Guest bimpy474 Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 This is how everyone will play in a few years in this country i'm convinced of it. I'm refeering and coaching kids and the U7's to U10's age group are playing 7 a-side, but the transition to 11 a-side has now changed. U11's to U14's will now play 9 a-side. I've been taking close notice of it and every single 9 a-side team i've refeered or watched are playing a 3-3-2 or a 3-4-1 system due to using a smaller sized pitch. And after asking dozens of managers what system they intend to use when they move up to 11 a-side, nearly all of them said they will stick with a 3-5-2/3-4-3 system, obviously tweaked to their own liking (sweeper/wing backs etc). I give it ten years and players and coaches will all be conditioned to playing this way and for once i see a grassroots thing going up to the top rather than something filtering down the other way. The kids are now playing in way that they will only ever know, like us older ones who did nothing but 11 a-side and 4-4-2. It's going to be natural for kids in this country to be comfortable playing a formation that has barely been used in English football. Is it a good thing ?, i think so. The one positive i've noticed, no longer when the ball gets to a full back does he hump it up the line. Now when the 3 at the back get the ball, they are narrower and aren't looking to hoy it, maybe because they are infield more, i'm not sure why but it's certainly does encourage more passing. Triangles, short passing and movement are much more evident playing the way it is now. Much more than the old 11 a-side i've seen in kids football for the last 20 years. Just wondered about the guys and gals on here with kids who play, and their thoughts and observations on it. I'm hoping this isn't a NWOAT. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MW Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Interesting. I however do not fit your criteria Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdckelly Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 systems are overblown in importance imho, its not about how they line up blah blah blah but the players and the intent of the manager that counts more than anything. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 I personally love 3 at the back systems when done right. First of all it allows for an extra attacker/midfielder which helps build attacks and allows for more control and they are usually very fluid and adaptable especially 3-5-2 as at times it can become 5-3-2 or other variations of that system. Also with football becoming more about the midfield battle its imperative to have as many bodies in midfield as possible to control the game. Juventus are a fine example of using the system correctly, when Chelsea played them and got battered they just couldn't compete with the overwhelming numbers coming at them from all angles. It would be really nice to see like in the Ajax academy that our kids and coaches for that matter are taught various different systems for more fluid play and adaptive styles. Obviously the rigidness of some of our set ups isn't really going down a treat and personally support such a change, obviously like all systems you need the correct players to fit it otherwise it would fall flat on its face but going forward it could it can only help us going away from rigid systems. Not just talking about 4-4-2 either but even when we use 4-3-3 at international its still rigid as hell and quite frankly defeating the purpose of it to begin with, so hopefully in the generations to come our players and our coaches are more adaptable and fluid in their thinking. Also brings up another point when was the last time we had a coach for the England football team who was able to adapt to different systems with fluidity? Probably Glenn Hoddle and where did he play and coach during his career other than England? France. Theres a fundamental issue in this country with how kids how coached and hopefully in the future this can be eradicated and we can enjoy more success at the international level but also bring through more kids who are not Shola Ameobi. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 I'm quite a fan of 3 at the back too mate Another thing i've noticed, the managers no longer seemed to see the two centre halfs as the kids who could kick it hardest and farthest. Now with 3 in there, the middle central defender is being picked out as a ball player and organiser. I've been really encouraged by what i've seen so far. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 systems are overblown in importance imho, its not about how they line up blah blah blah but the players and the intent of the manager that counts more than anything. They are higher up but kids football is about keeping it simple to begin with, and for me so far the kids are playing far more passing football because they are lining up in a 3 at the back. Smaller pitch helps but it's not that alone. At the kids level using 3 has made the coaches think about more, approach the game in a different way. It can only be good imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucaAltieri Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 These things move in cycles. 4-4-2 was the standard, but I'd argue the best teams in Europe mostly play 4-5-1 now. They switched to 4-5-1 as a means of dealing with a 4-4-2 formation. Now we're moving towards more 3-5-2 formations as a way of dealing with a 4-5-1. I'm confident you're right and we'll see 3-5-2 becoming more of a standard over the next few years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 I'm quite a fan of 3 at the back too mate Another thing i've noticed, the managers no longer seemed to see the two centre halfs as the kids who could kick it hardest and farthest. Now with 3 in there, the middle central defender is being picked out as a ball player and organiser. I've been really encouraged by what i've seen so far. Good, because thats how i have seen all the best teams use it. To use the Juventus example again when ever watch them i see Bonucci bringing the ball out from the back driving into midfield and almost acting like another playmaker pinging passes short and long into the midfield or the front line. I must say i'm quite happy to hear these positive vibes and would hope we will see dividence at some point as it all sounds very good and much better than the crap i saw growing up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 These things move in cycles. 4-4-2 was the standard, but I'd argue the best teams in Europe mostly play 4-5-1 now. They switched to 4-5-1 as a means of dealing with a 4-4-2 formation. Now we're moving towards more 3-5-2 formations as a way of dealing with a 4-5-1. I'm confident you're right and we'll see 3-5-2 becoming more of a standard over the next few years. Yeah thats about right. My point is that the kids who play from the ages of 7 now, all they will be playing is 3 at the back. It's unavoidable imo because of the 9 a-side step between mini soccer and full sided teams. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 I'm quite a fan of 3 at the back too mate Another thing i've noticed, the managers no longer seemed to see the two centre halfs as the kids who could kick it hardest and farthest. Now with 3 in there, the middle central defender is being picked out as a ball player and organiser. I've been really encouraged by what i've seen so far. Good, because thats how i have seen all the best teams use it. To use the Juventus example again when ever watch them i see Bonucci bringing the ball out from the back driving into midfield and almost acting like another playmaker pinging passes short and long into the midfield or the front line. I must say i'm quite happy to hear these positive vibes and would hope we will see dividence at some point as it all sounds very good and much better than the crap i saw growing up. I've not as yet seen any draw backs, and i was a firm believer in 11 a-side at all ages over say 9 years of age. 9 a-side on a medium sized pitch for 3 or 4 seasons is going to change the thinking in our kids, coaches and the future of our game, i'm certain of that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdckelly Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 for me these system things go in and out of fashion based on what was used in the last world cup, 4231 was used a fair bit there so suddenly everyones using it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 for me these system things go in and out of fashion based on what was used in the last world cup, 4231 was used a fair bit there so suddenly everyones using it I know at senior level, but my point is the 9 a-side is going to be standard for all kids leagues and will change everything. It's not hard to see why other countries produce good footballers, who can keep the ball because they have used this kind of thing themselves at younger level for years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistle17 Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Juventus 3-5-2 with Pirlo in the 'quaterback' role is great to watch. All about the right personnel, though. Interesting point though, bimpy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
morpeth mag Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Krul Taylor. Colo. MVM Debuchy. Anita. Cabaye. Santon HBA. Cisse. Marv Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest maccan Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Krul Taylor. Colo. MVM Debuchy. Anita. Cabaye. Santon HBA. Cisse. Marv Like this!!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 I like Napoli's 3-4-2-1, where the wingbacks are free to bomb forward (a lot - one will frequently cross to the other) while the two centre mids sit and protect the back three. Their outer centre halves, particularly Campagnaro, bring the ball out to a ridiculous degree too, providing width and overloading midfield from time to time. Wigan's DLC and DRC do that too. Having a natural libero like Colo about would've provided a good opportunity to play a system like that but it looks like he'll be off before long now. I briefly coached a pub side and had us playing 3-4-1-2 but that was more a daft experiment aimed at exploiting the limitations of pub footballers than anything else. We'd defend more compactly from back to front, and side to side, than you could ever get away with at a decent level, knowing that there was very little chance of anyone playing a superb crossfield pass or perfectly judged ball over the top, and as long as our focus was on making teams play around us, down the wings, we could get away with a large gap on the far side and hence a back three as opposed to four. The extra man we earned by doing that we stuck behind the strikers and tried to overload opposing centre halves. Wingbacks were instructed to pivot, going forward one at a time, with the defending wingback covering an enormous area on the weak side of the pitch. Again, if you tried that against decent sides they'd find the space every time and murder you but your pub fullback doesn't tend to play many 50 yard crossfield passes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 oh yeah - Aston Villa seem to have changed to 532 (unless they've played it before the other night and I haven't noticed) and looked vastly improved against West Brom. Ominous edit: looks like they used it with some success v QPR too Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokko Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 3 at the back will go down like a shit sarnie here, just like last time we tried it under Bobby. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Yeah not sure this is the time for tactical experimentation. Even if it half-worked and seemed like it could have a future, if we happened to lose it'd provoke a huge shitstorm. Will be interesting to see what happens at Villa, and indeed whether they keep their 532 against us. I don't see why they wouldn't after the weekend, in which case the best thing we can do is play 4-3-3 with Obertan and Jonas and pin their wingbacks back / make them work like dogs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokko Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Yeah not sure this is the time for tactical experimentation. Even if it half-worked and seemed like it could have a future, if we happened to lose it'd provoke a huge shitstorm. Will be interesting to see what happens at Villa, and indeed whether they keep their 532 against us. I don't see why they wouldn't after the weekend, in which case the best thing we can do is play 4-3-3 with Obertan and Jonas and pin their wingbacks back / make them work like dogs. Brummie will be the best judge, however i think we all might have our eye on Villa over the next couple of games. Santon would be a good wingback imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 He's about as natural a wingback as you'll find Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Banaloona Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 This is how everyone will play in a few years in this country i'm convinced of it. I'm refeering and coaching kids and the U7's to U10's age group are playing 7 a-side, but the transition to 11 a-side has now changed. U11's to U14's will now play 9 a-side. I've been taking close notice of it and every single 9 a-side team i've refeered or watched are playing a 3-3-2 or a 3-4-1 system due to using a smaller sized pitch. And after asking dozens of managers what system they intend to use when they move up to 11 a-side, nearly all of them said they will stick with a 3-5-2/3-4-3 system, obviously tweaked to their own liking (sweeper/wing backs etc). I give it ten years and players and coaches will all be conditioned to playing this way and for once i see a grassroots thing going up to the top rather than something filtering down the other way. The kids are now playing in way that they will only ever know, like us older ones who did nothing but 11 a-side and 4-4-2. It's going to be natural for kids in this country to be comfortable playing a formation that has barely been used in English football. Is it a good thing ?, i think so. The one positive i've noticed, no longer when the ball gets to a full back does he hump it up the line. Now when the 3 at the back get the ball, they are narrower and aren't looking to hoy it, maybe because they are infield more, i'm not sure why but it's certainly does encourage more passing. Triangles, short passing and movement are much more evident playing the way it is now. Much more than the old 11 a-side i've seen in kids football for the last 20 years. Just wondered about the guys and gals on here with kids who play, and their thoughts and observations on it. I'm hoping this isn't a NWOAT. I currently work for an academy outside England and have done for over 5 years now. In the country I work in, at the Academy the Small Sided format that is now implemented in England at the youngest ages has been in use for a number of years. We use similar formations at Small Sided but ultimately transition to a more traditional 4-2-3-1/4-3-3/4-4-2 once the boys reach 11v11. Typically from my professional experience (using 8v8 as an example), countries who have been using small sided as a development tool for a number of years play 2-3-2 or 2-4-1 at the youngest ages as ultimately this forces your defenders into a lot of 1v1 defending situations which accelerates development plus the shape is far more conducive to the highest level as when in possession it forces the two centre half to split this bringing the GK into play as an extra player when in possession of the ball. This promotes the development of playing out from the back. Secondly the RM and LM in this shape learn how to become a modern day full back as well as a natural winger due to the responsibilities placed upon this without cover players behind them. All this is done with development in mind. Obviously if we were coaching at youth level to win games then playing 3 at the back gives you a better chance of doing that without losing too much impetus when attacking in the final third. Therefore I wouldn't read too much into what formations they are using at youth level in England, as per normal we are miles behind the rest of the world in terms of youth development as the win is still more important in England at youth level than the individual technical and tactical development of our youngest. Until that mentality changes England will always be behind the rest of the world in terms of producing true world class talent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 3 at the back is fun, I love Juve's set up and Wigan can be very interesting, but if everyone plays 3-4-3 it'll lose a lot of that as suddenly it'll just be mirroring each other Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
morpeth mag Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 3 at the back is fun, I love Juve's set up and Wigan can be very interesting, but if everyone plays 3-4-3 it'll lose a lot of that as suddenly it'll just be mirroring each other But if you play it first then you can get to play it best. Mind you when Villa have tried this formation this season they've been gash. Think its the sort of thing you introduce over the summer or when you are set for a mid table finish Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Surely it will change again in a couple of years, formation trends never last long do they? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now