Pata Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Mike has a point tho. The league is boring for teams like us as we're never going to win the thing and are usually too good to go down. We had an amazing last season yet we weren't any closer to win anything than we were in this horrible season. Last season we were dreaming of a Champions League spot yet what that would've given us? Few great European games and a lot of money which is still pocket change to Man United/City and Chelsea. Something is wrong when well run clubs like Spurs and Everton or even Arsenal are never going to win the league. I can't see playoffs changing much for teams like us as the top teams in the Premier League are much better/richer than the rest when compared to any American sports. Only way to fix this would be some kind of salary or spending cap but it is never going to happen as it would have to be implemented all across Europe. Feel sad after writing that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Swift Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 I completely disagree with this because it ruins the point that every game matters. It means Man Utd can chill all the way through the season and only start playing at the end. I'll be honest, American sports should scrap playoffs. Playoffs are pretty much designed for people with short attention spans. A true connoisseur would enjoy a league season with one winner, and take the cups for what they are - part luck, part form, part talent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 For the last CL place and Europa league? Yeah. For the title? Not a chance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Swift Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Mike has a great point tho. The league is boring for teams like us as we're never going to win the thing and are usually too good to go down. We had an amazing last season yet we weren't any closer to win anything than we were in this horrible season. Last season we were dreaming of a Champions League spot yet what that would've given us? Few great European games and a lot of money which is still pocket change to Man United/City and Chelsea. Something is wrong when well run clubs like Spurs and Everton or even Arsenal are never going to win the league. I can't see playoffs changing much for teams like us as the top teams in the Premier League are much better/richer than the rest when compared to any American sports. Only way to fix this would be some kind of salary or spending cap but it is never going to happen as it would have to be implemented all across Europe. Feel sad after writing that. That has more to do with the financial system of the game rather how the league is set up. You're fixing the wrong problems. Imbalances in the system can be fixed by removing loans, having a more equitable distribution of TV money and maybe, maybe, have a salary cap that every team can reach. The last idea really needs to be Europe wide to be effective so it's pretty much a non-starter. I also think capping wages in terms of turnover is one of the worst ideas out there because you will consolidate the positions of all the big teams today. We could start taking cups seriously for once if we're serious about winning something. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Isn't this what the FA & League cups are for? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Swift Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 For the last CL place and Europa league? Yeah. For the title? Not a chance. Yeah, for the last CL place, I'm actually open to that idea but again, if you're not good enough over 38 games then you're not good enough, period. That will always be my view. Why should you get two extra games to do something you couldn't do after 38. It's not fair, it's not a meritocracy. Edit - we should just give the last CL place to the FA Cup winners. Also unrelated but they should just merge the Europa with the CL or get the CL to subsidise the Europa by increasing the prize money of the Europa. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pata Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 For the last CL place and Europa league? Yeah. For the title? Not a chance. Yeah, for the last CL place, I'm actually open to that idea but again, if you're not good enough over 38 games then you're not good enough, period. That will always be my view. Why should you get two extra games to do something you couldn't do after 38. It's not fair, it's not a meritocracy. Edit - we should just give the last CL place to the FA Cup winners. Also unrelated but they should just merge the Europa with the CL or get the CL to subsidise the Europa by increasing the prize money of the Europa. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 I do feel the prestige of the CL is waning. The best clubs snooze it until the 4th or 5th game if they under perform. Often snooze until February. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 I completely disagree with this because it ruins the point that every game matters. It means Man Utd can chill all the way through the season and only start playing at the end. I'll be honest, American sports should scrap playoffs. Playoffs are pretty much designed for people with short attention spans. A true connoisseur would enjoy a league season with one winner, and take the cups for what they are - part luck, part form, part talent. Fuck off, Pip. Yeah, Manchester United sure do have several HUGE games to look forward to as the season ends. Also, they really had to play hard to win the title. They weren't playing at half speed all year or anything. You say they have 38 important games, I say they had six. That second paragraph is the most pseudo-romantic bullshit you've ever typed. You put white gloves on to type that fucking bullshit. A true connoisseur. How you feel like this and then spout that 2004 and Tom Terrific bullshit is beyond me. You might actually be crazy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 I'd be in favour actually. Top six though, two teams get a bye. Do the same for the last relegation spot too, maybe even the last two. Feel I may have jumped on a sinking ship here like, but it's what I genuinely think. My brother Shak. Top six is still to exclusive a club, imo. Same teams hang out there, but I feel like 8 makes it realistic for most teams in the league to push for it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Swift Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Not saying I don't enjoy the playoffs. Plus baseball and basketball has these teams playing multiple times against each other. Only in the NFL is it one and done. I'm just saying that playoffs are fun because they're random and unpredictable but I honestly prefer a league season to a playoff style. If baseball had no divisions and a balanced schedule but kept all the other CBA stuff then I think it would be fucking awesome. September would be absolutely insane if you have three or four teams challenging. Just think about it. It'd be great. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Not saying I don't enjoy the playoffs. Plus baseball and basketball has these teams playing multiple times against each other. Only in the NFL is it one and done. I'm just saying that playoffs are fun because they're random and unpredictable but I honestly prefer a league season to a playoff style. If baseball had no divisions and a balanced schedule but kept all the other CBA stuff then I think it would be fucking awesome. September would be absolutely insane if you have three or four teams challenging. Just think about it. It'd be great. We don't have multiple teams pushing for the wild card spots now? I mean when your team shit the absolute bed and lost that game to the Orioles, that wasn't great? You don't enjoy the MLB playoffs? Hell, the playoffs are regularly better than the World Series itself. The NFL playoffs are better than the Super Bowl every year. The NBA playoffs are better than the Finals The NHL playoffs are incredible the entire way through. Playoffs makes the competition a true meritocracy. The team that wins is the team that was best that day. You go unbeaten all year? Great, you should win this last game too. Oh you lost? Guess what? You weren't the best team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Swift Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Nah, no playoffs would be better. You must be the best over the course of the season, not for three weeks at the end of the season. I feel especially strong about this re:baseball because the shittest teams still win 40% of the time and the best teams usually don't win more than 65% of the time. There is too much variance day to day. The game itself is not conducive to being evaluated on a day to day basis. It's a long game, six months. If there was a sport that was made for a league season then baseball is it because you play 162 god damn games. Especially now that you have that one game playoff, unbalanced schedules and incomprehensible divisions. I'm not saying I don't enjoy it, I do, but I also know that it's not a meritocracy. I enjoy it for all the other things. The playoffs don't make me enjoy it less because I don't think about these things when it's on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Swift Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 And your point about playoffs being more enjoyable than the finals itself is precisely why having a league season would be great. Imagine the Yankees, Sox and Giants all on 95 wins with one more series to go. Each day would be insane. Just consider the possibility. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 And your point about playoffs being more enjoyable than the finals itself is precisely why having a league season would be great. Imagine the Yankees, Sox and Giants all on 95 wins with one more series to go. Each day would be insane. Just consider the possibility. The possibility that the strength of schedule would determine the champion? So the Sox You mean White Sox I assume. Sox. Fuck you. So the Yanks are playing TB The White Sox are playing goddamn Houston Giants are playing LA. That's more fair than just having the teams competing for the title playing one another in an organized competition where seeding determines strength of schedule rather than a computer ten months ago? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 The Sox. You don't ever stop, man. Respect. The Sox on 95 wins. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Swift Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 13-6 is 110 win pace. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Nah, no playoffs would be better. You must be the best over the course of the season, not for three weeks at the end of the season. I feel especially strong about this re:baseball because the shittest teams still win 40% of the time and the best teams usually don't win more than 65% of the time. There is too much variance day to day. The game itself is not conducive to being evaluated on a day to day basis. It's a long game, six months. If there was a sport that was made for a league season then baseball is it because you play 162 god damn games. Especially now that you have that one game playoff, unbalanced schedules and incomprehensible divisions. I'm not saying I don't enjoy it, I do, but I also know that it's not a meritocracy. I enjoy it for all the other things. The playoffs don't make me enjoy it less because I don't think about these things when it's on. The baseball season is an absolute mess because teams get to play Houston over a dozen times, but if you don't belong in the playoffs, you won't be there long. It corrects itself. The team in 8th won't make noise if they can't make noise. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 13-6 is 110 win pace. This motherfucker! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
afar Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 I hate playoffs in all UK sports where, everyone plays everyone else home and away and equal number of times. Playoffs make sense in american spots such as the NFL, where the 32 teams play 16 games in the regular season, obviously there is no way to determine who is the strongest team as their records are determined by their schedules. Even in baseball's ridiculous 100 plus game season, all teams do not share the same strength of schedule. When everyone plays everyone else once at home and once away, then the team coming out on top of the table is clearly the best team in the league and deserves the title. For an example of the ridiculousness of a playoff system look no further than the Newcastle Falcons (that a rugby team for Mike ) Who have finished top of the "championship" by 25 points, winning all but their last game of the season, but now have to face a playoff to determine if they get promoted back to the premiership, the whole season will be a write off if they don't win the next couple of games. Stupid really they proved to be the best team over the course of a long hard season now a bad refereeing decision or some tough luck could send a vastly inferior team up in their place. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Swift Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Hear hear Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Playoffs makes the competition a true meritocracy. The team that wins is the team that was best that day. You go unbeaten all year? Great, you should win this last game too. Oh you lost? Guess what? You weren't the best team. How do playoffs make it more of a meritocracy, if one team has a much better record over 38 games but comes off second best in the 39th? The ultimate test of ability is a season and not a single game. The FL has a playoff system to increase competitiveness of the league, but it is at the cost of some meritocracy, all the teams know the deal at the start of the season and even then the top 2/3 are promoted directly. A CL/Europa playoff could make things very interesting, but it still depends on where the 'break points' in the league are. Larger point gaps are more likely over a longer season, there is nothing to say 5th and 6th could be wrapped up and as they are both in a playoff game already with nothing else to play for but interchanging league position. It's a trade off and playoffs undoubtably make for thrilling viewing when the big prizes are at stake, but they shouldn't be deciding the ultimate champions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 I hate playoffs in all UK sports where, everyone plays everyone else home and away and equal number of times. Playoffs make sense in american spots such as the NFL, where the 32 teams play 16 games in the regular season, obviously there is no way to determine who is the strongest team as their records are determined by their schedules. Even in baseball's ridiculous 100 plus game season, all teams do not share the same strength of schedule. When everyone plays everyone else once at home and once away, then the team coming out on top of the table is clearly the best team in the league and deserves the title. For an example of the ridiculousness of a playoff system look no further than the Newcastle Falcons (that a rugby team for Mike ) Who have finished top of the "championship" by 25 points, winning all but their last game of the season, but now have to face a playoff to determine if they get promoted back to the premiership, the whole season will be a write off if they don't win the next couple of games. Stupid really they proved to be the best team over the course of a long hard season now a bad refereeing decision or some tough luck could send a vastly inferior team up in their place. My argument is that the EPL schedule is just as unbalanced as any American season. Everyone plays home and away, but most teams go into games with title contenders looking to not lose. Scheduled matches are very rarely head to head encounters. If Reading is playing Manchester United, they're actually fighting a proxy war with QPR. "Let's draw and hope they lose vs XXX!" Let's pretend Newcastle was a good team for a second. We play the same 36 games as everyone else, plus two massive games vs Sunderland. We see a Sunderland that our (hypothetical) direct competitors never see. If we don't win those games we don't deserve whatever we're chasing, but it's not accurate that every team plays the same season. Combine that with the organization of fixtures. (Team A plays the teams in the top 5 in the same month while Team B plays the Top five teams over three months, with minnows sprinkled in between. Does one team have an advantage over another?) If you're not a relegation fearing team and you're not pushing for Europe, you're pretty much not in the league. You're playing for nothing. Like most teams we'll never spend the money to crack the top 4 and we don't have the quality required to get there on merit. So what the hell are we doing? (It's difficult for me to make a comparison of the other derby matches, since I can't really name them. But it seems as if the other major derbies in the EPL are between teams of relatively comparable quality. At least this season.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuce Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Hear hear Get outta here Pip. You're in the doghouse right now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuce Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Shut up seemed harsh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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