn't ?  Oh, wait.....!

 

However, whilst I also agree that football has changed because of the likes of Man C, Chelsea and Abramovitch had started that long before the Makhtoums came along.

 

Where I cannot agree is where you claim that we have the best crop of young players in recent times - none of the so-called 'prospects' seem up to playing in the PL and I remember when we won the FA Youth Cup in 1985 with the so-called 'best for years'....only Gazza went on to fulfill his potential, Paul Stephenson looked like being a top winger until he got injured against Villa in early 86, and Joe Allon made a few appearances for Chelsea and quite a few for Hartlepool .....the rest faded into obscurity and our current Juniors have just been dumped from the FA Youth Cup so I have difficulty seeing where these young gems are coming from.

 

I am not convinced that Campbell is going to make it either - too small and lightweight but still has a chance.

[Dr Venkman]

 

Thankfully, we are being ran towards an exit strategy.

 

That's why I hope we can get as much as possible for the likes of Cabaye. Again, the sonner the fat cunt claws back what he's 'owed' the better meaning he can sooner fuck off.

 

Yep.

[Guest Roger Kint]

 

Thankfully, we are being ran towards an exit strategy.

 

That's why I hope we can get as much as possible for the likes of Cabaye. Again, the sonner the fat cunt claws back what he's 'owed' the better meaning he can sooner fuck off.

 

Yep.

 

Aye everyone knows the best business men around sell up when their companies start producing profits year on year

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I see can't any evidence of an exit strategy at all, it's wishful thinking. Well wishful if you can think of someone better to own us.

[Guest Roger Kint]

I can't any evidence of an exit strategy at all, it's wishful thinking. Well wishful if you can think of someone better to own us.

 

This is it. The mental idea that he will just walk away first sign of a bid is baffling, he will rightly ask for top dollar to sell a successful business which nobody will pay.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Also, I just think that if we're doing well and he's not subsidising us anymore, he won't want to sell up anyway. Why would he, because of some fan stick he got in the past? I still think he bought us for entertainment (along with the SD links) and if we're doing better he'll have that.

[Guest Roger Kint]

Also, I just think that if we're doing well and he's not subsidising us anymore, he won't want to sell up anyway. Why would he, because of some fan stick he got in the past? I still think he bought us for entertainment (along with the SD links) and if we're doing better he'll have that.

 

Thats true, i genuinely dont think it bothered him one bit that he got stick anyway, he must have been laughing that people were still willing to coming back. The SD advertising and yes i agree the entertainment(insert statutory Pardew remark here) are also big factors why he would be more likely to stay.

[Guest neesy111]

Having Llambias as MD is a bigger problem than Ashley at the moment.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Having Llambias as MD is a bigger problem than Ashley at the moment.

 

He's a bit of a dodgy character I agree, but is there any specific that someone else would do differently? Hard to say I know.

[loki679]

Spurs are always going to make more money per head by virtue of the fact they're in London. They're not making it because they sell more food and drink to those 36k punters, they're making it because their tickets are significantly more expensive and so are their corporate packages (which they can sell far easier).

 

I honestly don't think it is possible to compete for the title without an artificial source of huge amounts of money. It doesn't really matter how much you generate yourselves, if someone comes along like the Man City people, then you're just not going to be able to match them.

 

Look at Arsenal, one of the most profitable clubs in the world, and they can't compete at the top level. They've become the Wigan of the CL places.

 

I think a lot of owners have realised it's not worth it now. They can invest tens of millions of pounds of their own money, and for what? to finish 8th instead of 10th? Where is the incentive for anyone (who isnt Man City rich or Abrahmovich rich and Abrahmovich crazy) to invest that sort of extra money in someone like Everton?

 

What are they ultimately trying to do? Get into the Champions League? And then what? How much more money do you need to invest to compete well in the CL and to stay in it?

 

It must be great to be one of the mentally monied clubs these days, but if I were Ashley or Lerner or Coates or whichever club owner, I wouldn't be pouring huge amounts of my own money into a club, either, because however much you put in, it is almost certainly not going to be enough.

 

Money has been hugely important in the English game for years now, that's not new, but I do think that the really, really big changing point was when out of nowhere, the Man City owners appeared and took the spending to a whole new level. That was the point at which having a billionaire owner wasn't enough, you now needed a multi-billionaire.

 

agree of course brummie, i brought these figures up to show the difference between the market spurs (for example) are operating in and our own (and yours, i'd guess).

 

there's nothing to say we cant attack the top 4/5 spots, last season showed that, but if and when it happens it should be recognised for the achievement it is rather than seen as things being put right "finally" in spite of having laurel and hardy running the club

 

It's sad, isn't it, when you look at the degree to which fourth place and above is the new silverware.

 

I understand it all, but it's really so depressing.

 

Look at Wenger's sheer relief at managing to keep Arsenal in the top four. If a club like Arsenal are that way, then really, it's all very sad indeed.

 

I am so, so glad I am lucky enough to be old enough to have seen my team win the title and the EC, because anyone born only a few years after me is never going to have the chance to see Villa do that in their lifetimes, barring some sort of source of vast amounts of free money pouring investment into the club.

 

 

Sad reflection of  society really, all about the money.

[Wallace]

Also, I just think that if we're doing well and he's not subsidising us anymore, he won't want to sell up anyway. Why would he, because of some fan stick he got in the past? I still think he bought us for entertainment (along with the SD links) and if we're doing better he'll have that.

 

He doesn't seem to attend many games these days.