Alan Pardew

[Beren]

I think that is the truth underlying everything in football at the moment - how hard (or for Ashley, read 'expensive') it is to realistically improve to the level of Liverpool and Spurs etc.

 

I do think we sometimes play as less than the sum of our parts though, but whether that translates into many extra league positions is hard to say.

 

It wouldn't cost a lot to hire a good football manager who isn't in the job on a depressingly long deal because he's his mate. That would translate into extra league positions very cheaply.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I think that is the truth underlying everything in football at the moment - how hard (or for Ashley, read 'expensive') it is to realistically improve to the level of Liverpool and Spurs etc.

 

I do think we sometimes play as less than the sum of our parts though, but whether that translates into many extra league positions is hard to say.

 

It wouldn't cost a lot to hire a good football manager who isn't in the job on a depressingly long deal because he's his mate. That would translate into extra league positions very cheaply.

 

Well that's the whole debate isn't it? Who would we get, how much would it cost, how much would the improvement really be?

[Beren]

I don't really have a desire to get trapped in the cyclical vortex that is this thread, so I'll just say that there's no debate for me.

 

Importantly, there's not enough will from on high to want the club to push on so it's all a bit moot. There may be desperation from on high in a few weeks time, perhaps.

[Wullie]

I think that is the truth underlying everything in football at the moment - how hard (or for Ashley, read 'expensive') it is to realistically improve to the level of Liverpool and Spurs etc.

 

I do think we sometimes play as less than the sum of our parts though, but whether that translates into many extra league positions is hard to say.

 

It wouldn't cost a lot to hire a good football manager who isn't in the job on a depressingly long deal because he's his mate. That would translate into extra league positions very cheaply.

 

Well that's the whole debate isn't it? Who would we get, how much would it cost, how much would the improvement really be?

 

Finding a manager equipped to bring us long term success is what we should demand, but not expect from the toad in charge. That's quite a difficult thing to do, as it should be in top level sport.

 

Finding a better manager than Alan Pardew? The man was still on the way down to his natural level after being sacked by Saints. You could literally put a pin in the Championship table and come up trumps if that's all you're after. It would be so so easy.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Finding a manager equipped to bring us long term success is what we should demand, but not expect from the toad in charge. That's quite a difficult thing to do, as it should be in top level sport.

 

Finding a better manager than Alan Pardew? The man was still on the way down to his natural level after being sacked by Saints. You could literally put a pin in the Championship table and come up trumps if that's all you're after. It would be so so easy.

 

If that's your view of his level then aye, it's hard to argue against that point of view. If you think any randomly-selected manager would be better than I guess you can't lose.

[Happy Face]

It's a simplistic view.

 

Half the battle for a Newcastle manager is saying the right things publicly.  We often hate to hear it, but someone like Keegan could not keep the powder keg of a power struggle at bay with Kinnear and Ashley or ensure Ashley isn't irked by financial demands being made on him.

 

Call Pardew a spineless, slimy, yes-man, but he does what's required to keep the non-football machinations at bay.

 

On the pitch he's had his failings, and will have more, but there's 8 clubs below us that have had more transfer funds than Pardew has.

[Beren]

On the pitch he's had his failings, and will have more, but there's 8 clubs below us that have had more transfer funds than Pardew has.

 

That doesn't, I take it, factor in the inherited value of their respective squads? Or, more relevantly, their current market value?

[Happy Face]

On the pitch he's had his failings, and will have more, but there's 8 clubs below us that have had more transfer funds than Pardew has.

 

That doesn't, I take it, factor in the inherited value of their respective squads? Or, more relevantly, their current market value?

 

Of course. We should expect to be above them because of that.  But how many clubs above us have a less valuable squad? 

 

Just Hull and Southampton?

[Lotus]

On the pitch he's had his failings, and will have more, but there's 8 clubs below us that have had more transfer funds than Pardew has.

 

That doesn't, I take it, factor in the inherited value of their respective squads? Or, more relevantly, their current market value?

 

Of course. We should expect to be above them because of that.  But how many clubs above us have a less valuable squad? 

 

Just Hull and Southampton?

 

Genuine question; in your view, is Graham Carr a help or a hindrance to Alan Pardew?

[Beren]

Aston Villa too, I would think.

 

There were roughly eight teams at the end of last season (a bigger/better sample period than 7 games).

[madras]

I'd rather die of thirst than drink from the cup of mediocrity.

you drink from the cup of mediocrity whilst awaiting the chance to quench yourself from the chalice of glory.

[BrettNUFC]

Without Carr, Pardew would have been sacked by now, massive help to him. The standard of players is what is keeping Pardew in the job, people like Remy doing the business for him and picking up the points.

[Happy Face]

On the pitch he's had his failings, and will have more, but there's 8 clubs below us that have had more transfer funds than Pardew has.

 

That doesn't, I take it, factor in the inherited value of their respective squads? Or, more relevantly, their current market value?

 

Of course. We should expect to be above them because of that.  But how many clubs above us have a less valuable squad? 

 

Just Hull and Southampton?

 

Genuine question; in your view, is Graham Carr a help or a hindrance to Alan Pardew?

 

I think Graeme Carr's brilliance has been over-hyped. 

 

A few of his signings have grown in value, but none more than the likes of Michu or Benteke.  Have any of his signings been consistent enough?  Have any other clubs come in with breathtaking offers for them?  Cabaye attracted some interest to be a bench warmer at Arsenal.

 

No doubt though, he has identified players good enough for this league at prices lower than other clubs have been going out and spending, which I think Pardew should be very grateful for.

[buzza]

Depends on your perspective; is Carr bringing in only value for money players, do these fit with Pardew's outlined needs ...insert argument about brit cloggers against technical frenchies etc..etc.. (do we know this is true? or are these are own suppositions)

My own opinion is that Carr is in the middle, he brings in players that perhaps aren't exactly what Percy wants but that 110% definitely fit with ashley's business model.

At the end of the day Ashley pays Carr's wages. we all know Ashley wants to bring Unknowns/end of contract/conflcitive geniuses to Newcastle that all have great potential sell on values. His end game isn't Percy's end game...

I do feel a little for Pardew, he will probably ask for an exact player type and will receive something similar but not always what he was looking for. This could be harder than we think to make them gel/fit into his team or his philosophies (see Marveaux).

[Happy Face]

people like Remy doing the business for him and picking up the points.

 

http://news.images.itv.com/image/file/223899/article_df45f78049d4446e_1372162130_9j-4aaqsk.jpeg

[Wullie]

On the pitch he's had his failings, and will have more, but there's 8 clubs below us that have had more transfer funds than Pardew has.

 

That doesn't, I take it, factor in the inherited value of their respective squads? Or, more relevantly, their current market value?

 

Of course. We should expect to be above them because of that.  But how many clubs above us have a less valuable squad? 

 

Just Hull and Southampton?

 

Genuine question; in your view, is Graham Carr a help or a hindrance to Alan Pardew?

 

I think Graeme Carr's brilliance has been over-hyped. 

 

A few of his signings have grown in value, but none more than the likes of Michu or Benteke.  Have any of his signings been consistent enough?  Have any other clubs come in with breathtaking offers for them?  Cabaye attracted some interest to be a bench warmer at Arsenal.

 

No doubt though, he has identified players good enough for this league at prices lower than other clubs have been going out and spending, which I think Pardew should be very grateful for.

 

Pardew makes players worse. Very unfair to point the finger at Carr for buying players with extremely good pedigree that the manager is then unable to get the best out of.

[BrettNUFC]

On the pitch he's had his failings, and will have more, but there's 8 clubs below us that have had more transfer funds than Pardew has.

 

That doesn't, I take it, factor in the inherited value of their respective squads? Or, more relevantly, their current market value?

 

Of course. We should expect to be above them because of that.  But how many clubs above us have a less valuable squad? 

 

Just Hull and Southampton?

 

Genuine question; in your view, is Graham Carr a help or a hindrance to Alan Pardew?

 

I think Graeme Carr's brilliance has been over-hyped. 

 

A few of his signings have grown in value, but none more than the likes of Michu or Benteke.  Have any of his signings been consistent enough?  Have any other clubs come in with breathtaking offers for them?  Cabaye attracted some interest to be a bench warmer at Arsenal.

 

No doubt though, he has identified players good enough for this league at prices lower than other clubs have been going out and spending, which I think Pardew should be very grateful for.

 

Pardew makes players worse. Very unfair to point the finger at Carr for buying players with extremely good pedigree that the manager is then unable to get the best out of.

 

[Happy Face]

On the pitch he's had his failings, and will have more, but there's 8 clubs below us that have had more transfer funds than Pardew has.

 

That doesn't, I take it, factor in the inherited value of their respective squads? Or, more relevantly, their current market value?

 

Of course. We should expect to be above them because of that.  But how many clubs above us have a less valuable squad? 

 

Just Hull and Southampton?

 

Genuine question; in your view, is Graham Carr a help or a hindrance to Alan Pardew?

 

I think Graeme Carr's brilliance has been over-hyped. 

 

A few of his signings have grown in value, but none more than the likes of Michu or Benteke.  Have any of his signings been consistent enough?  Have any other clubs come in with breathtaking offers for them?  Cabaye attracted some interest to be a bench warmer at Arsenal.

 

No doubt though, he has identified players good enough for this league at prices lower than other clubs have been going out and spending, which I think Pardew should be very grateful for.

 

Pardew makes players worse. Very unfair to point the finger at Carr for buying players with extremely good pedigree that the manager is then unable to get the best out of.

 

Thought he got more out of Ba for us than Mourinho has done at Chelsea.

 

 

[Wullie]

On the pitch he's had his failings, and will have more, but there's 8 clubs below us that have had more transfer funds than Pardew has.

 

That doesn't, I take it, factor in the inherited value of their respective squads? Or, more relevantly, their current market value?

 

Of course. We should expect to be above them because of that.  But how many clubs above us have a less valuable squad? 

 

Just Hull and Southampton?

 

Genuine question; in your view, is Graham Carr a help or a hindrance to Alan Pardew?

 

I think Graeme Carr's brilliance has been over-hyped. 

 

A few of his signings have grown in value, but none more than the likes of Michu or Benteke.  Have any of his signings been consistent enough?  Have any other clubs come in with breathtaking offers for them?  Cabaye attracted some interest to be a bench warmer at Arsenal.

No doubt though, he has identified players good enough for this league at prices lower than other clubs have been going out and spending, which I think Pardew should be very grateful for.

 

If only there was some senior figure, in charge of and accountable for the playing staff. Whose remit it would be to get the very best out of the players at his disposal in exchange for handsome remuneration.

 

[buzza]

On the pitch he's had his failings, and will have more, but there's 8 clubs below us that have had more transfer funds than Pardew has.

 

That doesn't, I take it, factor in the inherited value of their respective squads? Or, more relevantly, their current market value?

 

Of course. We should expect to be above them because of that.  But how many clubs above us have a less valuable squad? 

 

Just Hull and Southampton?

 

Genuine question; in your view, is Graham Carr a help or a hindrance to Alan Pardew?

 

I think Graeme Carr's brilliance has been over-hyped. 

 

A few of his signings have grown in value, but none more than the likes of Michu or Benteke.  Have any of his signings been consistent enough?  Have any other clubs come in with breathtaking offers for them?  Cabaye attracted some interest to be a bench warmer at Arsenal.

No doubt though, he has identified players good enough for this league at prices lower than other clubs have been going out and spending, which I think Pardew should be very grateful for.

 

If only there was some senior figure, in charge of and accountable for the playing staff. Whose remit it would be to get the very best out of the players at his disposal in exchange for handsome remuneration.

The players and manager will all be on bonuses for league placement I would imagine. Although any player who earns 2 or 3 million a year will probably not be bothered about a win bonus shared between 25 players...

[Lotus]

On the pitch he's had his failings, and will have more, but there's 8 clubs below us that have had more transfer funds than Pardew has.

 

That doesn't, I take it, factor in the inherited value of their respective squads? Or, more relevantly, their current market value?

 

Of course. We should expect to be above them because of that.  But how many clubs above us have a less valuable squad? 

 

Just Hull and Southampton?

 

Genuine question; in your view, is Graham Carr a help or a hindrance to Alan Pardew?

 

I think Graeme Carr's brilliance has been over-hyped. 

 

A few of his signings have grown in value, but none more than the likes of Michu or Benteke.  Have any of his signings been consistent enough?  Have any other clubs come in with breathtaking offers for them?  Cabaye attracted some interest to be a bench warmer at Arsenal.

 

No doubt though, he has identified players good enough for this league at prices lower than other clubs have been going out and spending, which I think Pardew should be very grateful for.

 

In terms of value i think it is quite a balanced arguement.

 

Cabaye is good value

 

Does Anita look good value? (think he may go on to but he isn't yet, £6.7M for a guy we've barely played)

 

Santon looks ok value wise

 

Does Debuchey look good value?

 

HBA was good value

 

Does Cisse look good value?

 

Tiote looked good value, now though?

 

MYM, may well go on to be good value, at the moment, not quite the CB we needed.

 

Just a few examples.

 

I think my point was more along the lines of, does Graham Carr identify players that Pardew can use the way he wants to? It's seems quite clear that the players the club is buying don't really fit in with the way Pardew wants us to play. I know some may say that's a good thing but in truth it never can be.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Depends on your perspective; is Carr bringing in only value for money players, do these fit with Pardew's outlined needs ...insert argument about brit cloggers against technical frenchies etc..etc.. (do we know this is true? or are these are own suppositions)

My own opinion is that Carr is in the middle, he brings in players that perhaps aren't exactly what Percy wants but that 110% definitely fit with ashley's business model.

At the end of the day Ashley pays Carr's wages. we all know Ashley wants to bring Unknowns/end of contract/conflcitive geniuses to Newcastle that all have great potential sell on values. His end game isn't Percy's end game...

I do feel a little for Pardew, he will probably ask for an exact player type and will receive something similar but not always what he was looking for. This could be harder than we think to make them gel/fit into his team or his philosophies (see Marveaux).

 

To be honest, Pardew is being given quality players and (because he has agreed to work under Ashley's restrictions) he needs to just adapt and get the best out of them.

[BottledDog]

Finding a manager equipped to bring us long term success is what we should demand, but not expect from the toad in charge. That's quite a difficult thing to do, as it should be in top level sport.

 

Finding a better manager than Alan Pardew? The man was still on the way down to his natural level after being sacked by Saints. You could literally put a pin in the Championship table and come up trumps if that's all you're after. It would be so so easy.

 

If that's your view of his level then aye, it's hard to argue against that point of view. If you think any randomly-selected manager would be better than I guess you can't lose.

 

I don't like his off the pitch negativity or his occasional cowardice on it and I'd be delighted to see someone better come in and single handedly drag us up to the top table, though question just how realistic that is. I certainly find it difficult to agree that Pardew is worse than shit and almost anyone is an automatic upgrade.

 

He's proved he's good enough to keep the players happy, get us top 8 without much backing, and may even be even capable of getting himself to another cup final. That's not the worst I've seen from a manager for us, and he has this season to prove that last season was an aberration. If he can't do that, he's gone,  and he should be gone by the new year if we are near the bottom and out of the cups. I can't imagine even Ashley's patience would last longer than that, never mind the rest of us.

 

That said, whatever he does, the state of this thread will not improve. It'll drag on and on in a death spiral until the fucker is binned and the next poor sap takes over.

 

Rinse and repeat.

[Happy Face]

I think my point was more along the lines of, does Graham Carr identify players that Pardew can use the way he wants to? It's seems quite clear that the players the club is buying don't really fit in with the way Pardew wants us to play. I know some may say that's a good thing but in truth it never can be.

 

There is no correlation whatsoever between the needs of the team/squad and the players we buy.  it's just not part of the criteria that we would go and chase strikers and pay an extra million or two to make sure we had the position covered.

 

But Pardew knew that when he took the job and has never once complained about it.

[Happy Face]

Interested to hear examples of players that Pardew has ruined?